League of Legends Thread XIII: http://www.twitch.tv/saltyteemo

[Garlyle]

Ryuu, please take some time off of your busy schedule to explain to me why exactly building double relic shield on adc/support is broken.

I can't simply take information at face value.

(PS: This is actually a question that extends to everyone)

Every minute, the support and ADC add 4.5-5 minions worth of additional gold between them (That is, for the record, a lot).  They also have significantly more survivability (Max HP, HP/5, and the heals on its effect activating), and to a lesser degree, wave clear is enhanced because of the way the active works.  Even for the initial investment, if two people have it, they will pay off the item in a handful of minutes in the amount they help each other.

Some top-tier players (including TSM apparently) are looking into a 2-1-2 lane setup using double braces on the dual lanes and saying it's better than having a jungler.

[Ryuu]

Ryuu, please take some time off of your busy schedule to explain to me why exactly building double relic shield on adc/support is broken.

I can't simply take information at face value.

(PS: This is actually a question that extends to everyone)

it's already cost efficient without the passives

the sustain it gives is retarded amazing

it makes last hitting baby easy

it has the highest equivalent gp10 out of any of the items rn when used in pairs

and stuff

Every minute, the support and ADC add 4.5-5 minions worth of additional gold between them (That is, for the record, a lot).  They also have significantly more survivability (Max HP, HP/5, and the heals on its effect activating), and to a lesser degree, wave clear is enhanced because of the way the active works.  Even for the initial investment, if two people have it, they will pay off the item in a handful of minutes in the amount they help each other.

Some top-tier players (including TSM apparently) are looking into a 2-1-2 lane setup using double braces on the dual lanes and saying it's better than having a jungler.

it basically is rn

you basically take a utility jungler or support and give them targon and smite. when it's safe they can leave to go farm a jungle camp or grab a buff or whatever, then come back and continue ruining your day top

i just did 1-3-1 with some friends and it worked exceptionally well(except for when they got cocky and super threw and we lost). the 3 had 3 targons of course

[Raikaria]

Some top-tier players (including TSM apparently) are looking into a 2-1-2 lane setup using double braces on the dual lanes and saying it's better than having a jungler.

Yep; cutting XP gain; an entire source of goldflow and map pressure and objective control is better than having a jungler.

... Well if that's true it says how dumb trinkets are.

As for Relic Sheild surely it sets about your build too much to be seen as a positive. Especially since it's sell value is reduced because it's a gold item. I get you're not going full face of the mountain; but still.

Although I do think it is important to note that unless you plan to all-in; there is absolutely no reason to start Doran's Blade now that you can start Longsword+3 Pots.

[Ryuu]

Yep; cutting XP gain; an entire source of goldflow and map pressure and objective control is better than having a jungler.

... Well if that's true it says how dumb trinkets are.

As for Relic Sheild surely it sets about your build too much to be seen as a positive. Especially since it's sell value is reduced because it's a gold item. I get you're not going full face of the mountain; but still.

Although I do think it is important to note that unless you plan to all-in; there is absolutely no reason to start Doran's Blade now that you can start Longsword+3 Pots.

everyone but the support(and mid who never buys one) just hangs onto relic shield for basically the entire game until they need the slot

it doesn't matter that the sell back price is really bad, because at that point it's not uncommon for people to be reaching 1k gold shared each

not to mention the intense pressure you put on top lane, basically cutting out the top laner from the game if the jungler doesn't come and turn it into a (losing) duo lane.

also it's not a trinket haw haw haw

also also even if you go all in, it's still better to buy targon because the insane gold sharing value throughout the game

also also also i believe all of those semicolons were improper uses

[Raikaria]

No my point about the trinket is the effect Trinkets is the effect they have on the jungler's ability to apply map pressure due to the increased vision. Which greatly reduces the value of a jungler.

Also tried the Double Brace strat with two botlanes with my brother; Nami+Trist [We did OK; but we kinda kept getting 4 man ganked with no mia's because the rest of the team fed]; and then Sivir + Annie.

I had a BF Sword at 7 minutes in the Sivir/Annie game. I had a full build worth about 21k [I had to buy a Mercurial due to a fed Malzahar; as well as an IE last item] at 40.

I don't think you get enough gold to justify duo top; not in the slightest; but it's certainly stupid botlane; especially with characters such as Annie. [Annie had a full build of cheap items at 30 mins because she didn't expect THIS MUCH MONEY; so proceeded to start selling cheaper items for more expensive ones]

But the amount of gold isn't more than what a farming jungler would be getting. Effectively the support gets 2 creeps per wave; or 4 per min. About 100 gold. A farming jungler doing full clears every 50 seconds with a Wriggles gets more gold every minute than a laner achieving perfect CS.

Plus a lot of your argument of merit for duo top is it would shut out the enemy top. But that's not true; because such a strat would be easily seen coming by the lack of a jungler. Pick a jungler such as Nautilus with really strong C.C who likes the new jungle [Nautilus loves new Golem; and even Wriggles with Titan's Wrath] and you can shut down the 2 enemy laners; since you'll have more levels and Nautilus will be far richer than the 'support'.

Toplaners have been dealing with 2v1's all season. Never seemed to shut down Renekton and co. I've seen 2v1's backfire quite a lot too; thanks to junglers and the fact 2v1's naturally shove.

Or you just take a character who's more utility and won't die easily while still getting SOME farm [Lulu and Janna come to mind here; especially as they can go Shurelia's path] and put them top; and pick a jungler like Shyvana and go nuts; get more gold than the laners; and outscale that way.

EDIT:

GUYS A STAR JUST APPEARED ON MY GAME SELECT SCREEN AND THIS APPEARED

[Cadmas]

Boy I go to sleep and we're already in the league of black cleavers.

[Suikama]

the other thing about targon is it's pretty much max strength gold wise from level 1. upgrading it doesn't really give much more so even if you don't need it you can just start targon and build real items right after

the other gp10s and the new jungle items take a while before they start giving gold, but by then any targon lane would already be ahead and can start stomping

its basically like the best dorans item ever


also for SOME REASON riot made it so clearing double buffs WILL NOT LET YOU HIT LEVEL 3

so yeah jungle sucks



yep

[Raikaria]

You'll be upgrading Coin a LOT sooner than 10 mins into the game though; especially as it doubles the passive gold.

Saying 5 mins is generous.

Also do you know a joke I made about the new jungle?

As a single target jungle; I go Blue -> Wright -> Red



It's the French Route.

Clearly you must always start with this route if you are for some reason playing Jungle Fiora.

[Cadmas]

Welp our support rage quit 5 minutes in. GG another promo.

[Suikama]

You'll be upgrading Coin a LOT sooner than 10 mins into the game though; especially as it doubles the passive gold.

Saying 5 mins is generous.

Also do you know a joke I made about the new jungle?

As a single target jungle; I go Blue -> Wright -> Red



It's the French Route.

Clearly you must always start with this route if you are for some reason playing Jungle Fiora.

lol copied pokemon gg rito

[Raikaria]

So; you know how I said Wriggles is god for farming and all?

Well; in All 4 One we got Kah'Zix. I went jungle.

I casually looked at my Lizard Spirit and saw I had given me almost 1,000 gold.

Also we've had:

5 Katarinas [Us] v 5 Tristanas Katarinas won
5 Ezreals [Us] v 5 Ziggs Ziggs won what turned out a base race
5 Lulus[Us]  v 5 Shacos VERY EASY WIN FOR THE LULUS

Also all through that Kah game we had one guy crying over how Teemos would be more fun.

I'm sorry; but rightclicking is more fun than all the stuff you do with Kah'Zix? Especially with leaping over the Lux skillshots? WAT

[Cadmas]

Had to win a 4v5 to get into promo once again. Here we go, try number 5.

Welp 1st game. Total team of ass bags. I say support then the guy above me starts going INVADE over and over again and locks in blitz.
Then asks if I want to be blitz and I say no b/c blitz is shit so I go eve jungle. We invade and blitz misses a point blank grab on a unmoving malz.
Then goes to bot lane to fed along with Graves, Brand tries to help bot with me but every time it turns into about 3 deaths with graves walking away with full hp.
Our top laner gets pissed and yells at everyone. Brand gets pissed and everyone reports everybody.

