Koakuma's Writer's Parlour ~ Have some tea and discuss fiction and writing here!

[Sect]

You can easily do dialogue without saing "he said" or even anything at all, but there does need to be a clear indicator of who's talking: if you do a paragraph where it's only dialogue, the next line should have an indicator of who's talking.

I'm going to use an example from the book "Mass Effect: Ascension" by Drew Karpyshyn (page 116).

"When will he come to see me?"

"Soon," Kahlee promised. "I'll tell him you're waiting."

Gillian smiled. "You like Hendel."

"He's a good friend."

The girl's smile broadened even further. "Will you two get married some day?"

Kahlee laughed in spite of herself. "I don't think Hendel wants to get married."

Gillian's smile slipped, but didn't disappear completely. "He should marry you," she insisted, matter-of-factly. "You're nice."

The dialogue was easy to follow, even though there were lines where no speaker was indicated, and the word "said" wasn't used at all. You can easily get a feel for how each character was speaking or the tones they were using by the descriptors used.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

I've actually read a couple of places that "said" is generally the best bet from the reader's perspective, since it really isn't all that noticeable. Yes, you-the-author might notice it, but the readers really won't. If you can combine it with other actions, so much the better.

You can also do away with it by combining it with an action, like this quote from a random page of Feet of Clay by Terry Pratchett:

The Patrician stirred, and looked at Cheery through watery red eyes. "Tell me, young man, are you a policeman?"

But in general, "said" is preferable.

[capt. h]

I went back to practice some Imperishable Night spellcards.

If you've read anything of mine, then it should be obviously that Mokou is my favorite character. But I like canon (in game, not SSiB or PMiSS) Mokou a lot better than most interpretations.

By that I mean, not angry, not a tsundere, not in love with Keine, Kaguya, or Mystia, not angsty, and not psychotic; just a normal, pleasant person who happens to be immortal and chills even in a battle against Yukari.

I've never seen that interpretation. Not once, in any story. Any thoughts on where I might find it?

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Well, since PMiSS is supposed to be canon (regardless of what you think of SSiB) ... well, I'm not sure what to tell you, really.

[Bias Bus]

I wouldn't know. Most of the stories I've read have Mokou characterized as one of those things (usually the token, angry loner), as it seems to be generally accepted among writers and fans that Mokou is an angry butch. I remember reading on Pooshlmer of a Mokou Bad End story (from Touhoh Love Stories: The Bad Ends), that didn't really follow this route for Mokou and, from what I remember is the closest I can think of that fits this 'chill!Mokou' you mentioned. Even if she did hold this constant distance from the MC.

[Forte Blackadder]

By that I mean, not angry, not a tsundere, not in love with Keine, Kaguya, or Mystia, not angsty, and not psychotic; just a normal, pleasant person who happens to be immortal and chills even in a battle against Yukari.

I've never seen that interpretation. Not once, in any story. Any thoughts on where I might find it?

In mine. Just that I didn't write it in English.
 I'd say she is more or less a girl that lost care in the world. She lives without any trouble or serious feelings, much like a college high school that already had a job. I like writing Mokou as a "cool" friend to everyone. In the fic she long forgot about loneliness, hatred and other negative feelings, and she treats Kaguya as someone she can most openedly talk to (It's funny to talk in buddy manner where shit language involved to a princess, you know?). Of course sometimes they fight over trivial things, but after rip other's heads off they laugh and go back to Eientei to have a tea.

[capt. h]

When I asked, I might not have been thinking totally straight about characterization (it was 2 AM when I posted). The thing is that a picture is worth a thousand words, and her profile picture has a dissonance with her common interpretations.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/thumb/3/3e/Mokou.png/200px-Mokou.png

Regardless of previous angst, anger, etc. it looks to me that Mokou is supposed to be a "chill" character. Any stories that follow that route?

In mine. Just that I didn't write it in English.
 I'd say she is more or less a girl that lost care in the world. She lives without any trouble or serious feelings, much like a college high school that already had a job. I like writing Mokou as a "cool" friend to everyone. In the fic she long forgot about loneliness, hatred and other negative feelings, and she treats Kaguya as someone she can most openedly talk to (It's funny to talk in buddy manner where shit language involved to a princess, you know?). Of course sometimes they fight over trivial things, but after rip other's heads off they laugh and go back to Eientei to have a tea.

Well that's a pity. I can't read non-English. If you know where I could find a mediocre translator (google doesn't seem to like Japanese) and provided a link, I'd read it.

EDIT: I don't think I'd ever stick to one interpretation of any character I find interesting like that. At the very least, the one interpretation would have to be insanely deep. I'd want to write psycho Flandre and innocent little girl Flandre, psycho Mokou and cool-headed Mokou, evil manipulator Satori and pitiable, hated Satori, air-headed Okuu and mad genius of nuclear fusion Utsuho, etc. Half the fun is writing all the interpretations at the same time. Though Mokou especially has a baggage issue - stories usually pertain to interactions with others and the character's activities (which makes Patchouli stories rare since she never leaves the library), and Mokou especially is defined only through her quest for vengeance against/battles with/mild irritation towards Kaguya and her suspiciously close/incredibly exaggerated friendship with Keine.

