Kancolle Overtakes Touhou in C86

[Leon゠Helsing]

Could've been more about it leaning more towards the moe part of the moe anthropomorphism thing, whereas Touhou doesn't do that as much.

[Clarste]

I have to admit I haven't investigated the series in detail, but it implies something about the objectification of the characters and the motives of the creators. Just makes the whole thing seem more shallow and profit-focused, as opposed to Touhou which is clearly a labor of love from ZUN.

[Helepolis]

Could've been more about it leaning more towards the moe part of the moe anthropomorphism thing, whereas Touhou doesn't do that as much.

I think ZUN's drawing skills wouldn't allow this. What would've become of Touhou cast if ZUN in fact could draw beautiful? Would he still make them moe? Then again, hard to judge. The fighter games have artwork made for ZUN which display not much moe. But the official works on the other hand some what are.

[Romantique Tp]

I couldn't care less about what happens to Kancolle.
To me comparing Kancolle to Touhou is like comparing Farmville to Skyrim. One gets bigger numbers than the other, but does it really matter?
These numbers are meaningless and are nothing to worry about. The chart should make it clear that the Kancolle community is mostly comprised of people who were never really into Touhou and a few bandwagon jumpers. These bandwagon jumpers are mostly people who used Touhou characters as stock characters and wrote stories that had otherwise nothing to do with Touhou. They're basically writting the same stuff as always, just with different characters. Most doujin circles deserving of your attention are either doing Kancolle stuff as something secondary or not doing any Kancolle stuff at all. Touhou is still huge.

Stop worrying so much about what other people do and continue enjoying what you like. If someone likes generic anime girls with ship parts tacked on... let them. For some people it must sting to see this getting slightly bigger numbers than their favorite thing, but in the end of the day none of this matters.

Touhou is dying down in official content

ZUN has barely slowed down in the past 3 years despite being busier than ever.

[Clarste]

ZUN has barely slowed down in the past 3 years despite being busier than ever.

People always seem to forget that he's kind of a full time manga writer now. He's got two series going on at the same time, one of which is monthly (which he's only done once before in Silent Sinner).

[Drake]

So it turns out the numbers are inaccurate. Based on the Web Catalog at circle.ms, Kancolle has 1498 circles, and 346 rejected. Touhou has 1910 circles, and 319 rejected.

They've left a notice on the original article acknowledging that their numbers are not exact after receiving complaints. Here's the graph with their added explanation:

[Hatateru]

Actually, no the statistics in the chart are fabricated. It's just ASCII media messing things up, KanColle hasn't officially overtaken Touhou yet as of now.

/Edit: Dang it, Drake ninja'd me :V

[Espadas]

Even if Kancolle actually surpassed Touhou..... frankly, WHO CARES?

You can be fan of both without problems, and i'm living proof of this.
On one hand, i love mythology and the sheer beauty and difficult of Touhou fights; on the other hand, i love war history and the shipgirls are undeniably well done (seriously, Taigei/Ryuuhou is so cute it should be illegal....)

And they both have awesome fanmade mangas!
The only thing that might slightly bother me is if some of the mayor creators of Touhou mangas switch COMPLETELY over to Kancolle, but that is almost non-existent....

And you forget one of the biggest problem of Kancolle: once you clear all the maps, all that is left for you to do is GRINDING.....
The events are fun but they can't go on forever (heck, in a few days they will begin the Midway event.... quite possibly the biggest historical naval event of WW2!)

I'm pretty sure many Kancolle players will ends up like me: start playing both Kancolle and Touhou.... in a few months you clear everything in Kancolle (i reached HQ lv100 and a bunch of lv80 ships in 3 months, with an event in the middle to boot) and start getting fed up with the meaningless grinding just to get a different artwork..... go back to full-time Touhou play while still enjoying the Kancolle fanmade stuff. 

Don't get antsy about such things, or Yuudachi will show you the Nightmare of Solomon.... (is it just me or in this awesome pic she looks kinda like Mokou?)

[Tiamat]

KanCole's a trading card game with currency system?  Wow.  Shows what I knew about it.  In that case, comparing it to Touhou is almost like comparing Marvel comics to Capcom videogames.  ...well, in this case, both Touhou and KanCole are videogames, but they're completely different genres with completely different monetization systems and completely different creator/publisher make-up (one's one guy doing it primarily as a labor of love and the other's a company doing it for the things companies are supposed to do things for. Profit). Heck, from what I'm reading, KanCole is more just one game as opposed to a series (and likely will not come out with new games too often since Trading Card games usually... well, don't. Instead they rely on the game itself being updated, which is yet another major difference from Touhou).

