~NAME~
You're Town. Find the scum and kill them before they do the same to you.
Please confirm in-thread. I wish you the best of luck.
~NAME~
Welcome to Super Touhou RPG, Parsee Mizuhashi. Please try to contain yourhatehaet long enough to read this Role PM.
(I) Hit Points. You start the game with 8 HP.
(I) Generally Fed Up With People. You may Tackle two people per day.
(B) Benevolence? You are incapable of healing anyone. :]
(T) Tackle. Your Tackle inflicts 1 damage.
(S) Tongue-Cut Sparrow "Large Box and Small Box" (4, 3 days). Any player who attacks you has a 50% chance of being counterattacked for 1.5 times the power of their attack (rounded down). This applies even if your spell card breaks today.
Please confirm in-thread. I wish you the best of luck.
Also, why is there no ORin? I demand Orin!LOLstage5boss.
LOLstage5boss.
Darn you Neitz.:-*
/confirmed again.
This is where I would put up a Rika avatar, but there's pretty much no decent art of her so :V
Put up a Bernkastel avatar instead.That's the opposite of SCIENCE and is therefore hypocrisy.
That's the opposite of SCIENCE and is therefore hypocrisy.
Still kinda early. Ramus has 5 more hours I think.
(Yellow is Pesco's colour btw)
u? hasn't notified me that you were in yet.
Alive, the Portal way:
...
7) ShiningDrake
I'm used to seeing names in not-orange.[/color]
Or is u? just being silly?I'm being silly.
I just don't want this to be like all of the other nightless games where "Geez, how long until we have to start worrying about the mafia kill?" *DEAD BODY* "OH SHI-"
you sure it's a good idea to telegraph your moves in this game?
Since that was purely uncalled for.His reason sounded decent for early game, your "tackle for the lulz" attitude was kind of fishy.
His reason sounded decent for early game, your "tackle for the lulz" attitude was kind of fishy.
And so is using self-righteous indignation as a preemptive excuse to pummel Rou, for that matter.
And you aren't calling out Zak on the former?Actually, yes, I was going to call him on that before I got to your exchange of blows.
you sure it's a good idea to telegraph your moves in this game?You announced aloud your future actions as well, didn't you?
As for the latter, it takes 24 hours to recharge as far as I understand, right? Odds are, he'll just get healed while I attack himThen you would keep attacking him even if it was clear we didn't want him to die? Wouldn't that be a waste of town's healing resources?
...And in other news, are you healing UK because you think she took too big a hit, or because she isn't scum?
Yeah, I'm sort of mad that I had to come in and start the action with the freaking TANK.Then why did you do it? Just after you said you didn't want to use it. And then you just said for people to go ahead and heal her.
Then why did you do it? Just after you said you didn't want to use it. And then you just said for people to go ahead and heal her.Well, the problem is that there were a lot of people saying 'I'll willing to tackle', but no-one actually was. It's like the difference between a vote and an FoS.
On the opposing side, I clearly wanted to tackle RamusHerein lies the problem. Wanting to do it and actually doing it are two different things.
Jeez, UK, way to overreact. >_>
If 3 damage is such a problem for you, why'd you attack me rather than healing yourself?
Actually, yes, I was going to call him on that before I got to your exchange of blows.
His point was was more concrete and to the fact, but it's essentially the same "announcing intend to maybe act" declaration.
Then you would keep attacking him even if it was clear we didn't want him to die? Wouldn't that be a waste of town's healing resources?
Then why did you do it? Just after you said you didn't want to use it. And then you just said for people to go ahead and heal her.
Healing someone on your own accord does not seem right especially when the defendant has announced her intention to hit Rou 2 more times, even if the hits were ineffectual. Same comment goes to Drake (holo rare).
Well, the problem is that there were a lot of people saying 'I'll willing to tackle', but no-one actually was. It's like the difference between a vote and an FoS.
Thirdly, the point about the mafia needing to have SOME form of attack. I'm willing to agree with Zak they must have SOME way of hurting us, otherwise Town could endlessly heal itself and never lose.
You announced aloud your future actions as well, didn't you?"Attacking someone tomorrow" is too vague to be a legitimate telegraph. My point was Rou could just use his shield and whatever attacks UK makes would be useless. near as I can say, UK doesn't seem to be as interested in revenge as she lead on
And Zak, why are you questioning only UK without questioning me?You didn't say something to the effect of "I'm going to be attacking you for the next three days straight."
My point was Rou could just use his shield and whatever attacks UK makes would be useless. near as I can say, UK doesn't seem to be as interested in revenge as she lead on
I don't think Rou is scummy for what he did. We're not really use to the set-up, so the way things progressed, it seemed like everyone was like the newb that didn't want to leave his vote on someone in case they get lynched and are town.
@UK: u?'s own example had him attacking someone without double octothorpes, so I think your attack went through (assuming you're not BSing us). Rou stated he can "take a little punishment" before getting damaged, which implies he has a shield or something?
How much life do you think I have? I'll give you a hint. You were just shy of half my life with ONE HIT.And given that no-one had bothered to mention anything like how much health they had...what would we gain from sitting and doing nothing?
