Labyrinth of Touhou 9F

[Serela]

EDIT: Struggled past Reisen and got her drop. Sure is hard when I can't use Marisa or Orin...

Because Reisen is weak to SPI, Vengeful Cannibal Spirit likely woulda actually still been pretty strong on her.

[Pesco]

EDIT: Since I can't find it anywhere, I went and derived the formula to calculate the SKP needed to reach next skill level: floor(floor(1.25x^2+1.25x)*coefficient), where x is the current skill level and coefficient is an independent value for each character's each stat. The eight characters in the first page have the following coefficients (I'll do the rest tomorrow):

Char   HP   SP   TP   ATK   DEF   MAG   MND   SPD   EVA   FIR   CLD   WND   NTR   MYS   SPI
Reimu   1.2   1   55   1   2   1.1   0.95   2   2   4.5   4.5   4.5   4.5   12   3
Marisa   1.8   1   51   2.4   2.2   0.8   1.1   1.5   1   5   5   5   5   3.8   10
Remilia   1.2   1.5   45   0.78   1.1   1.8   1.8   2   2.4   4   4   4   4   10   12
Sakuya   1.04   1.04   40   1.04   1.8   1.04   1.8   2   1.32   6   6   6   6   6   6
Patchy   2.8   0.8   66   3.6   3   0.8   0.8   2.88   2.88   3.8   3.8   3.8   3.8   3.8   3.8
Chen   1.28   0.8   35   0.98   1.4   3   2.4   0.6   0.6   7   7   7   7   5.5   5.5
Meiling   0.88   2.4   35   1   0.9   3   1   2.6   1.4   4.5   4.5   4.5   4.5   4.5   4.5
Cirno   1.2   1.2   40   1.2   1.2   1.2   1.2   1.2   1.2   9   2.8   3.8   3.8   7   7

I don't know how helpful this is, but hey.

I posted the general formula for this in one of the previous threads. The SKP cost relation to a character's stat rating (those numbers on the wiki) is a linear relation. I plotted a graph with the skill level vs cost in Excel and got it to show me the equation.

[Raikaria]

I plan to be doing a marathon run today, because I wanna get past F12 and I don't recall how long that can take from the F12 relay.

I won't be recording this stream due to the length, however.

EDIT: Change of plan we intend to go out so not streaming today, till least after dinner

EDIT 2: Seems the Flandre and Tenshi events are not triggering, but I'm not too fussed about that, but, as an aside, I've beaten Nitori and Sanae's foe.

I've tried Eientei, but I'm finding a big issue.

My team is centric around debuffs... and guess what triggers Buddah's Bowl...

I got wiped out by Kaguya deciding 'You know what, Reisen and Eirin should be killing you too' and using Magic Drain on Renko, before she promptly decided to focus, get a 35k heal from Eirin, then OHKO everyone.

[RegalStar]

Full list of character SKP cost coefficients:

