Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2  (Read 233942 times)

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #420 on: January 30, 2010, 01:39:34 AM »
?! People think suwako is difficult?! I mean yes she has a lot of health, but that's pretty much all she has going for her. I honestly think you shouldn't have difficulties with her assuming you understand everything. I mean do you know that when you switch a character out in battle, they are virtually spamming focus every time they would get a turn assuming they were in the front row? Are you distributing skillpoints in defense stats as well as offense (and not just for your tanks).

As for Sanae/Minoriko. On paper I like Sanae more...However I can never ever ever keep her alive thru a boss fight. It just seems like something will 1shot her, and not somtehing that would 1shot anybody else. Overgrowth, exileratio (or whatever it's called), etc always seems to make her croak. I mean her health and mnd don't seem *THAT* bad, but stick her in a fight, and pretty much any multi-target spell of reasonable power will make her go splat. Quit possibly the most dissapointing character for me that I thought was great originally when I got her.

As for getting Sanae, once you meet the requirements, she's guarded by a boss encounter that will most likely 1-hit ko your entire party (even your tanks) before you can even move. Everyone basically goes "wtf" their first time seeing it happen. Definately a level grind is neccesary encounter. Nitori and Suwako on the other hand, are possible to beat without grinding (Nitori should be hard though).

LHCling

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #421 on: January 30, 2010, 01:54:43 AM »
First off, Suwako is fairly eh in terms of difficulty. Though, the absurd amount of HP will make it so that you're bound to have casualties if you try to take her on from the get-go. A small grind session should minimalize this. And take advantage of "this and that"  :V

As for getting
Spoiler:
Sanae
, once you meet the requirements, she's guarded by a boss encounter that will most likely 1-hit ko your entire party (even your tanks) before you can even move. Everyone basically goes "wtf" their first time seeing it happen. Definately a level grind is neccesary encounter.
Why do a lot of people think this boss is difficult as well? I was able to take it on after doing 9F with no problems whatsoever. Nobody got KO'd.

Spoiler:
Nitori
is a bit of a bitch though, I'll admit that.

As for
Spoiler:
Sanae and Minoriko
...
The former can't take MAG hits as well overall. Despite the slight differences in MND Growth, the latter levels up much faster, meaning that the difference will start to get wider and wider. DEF difference is rather negligible. And lastly, Attribute allocation (from Lv ups and Skill Points). Honestly, the former's buffs are better off being used for offensive capabilities, while the latter's for defensive. Not to mention, the heal is good enough to use even without pumping MAG.

Enough of that...

Spoiler:
Orin
just crashed the game by means of an invalid target. So unlucky of me to get debuffed, walked all over and take ridiculous amounts of damage. I need to think of an approach (read: don't tell me anything).
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
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Just a GBZero

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #422 on: January 30, 2010, 02:06:16 AM »
Spoiler:
Orin
just crashed the game by means of an invalid target. So unlucky of me to get debuffed, walked all over and take ridiculous amounts of damage. I need to think of an approach (read: don't tell me anything).
I am only going to say one thing about that fight, she likes to crash the game if no ones in the first party spot.  That is all

nintendonut888

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #423 on: January 30, 2010, 02:19:16 AM »
?! People think suwako is difficult?! I mean yes she has a lot of health, but that's pretty much all she has going for her. I honestly think you shouldn't have difficulties with her assuming you understand everything. I mean do you know that when you switch a character out in battle, they are virtually spamming focus every time they would get a turn assuming they were in the front row? Are you distributing skillpoints in defense stats as well as offense (and not just for your tanks).

You and Trance need to realize not all of us can grind and "twink" our characters like crazy, nor do we want to. >_>

Anyway, FROGGY JUST GOT BRAVE'D. A couple levels from exploring the lovely maze known as floor 9 (seriously, I like it even if 90% of it is completely pointless) and replacing Aya with someone who can actually deal and take damage (Komachi) gave me the edge I needed.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #424 on: January 30, 2010, 02:34:14 AM »
Anyway, FROGGY JUST GOT BRAVE'D. A couple levels from exploring the lovely maze known as floor 9 (seriously, I like it even if 90% of it is completely pointless) and replacing Aya with someone who can actually deal and take damage (Komachi) gave me the edge I needed.
If you wanna use her, raise her ATK. Her multi-hit MAG skills are good for random battles, but her ATK skills shine; a PAR skill three times stronger then what Reimu and Cirno have and with actual good damage, and then a big nuke with a great element (NTR, few bosses resist and many are weak)
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

nintendonut888

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #425 on: January 30, 2010, 03:47:16 AM »
Yes, Suwako's not bad for the effort it took to get her. ;D Also, I just beat Reisen on my first try. Useless rabbit, good for nothing. Not even her sex appeal, as there is none for me. :V I should go and try Nitori again.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #426 on: January 30, 2010, 04:03:25 AM »
Quote from: BAD BOY BAITY!! (dj Remo-con MIX) link=topic=4614.msg236429#msg236429
Why do a lot of people think this boss is difficult as well? I was able to take it on after doing 9F with [b
no[/b] problems whatsoever. Nobody got KO'd.
You must have been high level then, because as I said, it tends to OHKO your entire party before you even get to MOVE with that badass opener (it is easy if you can live thru the opener though).

