Communication Breakdance (Game Over! Town win)

[Kilgamayan]

Man I'd love someone to pop up as a Mass Dayvig right about now.

I'm already tired of this day and want it to end. There are three solid cases out there. Seniwac and Sodium for obvious reasons, Edible for, well, Lynch All Liars. If Edible is town he needs to learn that scum hunting is only 50% of the game and that convincing others you're right is the other 50% and he needs to do a hell of a lot more to convince himself Sodium is town to make people believe it.

I would not object to any of these people dying. I would not object all THREE of them dying. (Can some Nightvigges help us out? thx luv u <3)

Sodium's case is founded in a scum flip, however, so I'm most comfortable voting for him. Seniwac would be my #2 because he's been scummier than Edible for slightly longer than Edible.

[Nachtwanderlied]

UK: I'm not quite seeing your arguements. How are you defining "success" within the parameters of Edible's roleclaim? And your "free pass" point is totally dependant on Sodium being scum. If he wasn't and flipped town, Edible is on a fast train to ropeland.

[Edible]

Edible: One of those Kilga Spoonfeed Fetish Posts (tm) would be greatly appreciated right now. I'm not quite understanding your line of thought. Are you implying that Scum Sodium would rather want to be lynched?

I'm implying nothing - I'm stating that Scum Sodium would have called it quits under the pressure of the combination of a decent case and an impending alignment examination.

So Edible, who do you think we should lynch today after your determination?

And here is my problem.  When I reread D1 earlier, the two cases that came to me were Sodium (which had lots of evidence and made him a fairly clear D2 lynch) and Serp (which was almost hilariously bad, but I figured it had enough mojo to warrant mentioning).  When I pulled off this gambit, I was hoping Sodium would be scum so we could stop playing footsie about it and move on with the game.  Instead, his responses have led me to believe he's town after all, which leaves me with... Serp's case, which sucks.

I no longer think Sodium is the correct lynch for the day, but I can't really hold it against anyone else if they hammer him.  I'm still feeling Tasty Chicken Man is probably town, but in a similar fashion to Sodium, I wouldn't feel offended if he got lynched.

That leaves me with UK (who I had gut feelings on D1), Kilga (who I'm starting to feel is a little suspicious), Kiro (... rofl), and Alice (who?).  None of these are getting lynched today, given the time we have remaining, unless I can find something absolutely golden during a reread I'm not sure if I'll have time for.

[Edible]

EBWOP: Oh yeah, K4U is playing.  And I forgot to mention Roukan.  :<

[UncertainJakutten]

UK: I'm not quite seeing your arguements. How are you defining "success" within the parameters of Edible's roleclaim? And your "free pass" point is totally dependant on Sodium being scum. If he wasn't and flipped town, Edible is on a fast train to ropeland.

The idea is Edible and Sodium are scumbuddies for the free pass.

Success as scum would be the idea that he gets a freepass by super bussing sodium. However, if sodium actually lied it wouldn't fit his meta as well, so he had to use a different tack.

Basically, if Sodium is scum, Edible or Rou has to be his partner. Edible for obvious reasons, and Rou for the fact that he brought up the fact Edible was probably faking and reasoning why.

[Nachtwanderlied]

I'm not quite understanding "Sodium actually lying." Are you claiming that sodium was truthful about the claim?

[Sodium]

KGH: Could you tell me why you're voting me again? You haven't said it in a straight-forward manner once. By straight forward, I mean "I think Sodium is scum because ______".

Edible: Dirty Dirty Liar. You should go die easy. Also, you should've used umu, the moe so*shot* But really, why would you do that? I demand your thought process.

Vote pending until answers.

[Sodium]

EBWOP: I mean I'll keep or change my vote depending on the answers.

[Edible]

Edible: Dirty Dirty Liar. You should go die easy. Also, you should've used umu, the moe so*shot* But really, why would you do that? I demand your thought process.

When I reread D1 earlier, the two cases that came to me were Sodium (which had lots of evidence and made him a fairly clear D2 lynch) and Serp (which was almost hilariously bad, but I figured it had enough mojo to warrant mentioning).  When I pulled off this gambit, I was hoping Sodium would be scum so we could stop playing footsie about it and move on with the game.  Instead, his responses have led me to believe he's town after all, which leaves me with... Serp's case, which sucks.

[Kilgamayan]

Argh. The more I think about this the less sure I am of myself and the more people I add to my overall suspect pool. I think there's only one person in this game right now that's not me that I wouldn't vote for for some reason and that's pissing me off greatly.

No one should be voting for Edible. Voting for Edible implies you think ScumEdible/TownSodium and that's absolutely insane at this juncture. ScumEdible has zero reason to not just go ahead and say TownSodium was telling the truth. Worst case scenario for ScumEdible has TownSodium getting mislynched after ScumEdible flips and the remaining scum laughs in our faces for lynching the doc.

As much as I hate to admit it, ScumSodium/TownEdible also sounds ludicrous for the reasons Edible outlined about Sodium breaking down. Barring unbelievable bad luck for Edible (such as Sodium drawing some scum role that makes him immune to Lie Detection, like a mutant Godmother), Sodium probably would have thrown in the towel.