Char   HP   SP   TP   ATK   DEF   MAG   MND   SPD   EVA   FIR   CLD   WND   NTR   MYS   SPI
Reimu   1.2   1   55   1   2   1.1   0.95   2   2   4.5   4.5   4.5   4.5   12   3
Marisa   1.8   1   51   2.4   2.2   0.8   1.1   1.5   1   5   5   5   5   3.8   10
Remilia   1.2   1.5   45   0.78   1.1   1.8   1.8   2   2.4   4   4   4   4   10   12
Sakuya   1.04   1.04   40   1.04   1.8   1.04   1.8   2   1.32   6   6   6   6   6   6
Patchy   2.8   0.8   66   3.6   3   0.8   0.8   2.88   2.88   3.8   3.8   3.8   3.8   3.8   3.8
Chen   1.28   0.8   35   0.98   1.4   3   2.4   0.6   0.6   7   7   7   7   5.5   5.5
Meiling   0.88   2.4   35   1   0.9   3   1   2.6   1.4   4.5   4.5   4.5   4.5   4.5   4.5
Cirno   1.2   1.2   40   1.2   1.2   1.2   1.2   1.2   1.2   9   2.8   3.8   3.8   7   7
Minoriko   1.4   1   45   3   1   1   1   3   3   8   10   3.2   2.8   3.8   3.8
Youmu   0.9   1.2   60   1   1   2.6   3   1.8   2.4   5.5   5.5   5.5   5.5   4   4
Alice   1.2   1   45   1.5   2.3   1   1   2   2   5   5   5   5   5   5
Rumia   2   1.5   40   2   2.3   1.1   1.1   3   1.6   5.5   5.5   5.5   5.5   2.8   10
Wriggle   1.2   1.6   48   1.5   1.5   1.5   1.5   1.5   1.5   9   9   3.8   3.8   5   5
Yuugi   0.9   2   55   0.9   0.9   3   2   2   2   4   8   4   8   4   8
Aya   1.6   1.2   50   0.9   2   1.8   1.6   1.2   1.5   5   5   3   5   7.5   7.5
Iku   1.5   1.5   60   1.8   2   1.2   1   1.8   1.8   5.5   5.5   3   5   5.5   5.5
Komachi   1   2   50   1.1   1.2   2   1.2   2   2   6   6   6   6   4   3
Suwako   1.4   1.2   56   1.1   1.8   1.1   1.32   2   2   7   3   6   3   4.5   4.5
Sanae   2   1   62   3   2.4   1   1.28   1.6   3   4   4   4   4   4   4
Nitori   1.6   1.1   62   1.2   2.4   2   1.12   1.4   0.2   6.5   3   4.2   3   4.5   4.5
Ran   1.36   1.2   40   1.2   1.4   0.9   1.2   1.3   1.4   4.2   4.2   4.2   4.2   7   2.8
Reisen   1.28   1.28   50   2   1.4   1.2   1   1.2   1.2   4   4   5.5   5.5   3   8
Eirin   1.6   1.2   66   2   1.2   1.2   1.2   1.6   3   4.2   4.2   4.2   4.2   4.8   3.8
Tenshi   1   1.4   55   1.14   0.88   1.6   0.98   1.8   3   4.5   4.8   8   2.8   4   3.6
Mokou   1.44   1.44   55   2.4   1.56   1.12   1.44   1.32   1.32   2.8   8.8   7.4   4   4   4
Flandre   0.9   2.2   70   1   2.2   1   2   1.2   1.4   2   12.8   9   9   9   9
Orin   2   1   62   1.1   2.4   1   1.28   1.6   3   4   4   4   4   4   4
Kaguya   2   1   62   3   2.4   1   1.28   1.6   3   4   4   4   4   4   4
Suika   1.4   1.68   62   1   1.68   3   1.28   1.5   3   8   4   4   4   4   8
Yuyuko   2   1   62   3   2.4   1   1.28   1.6   3   4   4   4   4   4   4
Yukari   2   1   62   3   2.4   1   1.28   2.5   3   4   4   4   4   4   4
Rinnosuke   1   1   90   1   1   1   1   1   3   4   4   4   4   4   4
Renko   1.32   1.32   80   1.88   1.5   1.88   1.5   2   3   4   4   4   4   4   4
Maribel   1.4   1.2   72   1.6   1.8   1.2   1.2   2   3   4   4   4   4   4   4
Utsuho   1.5   1.5   75   1.8   1.6   1   1.2   2   3   3   4   4   4   4   4
Kanako   1.4   1.4   80   1.4   1.4   1   1.12   2.4   3   5.5   3   3   3   7   3
Yuuka   1.4   1.4   80   1.4   1.4   1   1.12   2.4   3   5.5   3   3   3   7   3
Mystia   1.68   1.4   60   1.1   1.2   1.4   1.12   2.4   3   5.5   5   3   3   6   5
Keine   1.2   1.2   68   1.1   1.2   2   1.32   2   3   5.5   5.5   5.5   5.5   5.5   5.5
Eiki   1.4   1.8   80   1.1   1.8   1.1   1.28   2.4   3   5.5   5   5   5   6   4

There's a weird error with the 4.2s in Nitori's WND affinity and Ran/Eirin's first four affinities; every 3rd and 4th level (out of 4 level cycle) cost 1 less SKP than my formula gives (for example, raising Nitori's WND affinity from 3 to 4 costs 62 SKP, but my formula says it should cost 63). I'm going to assume that it's due to some kind of rounding error as no other value gives this oddity.

[I have no name]

Code: [Select]