Regarding the fanservice, it is possibly unfortunate implications since you own and construct those ships, isn't it? That's like... owning and constructing fanservicey girls or something, lol.  ...with risk of losing them forever after they take "heavy damage" with ruined clothes apparently.  :O (which, if anything, makes the unfortunately implication even more fetishistic, IMHO)

As for ZUN, it's clearly not just his artstyle that's keeping him from having fanservice in Touhou.  The bloomers that everyone who's had own an upskirt appearance wears being the most blatant indication of that.  Not that I mind fanservice (preferably without unfortunate implications) myself.  Just saying that there's plenty of evidence that ZUN himself prefers to keep it out of his works (I'm still positive I even saw his own word that it was "unfortunate but can't be helped" regarding ecchi in derivative works, but I still can't re-find the source despite all my searching on the wiki)

[Prime32]

As for ZUN, it's clearly not just his artstyle that's keeping him from having fanservice in Touhou.  The bloomers that everyone who's had own an upskirt appearance wears being the most blatant indication of that.  Not that I mind fanservice (preferably without unfortunate implications) myself.  Just saying that there's plenty of evidence that ZUN himself prefers to keep it out of his works (I'm still positive I even saw his own word that it was "unfortunate but can't be helped" regarding ecchi in derivative works, but I still can't re-find the source despite all my searching on the wiki)

I do recall some time he was asked to comment on a Reimu cosplay - he noted that the cosplayer was wearing high heels, and said that Reimu would never wear something so impractical.

[cuc]

So it turns out the numbers are inaccurate. Based on the Web Catalog at circle.ms, Kancolle has 1498 circles, and 346 rejected. Touhou has 1910 circles, and 319 rejected.

They've left a notice on the original article acknowledging that their numbers are not exact after receiving complaints.

To be clearer, people are questioning the method of the article, with an emphasis on that the author seemed to have inflated the number of KanColle circles by a few hundred, by adding in the rejected circles and circles who are selling extant KanColle works rather than publishing new works.

Meanwhile, the author so far would only admit that his method was simplified for the sake of calculation, with a margin of error of 10 to 20 circles.

[game2011]

Okay, let's make it clear: according to the second graph, did KC really overtake Touhou or not?

Thanks in advance!

[Hatateru]

Okay, let's make it clear: according to the second graph, did KC really overtake Touhou or not?

Thanks in advance!

Not at all, but close. It'll very likely one-up Touhou once the anime airs

[Drake]

It did not. I posted the counts above, according to the circle cut listings from circle.ms.

[Tengukami]

Funny world we live in that I was directed to this thread via the Touhou Project FB page.

How does it feel to be a social media star, Drake?

[ZXNova]

Well the thing about Touhou is Kancolle is that unlike Kancolle, Touhou has not dipped into the mainstream at all. It is purely doujin. Kancolle on the other hand, has dipped into the mainstream. Kancolle even has an anime, which is basically the turning point of Kancolle's popularity at Comi. If the anime is good, it'll pretty go all the way to the side of mainstream.

By creating an anime, they're setting the character personalities in stone, which unlike Touhou, the character personalities are more... flexible. The main points of their personality are there (true canon), the everything else is pretty much up to you (head canon). Kind of like a main idea of the paragraph and then the minor details kind of things.

Since has an anime, the characters personalities would be completely graved in stone, which would make it less uh... desirable in the doujinshi's eyes.

[Kimidori]

Well the thing about Touhou is Kancolle is that unlike Kancolle, Touhou has not dipped into the mainstream at all. It is purely doujin. Kancolle on the other hand, has dipped into the mainstream. Kancolle even has an anime, which is basically the turning point of Kancolle's popularity at Comi. If the anime is good, it'll pretty go all the way to the side of mainstream.

By creating an anime, they're setting the character personalities in stone, which unlike Touhou, the character personalities are more... flexible. The main points of their personality are there (true canon), the everything else is pretty much up to you (head canon). Kind of like a main idea of the paragraph and then the minor details kind of things.

Since has an anime, the characters personalities would be completely graved in stone, which would make it less uh... desirable in the doujinshi's eyes.

Official personality not going to affect whatever doujin artist want to do much because in Touhou official manga and novels plenty of characters were given a solid personality but it hadn't changed much if anything in the doujin fanon at all. (in canon Momiji hates Aya but you still see MomijiXAya doujin and fanart being made like always)

[cuc]

Okay, let's make it clear: according to the second graph, did KC really overtake Touhou or not?

Thanks in advance!

The second graph is unchanged from the first graph, except putting in the actual numbers, as the author insisted his methodology and conclusion are correct. It's people who are not him that have pointed out the numbers are wrong, and suspected him of manipulating the numbers.

[Helepolis]

Well the thing about Touhou is Kancolle is that unlike Kancolle, Touhou has not dipped into the mainstream at all. It is purely doujin. Kancolle on the other hand, has dipped into the mainstream. Kancolle even has an anime, which is basically the turning point of Kancolle's popularity at Comi. If the anime is good, it'll pretty go all the way to the side of mainstream.

By creating an anime, they're setting the character personalities in stone, which unlike Touhou, the character personalities are more... flexible. The main points of their personality are there (true canon), the everything else is pretty much up to you (head canon). Kind of like a main idea of the paragraph and then the minor details kind of things.

Since has an anime, the characters personalities would be completely graved in stone, which would make it less uh... desirable in the doujinshi's eyes.

Pretty sure that without writing no character or story is "set into stone". Hard to create random Anime of something where something isn't written out before.

There is plenty set in stone by ZUN to shape the basics of Touhou based on mythology, folklore, etc. There is also plenty of history available for Kancolle to shape something as well. Both series have workable material. They aren't exactly both created from scratch.

Btw, personalities for Touhou are very well written in PMiSS, BAiJR, PosM SoPM.

edit: thanks Synnae for pointing the error

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

PosM.

Err... you mean SoPM, right?

[Tengukami]

No, he meant PoSM, also known as Phantasmagoria of Swirly Marmalade, one of ZUN's less successful canonical works. It's a short but funny little story. Look it up if you don't believe me.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

No, he meant PoSM, also known as Phantasmagoria of Swirly Marmalade, one of ZUN's less successful canonical works. It's a short but funny little story. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Woah, was that really necessary? You rude jerk.

So, are you trying to imply that I asked a dumb question with this?

[Jana]

Ammy's just joking, so please calm down.

A bit more on-topic, the Kancolle anime PV that was just released has drummed up more interest, and it looks like the anime will at least have great visuals. Maybe Kancolle didn't actually overtake Touhou this Comiket but it might happen next time.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

Ammy's just joking, so please calm down.

If that's the case, then I'm sorry.

It's just that sometimes it's hard for me to detect if people are joking on the internet or not, so I felt like he was insulting my intelligence or something.

[Helepolis]

orz

Synnae is right, it was suppose to be written SoPM. Thanks for the clearance.

Also even on Danbooru they seem to have this confusion discussion: http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1757665 (danbooru is by default nsfw, so care please)

[iPetalchaser]

So far as it seems to me, any form of 'conflict' between KanColle and Touhou exists largely as a projection stimulated by the 2chan community, where Comiket 86 is being depicted on the lines of the Romance of Three Fandoms.

Each of these three games is understandable in its own context, but somehow, i have personally grown tired of the trend towards micro-transaction based games which is increasingly pervading the gaming industry, though it is not such a large issue with Kancolle as some are making it out to be.

Anyhow, i find myself unable to stomach KanColle as a game. And no, as a long time wargamer with a keen passion for the the History of the WW2 era, Kancolle's association with WW2 is barely superficial, and matters even less than it does to, say, World of Tanks.  (oooh, controversial, controversial...)

[Jana]

If it's microtransactions you hate, turn your guns towards im@s CG instead.

So many memories...

[Tengukami]

If that's the case, then I'm sorry.

It's just that sometimes it's hard for me to detect if people are joking on the internet or not, so I felt like he was insulting my intelligence or something.

It was a joke, and if anyone, it was Hele that I was teasing. You're a poster I like and wouldn't dream of insulting your intelligence, rest assured.

[Helepolis]

Again, KanColle hasn't been around for at least half a decade so any post remotely trying to "compare" popularity or anything similar is pure for trolling / stirring drama for entertaining purposes. So yea, even next year's Ket won't tell us anything.

There is absolutely no reason to burn down fans of Kancolle. Because they are two different games in two different genres.

[Tengukami]

Yeah this non-rivalry is pure invention and weak sauce trolling. There's plenty of space in the Land of Weebs for both games. How dull it would be if we all only liked one thing. As evidenced by this very site, people can even like both.