This leaves Double Town and Double Scum. would ScumEdible stick his neck out like this? Yes, so he could say exactly that, and it bothers me that he tried to raise this point in his defense. But Edible has inextricably tied himself to Sodium now, and suddenly and extra wrinkle has been thrown into the "do you believe the doc claim?" scenario.

Because of this pairing, I am willing to switch over to Seniwac, because Edible/Sodium as a scumpair is dead in the water at this point (they'll be rooted out by process of elimination before the game is over) and Edible/Sodium as two townies is a very real possibility. Throw in the risk of Sodium actually being the doc, and the fact that Edible was the Zengar swingvote...

##Unvote: Sodium Peroxide
##Vote: Seniwac

[Sodium]

So basically, you wanted to see if I were lying, but without having to go the full 100% way of discerning whether or not I'm lying, which is lynching me, so you started that gambit in hopes of catching me as scum?

...I can see the townie intent, but really, why bother? It seems like way too much effort and risk for that little of a return that can be achieved other easier ways.

[UncertainJakutten]

I'm not quite understanding "Sodium actually lying." Are you claiming that sodium was truthful about the claim?

I'm claiming from hypothetical scum Edible and Sodium.

If Sodium were scum, and Edible was trying to save the team by super bussing sodium, he'd get scrutiny since Sodium would be more likely to cave than try to flatly lie.

This leaves Double Town and Double Scum. would ScumEdible stick his neck out like this? Yes, so he could say exactly that, and it bothers me that he tried to raise this point in his defense. But Edible has inextricably tied himself to Sodium now, and suddenly and extra wrinkle has been thrown into the "do you believe the doc claim?" scenario.

I would like to state that the swing vote tell isn't as good anymore. Affinity used it in Touhou Remix.

As for this situation, I'm actually considering an Edible lynch as possibly best. His supposed power has been spent and he hasn't claimed anything else, and flat refuses to. Sodium is a marginally worse lynch in this aspect with being potentially useful.

The thing is, a Sodium lynch would also provide a lot of information. Namely, if he's scum, Edible or Rou is his scumbuddy. We basically win. If he's town, we can probably clear Edible and look more favorably on Rou. It's a good situation IMO.

[Kilgamayan]

Affinity used it in Touhou Remix on Day 3 when team scum had the manpower to afford a mislynch. Day 1 is a much different scenario.

[FinnKaenbyou]

So rather than lynch one of them in order to get information, you're willing to just jump on a different wagon and leave everyone in the dark?

Voting Seniwac is pointless unless you're convinced that
- Edible faked being Lie Detecor in order to suddenly flip the lynch he'd supported for entirely Townie purposes.
- Sodium was genuine with the Doc claim

Personally I severely disapprove of Kilga moving away from either of these lynches. >_>

[UncertainJakutten]

Affinity used it in Touhou Remix on Day 3 when team scum had the manpower to afford a mislynch. Day 1 is a much different scenario.

But if we assume ballsy ediscum... which this WOULD presuppose, the Zengar thing is less of a tell.

[Nachtwanderlied]

Kilga, do you not recall that there were posts in between Edible's fakeclaim and Sodium's decision? These posts questioned the validity of the claim. Would you still actually believe ScumSodium would've caved in EVEN THOUGH there are arguments being made against the validity of the fakeclaim?

And what do you think about Roukanken? ScumRou has been considered; what are your thoughts?

[Sodium]

Are you going to answer my question?

[Kilgamayan]

So rather than lynch one of them in order to get information, you're willing to just jump on a different wagon and leave everyone in the dark?

You say this like Seniwac's flip will be completely devoid of information. I'm very inclined to think Seniwac is the opposite alignment of whatever the Edible/Sodium pair is.

But if we assume ballsy ediscum... which this WOULD presuppose, the Zengar thing is less of a tell.

That's a huge "if", and it's not an "if" I believe.

Kilga, do you not recall that there were posts in between Edible's fakeclaim and Sodium's decision? These posts questioned the validity of the claim. Would you still actually believe ScumSodium would've caved in EVEN THOUGH there are arguments being made against the validity of the fakeclaim?

Yes.

And what do you think about Roukanken? ScumRou has been considered; what are your thoughts?

I see Roukan as possible scum because ScumRoukan tends to bus his buddies early on. His actions today, however - providing input in addition to asking questions (useful questions, too) and not taking things at face value - have me leaning town.

[Kiro]

Man, let's put it this way. Edible made an effort to come out and say something. The only reason a Scum Edible would take the time to do this is if Sodium is also Scum and is a valuable Scum role worth taking the lynch for. And that's just dumb because it only speeds up their deaths when their weakness in the first place is low numbers. We were kinda set to lynch Sodium anyways so if Scum Edible knew Sodium was Town, why stick his neck out?

So if we follow that line of thought, Edible is likely Town. Now the next part is him saying his action used on Sodium did not give him a result from Zakeri. But Edible still feels confident in making the assertion that Sodium is Town. Edible's reasoning kinda sucks, but he's still making that assertion with confidence. I'm willing to give him stock in it.