Char HP SP TP ATK DEF MAG MND SPD EVA FIR CLD WND NTR MYS SPI
Reimu 1.2 1 55 1 2 1.1 0.95 2 2 4.5 4.5 4.5 4.5 12 3
Marisa 1.8 1 51 2.4 2.2 0.8 1.1 1.5 1 5 5 5 5 3.8 10
Remilia 1.2 1.5 45 0.78 1.1 1.8 1.8 2 2.4 4 4 4 4 10 12
Sakuya 1.04 1.04 40 1.04 1.8 1.04 1.8 2 1.32 6 6 6 6 6 6
Patchy 2.8 0.8 66 3.6 3 0.8 0.8 2.88 2.88 3.8 3.8 3.8 3.8 3.8 3.8
Chen 1.28 0.8 35 0.98 1.4 3 2.4 0.6 0.6 7 7 7 7 5.5 5.5
Meiling 0.88 2.4 35 1 0.9 3 1 2.6 1.4 4.5 4.5 4.5 4.5 4.5 4.5
Cirno 1.2 1.2 40 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 9 2.8 3.8 3.8 7 7
Minoriko1.4 1 45 3 1 1 1 3 3 8 10 3.2 2.8 3.8 3.8
Youmu 0.9 1.2 60 1 1 2.6 3 1.8 2.4 5.5 5.5 5.5 5.5 4 4
Alice 1.2 1 45 1.5 2.3 1 1 2 2 5 5 5 5 5 5
Rumia 2 1.5 40 2 2.3 1.1 1.1 3 1.6 5.5 5.5 5.5 5.5 2.8 10
Wriggle 1.2 1.6 48 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 9 9 3.8 3.8 5 5
Yuugi 0.9 2 55 0.9 0.9 3 2 2 2 4 8 4 8 4 8
Aya 1.6 1.2 50 0.9 2 1.8 1.6 1.2 1.5 5 5 3 5 7.5 7.5
Iku 1.5 1.5 60 1.8 2 1.2 1 1.8 1.8 5.5 5.5 3 5 5.5 5.5
Komachi 1 2 50 1.1 1.2 2 1.2 2 2 6 6 6 6 4 3
Suwako 1.4 1.2 56 1.1 1.8 1.1 1.32 2 2 7 3 6 3 4.5 4.5
Sanae 2 1 62 3 2.4 1 1.28 1.6 3 4 4 4 4 4 4
Nitori 1.6 1.1 62 1.2 2.4 2 1.12 1.4 0.2 6.5 3 4.2 3 4.5 4.5
Ran 1.36 1.2 40 1.2 1.4 0.9 1.2 1.3 1.4 4.2 4.2 4.2 4.2 7 2.8
Reisen 1.28 1.28 50 2 1.4 1.2 1 1.2 1.2 4 4 5.5 5.5 3 8
Eirin 1.6 1.2 66 2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.6 3 4.2 4.2 4.2 4.2 4.8 3.8
Tenshi 1 1.4 55 1.14 0.88 1.6 0.98 1.8 3 4.5 4.8 8 2.8 4 3.6
Mokou 1.44 1.44 55 2.4 1.56 1.12 1.44 1.32 1.32 2.8 8.8 7.4 4 4 4
Flandre 0.9 2.2 70 1 2.2 1 2 1.2 1.4 2 12.8 9 9 9 9
Orin 2 1 62 1.1 2.4 1 1.28 1.6 3 4 4 4 4 4 4
Kaguya 2 1 62 3 2.4 1 1.28 1.6 3 4 4 4 4 4 4
Suika 1.4 1.68 62 1 1.68 3 1.28 1.5 3 8 4 4 4 4 8
Yuyuko 2 1 62 3 2.4 1 1.28 1.6 3 4 4 4 4 4 4
Yukari 2 1 62 3 2.4 1 1.28 2.5 3 4 4 4 4 4 4
Rinosuke1 1 90 1 1 1 1 1 3 4 4 4 4 4 4
Renko 1.32 1.32 80 1.88 1.5 1.88 1.5 2 3 4 4 4 4 4 4
Maribel 1.4 1.2 72 1.6 1.8 1.2 1.2 2 3 4 4 4 4 4 4
Utsuho 1.5 1.5 75 1.8 1.6 1 1.2 2 3 3 4 4 4 4 4
Kanako 1.4 1.4 80 1.4 1.4 1 1.12 2.4 3 5.5 3 3 3 7 3
Yuuka 1.4 1.4 80 1.4 1.4 1 1.12 2.4 3 5.5 3 3 3 7 3
Mystia 1.68 1.4 60 1.1 1.2 1.4 1.12 2.4 3 5.5 5 3 3 6 5
Keine 1.2 1.2 68 1.1 1.2 2 1.32 2 3 5.5 5.5 5.5 5.5 5.5 5.5
Eiki 1.4 1.8 80 1.1 1.8 1.1 1.28 2.4 3 5.5 5 5 5 6 4

Now in easier to read/parse format!  (widen window size if it doesn't all fit in one line) ("Rinosuke" is the most natural shortening of Rinnosuke to make it fit within one tab)

[Zil]

"Rinosuke" is the most natural shortening of Rinnosuke to make it fit within one tab

You mean MANosuke, right?

That's pretty interesting though, especially how it doesn't always sync up with the default growth rate / starting value. And look how easy it is to boost Remi's attack, while most of the heavy hitters have a 1 there.

[Raikaria]

You mean MANosuke, right?

That's pretty interesting though, especially how it doesn't always sync up with the default growth rate / starting value. And look how easy it is to boost Remi's attack, while most of the heavy hitters have a 1 there.

Remilia actually has one of the highest attack growths in the game, the 2nd best.

