Author Topic: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!  (Read 76401 times)

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #180 on: December 06, 2011, 01:09:32 PM »
Take it from a native speaker: They definitely had an idea what they wanted to convey with the words, that's not the result you get when you choose for sound alone. They just weren't capable of actually executing the idea properly, or didn't care to, which is kinda sad because it makes destroys the whole atmosphere of the scenes when you are forced to understand the words, as I am.

Imagine the iconic scene with Saber and she went "I asking you. You be my mister?" in English. *That* is how it feels to me when German comes up in Fate-stories.

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #181 on: December 06, 2011, 01:14:08 PM »
Yeaaah...I can see what you're getting at.
Maybe they should've hired a native speaker to do that.
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Dead Princess Sakana

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #182 on: December 06, 2011, 01:25:34 PM »
Pretty much, yeah. Or at least someone who had it at school, considering it seems to be a popular language  :derp:
Though, as I said, it's not like English gets treated much better in those regards   :V

On the rest of the episode: Riiiiiiiiin~  :*  So she was destined to be awesome from a young age, good good~

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #183 on: December 06, 2011, 02:08:52 PM »
Yeah, the moment that Grr Man started coming up, my first thought was, "Man, I wonder how Sakana and Iryan and friends are going to respond to that, they had to have futzed it up again..."

Spoiler:
Also, remind me, why was Sakura given to the Matou? I recall there was a reason in F/SN, just fuck me if I can remember it. I know she was chosen because magic circuits can't be split up, and Rin was the designated heir, I just don't recall why she got yielded up to the Matou.

Also kinda agreeing with Chaore on Kariya. But at this point, we know his mind is gone. Dude spent a year being tortured, and is living on literal borrowed time. There's no way he's thinking even a fraction as straight as he would have been before all this business.

Spoiler:
So yeah, he's probably convinced himself that Ma' Tohsoka actually loves him and all he has to do is deal with all the problems and she'll melt right in his arms. Despite killing the father of her children, whom she presumably doesn't hate.

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #184 on: December 06, 2011, 04:26:35 PM »
Take it from a native speaker: They definitely had an idea what they wanted to convey with the words, that's not the result you get when you choose for sound alone. They just weren't capable of actually executing the idea properly, or didn't care to, which is kinda sad because it makes destroys the whole atmosphere of the scenes when you are forced to understand the words, as I am.

Imagine the iconic scene with Saber and she went "I asking you. You be my mister?" in English. *That* is how it feels to me when German comes up in Fate-stories.

Ok,

How would you say it in native correctness:
Spoiler:
Du, wer die Fur geoffnet, wird Freunde  sein
Fur die Aussage nimm meine Hand
Wir weden in meinem Zimmer treffen
Sind deine Arme klein, gross, schlank, steif?
Jeder ist gleich
I erm also watch Hong Kong subs, and Hong Kong Saber/Sader actually did say that above line, 'I asking you, How you am master of my?'
lol
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 04:15:21 PM by ♛ 禁断の夢双 »
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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #185 on: December 06, 2011, 06:01:47 PM »
Spoiler:
Also, remind me, why was Sakura given to the Matou? I recall there was a reason in F/SN, just fuck me if I can remember it. I know she was chosen because magic circuits can't be split up, and Rin was the designated heir, I just don't recall why she got yielded up to the Matou.
F/SN spoilers, ho!
Spoiler:
First of all, the Matou bloodline had thinned out to the point that they weren't generating any magi anymore; the only heir they had was Shinji, and the only thing he was good for was making everyone around him look better by comparison.  So at first you could assume it was kind of a peace offering between the two big magus families of Fuyuki, with Tohsaka handing over the daughter that they didn't need so that Zouken could... Alter her and make her the heir of Matou.  However, Heaven's Feel goes on to say that Tokiomi was in cahoots with Zouken far more than with just that; they devised the plan to turn Sakura into a second Grail together, and he knew exactly what the poor girl was going to go through.