This is weak as hell. There's also a difference between one vote and three. Thank god other people can "unvote" for you.There's also a difference between one vote and no votes. We learn something from one vote. We don't from no votes.
Ok?Therefore
I also dislike that you're basically saying we should waste our days healing UK just because you wanted to attack her on a whim.Oh god what is this.
- I'm not saying people should heal UK for no reason, I'm saying they should heal her if they thought my case against her was bad.
- I didn't attack her on a whim - I gave reasoning for why I didn't like what she'd said, and given that it was Day 1 and no-one else had done anything I think I had a good enough reason to act.
And given that no-one had bothered to mention anything like how much health they had...what would we gain from sitting and doing nothing?
There's also a difference between one vote and no votes. We learn something from one vote. We don't from no votes.
Therefore
a) We need to act or the mafia will come from behind and beat the crap out of us.
b) Your outright denial of mafia-specific powers seemed to almost promote the current apathy we're suffering from. T_T
- I didn't attack her on a whim - I gave reasoning for why I didn't like what she'd said, and given that it was Day 1 and no-one else had done anything I think I had a good enough reason to act.
Keep in mind that you attacking UK, and us healing her, prevents us from doing anything else the rest of the day.Protip: Even if 3 people heal UK today, there are still 6 other players. Don't act like I've killed off Day 2 entirely.
I suppose? I'm merely going by other games of this sort.You mean like Crawl? Where scum had multiple NKs they could cash in at once?
The thing is, that would have been fine. If you dealt ONE damage. But since you deal THREE damage, you need 3 times as strong a case to attack ANYONE without being anti-town at the least.So I should just sit back and hope that other people do something to get the game started. That's a good idea, yeah. >_>
And why would we mention that? Is there any reason to claim healths? Actually, is there any reason to not claim healths? I wanna hear both sides.
I'd like to discuss the following:
Should we divulge our stats? Knowing each other's HP may allow us to keep each other alive until we think we've found scum. Knowing who can do what damage and who can heal may be useful, too. I'm just not sure how much this information would benefit scum.
I had asked this earlier, as well. I think it was ignored.
Since we know everyone has HP, and everyone has an attack, and everyone has a heal, we should be able to reveal these things without scum making more use of the knowledge than us. What we shouldn't reveal is if we have a trick up our sleeve like a cop or something. This would allow us to attribute proper weight to each person's "vote". I also don't really see a reason for us to divulge our spellcards, though.
The real issue here is that we don't know how scum operates. I can only assume they have some sort of vig ability like in Crawl, but that's also because it's the only nightless game I've played so far. There exists the possibility that giving out our base stats may allow scum to eliminate us somehow.
You mean like Crawl? Where scum had multiple NKs they could cash in at once?
So I should just sit back and hope that other people do something to get the game started. That's a good idea, yeah. >_>
- I'm not saying people should heal UK for no reason, I'm saying they should heal her if they thought my case against her was bad.That's almost as bad. Instead of presenting convincing arguments to support her death, you were just encouraging dissenters to act and negate both sides' efforts.
- I didn't attack her on a whim - I gave reasoning for why I didn't like what she'd said, and given that it was Day 1 and no-one else had done anything I think I had a good enough reason to act.As I said, I agree that your reason for suspicion was somewhat decent. The problem is that you did exactly what you said you didn't want to do one post (and less than half an hour) earlier.
Jeez, UK, way to overreact. >_>
If 3 damage is such a problem for you, why'd you attack me rather than healing yourself?
How much life do you think I have? I'll give you a hint. You were just shy of half my life with ONE HIT.Wouldn't that be actually another reason to focus on healing first before striking back?
The real issue here is that we don't know how scum operates. I can only assume they have some sort of vig ability like in Crawl, but that's also because it's the only nightless game I've played so far. There exists the possibility that giving out our base stats may allow scum to eliminate us somehow.That's my concern as well. Should scum have some way of dealing damage stealthly, allowing them to keep tabs on our health would help them know who they could off easily.
Wouldn't that be actually another reason to focus on healing first before striking back?
That's almost as bad. Instead of presenting convincing arguments to support her death, you were just encouraging dissenters to act and negate both sides' efforts.D1. What more could I really have said against her at the time?
As I said, I agree that your reason for suspicion was somewhat decent. The problem is that you did exactly what you said you didn't want to do one post (and less than half an hour) earlier.I didn't want to, but I had to because no-one else was. If I left it to deadline there was the risk of everyone sending in a tackle at once and utter chaos.
I have a few suspicions about the setup, but I don't know if it's worth putting everyone's information into the open for. My point was that I had no idea how much health UK had. Heck, I still don't - we have to trust her when she says she has 6 health, don't we?
- Each scum gets their own attack, which effectively charges for every day they don't use it. So activate it on D4, it hits for 4-damage. Then it resets to 0. Obviously, it's secret.
I didn't want to, but I had to because no-one else was. If I left it to deadline there was the risk of everyone sending in a tackle at once and utter chaos.
Keep in mind that you attacking UK, and us healing her, prevents us from doing anything else the rest of the day.Umm ... chill. Seriously.
But three votes is OVERKILL.Two things are made clear:
I really don't understand why this is so hard to understand.
Where did I say this? I most certainly do not have 6 health.Oh, damn. I misread 72 and thought you said I'd taken half your life in one hit. My bad.