Although her SP requirements being the lowest is probobly because of her level-up rate dampening her stat growths somewhat.

On another note, I'm going to be running a parallel game, using things I've not tried fully before. The main thing I want to see is how effective I can make MAG Yukari, using Shikigami+. Of course this means using Ran and Chen.

Other things I want to give a proper run with include:

MAG/SPD Sanae
Main Tank Eirin [Abusing her ability to selfheal with Hourai Elixir, excellent elemental resists, and her naturally high HP stat. I'm thinking a self-sustaining Komachi with actual defense stats]
Mokou [Never used her]
Sakuya [I always go with Aya for speedbuffing. Always.]

[Serela]

MAG/SPD Sanae
Main Tank Eirin [Abusing her ability to selfheal with Hourai Elixir, excellent elemental resists, and her naturally high HP stat. I'm thinking a self-sustaining Komachi with actual defense stats]
Mokou [Never used her]
Sakuya [I always go with Aya for speedbuffing. Always.]

MAG Sanae should be able to roughly fullheal most characters (Not the major HP ones like Meiling), and does okay random battle damage. But, really, MND with a magic buff on her for her heal works out better so she can take hits (also makes it possible for her to maybe use some miracle fruits)

I always find it impossible to not compare her to the faster, cheaper, stronger-healing, tankier Minoriko though, because you generally should not need the status/debuff cure on Sanae's Heal, and Miracle Fruits is bad since it's slow when considering there's faaar easier ways to buff up people's stats.

Mokou is okay, but underwhelming. Neither of her defensive stats are good enough to make her better then a different average non-glass attacker, and neither Fujiyama Volcano's formula nor her MAG are that great; plus the former is kind of expensive. She's fine, but... she's kind of like a shitty version of Alice.
No, seriously. Alice (who carries a slightly better level rate) has only a little less HP, the same DEF growth, much better MND, and a FIR nuke that's about as strong as Fujiyama Volcano except much cheaper with a much larger SP pool; and actual good random battle skills unlike Mokou. She even carries the offensive debuffs like Mokou does. The main issue with Mokou is her job is completely done better by so many other characters.

Sakuya, built offensively, can do okay with Killing Doll (only okay) in combination with her speed buffs to speed her up, assuming you're running Iku to keep her ATK buff up (Otherwise Killing Doll does very bad damage, but Iku is the best anyway). Built defensively, she should actually make a pretty good tank, with speed buffs to help her switching capability and support the party overall.

Yukari, built offensively, is terrible. No, really. Shikigami+ is a powerful nuke... IF both Ran and Chen are out when she casts it. If even one isn't, it's power drops SEVERELY. Her other attacks suffer from weak formulas and her MAG stat being less impressive then it might seem due to sluggish leveling. Due to her stellar support skills, it's far better to build her as a tank, which is a position she excels at. Even if you really wanted to nuke with her anyway, you have to fill three of your active slots (one with a party member made of glass) for it to be good, and if one of them (*Cough*chen) dies then the power drops even more, since there's a small boost if they're in your inactive party. Other nukers can do as much or more damage then an optimal Shikigami+ without having to fulfill any awkward conditions.

Noooow for Eirin. It's super, super weird that you're comparing her to Komachi o_O Eirin's HP is... average. The growth is slightly above average, but since her leveling rate is very slow, it's actually not. Her defensive stats will, in play, be about identical to Remilia with a similar build, except flip her DEF/MND and keep in mind she doesn't have the self-buff to keep them high, and about a quarter lower HP. She's still a nice tank, of course, but Hourai Elixir is really underwhelming. Even a different heal, or a buff, wipes out the bonus HP; and it's a pretty weak heal in comparison to any of the other healer options. 50% of someone's health is a number you'd be very disappointed to see from someone else's heal (Unless maybe it was on Komachi, which a proper healer should STILL heal more then Eirin), bar a MT one... which should still do better then that assuming that you should have some buffage on Reimu to make her heal a lot.

eirin is also slow and has high delay skills, when switching is one of a tank's critical jobs

[Raikaria]

MAG Sanae should be able to roughly fullheal most characters (Not the major HP ones like Meiling), and does okay random battle damage. But, really, MND with a magic buff on her for her heal works out better so she can take hits (also makes it possible for her to maybe use some miracle fruits)

I always find it impossible to not compare her to the faster, cheaper, stronger-healing, tankier Minoriko though, because you generally should not need the status/debuff cure on Sanae's Heal, and Miracle Fruits is bad since it's slow when considering there's faaar easier ways to buff up people's stats.