...If I remember right, at least.  Knowing me I screwed up somewhere and misinterpreted something, but...
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miracle★cookie

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #186 on: December 07, 2011, 04:05:35 AM »
F/SN spoilers, ho!
Spoiler:
First of all, the Matou bloodline had thinned out to the point that they weren't generating any magi anymore; the only heir they had was Shinji, and the only thing he was good for was making everyone around him look better by comparison.  So at first you could assume it was kind of a peace offering between the two big magus families of Fuyuki, with Tohsaka handing over the daughter that they didn't need so that Zouken could... Alter her and make her the heir of Matou.  However, Heaven's Feel goes on to say that Tokiomi was in cahoots with Zouken far more than with just that; they devised the plan to turn Sakura into a second Grail together, and he knew exactly what the poor girl was going to go through.

...If I remember right, at least.  Knowing me I screwed up somewhere and misinterpreted something, but...
a bit of novel spoiler along the way but keep in mid that
Spoiler:
both Rin and Sakura had very rare traits; Rin being able to use all five great elements and Sakura possessing only imaginary numbers. it's bad enough to have more than one children in a mage family because only one can inherit the family's thaumaturgical crest, thus causing fights and other problems among the family; e.g. the Aozaki family (which led to Touko killing her grandfather after he suddenly changed the heiress to Aoko) and the Sophia-Ri family (Sola's brother was chosen as the heir but failed as a mage, and Sola herself pressured into marrying Kayneth). it's worse for Tokiomi because both of his daughters possessed such valuable talents.

in Sakura's case, Tokiomi knew that she would be exploited because of her extraordinary trait (the Association for one would take and keep her in formalin as a rare specimen in the name of "protection"); in other words she wouldn't really have ended up much better than she did. Tokiomi had hoped that Sakura could protect herself by learning the Matou family's magecraft, of course at the same time he was also obsessed with reaching the Root and whatnot like the stereotypical mage that he was. and whether he was fully aware of the extent of the things Zouken would put Sakura through or not is another thing (though he should've known that Sakura's imaginary numbers weren't compatible with Matou's water element; Rin mentioned something like this in HF iirc), but he did try to be a good father to his daughters.

how well that turned out for everyone is a different story. but abnormal ppl cannot expect to have a normal life

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #187 on: December 07, 2011, 04:13:46 PM »
^

ah, typical isn't it, the same with those like Xmen or something...or better put like Shiki (the chick, not the guy since he is living the dream harem.....(in some routes)

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Moerin

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #188 on: December 10, 2011, 06:29:55 PM »
Spoiler:
"BEHOLD MY ENDLESS ARMIES!"

Rider is the best Servant. 8)
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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #189 on: December 10, 2011, 11:38:44 PM »
ROYAL DRINKING CONTEST!!!
That is all.  8)

Oh, and
Spoiler:
Saber got schooled in the way of being a true king. Broskander tells it like it is!
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ActionDan

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #190 on: December 11, 2011, 01:24:19 AM »
This episode was quite good.

Waver continues to be clueless

Don't lynch me.

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #191 on: December 11, 2011, 06:06:23 PM »
Spoiler:

The way he says it like it is, indeed... what is a pitiful view of a king to sacrifice as charity to his men? and not lead them by example? In all kings and all leaders, a very prevalent feature is there: lead the people to victory, and by leading, sometimes people lose, sometimes they win.
In fact, if King Arthur was real and this was how he was I doubt his legend would be as worthy of sing song in today's legends. Think of previous British kings (The Barbarians as so claim by Romans) such as Caratacus. In compared with real queens like Boudica and Cartimandua, indeed, from this aspect Saber seems... pathetic.
An army for charity? Subsequently to fail to learn that some roads lead to dead ends, that in such decisions to carry on... is failure of being King. Even Hughes de Payens who founded the Templars had a better way to lead than that (not that he was actually any better, imo)
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Sality

Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #192 on: December 12, 2011, 02:26:37 AM »
In the matter of ideals, nothing is true or false, good or evil. I wouldn't say Saber's ideal is wrong, but she is just too naive,
Spoiler:
to think that her wish will save her country from its fall. Rider made a point there, king is someone who you admire, an exemplary one;  King shall grieve, King shall weep, but not regret, that's just insulting those who believe in and admire the king.


Rider, you awesome mofo you.
Also, I love how Gilgamesh stated his own view in regard to the subject; he might be a jerk, but he is still one of the kings and we have to admit it.

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #193 on: December 12, 2011, 04:28:55 AM »
well, ideals should not be bent by one's desire to undo what that ideal led to.