Rou, you can't play impulsively. You can argue that your initial attack wasn't impulsive but at the reasoning level you gave and the level of the attack you used, there is too much disproportion for it to not be impulsiveWell, sorry that I don't like the idea of 'oh crap, I hit for a lot of damage, I'd better just sit here until someone else gets things started'. I tried to hold myself to it, but things just weren't going anywhere, were they?
1. Rou has no control over the amount of vote he sets out at any one time. It will always be three.
2. No one else is doing anything, and Rou can't force other people to vote.
7 hp,
Oh, damn. I misread 72 and thought you said I'd taken half your life in one hit. My bad.
Well, sorry that I don't like the idea of 'oh crap, I hit for a lot of damage, I'd better just sit here until someone else gets things started'. I tried to hold myself to it, but things just weren't going anywhere, were they?
HE COULD HAVE JUST ACTUALLY SAID HIS PROBLEM INSTEAD OF DOING A RIDICULOUSLY POWERFUL ATTACK HE COULDN'T UNDO!My entire point is that actions speak louder than words. Plenty of people had said they were willing to attack, but none of them actually DID, and there was no obvious sign of that changing.
The amount of damage I can do has, in my opinion, been blown wildly out of proportion. From what UK is saying, I'd still need a good two shots on her for a KO, and that's assuming no-one heals her. So saying 'it's a big move you can't take back' is really overreacting, since it can be patched up with a few heals (more than some attacks, but still relatively managable).
My entire point is that actions speak louder than words. Plenty of people had said they were willing to attack, but none of them actually DID, and there was no obvious sign of that changing.
Also, if I'd just given opinions and not tackled anyone, I'd be accused of cheerleading. Lose-lose situation, so I may as well take the option that generates discussion.
##Tackle: Ramus
Healing someone on your own accord does not seem right especially when the defendant has announced her intention to hit Rou 2 more times, even if the hits were ineffectual. Same comment goes to Drake (holo rare).
ALSO: UK and Roukanken, STFU now, you're detracting into a flame war which tends to remove attention from the scummies.
He stepped in too early and used his offensive character to kick start the game. I give him props for that. He had a lot more guts than the rest of us, and the only fault he has is that he has a strong character. I'm willing to put down that Roukanken is very towny right now for at least doing something.
The amount of damage I can do has, in my opinion, been blown wildly out of proportion. From what UK is saying, I'd still need a good two shots on her for a KO, and that's assuming no-one heals her. So saying 'it's a big move you can't take back' is really overreacting, since it can be patched up with a few heals (more than some attacks, but still relatively managable).
My entire point is that actions speak louder than words.
Yes, a good two shots more. That's because though it takes out NEARLY HALF HER HEALTH, it doesn't quite reach that point. Let's put it in perspective though... You have THREE TIMES AS MUCH ATTACK POWER as some other people have. That means that it's three times as much of a problem if you're wrong. Three times as good if you're right, but the odds are that you are going to be wrong, especially with reasoning like that!
Why the hell am I lecturing you on this? I'm the most impulsive damn factor IN this game and I think what you did was ridiculous.
The amount of damage I can do has, in my opinion, been blown wildly out of proportion. From what UK is saying, I'd still need a good two shots on her for a KO, and that's assuming no-one heals her. So saying 'it's a big move you can't take back' is really overreacting, since it can be patched up with a few heals (more than some attacks, but still relatively managable).I agree with this too. Healing is basically this game's equivalent of Unvoting, so it's not as if this is "SERIOUS BUSINESS PERMANENT DAMAGE OH NOES T_T". Heck, If everyone heals UK, and then Rou attacks her again, there's a more than likely chance that the end result would be her hp total would be exactly what it was at before this started (due to the Max = Start+3 rule)
Healing is basically this game's equivalent of Unvoting, so it's not as if this is "SERIOUS BUSINESS PERMANENT DAMAGE OH NOES T_T".
Now that I think about it, I have a good point. Ramus, Drake, if you both think it's a waste of time healing someone that Rou targeted, then why are you wasting time healing someone that Rou targeted? More importantly, why does the blame for someone wasting their vote on healing Rou's target fall onto Rou, instead of the people who are choosing to heal Rou's target?
This is actually a good point. You've got someone who given the chance will kill someone as soon as possible for any reason she can muster, even if it's just a gut feeling from looking at the name's list, who is whining about being targeted by an attack that didn't even take off half of her life total, which is basically this game's equivalent of L-3 in a normal 9 player game.
Now that this has been put into perspective, I'd like to call out UK's overreaction as unusual self-preservation.
I agree with this too. Healing is basically this game's equivalent of Unvoting, so it's not as if this is "SERIOUS BUSINESS PERMANENT DAMAGE OH NOES T_T". Heck, If everyone heals UK, and then Rou attacks her again, there's a more than likely chance that the end result would be her hp total would be exactly what it was at before this started (due to the Max = Start+3 rule)
Unvoting in other games doesn't prevent you from voting. And that's usually because you change your mind about something, not because you disagree with something someone else did. If Rou attacks, and two, three other people heal, there's very little happening other than wasted time. It's at the VERY least annoying when time is wasted on something like this, but, if the scum have some way of attacking outside of just the normal hurt/heal mechanics, then it actually would benefit them if we waste our actions.