Analyzing the possible Day 2/Night 2 outcomes is just ridiculous, but the best scenarios I'm seeing now is we let Scum deal with the Edible/Sodium WIFOM as I'm seriously doubting they are a ScumPair. Scum may choose to ignore them, but they run the risk of being foiled by one or both of their abilities. For once, let Scum's actions work in our favor.

And at some point, we have to address this damn issue with KGH. I take back what I said earlier about his wagon not really garnering any information because there have been a decent amount of vote switches and differing justifications for a KGH lynch. His recent posts have not done enough to still tell us what his actual opinion is. So KGH, do you think Edible and/or Sodium are Scum?

Numerous cuts: I am essentially agreeing with how Kilga wants to proceed with this. It is the most effective way to clear up the 3 loose ends so far in this game with trying to minimize the loss if it turns out all 3 of them are Town. The worst case would be lynching the Doc and Edible dies Night 2. The KGH lynch would mean lynching a Vanilla Townie and possibly only one or neither of Sodium or Edible die Night 2 with the chance they or someone else will have gained more information about them. And yea, it also has to be KGH because I'm now not seeing anything other than these 3 being lynch choices today.

KGH: Christ, I want to see what you think more than what anyone else thinks. The only thing you say about Edible when you vote him is you don't trust him with Sodium being at L-1. But that's not a stated case on whether you think he's scum or not. You don't provide shit for opinions. Draw your own damn conclusions first. That's why I'm willing to put you on the chopping block.

[Nachtwanderlied]

I won't be here for the Day's End due to school. I don't trust in my ability to wake early. So I'm going to post a bit of analysis before I go to bed.

Edible leans townie to me. The intent behind the fakeclaim does this. Also lynching him would be an information spout, I do not believe it would be the right course of action to pursue and I doubt it would push through.

Sodium still seems scummy. For reasons previously stated by others (cheerleading, etc.) and me. I do not believe Sodium would've collapsed upon pressure because of the posts doubting the claim's validity.

I have a shaky scum feel on Roukan. This is mainly because his pouncing upon Edible for Lynch all Liers. Probably wrong here, but Roukan did not seem to mind Edible's intents, only the fact that he lied.

Kilga feels neutral as of the moment. Raises good points about ScumEdible but I'm not believing his ScumSodium arguments.

Because Sodium is scummy and I believe he would be the most likely scummy person lynched...

##UNVOTE

##VOTE SODIUM

I'm going to plunk my vote down.

CUTS BY MANY BUT NOT REALLY CARE BECAUSE OF SLEEP

[FinnKaenbyou]

You say this like Seniwac's flip will be completely devoid of information. I'm very inclined to think Seniwac is the opposite alignment of whatever the Edible/Sodium pair is.

I'll note right away that Sodium was suspicious of KGH pretty much the whole way through while Edible said 'obvtown not worth my time'.

Still don't see why we shouldn't resort to Lynch All Liars and vote Edible. The biggest reason it sticks out is, again, until the big Lie Detector thing he was totally for the Sodium lynch. Why did he get the sudden urge to pull a gambit? I can't see a reason for Town!Edible to do it, and Scum!Edible has resons to do it regardless of Sodium's alignment. As is, though, I'm leaning slightly more towards ScumBatmanEdible/TownSodium, with him hoping to get cred for clearing Sodium late-day before he flips Town.

[UncertainJakutten]

That's a huge "if", and it's not an "if" I believe.

Depends on how far Edible wanted to go. I don't believe the turning vote tell as much as you all do. Further, there is daytalk. Edible and Sodium could have had a lot more coordination. I don't like this entire situation, because the potential gain was VERY high.

...and was that the fucking hammer?

[Edible]

Nah.  Would have been, had Kilga not unvoted Sodium.

[Kiro]

No it wasn't the hammer. Informal vote count is now L-2 on Sodium since KGH moved off of Sodium earlier. I think KGH is also at L-2 with Kilga's switch, but I'll hold off voting until we get it from the mod.

##Unvote Sodium

[Kilgamayan]

Actually, hmm. I may have to rethink my initial assessment of Roukan.

Roukan, given you believe ScumEdible/TownSodium, can you explain why Edible chose "No Result" over "Sodium is telling the truth"?

[Serp]

Bleh, I was holding back with this in hopes that Sodium would get lynched anyway, but it looks like KGH is going to get lynched instead.  While it's not impossible that KGH is scum, I have very good reason to believe that Sodium is scum either way, and I'm not willing to pass up the obvious scum lynch and possibly have my role information wiped by janitor just on the off chance that someone else will tie himself to Sodium tomorrow.

I roleclaim Kaguya Houraisan, Town Doc.  More to come after I get back from dinner.

[Kilgamayan]

argh i hate every single one of you

##Unvote: Seniwac
##Vote: Sodium Peroxide

[Sodium]

Nyoro~n.

##Unvote
##Vote Sodium

[Edible]

I roleclaim Kaguya Houraisan, Town Doc.  More to come after I get back from dinner.

*dies laughing*

[Kilgamayan]

For the record, Serp was the one person referenced at the top of this post.

I didn't want to say anything at risk of exposing him to NK but hey.