Quote
You and Trance need to realize not all of us can grind and "twink" our characters like crazy, nor do we want to. >_>

I never said level up or grind or anything, I'm just saying Suwako shouldn't be difficult, I found her easier than the boss guarding the end of the previous floor actually (I encountered her by mistake super early in my 8F explorations too, so I didn't really level up much since). I suspect that since you're having difficulties with a boss that has high health and low damage, you are favoring spending skillpoints on attack disproportionately to defense, I say this because it seemed to be a common mistake to many of the people when the first thread was relatively new. It's your first time playing and you aren't even at floor 10 yet, there is nothing wrong with not being aware with a certain fundamental game mechanic or something.

trancehime

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #427 on: January 30, 2010, 04:11:12 AM »
You and Trance need to realize not all of us can grind and "twink" our characters like crazy, nor do we want to. >_>

I'm only grinding like crazy because it is necessitated if I want to rip through 900m worth of HP in a decent amount of time. Furthermore, I never said anything to you about "grinding like crazy." Level is the fucking god stat and dictates almost everything about your characters, so it's only natural that you'll have to do SOME levelling up, otherwise some parts of the game become impossible.

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nintendonut888

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #428 on: January 30, 2010, 04:18:39 AM »
Fair enough, but IMO the mark of a really good RPG is one that doesn't require ANY grinding unless you've been making a beeline towards every boss.

Also, just beat Nitori. Maybe it was the levels gained in floor 9, but it was mostly because Moriya's Iron Ring kept paralyzing Nitori to the point that she couldn't fire off her mega death beam while also dealing amazing damage to her.

EDIT: ...Huh. I just went to go see if I could recruit Sanae, then got attacked by a boss and got one-shotted. Even Komachi died.

Welp. Onto floor 10.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 04:26:38 AM by nintendonut888 »
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

LHCling

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #429 on: January 30, 2010, 04:26:01 AM »
You must have been high level then, because as I said, it tends to OHKO your entire party before you even get to MOVE with that badass opener (it is easy if you can live thru the opener though).
There's a very simple approach to it. In fact, I used the same strategy as I did for a certain other Boss, only this time I had more useful items to equip and soak (even) more damage.

Fair enough, but IMO the mark of a really good RPG is one that doesn't require ANY grinding unless you've been making a beeline towards every boss.
I haven't grinded yet  :V
...that's a good start, right?
Right? ;_;
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #430 on: January 30, 2010, 04:26:33 AM »
Fair enough, but IMO the mark of a really good RPG is one that doesn't require ANY grinding unless you've been making a beeline towards every boss.

Which is exactly why I'm gung-ho about informing people that they don't need to level to beat bosses like suwako. I know I might come across as snobby by telling people that I didn't grind to beat x-boss that other people did need to grind to beat. But we're Touhou fans here, and I find it hard to believe that a Touhou fan (especially a lunatic one) wouldn't want to challenge themselves by trying again or trying something new to beat an encounter instead of leveling up to easymode it. You know? I hope that makes sense.

I really appreciate this game very much because just about everything up to the plus disk was insanely well balanced IMO, and I think other people who like challenging games as well will be able to better appreciate it if they are aware that leveling isn't actually necessary. It's like when a new shooter game comes out (cough UFO), people swear up and down it's literally impossible to no bomb this part or that part or whatever, at least until someone does it, then suddenly everyone wants to do it too.

Although in your case, if you didn't completely explore the teleporter floor, or if you didn't get lost a LITTLE, you might be behind level I dunno. I know I had to try *MANY* teleporter combinations before I found the right one to the next floor, if you faq'd it or something, that could hurt your level.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #431 on: January 30, 2010, 04:29:29 AM »
Alright, I understand. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Again, any tips on Sanae's foe? Or is this enemy meant to be fought later on? Also, like I said, I tripped EVERY teleporter on floor 7. Even once I found the way to the boss, I went all the way back to the last three-way split just to make sure the last teleporter didn't lead anywhere.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

trancehime

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #432 on: January 30, 2010, 04:32:59 AM »
EDIT: ...Huh. I just went to go see if I could recruit Sanae, then got attacked by a boss and got one-shotted. Even Komachi died.