Mokou is okay, but underwhelming. Neither of her defensive stats are good enough to make her better then a different average non-glass attacker, and neither Fujiyama Volcano's formula nor her MAG are that great; plus the former is kind of expensive. She's fine, but... she's kind of like a shitty version of Alice.
No, seriously. Alice (who carries a slightly better level rate) has only a little less HP, the same DEF growth, much better MND, and a FIR nuke that's about as strong as Fujiyama Volcano except much cheaper with a much larger SP pool; and actual good random battle skills unlike Mokou. She even carries the offensive debuffs like Mokou does. The main issue with Mokou is her job is completely done better by so many other characters.

Sakuya, built offensively, can do okay with Killing Doll (only okay) in combination with her speed buffs to speed her up, assuming you're running Iku to keep her ATK buff up (Otherwise Killing Doll does very bad damage, but Iku is the best anyway). Built defensively, she should actually make a pretty good tank, with speed buffs to help her switching capability and support the party overall.

Yukari, built offensively, is terrible. No, really. Shikigami+ is a powerful nuke... IF both Ran and Chen are out when she casts it. If even one isn't, it's power drops SEVERELY. Her other attacks suffer from weak formulas and her MAG stat being less impressive then it might seem due to sluggish leveling. Due to her stellar support skills, it's far better to build her as a tank, which is a position she excels at. Even if you really wanted to nuke with her anyway, you have to fill three of your active slots (one with a party member made of glass) for it to be good, and if one of them (*Cough*chen) dies then the power drops even more, since there's a small boost if they're in your inactive party. Other nukers can do as much or more damage then an optimal Shikigami+ without having to fulfill any awkward conditions.

Noooow for Eirin. It's super, super weird that you're comparing her to Komachi o_O Eirin's HP is... average. The growth is slightly above average, but since her leveling rate is very slow, it's actually not. Her defensive stats will, in play, be about identical to Remilia with a similar build, except flip her DEF/MND and keep in mind she doesn't have the self-buff to keep them high, and about a quarter lower HP. She's still a nice tank, of course, but Hourai Elixir is really underwhelming. Even a different heal, or a buff, wipes out the bonus HP; and it's a pretty weak heal in comparison to any of the other healer options. 50% of someone's health is a number you'd be very disappointed to see from someone else's heal (Unless maybe it was on Komachi, which a proper healer should STILL heal more then Eirin), bar a MT one... which should still do better then that assuming that you should have some buffage on Reimu to make her heal a lot.

eirin is also slow and has high delay skills, when switching is one of a tank's critical jobs

Well I'm just testing things out in this run, mainly for fun.

Although Eirin won't be attacking with a full tank build in the first place. Besides, the main reason I'm intrigued with Tank Eirin is that, unlike other tanks, barring Meiling, she's self-sufficient. She doesn't need someone else to throw a heal at her, she can heal herself if need be. And while her overall defenses may be similar to Remilia when you factor in her level rate [Which is only very slightly slower than Remi], she has far better elemental resistances. [Second only to Kaguya, who is in no way a tank]

I guess likening her to Meiling is better than Komachi, since both can self-heal, although Meiling's MND will never be anywhere near Eirin's.

[Serela]

Besides, the main reason I'm intrigued with Tank Eirin is that, unlike other tanks, barring Meiling, she's self-sufficient. She doesn't need someone else to throw a heal at her, she can heal herself if need be

The issue is, Meiling is so vastly superior for this. Her heal is much stronger, much faster, and much cheaper; plus it's on a character with vastly superior HP, DEF, and better SPD. Meiling even has incredibly good affinities as well; nearly as good as Eirin in everything but SPI.

Of course, it's for fun and all, but main-tank Eirin just isn't very effective in practice :V I'd personally rather try out main tank Sakuya, who is like an inbetween of Meiling and Eirin defensive stat wise in all areas. Many non-frail characters in a DEF build will have superior (or at least comparable) def/hp to Eirin though, but with different side-usefulness. Wriggle would, I think.

Ran would be greatly superior, for that matter.

I think Eirin would have an issue of going down in a single shot to major physicals. DEF Build yukari (something I have lots of experience with and has the same def growth and similar hp/level growth as Eirin) barely survives major physical nukes to the face in slot two. This is sufficient because slot two and since non-severe physicals are no issue (Most physicals to worry about are row attacks where slot 2 is fine; the rest are leftside priority single targets that Eirin would barely make the cut for in slot one), but in boss fights where you have to worry about this, Eirin would fall over and you'd be out a main tank, which wrecks things.

[Raikaria]

Actually, Meiling and Eirin have identical defense [46 with a 9 growth], although Meiling's faster leveling rate makes her have higher.

And Eirin is faster, she has an 8 growth while Meiling has a 7. Admittedly levels help Meiling out somewhat on that issue, I'm not sure who is practically faster once levels are factored.