Gil did his usual thing, I guess in essence, his being the oldest, and really: the true ancestry of all kings, traced its origin back to him, so yeah, can't argue with HIS law.
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Hello Purvis

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #194 on: December 12, 2011, 08:09:21 AM »
Gil remains, as always, the best
Spoiler:
and unimpressed by reality marbles
. But Rider has proven to be a worthy second yet again.

However, I feel that the point of that dialogue between the two has been missed. Rider talked about the concept of king as embodiment of state; the kind of thing that would generally lead to post-mortem deification. Saber was talking about a leader; that is, someone who actually gets shit down and makes the state work. Rider straight up claimed that he didn't really feel bothered about the future he left behind, Saber most certainly was. The latter is significantly necessary in regards to actually leaving a world worth having after one perishes.

Spoiler:
Also, that is especially amusing to me given how much shit Alexander's mother had to give him about leaving an heir to the empire. Nothing says don't care about the future of your autocracy like not even trying to leave someone to inherit it. (Though to be fair, Alexander was also probably gay. But not like that forestalled adoption).

But yeah, I really enjoyed this episode. Reminds me of old books that are designed as a dialogue between famous figures and put all kinds of words in their mouths.

Edit:
Spoiler:
Also: Yay Bucephalus! I would have been disappointed if Alexander didn't have his iconic horse.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 08:13:43 AM by Robo-Purvis BZT »

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #195 on: December 12, 2011, 06:35:38 PM »
Personally I thought it this way:

Rider talks about leadership by example, and by clear example, such was his brand of leadership and he would crack heads to get to the top. Think of his as Branson-like empire. His is big, and talks big, and thinks big. His is a forward company, a fetching piece of the stock market that everyone wants to buy, and he shows people what reason should they buy into HIS idea. I think in a way, his would be the sort that says if there are weaklings in your army, you don't abandon them, but you make them die in your battlefield, you step on their dead bodies and you proceed, and smash the enemies with your sheer will. (that does seem pretty Roman to be honest)

Saber was talking about an apologetic type of leadership, the sort that 'if I did this, I would have compensated for that' in a way, many corporations today perform this sort of leadership because as the business environment becomes ever tougher, you have to take parts that compensate other parts, you become what you are, and when you fail, there is much there needed to 'regret' and 'redo' which was what essentially Saber said. (in hindsight, companies tend to 'redo' by firing perhaps the previous CEO, or changing structure etc, do they always regret? that is debatable...think Olympus's latest scandal) Is it a good kind of leadership? It depends, if the right moves are made, empires don't end, but if wrong, empires die. Such factors chronicle on who is making decisions based on what: public opinion vs personal veto. To do the latter, it means to understand it deeper than anyone else... *perhaps the tendency of brutal honesty in order to lead may fare better in the long run, rather than its opposite. Saber however, seem to demonstrate serving the people first, it is a government type of management perhaps, allowing the weak to be saved, rather than abandon.

Gilgamesh talks of an unapologetic empire that spreads and conquers, in corporate giants this would be a massive financial empire that fills and fills, engulfing all that is underneath it. Think the sunglasses giant Luxotica, now imagine that as Gil's speech, he mentioned of everything of treasure belongs to him, if you take essence, he meant as acquiring everything under the sun under his brand of leadership, his was to spread influence, and all under him shall obey the franchiser/head office under no circumstances be allowed to venture beyond its walls of rules and concept. If the head office has worked on formula A and it works, everyone will follow formula A to the letter. In his way, the weak must perish for the strong.

now this is just me of course, I see it in this way.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 06:40:26 PM by ♛ 禁断の夢双 »
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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #196 on: December 13, 2011, 11:19:09 AM »
Well, the whole flaw with that metaphor is that governments aren't businesses. Governments are not designed to exploit for a profit, they're designed to administer and keep peace. In fact, much of what governments do (maintanence, running courts and such) work at a loss by default, because if they were converted into something profitable, they would be too expensive to use.  Governments don't really exist for their own sake for their own sake like corporations do. They exist for the sake of the peoples that they run.  So in particular, comparing Saber's position to a corporation doesn't fit.

But, I will acknowledge that Rider's viewpoint IS corporate, because it is essentially selfish. It is also not very sustainable or dependable as time moves on. Once the big man is gone, it falls apart. 