You need to
Spoiler:
beat Sanae's Foe before you can recruit Sanae

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LHCling

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #433 on: January 30, 2010, 04:33:59 AM »
Again, any tips on Sanae's foe?
There's a very simple approach to it. In fact, I used the same strategy as I did for a certain other Boss, only this time I had more useful items to equip and soak (even) more damage.
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #434 on: January 30, 2010, 04:37:00 AM »
I haven't grinded yet  :V
...that's a good start, right?
Right? ;_;
Not having to grind yet before you reach 16F boss isn't particularly amazing. But it is better then a lot of other people, thats to be sure.

K, just finished off everything before 16F boss... and I'm really starting to get a tad irritated with how my party is turning out, using all different characters from my first play. (exception for Reimu/Marisa)

A few of the characters just seem fairly sub-par when it comes to anything other then random trash, but its such a sink in skillpoints to switch now... plus, there is the nagging thoughts that I'm just not seeing their usefulness  :V

You need to
Spoiler:
beat Sanae's Foe before you can recruit Sanae


But yeah, I'd wait out on Sanae until you do most (at least SOME) of the 10~12F puzzle. You'll have to do so for many optional bosses starting at this point, because the first times you reach them you simply are not meant to be able to win yet.

As Baity is saying (...I think  :V), putting FIR affinity equips on your tanks will help. Flowing Hellfire will happen about every 3 turns, and that is the only real danger.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

MysTeariousYukari

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #435 on: January 30, 2010, 04:39:29 AM »
On topic of Suwako, she bested me on my 1st encounter, and I had most on the floor mapped out prior to that. My death was NOWHERE near as fast as the 7F boss loss, but when key chars like Patchy get OHKO'ed by a against-the-odds Moreya's Iron Ring to the face while said target is in Slot 4, things get bad.

Levels might not be *NEEDED* but worst comes to worst, they can help a bit.

For Sanae's Foe, if you are grinding I have an obvious tip that you should NOT over-look. Fire Resistant Equips and Fire Skill Levels will help to no end. I got multiple chars to Fire Skill Level 20-30 before I took down Sanae's Foe.

Quote
K, just finished off everything before 16F boss... and I'm really starting to get a tad irritated with how my party is turning out, using all different characters from my first play. (exception for Reimu/Marisa)

A few of the characters just seem fairly sub-par when it comes to anything other then random trash, but its such a sink in skillpoints to switch now... plus, there is the nagging thoughts that I'm just not seeing their usefulness 

What party do you use? Cause I have numerous chars I do not like and I'm curious as to who you are using.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #436 on: January 30, 2010, 06:17:25 AM »
Still can't beat 16F.

What is the reccomended about of skillpoint distribution amounts for my point in the game (how much into main stat, how much into backup stat, how much into weak stat, etc.)? I feel as though I'm behind.

"What do you mean 'stop repeating everything you say'?"

trancehime

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #437 on: January 30, 2010, 07:34:13 AM »
80/100, Lv8060

Slowly, but surely, I will pass this challenge. And then I am finally done with this game.

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Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #438 on: January 30, 2010, 07:54:45 AM »
I haven't been able to find the thread. Any idea how to effectively scan the encounter rate? I think I need to scan the hidden value and not the shown one.

Spoiler:
Encounter 00121AD8 Float type

First guess what kind of variable it is, an integer use the normal type, a percentage use a type that incorporates the decimal point. Stick it in the search and then track changes. The only hidden variables of importance in the game are the battle points. Totally negligible and no need to hack.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #439 on: January 30, 2010, 07:56:43 AM »
Does anyone know the hp totals of the ver 2 bloodstained seal bosses on 21F?

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #440 on: January 30, 2010, 09:02:08 AM »
Still can't beat 16F.

What is the reccomended about of skillpoint distribution amounts for my point in the game (how much into main stat, how much into backup stat, how much into weak stat, etc.)? I feel as though I'm behind.

There's no set rule for this. But I go by how much it costs to purchase each skill level, and use that as a measurement rather than the actual skill level. Then I make it so all the sky-high or important stats cost double the skillpoints to upgrade as pretty much everything else. Examples of important IMO are stuff like patchy's mnd and mag, tanks def/mnd/hp, Aya/chen's speed, Remi/yuugi/chen/flan's attack, etc. Treat squishy caster mnd like you would treat a tank's defense. It really makes them survive everything anybody else could but unlucky single-target melee attacks.

If you want to be even more efficient, instead of pumping the important stats even more, I suggest figuring out the less useful, but actually used stats out, and making them cost 1/3 or 1/4 as much as the important stats instead of 1/2 like everything else. For example, I find stats that fit in this catagory to be stuff like patchy's def, Reimu's atk (yes her spells are composite, her support spells are not though, and I don't use her as a nuker), Kaggy's mag (important for those high def trash, but once she can one shot them, it fits here, because during bosses, she's basically only good for the stone bowl spell IMO), Tenshi's attack (hong's attack is actually fairly useful IMO since it affects her heal amount by a decent amount), etc.