Promos are the devil.

[Suikama]

rofl so targon's passive stacks with hydra

so if you can one hit the wave then everyone gets cs for just oneall your current targon charges

[Schezo]

Promos are the devil.

Pretty much. When I lost streaked into Silver V it took me like 3 promos to get out but I found silver IV worse for some reason as it took 7 or 8 promos to get to silver III after that its a lot easier just that low silver is annoying to get out of.

[Aba Matindesu!]

Tried double shield/brace botlane. Full build in 15 minutes.

god why

[Cadmas]

Pretty much. When I lost streaked into Silver V it took me like 3 promos to get out but I found silver IV worse for some reason as it took 7 or 8 promos to get to silver III after that its a lot easier just that low silver is annoying to get out of.

Welp just lost again. You just get the teammates from hell.

Path with Teleport just destroyed bot and top.

[Suikama]

okay new taric is actually kinda cool

stun -> auto -> ult -> auto -> shatter -> auto -> heal -> auto ->OH BOY STUN IS BACK UP


rofl all of these targons

[Ryuu]

okay new taric is actually kinda cool

stun -> auto -> ult -> auto -> shatter -> auto -> heal -> auto ->OH BOY STUN IS BACK UP


rofl all of these targons

jungle/top taric is stupid and mean

[Suikama]

i can just imagine morello standing on a mountain face somewhere yelling "I WARNED YOU ALL ABOUT SUPPORTS"

[Raikaria]

Have I told you about how dumb Lulu lane is now yet? I'm sure I have. Might have been elsewhere where I inspired a small horde of Lane Lulu players who asked me for advice on it.

Anyway:



MUNDO TOO STRONG FOR YOU

I almost got a Penta but some scumbag stole it.

[Suikama]

Targon nerfs from 30 second to 60 second recharge instead of making it so it wont stack with itself or something else reasonable thanks rito

guess it will be back to philostone eventually

oh wait nevermind this is relic shield only not to targon though

so basically it doesnt help much

i guess it helps in that you cant just get it and sit on it without upgrading it and also makes it weaker earlygame in line with the other support items but eh i dunno

[Raikaria]

Targon nerfs from 30 second to 60 second recharge instead of making it so it wont stack with itself or something else reasonable thanks rito

guess it will be back to philostone eventually

oh wait nevermind this is relic shield only not to targon though

so basically it doesnt help much

It means you have to invest more gold for the full return; which makes it far less appealing and reduces the early snowballing effect quite drastically.#

===

Listened to Yasou's voicefiles recently uploaded to the PBE. He has special intereactions with Ninjas; Yi and... Riven?

Who he seems to particularly hate.

Then you read his lore. The Elder was killed by a Wind Technique.

Riven's Ultimate after she reforges her blade?

Wind Slash.

Three guesses who killed the elder which wound up making Yasou an outcast.

Makes you wonder what else Riven did in Noxus' name before Singed went chemical weapons on Ionia. After all; Varus apparently hates Riven in particular as well.

[Ryuu]

varus has no real care about riven moreso than any other noxian

he just doesn't give a crap about her quest for redeption

[Suikama]

wuju? no i would not

look at this sassy motherfucker

[Cadmas]

Those attack sounds. Now I have another champ to shout things while I play. HAKKKKKKUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

[hyorinryu]

Can we play "Be a Man" for him too, or will it stay just a Xin thing?

[Suikama]

so i was looking at yasuo's VA's page and

Fire Emblem: Awakening - Inigo

omg pls

Skullgirls - Leviathan

okay thats why he sounded so immediately familar

[hyorinryu]

Skullgirls - Leviathan

Day One Buy. That's the snake guy right?

[Suikama]

Day One Buy. That's the snake guy right?

yeah it's Squiggly's snake

[Chaore]

so what i've gotten from all this yasuo talk is ship him and riven madly

gotcha