And I think I'll wake up tomorrow and immediately skip over the UK and Roukanken slap fight for the real meat of the discussion.
Now that I think about it, I have a good point. Ramus, Drake, if you both think it's a waste of time healing someone that Rou targeted, then why are you wasting time healing someone that Rou targeted? More importantly, why does the blame for someone wasting their vote on healing Rou's target fall onto Rou, instead of the people who are choosing to heal Rou's target?
UK is incapable of dealing damage so far. Perhaps she can, but I haven't seen that yet. Would you like to tackle me again out of ignorance? Or tackle me because I decided to heal instead of hit someone?
Do not look at the consequences of her actions, but rather, what happens. She clearly wanted to hurt Rou as much as she hurt him (though she might say that is the adrenaline talking) at the time of your tackle, making her just as bad as Rou from your point of view (whether or not she can do damage does not factor in). Calling this line of reasoning ignorance is rather strawmanny.
3 heals for every attack you do, disabling whoever is healing for that day. How can you possibly think this is pro town with your WEAK reasoning?It's more pro-town than letting people continue to do nothing, if you ask me.
And drops someone to close to half health. Real fucking smart. You actually wouldn't have been accused of cheerleading quite likely. Most people here would probably recognize your tankity tankness is TOO FUCKING POWERFUL FOR WEAK D1 REASONS!Oh god, it's so powerful that I'd need to do it for three days straight to kill you. Take it easy, UK.
Very little basis against me healing, and from what I've seen, UK is incapable of dealing damage so far.Healing UK effectively means you think she's Town because you don't want her to die. You then heal her on the basis that 'she took too big a hit', which is a waste of a heal unless you have a reason to believe her.
I refuse. Unless Rou gives me decent reasoning for his actions, apologizes for them, or proves sufficiently that this will be a useless deadlock.Why is 'because otherwise nothing is going to happen' not a good enough reason, exactly?
You have THREE TIMES AS MUCH ATTACK POWER as some other people have. That means that it's three times as much of a problem if you're wrong. Three times as good if you're right, but the odds are that you are going to be wrong, especially with reasoning like that!Stop acting like I'm a vig. She's hardly at death's door, is she?
And what if those actions happen to be rather obviously not a good idea?Still gets people talking and starts the game, doesn't it?
Roukanken, go apologize to UK for hitting her. That's not we do at school.I'd apologise if she'd done something, anything, to make me think what I'd done was a bad idea. All I see is her basically overreacting in a game where tackles really aren't as absolute as she makes out to be.
More so, this can be abused so that anyone townie will spend time healing instead of hurting, giving the Mafia time to do whatever they want.This is exactly the problem I have here. Why are people so paranoid about having everyone at absolutely perfect health? It's like being scared because you have one or two votes on you.
Unvoting in other games doesn't prevent you from voting.We also have about 3 days where normally we'd have one. I'd say it just about evens out.
I disagree with your argument since more is lost than a regular "triplevote"But we are probably capable to lose more at this point. Because, well, it's a setup where you get a new vote every day.
Healing still takes actions we probably shouldn't waste for reasoning already stated.What are the odds of everyone having made some sort of action by the end of the day? Pretty low, I'm willing to guess.
My point was that if nothing ends up getting done because of a move like what Rou did, then it isn't a good thing.So to prove this point, you...healed UK and thus made sure that nothing got done?
We should be dropping people down into the HP range where they're in mortal peril, two or three at a time if possible. Chances are that we'll put a mafioso in danger that wayThe way you word this, it sounds like you want to pick these people at random. T_T
Oh, I agree that my attack was impulsive. Just three times less damaging, so three times more ok.
I said this earlier, I thought it was a better way to disagree with what Rou did than attacking him, or even just saying it point-blank. My point was that if nothing ends up getting done because of a move like what Rou did, then it isn't a good thing. It was NOT that healing her was a waste of time in itself, it was that THE ENTIRE SITUATION was a waste of time if we ended up right where we started. I didn't see any real reason to believe UK was scum, so I didn't want to leave her at such reduced health like that.I understand where you are coming from, but you have to understand that the point you make of Rou forcing people to Heal UK sort of falls flat on it's face once you realize that Rou never actually forced anyone to Heal UK. In the end, you and Ramus both chose to heal UK. Apparently, for the fact that you both thought healing UK was a necessary waste of time when it really was not necessary.
Technically, the odds are that UK is town, since there have to be more town than scum, so odds were that leaving UK as she was and not doing anything was WORSE than just having nothing happen because we end up where we started.Technically this is true. I've never seen anyone win a Mafia game on technical probabilities however. In fact, just going off of Technical probabilities, the town is much more likely to lose, because if every lynch was randomly selected, there would always be more than a 50% chance of a townie dying.
UncertainKitten has taken 3 damage.I think I know why UK's hit didn't work on Rou.
u? has taken 1 damage.
Everyone else has taken no damage.
It is now Day 2.
Revving Up The Engine: EdibleIs this a hurt?