[Ryuu]

don't use the wikia wiki


use this

[Bias Bus]

Patchouli stories rare since she never leaves the library.

You can have characters come to her, that's what I did with a (cancelled) Patchouli story I was writing and it looked okay with me (granted the main cast consisted only of Patchy, Koakuma, and Belial a demon summoned to guard the deepest reaches of the library). You're main focus doens't have to go anywhere to interact with people, especially if there are people who live close by with them.

[Forte Blackadder]

Well that's a pity. I can't read non-English. If you know where I could find a mediocre translator (google doesn't seem to like Japanese) and provided a link, I'd read it.

That fic was in Vietnamese so you'll probably never read it. I used a lot of Vietnamese ref in there so don't wanna translate it either But I'll think about writing another one.

Patchouli stories rare since she never leaves the library.

True, but it doesn't mean she won't have interesting stories to share An idea just popped up in my head...

Another peaceful day... I'm sitting on my chair reading a book, as usual. Koakuma is rearranging the books somewhere, but still managed to pour me a delicious cup of tea. Everyone said I'm a shut-in, but well, I don't care. Reading books is fun, just flip a page and everything will appear in my hands. History, Science, Myths, even stories that most people don't know about.

I'm the type that can't stop reading, and try to find out everything possible from a single sentence. And I love to dream of myself being in the book's world. Of course, sometimes I read a book that doesn't quite fit my taste, but I keep reading anyway. Like right now, I'm holding the "Famous Haunted Stories Collection". Heh, people outside is still scared of ghosts. What is this, Robert the Doll? He's clearly possessed by some youkai, and people made such a fuss. Also, I think I saw a big doll in the storage too. Remi said she's too old for it and Flan will just break it anyway. Haha, maybe after the years it will be lonely and become alive too. Just think about it, the doll will slowly stand up in the dark, sneakily open the storage's door, walk out the hallway to find his "master". Remilia wouldn't like that haha.

As if it can be true, idiot. This is the Scarlet Devil Mansion, no soul can be that foolish to haunted us...

"Click."

Hm?

Silence. Did I imagine it?

"Click."

"Koakuma?"

No respond. Strange, she should answer me. The silence covers the huge, candle-lit library. My ears start to hear the constant "u-u-" sound.

"Koakuma, come here."

Maybe she went upstairs to fix my supper? Anyway, what am I scaring about? Stupid head, stop thinking about those haunted stuffs.

"Click."

"WHO?"

I made a small fire ball, ready to shoot it a wherever that sound came from.

Silence... Bu I can vaguely feel it... there is SOMETHING walked into the library.

... something like that Nothing is impossible if you have a good imagination.

[capt. h]

That fic was in Vietnamese so you'll probably never read it. I used a lot of Vietnamese ref in there so don't wanna translate it either But I'll think about writing another one.True, but it doesn't mean she won't have interesting stories to share An idea just popped up in my head...
... something like that Nothing is impossible if you have a good imagination.

I mentioned Patchouli off-hand because she's a character who, under normal circumstances, should have more material devoted to her, not because of any difficulty in writing the actual story. She's near the top of the popularity polls. Being a fan of Patchy, I kind of wish there was more to read about her, but since she's always in the library she's not a very common main character.

Back to the point about Mokou being a cool-headed character, check out the GoM picture for her; it's insane.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:GoMIllus-Mokou.jpg

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Please continue to use en.touhouwiki.net, NOT Wikia. Here's the link.

[capt. h]

Please continue to use en.touhouwiki.net, NOT Wikia. Here's the link.

I would if I could, but you just linked me to a 403 error.

[Iced Fairy]

Yeah, they're moving things around.  This is the correct one.

Still change your bookmarks.  That old wiki is becoming more and more out of date every day.

[Romantique Tp]

1. Copy link
2. Paste link

[capt. h]

Yeah, they're moving things around.  This is the correct one.

Still change your bookmarks.  That old wiki is becoming more and more out of date every day.

That link is also returning a 403 error. EDIT: And the link from my previous post, which was working a few days ago, is now returning a 403 error. It doesn't appear possible to link to images on touhouwiki.net at this time.

[MayKissingDoveWyks]

I've never seen that interpretation. Not once, in any story. Any thoughts on where I might find it?

I can't tell if my interpretation of her in my main story lives up to that one....




checked, I went with the angst... (I couldn't really resist using it. It seemed to fit the current situation at the time)

The second encounter caused her to be a little more sociable... but not by much...
EDIT: Checked the second encounter and she was more helpful.

[Alfred F. Jones]

That link is also returning a 403 error. EDIT: And the link from my previous post, which was working a few days ago, is now returning a 403 error. It doesn't appear possible to link to images on touhouwiki.net at this time.

Can't replicate it, sorry. Those links both work fine to me.