I don't usually see Colorful heal more than half of Meiling's own HP, even half is beyond her when she's unbuffed. 120+120 is still paltry with her horrendous ATK and MAG, and huge HP. Meiling has a huge HP stat. Even in videos against **WINNER** I don't see Meiling heal massive amounts.

Maybe it's just my determination to find something Eirin is actually good at. Unlike Utusho... who is pretty much unsalvageable.

[Hanzo K.]

To be fair to Hong though, she's somewhere between Eirin and Tenshi in style. She's supposed to be reducing the incoming damage as much as possible via a combination of high DEF, the proper gear, and adequately-upgraded affinities. If she's built right, she'll be nullifying most incoming damage, which will allow her to use colorful to better effect.


EDIT: Incidentally, when i was playing the other night, experimenting and the like, I somehow got some sort of C++ Runtime error. I had already beaten Cirno and Youmu without saving, made it to 4F to trigger the Alice run-in at the beginning, and it spat out that error while I was exploring the rest of 2F.
If it helps, I was on my experimenting file that I had a friend help CE up max SKP.
In hindsight, I should've screencapped it. It booted back up just fine, but I lost my progress.

In addition, I stuck some of that experimental SKP into Yuuka, just enough to bring her up to par with everyone else, and she ended up with 11 or so unassigned levelups. This ended up rocketing her MAG to around 1.8k, and her HP was around 4.5k
As Family Guy so perfectly said it, "Damn Nature! You Scary!"

[qazmlpok]

I don't usually see Colorful heal more than half of Meiling's own HP, even half is beyond her when she's unbuffed. 120+120 is still paltry with her horrendous ATK and MAG, and huge HP. Meiling has a huge HP stat. Even in videos against **WINNER** I don't see Meiling heal massive amounts.

My Meiling has 580558 HP, and healed herself for 355k with colorful rain. Of course, this is with 2 Machine God Lucifiers and a rhodendron dress, so her attack stats are pretty high.

The important thing is that Meiling's heal becomes stronger if she's buffed, while Eirin's doesn't. I'm pretty sure I've had her fully heal herself before.

[Serela]

Meiling's heal has much lower delay. This is very relevant because your main tank is NOT getting switched out much. And they should be able to switch members often, which Eirin with her high delay skills cannot manage if she casts anything.

Their speed probably is roughly even due to the level difference, but Eirin's high delay skills in comparison to Meiling's makes her far slower. Hourai Elixir also has a steep mp cost for a lot of the main game duration. With her much lower max hp and defense, she'll have to be healed more as well.

Actually, Meiling and Eirin have identical defense [46 with a 9 growth], although Meiling's faster leveling rate makes her have higher.

The effect of the leveling rate difference is very significant; Meiling has a large DEF advantage after you get far enough into the game for scaling to properly set in. Her HP is similarly far higher due to that plus having a higher base growth as well.



Unfortunately, Eirin is mostly unsalvagable as well. She can kind of work in Plus as a tanky nuker with Entombing spam, but Yuyuko is far superior for this role. She's able to tank, but the additional benefits she brings to the table are inferior to what other tanks can bring, mostly because Hourai Elixir is absolute trash compared to other heals.

[Kanoe]

Yeah... During the draft, I was expecting Eirin to be one of the last picks. I never used Utsuho but at least she has some nuking ability.

I suppose you can just use Eirin as an emergency tank, swap her in if your second slot or main tank are in poor shape and can't get a heal in time. But I suppose being used as bait is not really a suitable role as any useless (or underused) character can act as a free decoy.

Her Hourai Elixir can be used to help deal with Shikieiki's nuke but that is serious late game and a rather specific role.

[Serela]

Her Hourai Elixir can be used to help deal with Shikieiki's nuke but that is serious late game and a rather specific role.

It's hard even so, as it doesn't take effect if you are at full HP and the boost instantly goes away if you use any other heal, buff, or get hit by any skill. Hourai Elixir's ability to boost your hp beyond max is nigh-ignorable because it doesn't stick. If Shikieiki at least gave warning before Last Judgment maybe, but iirc it's random...

[I have no name]

Last Judgement comes every 4th turn.

I don't remember if she opens with it or if it's 4th in her attack pattern, so I'll assume the latter.

random attack-random attack-random attack*-LAST JUDGEMENT*

When she drops below half HP, she has a chance of focusing and then unleashing Bar of the Ten Kings next turn.  However, she cannot focus on either of the starred moves, as Last Judgement takes priority.  So she's much easier to beat if you count HP and attack cycle and knock her below half health on a nuking round after her second random attack.

[Rukoto]

Because Reisen is weak to SPI, Vengeful Cannibal Spirit likely woulda actually still been pretty strong on her.

Wish I remembered that...