Also, Ramus will be modkilled if he again compares Mafia to Mafia Wars. actually not, but it needed to be said
Drake's reasoning seems better than Ramus'
Healing someone on your own accord does not seem right especially when the defendant has announced her intention to hit Rou 2 more times, even if the hits were ineffectual. Same comment goes to Drake (holo rare).
Ramus's 66 is also very highly suspect. Rou asks what to me looks like a very legitimate question, but Ramus avoids answering it and instead says he doesn't want to see anyone step on someone else's toes. The lack of justification until after Drake's post is also suspect.
The way you word this, it sounds like you want to pick these people at random. T_T
I think I know why UK's hit didn't work on Rou.
Hm... Maybe after the next damage count the ##s need to be reinstated.
It's a nice idea, but you're failing to factor in the spellcards. We really have no idea what anyone is capable of with spellcards. I'm pretty sure if Roukanken can do 3 damage with a single blow, we've got far more devastating means of destruction in this game. So getting someone in mortal peril will cause them to pull out that spellcard, and hit a townie, which could be even worse.
Finally, I foresee this game ending with a townie and mafiat squaring off in a duel. That'll be badass.
Well, we don't know just what sorts of abilities are granted by spellcards at this point, but as I see it, even if most of them end up dealing lots of damage, the odds of a townie hitting a scum with it are significant enough that if the townie is agreed upon to be the best bet at killing scum, and is going to die anyway, forcing him to activate his spellcard first is probably for the best. Heck, the townie in peril might just end up vindicating himself by killing off scum. And if it's scum that get pressured into using their spellcards before they die... Well, better to force it and then finish them off than to let them choose the tactically most effective time.
Badass as it might be, I hope you'll forgive me if I try to avoid that.
Also @Zakeri: Your birthday isn't listed on this site. Curiously, you listed it on that other site - that's how I found out.Really? I just checked and I do have it entered on my profile. Is there another option I missed or something?
It's more pro-town than letting people continue to do nothing, if you ask me.
Oh god, it's so powerful that I'd need to do it for three days straight to kill you. Take it easy, UK.
Why is 'because otherwise nothing is going to happen' not a good enough reason, exactly?
Stop acting like I'm a vig. She's hardly at death's door, is she?
Still gets people talking and starts the game, doesn't it?
I'd apologise if she'd done something, anything, to make me think what I'd done was a bad idea. All I see is her basically overreacting in a game where tackles really aren't as absolute as she makes out to be.
This is exactly the problem I have here. Why are people so paranoid about having everyone at absolutely perfect health? It's like being scared because you have one or two votes on you.
The way you word this, it sounds like you want to pick these people at random. T_T
If you divide a negative number by three, it's still a negative number. I'm not even willing to place Rou's vote as three times as damaging since he at least had reasoning provided for why you might be scum. Yes, it was weak reasoning, but your reasoning for attacking him was OMGUS Pure and simple - absolutely nothing to do with scum hunting in the first place.
Finally, you're once again failing to include the human factor. Rou is not an automatic vote UK machine. And he is probably the only one this game that even has three attack. If I'm getting the math from UK's clues right, there would need to be at least three people, two of which with 2 attack, that would have to jump onto UK WHILE ignoring the fact that she had lost three HP already. In fact, if UK is a townie, and this actually did happen, then we as town should be THANKFUL it happened because it's almost a sure thing that someone is scum on that wagon.
Also, Serpentarius is right in that in this game the town has a unique ability to put massive pressure on more than one person at a time. Right now my biggest suspicions are UK and Ramus (I'm getting an innocent feeling from the way Drake is phrasing his response, so he's not as bad as Ramus in my view)
It's a nice idea, but you're failing to factor in the spellcards. We really have no idea what anyone is capable of with spellcards. I'm pretty sure if Roukanken can do 3 damage with a single blow, we've got far more devastating means of destruction in this game. So getting someone in mortal peril will cause them to pull out that spellcard, and hit a townie, which could be even worse.
If we didn't have any evidence to go on, then I'd settle for it, but evidence always piles up one way or the other, so the point is moot.
Well, we don't know just what sorts of abilities are granted by spellcards at this point, but as I see it, even if most of them end up dealing lots of damage, the odds of a townie hitting a scum with it are significant enough that if the townie is agreed upon to be the best bet at killing scum, and is going to die anyway, forcing him to activate his spellcard first is probably for the best. Heck, the townie in peril might just end up vindicating himself by killing off scum. And if it's scum that get pressured into using their spellcards before they die... Well, better to force it and then finish them off than to let them choose the tactically most effective time.
A reminder: You get one action per damage count.
You just gained scum points. Agreeing with someone that might be trying to get us into scum sniping range.
If we want to put massive pressure on a person they DAMN well better have done something scummy.
Townies will die. It happens in more mafia games than you think. kanakodwi.gif
sure, we could just go infinity days everyone just healing ourselves, and no one would die. Then the mod would get pissed of and everyone would lose. Or if the mod was smart, the mafia would eventually be able to use their secret votes on the people who's heals do absolutely nothing, and we'd only be closer to finding scum due to changes in technical probability. Or, instead, we could go ahead and start tackling people for scummy behavior.
I don't see what exactly is wrong with Serp's proposed plan unless I've missed something.
I thought it was implied that the people we would be putting in peril would be people we thought were scum. Of course, that just might be my common sense talking. :V
Also, this umu = u? wordfilter is going to bite us on the ass the next time someone aims for the moe sound effect.umu...
Aww, but I like getting attention :(
UK on the other hand seems to be doing everything she can to capitalize on Rous action to look like an injured victim, blowing the thing out of proportion and attacking everyone who disagrees with her. I would even guess that she's playing the "angry Kitten" role on purpose to justify it.
OK, now I think UK is looking far worse than Rou for this whole thing. I still think Rou's action was excessive, but he had some understandable reasons for it, and it also does feel too proactive an action for scum so early on.
I also don't like Ramus very much. Mostly because he heals UK like it's the obvious thing to do and proceeds to act like both UK and Rou are obvTown without questioning or analyzing their actions.
Has produced nothing today other than 'Rou should calm down because his tank is OP' and needless setup speculation. I don't approve.
I still notice that no one has addressed the disclosure issue that was brought up. I guess we're just going to twiddle our thumbs, then. On the other hand, I suppose it doesn't matter - if someone's in low-HP peril, they'll probably come out and say it.
I heavily dislike Serp's assertion that healing is anti-town. That entire post feels like he knows more about the game setup than we do.
7) When you reach 0HP, you're dead (or will be when I update the thread). There may exist some "last shot" spell cards that only activate at the border of life and death, though.
6) So about Spell Cards.
--Declaring one takes up your action for the day.
--All spell cards are one-use.
--Your name will appear in red in damage counts while it lasts.
--Any damage you take will go against your spell card's durability, not your HP. Your spell card will break if you take at least as much damage as your card's durability. Overflow damage will count against your HP.
--Spell cards will automatically fade after a certain number of days.
--While in a spell card trance the only ability you can use is the one associated with the spell card. You can, of course, choose not to target anyone.
5) If I cannot update the thread every night for some reason, please do not panic. It will probably not kill you to wait until morning or something. In the event that I do not return to the site for a few days, then you may start panicking.
Alive, the Portal way:
1) Affinity (Shizuha Aki) <-- Low posting
2) Edible (Rumia) <-- High posting
3) Nietz (Minoriko Aki) <-- Moderate Posting
4) Ramus (Wriggle Nightbug) <-- High Posting
5) Roukanken (Rika) <-- High posting
6) Serpentarius (Yamame Kurodani) <-- Low posting
7) ShiningDrake (Sara) <--Moderate Posting
8) UncertainKitten (Nazrin) <-- High Posting
9) Zakeri/Five Magic Stones (Letty Whiterock) <-- High Posting
We should be dropping people down into the HP range where they're in mortal peril
Exactly why we don't want to get many people down to low HP at once. If there's such a thing as a counter bomb (read "there may exist" as "There is"), and it's in the hands of the Mafia, town is going to take some hurting for it.If there's a Counterbomb option, and the Mafia has it, then ... what? Then we hope the mafia is inactive and doesn't notice that they are going to die when we lynch them?
Compounded with the fact that spellcards are a one shot deal. So we only get to guess what they can do before they go off. Think of it as a random effect NUKE. This makes killing someone and surviving crapshoot unless it's done fast, meaning that if we weaken someone, they may find themselves down to one option of using the spellcard. And note, that both townies and scum will have a reason to do this, but only scum will have 100% accuracy for hitting someone they know is an enemy. Thus, the pressure tactic doesn't work in this set up.Actually, rereading these rules, it's much more comforting to know them, because watch:
--Any damage you take will go against your spell card's durability, not your HP. Your spell card will break if you take at least as much damage as your card's durability. Overflow damage will count against your HP.judging from this rule (and from my spellcard) All spellcards have a lasting, passive effect. In full, these effects may be just as devastating as you say it is, but if we choose to lynch somebody we think is scum and they use this card as a last measure, well, it would only take two or three people who haven't voted that day to end the effect prematurely.
Assume u? is dead in this case.OH GOD. WHY DID THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN!? Oh, u?, you were always so kind...
Final Theory:
The Pesco Vigilante Set Up
If there's a Counterbomb option, and the Mafia has it, then ... what? Then we hope the mafia is inactive and doesn't notice that they are going to die when we lynch them?
but, if this will be the case, then it basically means that we'll be lynching probably only one person a day. And instead of an L-1 claim, we get a spellcard activation. This setup may actually be more balanced than we think.
Also, I just realized my entire posts is based on a post that just cut me. does anyone remember what I was going to say beforehand?
If there's a Counterbomb option, and the Mafia has it, then ... what? Then we hope the mafia is inactive and doesn't notice that they are going to die when we lynch them?
judging from this rule (and from my spellcard) All spellcards have a lasting, passive effect. In full, these effects may be just as devastating as you say it is, but if we choose to lynch somebody we think is scum and they use this card as a last measure, well, it would only take two or three people who haven't voted that day to end the effect prematurely.