As for Gil, I don't feel he was even discussing much. The closest thing he said at all to a governing statement was that he considered everyone under his law, and had no mercy in executing it. He largely sat the whole thing out, mostly because I imagine he found the discussion to be largely academic.

Chaore

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #197 on: December 16, 2011, 11:27:14 PM »
Spoiler:
Gilgamesh has booze in the gate of babylon. This is the only thing in the episode I really give a damn about, holy shit.

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #198 on: December 22, 2011, 03:50:05 PM »
So this episode was more of Gil proving why he is the best, and also "Hey remember this?"

I really should have anticipated the new base. Oh well.

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #199 on: December 22, 2011, 06:36:38 PM »
I must question why when he has booze in his babylon must he drink Tokiomi's clearly insignificant french wines.
I mean, surely those cannot be considered anything above vile brew when compared with something from his babylon.


ok, one more question:

where the fuck is Ilya?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 06:43:26 PM by ♛ ストラトス »
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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #200 on: December 22, 2011, 07:40:06 PM »
I must question why when he has booze in his babylon must he drink Tokiomi's clearly insignificant french wines.
I mean, surely those cannot be considered anything above vile brew when compared with something from his babylon.


ok, one more question:

where the fuck is Ilya?

He wants to check out the modern world, to see if it's to his liking

Also, Illya should be in Soviet Russia, no?

ActionDan

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #201 on: December 22, 2011, 08:56:21 PM »
Spoiler:
I might have interpreted Kirei's "feelings" and "joy" and "inner desires" assiociated with Kariya entirely differently than what was intended.

Don't lynch me.

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #202 on: December 23, 2011, 03:03:18 AM »
I must question why when he has booze in his babylon must he drink Tokiomi's clearly insignificant french wines.
I mean, surely those cannot be considered anything above vile brew when compared with something from his babylon.

He's doing it ironically, as a way to taunt Tokiomi.

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #203 on: December 23, 2011, 03:33:09 AM »
After the first sip I imagine if he wanted to check out anything he would flung the damn 1980s chateau whateverhaveyoudeaux to the wall to taunt him.

and if he really liked much I expected him to sing karaoke and pick up girls already. Or do the sort of things that overbearing confident young men might do these days lol.
like... driving fast cars and swimming and yachting etc.
sadly, I suppose with the grail war one cannot do much of those without caution.
but heck, not like he has shown much caution already anyway.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 03:52:20 AM by ♛ ストラトス »
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Chaore

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #204 on: December 24, 2011, 02:07:04 PM »
Spoiler:
It is ten seconds into the episode and I want to punch somebody now. 'IT IS THE SAME AS GATE OF BABYLON, TOO HIGH TO BE RANKED LOL'.

I'm not even sure where to even start here with the issues Rider is developing with me now. Historical? Magical? FuckyouI'maRabbitical?

Edit: why is gilgamesh essentially making up for everything rider now holy shit?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 02:53:26 PM by Chaore »

Widermelonz

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #205 on: December 24, 2011, 03:34:30 PM »
Holy shit, I saw a fucking
Spoiler:
F-15
in the next episode preview.

AHHHHHHHHH, April can't come soon enough.

Moerin

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #206 on: December 24, 2011, 07:37:57 PM »
Holy shit, I saw a fucking
Spoiler:
F-15
in the next episode preview.
Oh, you wait.  Just you wait, eheheh~ ^___^

And so an entire season of ever escalating insanity comes to a close with Caster
Spoiler:
summoning Cthulu.
  Long have I waited for this moment, and gaaah the wait for season two is going to kill me. >.<
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yuyukos

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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #207 on: December 25, 2011, 06:29:28 AM »
Rider's Gordius Wheel is awesome, ride wherever he wants in style  :V.
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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #208 on: December 25, 2011, 09:14:04 AM »
Okay, so I see
Spoiler:
Uryuu's speech to caster about god and shit.
And I just have one thing to say about it.

Shine on you crazy motherfuckin' diamond, shine on.
The man speaks truth!
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Re: I ask of you, are you my master's father? Fate/Zero thread!
« Reply #209 on: December 26, 2011, 03:34:54 AM »
and for some reason seeing the state of recent world history, I came to sort of understand his viewpoint and intend to subscribe to his particular brand of faith.

ALL HAIL CASTER

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