Try this one? http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/3/3e/Mokou.png

[capt. h]

Can't replicate it, sorry. Those links both work fine to me.

Try this one? http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/3/3e/Mokou.png

That's not working either. Not in Firefox or Internet Explorer on a Windows 7 computer. I'd report it, but I really don't know who to report it to.

If you're using a different browser or a Mac, that could be it, but otherwise there is something very wrong with the links to the images on touhouwiki.net.

It's a 403 error, and it says I don't have permission to access it on this server. But I shouldn't need permission to access publically available files.

[Conqueror]

The image sometimes doesn't show when I follow the link directly or hotlink the image, but if I copy and paste or refresh the page a few times the image usually shows up. Server stress?

[MayKissingDoveWyks]

More like linking issues, the danbooru-kind...

[Conqueror]

That's probably it then.

[capt. h]

Try refreshing the page once you click on the link. As in, click on the address bar and press enter (F5 doesn't do it).

That works. It's definitely not working correctly if I have to do that, and I'd report it if I knew where, but that solution works for the meantime.

Anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words, and this picture from GoM along with her IN profile picture made me realize that Mokou is a surprisingly relaxed character. Definitely not a social one, but insanely relaxed in battle. Do we have any stories to match that interpretation?

[chloe]

I have been notified of this issue, and will be working to resolve this.

EDIT: The issue has been resolved. Thank you for your patience. =)

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Hooray!

[capt. h]

Good, images are back up.

I always follow several rules whenever I work on anything.

1. Never introduce original characters.

 If an original character is introduced, it is to support the main character's story while remaining unimportant and possibly nameless.

(EDIT: this rule is for fanfics ONLY, not original works. This is because I'm only interested in fanfics for the characters from the original works, and much like I have no interest in the original characters of others when looking for works about Yuuka,  I don't expect anyone to have an interest in my original characters.) 

2. Never use the spell card rules in a confrontation.

Nobody, especially me, wants to read about pretty spellcard patterns that they can't see. They probably want to read about how a manipulator of fate uses her skill to take out a creator of history, or about how an immortal uses her inability to die to counter someone who can break anything with a flick of the wrist. I can't justify writing the PG visually (if there were visuals in writing) flashy version, nor am I interested in it. I am curious though about what would happen if the touhou abilities were let fully loose, as that question is unresolved. So I always ignore the spellcard rules to get the matchups I have an interest in.

I have other rules as well, but those are my top two.



What rules do you guys follow when writing?

[Ryuu]

What rules do you guys follow when writing?

I don't assume that things that apply to me apply to everyone and make sweeping generalizations

I don't assume that what I'm interested in is what everyone is interested in

I don't assume that people are even interested in what I'm interested in

I don't talk about my methodology like it's truth

[Unassuming Squid]

1. Never introduce original characters.

This seems to be contradicted by

If an original character is introduced, it is to support the main character's story while remaining unimportant and possibly nameless.

Additionally,

2. Never use the spell card rules in a confrontation.

Nobody, especially me, wants to read about pretty spellcard patterns that they can't see. They probably want to read about how a manipulator of fate uses her skill to take out a creator of history, or about how an immortal uses her inability to die to counter someone who can break anything with a flick of the wrist. I can't justify writing the PG visually (if there were visuals in writing) flashy version, nor am I interested in it. I am curious though about what would happen if the touhou abilities were let fully loose, as that question is unresolved. So I always ignore the spellcard rules to get the matchups I have an interest in.

is a ridiculous rule. For one thing, spellcards are one of the foundations of Touhou in general. They were created by Reimu to lower the mortality rate of Gensokyo and create something resembling a balance between humans and youkai. Remove spellcards and you remove a good chunk of the beauty and attractiveness of Touhou.

If you have trouble describing spellcards, practice. Describe simple ones like Heaven and Hell Meltdown, or Mercury Poison, or Moonlight Ray. Then work your way up to more complicated ones. But don't just remove them altogether.

As for my own rules, I find that everything is taken care of if I make a concerted effort to become the character(s) I'm writing about. Like method acting, but with multiple characters. It's not easy, but the results are apparently acceptable.

[capt. h]

They were created by Reimu to lower the mortality rate of Gensokyo and create something resembling a balance between humans and youkai.

That's exactly why I never use spell card rules. Sky high mortality rates where the only resolution lies in the power to alter reality at will, where the balance of power is lost and the country is in chaos, sounds amazing.

[MaxKnight]

What rules do you guys follow when writing?

1. Only write what I would like to read.
2. Don't think too hard about it; just flow with the ideas.
3. When actually writing chapters, don't second guess myself as I write; if I write it one way, leave it that way.
4. It pays to proofread at least three times; I never seem to get everything with only one or two times.
5. Make it fun; writing needs to be as entertaining to me as it is to those I'm writing for.

Yeah, that about sums up the major ones.  OC focus is bothersome, but not completely bad, and I personally love reading written descriptions of danmaku and spell cards, and am trying to learn how to do the same myself.