--Use a Spell Card ability - This depends on the spell card :P
--While in a spell card trance the only ability you can use is the one associated with the spell card. You can, of course, choose not to target anyone.
but, if this will be the case, then it basically means that we'll be lynching probably only one person a day. And instead of an L-1 claim, we get a spellcard activation. This setup may actually be more balanced than we think.
that's an unusually high percentage of winning, and I can't help but feel that the setup wouldn't be that broken if we followed your plan. I'm not exactly sure what the numbers in your equation will be. I do agree we need to figure out what the mafia has in place of a nightkill, because if we assume it'stime related tick damage, then we should be pulling forward with as many possible lynches as we can so we can shoot them off quick and easy, but if it's one kill per lynch, we need to treat this more like a regular mafia game where we all agree to target one person at a time. I think it would be much safer to test Ramus's theory on the nightkill first TBH.
My apologies for attempting to get everyone on the same page so we can start effectively hunting scum. And "needless setup speculation"? I'd like to point out that it was YOUR reckless actions that caused us to go off on this tangent in the first place. See, you say you were justified in your actions by randomly shooting UK for the sake of discussion, but then you get angry at us for reacting to your random shot? Do you know how stupid this looks?
You proceed to drop the point a post later and say, well, nothing else before disappearing for a day and jumping on the Serp wagon.
Serp has taken 1 damage
Also, thanks for the hilarious misrep about my activity. My last post was nowhere near a day after the post before that.Given I saw you online several hours earlier and you said nothing...
I spent most of yesterday trying to organize the game so we could all think along the same lines, so we could more easily apply standard logic to the game. You spent most of yesterday having a catfight with UK, as I recall.
Also, thanks for the "people like UK" comment - until I bit him as well, only UK had done damage to Serp today. Why are you making so many obvious mistakes to make me look bad?The case stands that UK managed to make a sizable case on Serp. Why did you only produce one line of reasoning before hopping on?
Okay, apparently only one of us (out of 3?) managed to damage Serp yesterday. Hmm.UK and Drake had already used their actions for the day.
Given I saw you online several hours earlier and you said nothing...
The case stands that UK managed to make a sizable case on Serp. Why did you only produce one line of reasoning before hopping on?
That means he'll have taken 3 damage. If he would like, he should warn us if this takes him down a bit low.
I heavily dislike Serp's assertion that healing is anti-town. That entire post feels like he knows more about the game setup than we do.
Aside from that, Ramus hasn't done anything to make me feel easier on him. Since my tackle, all he's done is a tackle on Affinity, near useless set up speculation (that distracted me no less, shame on you!) and later another call for Affinity to respond. He hasn't done anything to rest my suspicion on him so far.
OH MY GOD! THREE DAMAGE?! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CRAZY, YOU SHOULD BE THINKING MORE CAREFULLY ABOUT THIS!
I know this is rather uncalled for, but it'll keep nagging at me if I don't post this exaggerated reenactment of UK's day two behavior right now.
that said, I understand what the case on Serpentaruis is, but I'm thinking he really is taking a bit too much damage for what it's worth. I want to let Serpentarius come on and explain for himself what I see in his posts, but if he takes any more damage without better reasoning, I will step in.
I'm only going to say things when I have something worthwhile to say. Commenting on your tirade vs UK (which is now turning into a tirade vs me, thanks for that) wouldn't do anyone any good. I also doubt you saw me on earlier than ~2PM EST, because I wasn't awake then.I saw that you were last active at 11am my time. T_T
UK made some good points. I added on to her case with a point she may have overlooked, and one I happened to find more significant. I seem to recall that's how we play Mafia around here.Points for patronisation, first of all. My main problem is given that most of your earlier content was setup speculation/attempted manipulation, I sort of expected a little more out of your first actual vote.
More so, what's wrong with my reason that I don't want anyone to die too soon because of a stupid accusations, like the UK and Roukanken fight. In fact, if you really don't like what I'm doing build a case on it instead of making tiny little posts once or twice a day.
I don't like UK for going nuts overone voteThree damage from one source for weak ass reasoning
with Serp/UK in third equal.
Furthermore, Serp has only stated a playstyle and he gets so much flak for it without any regards to his case on UK
Nietz: Okay good god WHAT.You will read Rule 3a and be glad. Healing myself is the only action right now I can be sure is helping a townie, I should have done it Day 1 or 2, but I was pissed for missing the chance and did it anyway.
You heal yourself FOR NO REASON WHEN YOU TOOK NO DAMAGE AT ALL?
I haven't changed my opinion on UK, a lot of OMGUS and a lot of RAGE to justify contradictory actions. As I said before, I think it's very likely that she's acting like that on purpose to get away with causing as much damage as possible.
As was going to talk Serp's case on UK and his idea, but the noticed they were exactly the same things I already said. He hasn't elaborated or explained his point further since then, and yet people are pilling up damage on him. The validity of his idea aside, I don't like how he's become such an easy target for saying something disagreeable.
Of these three, UK is probably the best choice for lynch for being, if not terribly scummy, outright anti-town.
Confetti edits added to Page 5.I think he was talking about people using character names (Nazrin, Etc.)
The only really important ones are:
Yes, I'm the one in lime green and Pesco's the one in yellow.
You can use different names for people as long as I know who you're talking about. The only person who has a different name is Zakeri IIRC.
What was your problem with me again?Healing UK without considering her alignment, the way you danced around answering Rou's question in post 66, maybe something else I might have forgotten. I think I also mentioned that you only really talk about Affinity.