 I haven't a clue how one should spend points on resists though. I tend to ignore it, then blow millions of skillpoints into them semi-evenly once in awhile. They always tend to cost alot less than everything else though. Alot of the time when I blow my points into them, I think I can really crank up their level because they are so cheap. But if you do every element, you'll be suprised at how little they go up before you're out of skillpoints!

I never really gave nature preferential treatment here, but now that I think of it as trance mentioned earlier on, I DO seem to notice overgrowth and earthquake tend to make me cringe more than most spells.

Tsumachi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #441 on: January 30, 2010, 04:23:53 PM »
Can someone upload the 2.06 exe for me? The link is still broken.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #442 on: January 30, 2010, 04:28:37 PM »
Can someone upload the 2.06 exe for me? The link is still broken.
Quote
For people who want the delicious Level-Up Cursor Memory, here is a link to the 2.06 patch. Or also, if you want the New Game+ feature.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC

Rename the thLaby.exe in this folder to thLaby2.06.exe or something, and copy all this into your game folder, minus the save file.

Whenever you need to level up a single character a ton, start 2.06 so you don't have to scroll down to the correct Level-Up bonus each time, saving a HUUUUGE amount of time for you since now you just spam Z a bunch.

I recommend against actually using 2.06 for casual play however, because of bugs and glitches. The only significant changes anyway are this, Nitori's Megawatt is much stronger, and there is a New Game+ function (Which you can probably activate in 2.06 and then play in 2.04)
See quote, new link put in.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Tsumachi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #443 on: January 30, 2010, 05:25:59 PM »

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #444 on: January 30, 2010, 07:53:32 PM »
Okay, after pumping some skill points into fire affinity and equipping fire-resisting items I can survive Sanae's foe a bit, but he's still too tough. Also there's the fact that this last time I tried, he started SPAMMING his Hellfire move. There's no way I can win if he uses it every turn. Any idea how much health this dude has?

Also, the music for Floors 10-12 is pretty pimpin'. :V
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #445 on: January 30, 2010, 08:27:57 PM »
Okay, after pumping some skill points into fire affinity and equipping fire-resisting items I can survive Sanae's foe a bit, but he's still too tough. Also there's the fact that this last time I tried, he started SPAMMING his Hellfire move. There's no way I can win if he uses it every turn. Any idea how much health this dude has?

Also, the music for Floors 10-12 is pretty pimpin'. :V
Every turn? Must have been the final phase, I suppose. Bosses usually go batshit on you when they are nearly dead (which is what makes Marisa's MASTER SPAAAARK so very needed in this game).

And if you like that music, just wait until you get to the new battle music; when the battle music changes, you'll know you're at the last part of the maze.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #446 on: January 30, 2010, 08:31:22 PM »
For all the SP it uses, Master Spark really isn't that strong. :[ Yugi can do more damage with a single Supernatural Phenomenon.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #447 on: January 30, 2010, 08:42:48 PM »
For all the SP it uses, Master Spark really isn't that strong. :[ Yugi can do more damage with a single Supernatural Phenomenon.
Use Concentrate 3 times and have someone else bench Marisa before her next turn, so she has 97% MAG buff. Then, when you pull her out again... BAM insane damage. And make sure to have her equipped with MAG boosting gear, ofc. It's really insane damage, and almost mandatory to kill some bosses final phases before a mass party killer is used.

It should do like, 4~6x the damage Yuugi's Supernatural Phenomenon does. Although this will vary greatly, especially depending on the bosses MYS affinity.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 08:44:31 PM by NeoGenesis »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #448 on: January 30, 2010, 08:58:27 PM »
For all the SP it uses, Master Spark really isn't that strong. :[ Yugi can do more damage with a single Supernatural Phenomenon.

master spark did pretty lame damage for me too back then, it becomes important later on for sure though because it makes Marisa do what nobody else can, act as a kind of 5th character character slot, just swap and spark ftw.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2
« Reply #449 on: January 30, 2010, 09:30:34 PM »
Yeah, I think the problem is that this guy is too tough for me right now. The fact is that even though I have some characters that can survive one Flowing Hellfire, he can still opt to tackle and OHKO anyone else in between. Plus Marisa's Master Spark, even powered up to that extent, isn't enough to end him once he starts spamming Hellfires. I also put a bunch of fire resistant stuff on people and it didn't help much. I'll simply have to come back later.

By the by, when do I get another person with a group heal spell?
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet