Author Topic: What do you call this kind of pattern?  (Read 2956 times)

What do you call this kind of pattern?
« on: November 02, 2010, 11:00:09 PM »
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=%E6%B0%97%E5%90%88%E3%81%84%E9%81%BF%E3%81%91&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=617

That's a search on 気合い避け, it's obviously a technical term specific to danmaku.  I need to translate it for Moedan but if I pick a word the community doesn't actually use it's not helpful.  I'm not experienced enough with danmaku to know what it's supposed to be, that's why I'm translating Moedan.  (I almost called cutbacks switchbacks, but the Touhou wiki used the word cutbacks so that's what I went with)

It literally means avoiding using kiai,  kiai being either yell, warrior spirit, or a yell indicating warrior spirit. (in case you didn't know) 

If you can't see anything about those patterns that makes you say, "oh, he's talking about blah," I may just have to declare it some sort of Japanese slang fanspeak and pick a translation for it myself. 
Or actually try to translate some of those pages to see what's going on.  >.<

Sapz

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Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2010, 11:14:58 PM »
From the sound of it and the screenshots I'd guess it resembles another term I saw being thrown around at shmups forum:

'Hakkyou: A term which literally means "to go mad" but in Galuda II is referred to when the bosses spit out a stupid amount of bullets, in excess of 500 on screen at once, to be precise.'

It might be a little different to that especially as you make it seems like something the player does rather than the enemy (I know no Japanese whatsoever so I'm just speculating here), but it seems like it means something to do with when an enemy releases a huge amount of bullets - maybe dodging one of these 'hakkyou's. :V I can't see much of any other similarity in terms of dodging from the screenshots, at any rate.
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Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2010, 11:18:00 PM »
I DO suspect it's something along the lines of "Act quickly and bravely."  It just really, really bothers me that it's a danmaku only idiom.  And no japanese knowledge is necessary, I *am* shooting for the word the *english* community uses.

Hell, as long as I'm asking "What does the community call?" questions, how about these too

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1024&bih=617&q=%E5%81%B6%E6%95%B0%E5%BC%BE&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

偶数弾 Even number of paths, with the added bonus that the word for "paths" in this case is the same as the word for "bullet"  I translated it even splits which is horrible but I needed something short.

And its brother

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1024&bih=617&q=%E5%A5%87%E6%95%B0%E5%BC%BE&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

奇数弾 Odd number of paths, odd bullets, odd splits...

Funny.  Strange number of even types in that search.

Sapz

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Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2010, 11:24:59 PM »
At a guess, it seems the first one is to do with even spreads of bullets i.e. the bullets are fired in rows or waves of 2 or 4 or whatever. This is sometimes useful because if the spread is aimed at you, you can pretty much avoid it by just staying still.

           /   \
e.g.  /       \   Where slashes are bullets.
       /  You \

The second would appear to be the opposite, 3-way spreads and the like, which you could avoid by tap-streaming if it was aimed at you. I'd just call them even or odd spreads.

This is still pure speculation. :V
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Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2010, 11:33:34 PM »
This is still pure speculation. :V

I'd agree with your definitions.

As far as I know, there is no specific terminology to express these types of bullet waves in English. You may be forced to just describe them as "a wave of bullets aimed at you" and "a wave of bullets aimed around you."

I DO suspect it's something along the lines of "Act quickly and bravely."  It just really, really bothers me that it's a danmaku only idiom.  And no japanese knowledge is necessary, I *am* shooting for the word the *english* community uses.

Unleash your beast within! If I had to guess, it's probably referring to a mass of randomly aimed bullets, where there is no gimmickery to learn, so your only option is to "act quickly and bravely!" Again, I don't think there's an English term specific to this, other than "random shit everywhere, pray to your diety."

Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2010, 11:41:18 PM »
I'd go with even spread and odd spread. I remember seeing those terms used in some Strikers 1945 II guide and there are a lot of those kinds of patterns in that game. I'm pretty sure the thing being taught there is to recognize when you should just stay still (even).
"First of all, for those who've cleared the game, please try playing for more points." - ZUN

Drake

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Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 01:23:11 AM »
I think it's more of "Avoid kiai", which would imply not to charge in recklessly. In the context of danmaku, I would call this "Look before you leap" or "Tread carefully", or (most accurately?) "Stand your ground" or "Stay calm" or "Resilience is key" or "See the Matrix" for some english equivalents, because one false move and you're dead. Yeah it's basically for random spreads, but I'm sure the focus is more on avoiding doing something rash or dodging too widely or misjudging positions; and the fact that you can stay mostly still and dodge the whole thing while barely moving. Thus the above.

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Furienify

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Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 01:27:01 AM »
I think it's more of "Avoid kiai", which would imply not to charge in recklessly. In the context of danmaku, I would call this "Look before you leap" or "Tread carefully", or (most accurately?) "Stand your ground" or "Stay calm" or "Resilience is key" or "See the Matrix" for some english equivalents, because one false move and you're dead. Yeah it's basically for random spreads, but I'm sure the focus is more on avoiding doing something rash or dodging too widely or misjudging positions; and the fact that you can stay mostly still and dodge the whole thing while barely moving. Thus the above.

^Agree with this.

I didn't know there were specific terms for these in Japanese, that's interesting. Bullets have always been bullets to me, there's just streaming etc. strategies.

Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 01:36:30 AM »
Kiai is explicitly an adjective in this though, and sake is a noun.  A robo translation would probably be "Spirited avoidance."  Also, culturally, kiai is something you would never avoid.  I gotta go with the "There's no trick, just go with it" interpretation.  That sort of matches what the card says to do.  It's hard to see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sKD0GCMfqw as requiring more "spirited avoidance" than http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY4pxLCVz9Y&feature=related though.  OTOH, the first gives you no bombs and one extra life, the second gives you six bombs and no extra lives (it was the bomb lesson).

OMG, that HAS to be the answer because now the translation all falls into place.  (It's always easier to translate something when you know what they're talking about first, especially if you're just faking it like I am...)

After several hours of thinking about it I am severely tempted to translate it as "Dodge fu."  Your dodge fu is strong, young one.  "OMG how do you get through that!?!"  "Dodge fu."  It looked hopeless but I pulled out some great dodge fu.  It really works.  It does.  Would that be wrong?

As for the even and odd spreads... yes, that's exactly what they are.  I should've told you that.  I was just wondering if there were an accepted term for it, and I do like spreads a lot better than splits.  Changing it now.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 01:49:28 AM by Tubercular Ox »

Drake

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Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 02:05:04 AM »
The only thing is that because of the lack of particles (casual word-stringing etc) you can't just say "this is obviously an adjective" when you've spent so much time trying to figure out what it means.
気合い is not an adjective, as far as I know. The い is there as part of 合い, not as a derivational suffix. After looking stuff up it seems to be more "spirit" than the implied screaming and whatever, in which case, "concentration" works too. "Dodge fu" might work, but I think sounds pretty lame :V

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: What do you call this kind of pattern?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 02:21:46 AM »
Shot down!  Time to come up with something more professional then.

And thanks I did think the い made it an adjective, especially since 気合 without the い is *still* read kiai.  Still, the way the dialog works I'm convinced I have the right idea now.

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Moedan_Spell_Card_12

Yes, the phooey joke is bad.  So is the one she actually told.  I'm going to translate card 13, which is part 2 of these things, and see if she tells any more bad jokes before I decide on a final translation for the word.