Anyways, I kind of struggled past Eientei at Mino 48. Died quite a few times before, but on my successful run only Eirin (you don't say :V) got killed. I threw in some heavy skillpoint investment into Cirno's defenses so she could survive at least 1 attack, she was crucial for keeping Kaggy's and Eirin's SPD debuffed, and for spreading PAR as well (which saved me from eating an Entombing from Eirin at the end as well). My biggest problem was the distribution of my attackers: I can easily deal big damage to Kaguya; Maribel can deal up to 21k with her WND nuke (I was left spamming Liberated Abilities, I couldn't use her SPI nukes while Kaguya was alive for a good reason), Kanako breaks well over 10k on Kaggy with an unbuffed Wind God as well. Although Eirin is weak to FIR, Orin's Blazing Wheel didn't do that much more damage to her than Kaguya. Tenshi was wonderful for taking minimal damage from most attacks, and removing Reisen's buffs with Sword of Rapture. Rinnousuke's Military Rule, as well as Cirno's lucky PAR procs, gave Orin enough time to finish off Eirin after I killed off Kaguya. Marisa would ahve been more helpful if I get her MAG buffed sometime in the battle.

Last Judgement comes every 4th turn.

I don't remember if she opens with it or if it's 4th in her attack pattern, so I'll assume the latter.

Sounds about right, I'm pretty darn sure she doesn't open with it.

[Serela]

If HP is less than 50% and Turn Counter/5 returns a remainder of 3 or less, 20% chance of using "Focus"

not quite at half hp immediate, but

This is annoying because it's really just not getting unlucky.

[RegalStar]

Killed all the 14F bosses except Orin. Having no effective MND buffs really make these magic spamming bosses suck. Triomagen kept on sniping my attackers with Slash too; probably would have lost if she didn't also spam Weakening Prayer instead of healing herself. Had to fight Yuyuko twice because she kept on PSNing all my party members the first time (you really don't appreciate how dangerous Strange Mist can be until you play a party where nearly everyone has to be relied on to take a hit or two). Will do Mokou a bit later; I don't want to deal with rearrange my party's equipments right now.

[Raikaria]

OK, my current status on the Eientei fight is this:

I'm reliant on getting Galaxy Stop PAR's on Kaguya, otherwise she spams BSB to insane levels. Also, after she has been killed, my debuffs stick.

However, if I kill Kaguya, Eirin starts to spam Astronomical every single turn without fail. I know killing Kaguya allows her to use it whenever, but she's used it three times in a row [My Komachi lives two due to a +128 resist item and her HP]

If I ignore Kaguya, then I lose anyway from her using Stone Bowl ad infintum, as Eirin and Reisen are PAR locked by Galaxy Stop, which will always inflict SPD Down on all three, and she eventually just buffs all three of the group to maximum stats, including speed, and we get ripped apart.

So, basically:

I need to constantly stick PAR on Kaguya while taking down Eirin, and weakening Kaguya, while also keeping Renko alive.
I need to kill Eirin first and wound Kaguya heavily, when I have a severe lack of nukes [I only have Youmu, Kanako and Kaguya]
I need to make sure Kaguya doesn't spam Bowl, which is hard because half my team inflicts debuffs, including my PAR users [Bar Reimu]

Ultimately this turns into a luck based battle of sticking PAR, otherwise Kaguya goes mental with buffs, meaning I have to kill her before she gets out of hand, and then Eirin starts to spam AE.


All the while keeping Renko alive and with enough SP to PAR, while also timing the PAR well enough that they never get a turn.

On the bright side I don't need to worry about Reisen spamming debuffs. She is always PAR'ed by Renko.

I'm at Reimu Lv 50, so right in the middle of the suggested 45-55 range.

Next to fights that have debuff immunity [Rinno], this fight was the one I knew I'd have issues with.

EDIT:
Beat Eientei and got the Getitup V.

Basically, Kaguya died first, but before she could get too many buffs off, and I focused on holding Eirin/Reisen down for as long as I could, while counteracting their buffs with debuffs.

Eirin managed to get off one, heavily debuffed, Entombeing, which I had Komachi, speedbuffed and out ready to soak it and swap others in.

One of the keys to the fight was using Reimu for PAR. I basically opened with Aya buffing her own, then Reimu's speed, and then keeping Reimu at increased speed for the whole fight, so she could PAR spam when Renko failed.

Reisen never even got to act. Poor, poor useless rabbit.

Also the post-battle chat, especially with the 'recruitment' part, is hilarious. Kaguya dosen't want to be a NEET, but when Eirin places the NEET trap she can't resist the oranges.

Oh and 'Be sure to come back when you reach floor 16 for my recruitment event'
'Stop fabricating events princess.'

[Kanoe]

It's Sunday that means... More videos!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVT0kTBTp08 (Tam's Foe and Yuugi)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbixrwiiAC8 (Suwako)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFqwTGRngAE (Nitori)

As for progress, been busy so have not done anything at Floor 18 yet.

[RegalStar]

Mokou down. I messed up on my first try and debuffed her SPD first, and got my ranks wrecked by full power Tsukis (not fighting the battle with Maribel down, thank you). Second time I debuffed her ATK and MAG a bit first before using bean bag, and then took it easy and focused on debuffs over damage, only attacking once in a while (Chen, Maribel and Mystia did the majority of damage for me). After resurrection I managed to get three characters to take a turn before she unleashed Fujiyama Volcano, so Chen, Maribel and Okuu went in and dealt about 40k damage to her. After volcano I switched in Marisa and sparked her for 57k damage, so that's that. A very by the book victory with no surprises.

[Rukoto]

Buddha Stone Bowl problems

I realize this a little late, but, Kaguya only uses her party buff when there's a minimum of 3 stat debuffs between her party. For example, it's fine to have Cirno land Icicle Fall's SPD debuffs on two of the girls, but if you used her Perfect Freeze to debuff Eientei's SPD all at once then that would trigger Kaggy's buff.

[Raikaria]

I realize this a little late, but, Kaguya only uses her party buff when there's a minimum of 3 stat debuffs between her party. For example, it's fine to have Cirno land Icicle Fall's SPD debuffs on two of the girls, but if you used her Perfect Freeze to debuff Eientei's SPD all at once then that would trigger Kaggy's buff.

I know.

Unfortunately my team's focus is debuffs, and my main PAR is Renko's Galaxy Stop, which, due to Eientei's 0 debuff resistance, will always apply 3 lots of SPD down.

Then throw in Reisen, Eirin, Rin and Komachi.

Kinda hard to not debuff when half your team debuffs.

Despite this, I wasn't dreading Eientei anywhere near as much as 'Lol Debuff Immunity' Rinnosuke. That basically means I have to find a window to use Charge against Rinno, or I just end up using Reisen for primary damage. That's how few offense buffs I have.

For that matter the last phase of the final boss is immune to [new] debuffs and status too.

[Serela]

On the final boss it's very, very easy to just grind up more so you can beat her face in regardless. Although, it's not really all hopeless either; just because you have debuffs doesn't mean you're doomed if you don't actually land them. Tenshi can also hope to dispel the final boss' last phase buffs, which is about as good as debuffing in that case.

Rinnosuke is pretty fine as long as you have a good defensive base. His attacks aren't terribly threatening if buffs are kept up and you keep tanks in the first two slots at all times (TBH I almost always had the third slot filled with someone at least alrightly durable), and by switching in people to hit weaknesses, you shouldn't have big issues hurting him either. Reimu will be able to more regularly use her support skills at that point in the game, too.

It'll take longer for sure, though, due to your offensive buff issues. Just have to be careful that your ideal hitters for each phase aren't dying.

[Rukoto]

Explored all of 13F, and moved onto 14F. It didn't take me long to run right into Evil Forge without a team protected against ailments (Cry of Anguish pretty much neutered half of my team). Thankfully Rinnousuke was protected enough to get off Military Rule, and Remilia was fully protected against ailments, so she ended up doing most of the work that battle with Rinno. Cirno got off one lucky SPD down and PAR, which helped out as well, she could also get decent damage in with Diamond Blizzard as well. Sanae got PAR'd on the opening Cry of Anguish, so she couldn't heal anyone else from ailments. Minoriko was doing fine til she got nuked by Ether Flare. Ran helped with buffs, and then got some decent damage in with Ozuno after I lost both Sanae and Minoriko. Eirin was still around though, so she got to throw an Elixir at Rinno. Yay.

[Raikaria]

I hate Floor 13 with all it's backtracking and Spiral Divers...

[Kanoe]

About a third of the way through Floor 18. It is pure pain for my party. I think Rinnosuke might be easier than the randoms at this rate. X.X

[Rukoto]

Beat up Yuyuko at Mino 61. I was definitely a bit underlevel, only Marisa, Remilia, and Kanako did any significant damage (Rinnousuke didn't get much opportunity to attack). Marisa did the bulk of the damage with 40-60k Sparks, Remilia was definitely second with her Gungnirs, while Kanako got some decent mileage out of Misayama. Cirno did get a SPD debuff in, which helped a bit. Mino managed to stay alive the whole battle and keep a portion of the team alive until the end. Still need to find Triomagen, and I guess I can look out for those knights as well.

EDIT: Beat Triomagen with surprising difficulty, Maribel got sniped out by slash in slot 3, Orin also suffered an identical fate. As a result, Kanako did the bulk of the damage with Wind God, with Remilia, Marisa, and Rinnousuke getting in their own licks when they could.