Of all the above, I'd probably like to tackle Nietz first right now because his actions are so absurdly out of order. Edible is next, with Serp/UK in third equal.Neitz healed himself in response to the day phase changing, so I think he just got fed up with missing out on the action, and used the healing as a placeholder so he doesn't miss doing something today. It might be worth a tap since this says a lot about his involvement with the game.
Adhominim on Serpumm ... okay.
I haven't changed my opinion on UK, a lot of OMGUS and a lot of RAGE to justify contradictory actions. As I said before, I think it's very likely that she's acting like that on purpose to get away with causing as much damage as possible.I have to agree with this, considering evidence of this presented itself seven minutes earlier. was it really called for to describe a case on yourself as "Retarded"?
Hey, what are the odds of having 3 scum in a 9 player set up? Cause we got em in Serpy, Zak, and Nietz right thar ^-^
...okay, am I really seeing this?
could you at least ... you know ... provide reasoning for why we are all scum at the same time?
umm ... okay.
Quote from: ZakeriI thought it was implied that the people we would be putting in peril would be people we thought were scum. Of course, that just might be my common sense talking.Well, one would like to think that. But in a later post I quoted Serpy said he would go with random.
Quote from: RoukankenThe way you word this, it sounds like you want to pick these people at random. T_TIf we didn't have any evidence to go on, then I'd settle for it, but evidence always piles up one way or the other, so the point is moot.
While I agree with most things Serpentarius said, I'm not comfortable with the idea of dropping multiple players into low HP. I agree that it will make the game more agile but, not knowing how scum operates, I think it's too risky to leave a lot of potential targets around that could be easily taken out by them. Specially early in the game when suspicions on players are not yet so well established. It might be a better idea later on when we have more of a clue about the scum modus operandi and which players are more scummy/confirmed.
Compounded with the fact that spellcards are a one shot deal. So we only get to guess what they can do before they go off. Think of it as a random effect NUKE. This makes killing someone and surviving crapshoot unless it's done fast, meaning that if we weaken someone, they may find themselves down to one option of using the spellcard. And note, that both townies and scum will have a reason to do this, but only scum will have 100% accuracy for hitting someone they know is an enemy. Thus, the pressure tactic doesn't work in this set up.
That said, Serp saying 'randomly weakening people is okay if we have no leads' when we've already got PLENTY TO WORK WITH is also ringing alarms, along with attacking UK who is (no offense) a pretty easy target today.
I think it would be much safer to test Ramus's theory on the nightkill first TBH.
Setup speculation is nice, but really we need to go about finding out what is actually happening behind the scenes rather than spouting random theories.
Since my tackle, all he's done is a tackle on Affinity, near useless set up speculation (that distracted me no less, shame on you!) and later another call for Affinity to respond.
I agree with Serp's 'no-healing' playstyle at the moment.And...despite this, you have absolutely no problem with Nietz self-healing at the start of the day? Delicious paradox is delicious.
You will read Rule 3a and be glad. Healing myself is the only action right now I can be sure is helping a townie, I should have done it Day 1 or 2, but I was pissed for missing the chance and did it anyway.No. No, no, NO. This is horrible reasoning right now. This is being able to remove votes from the tally, and promptly removing votes from yourself (when in no danger whatsoever) because 'it's the only thing I can do that's sure to help a townie'.
There's no way to really refute this, is there? But can you prove it?Translation: "I admit that my argument contains a good deal of OMGUS and RAEG, but because you can't PROVE that I'm not being genuine you can't do anything to me! ^_^"
Please further your explanation of this, scummy boy.I also adore how you suddenly decide that Nietz is scum from, well, literally nowhere. As in besides you saying he's scum here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3088.msg131594#msg131594), you made no mention of him anywhere at all beforehand. Are you honestly trying to argue that 'attacking me for making a really stupid rage OMGUS case against Rou makes you obvscum' or are you just desperation bussing?
Neitz healed himself in response to the day phase changing, so I think he just got fed up with missing out on the action, and used the healing as a placeholder so he doesn't miss doing something today.Given that he's already explained himself as doing it simply because it'll help out a Townie, I don't think this reasoning really works.
@Ramus:
I agree with Serp's 'no-healing' playstyle at the moment. And lol at building cases because that's what I have been doing all along. Rou hit UK. UK at that time announced her intention to hit Rou 3 times, so what makes UK better than Roukanken or even less scummy? Your view is to simply cancel out their actions so as to make UK have a better chance IF she's town, but your action has no scumhunting value attached to it at all, making you give the impression that you are scum trying to skip on the scumhunting. This is further excaberated by the facts that
1. You merely healed UK without explanation until prompted, not commenting on how their catfight was one.
2. The only one you find suspicious now is me, and this is bordering on OMGUS since, well, UK voted Rou and Rou voted for UK for no good reasons on D1, and you do not see them as scummy at all. You have absolutely no opinions on anyone else.
Drake is better as he fits neither of the two points above. I also agree with what Zakeri said, that he sounded more genuine, though I'm not entirely happy with him either.
So, uh, what's your proposed alternative? Don't lynch anyone at all?
Why don't you heal Edible since Rou tackled him? After all, it's 'early' in the game, and you don't have a problem with him (or anyone else except me for that matter).
Regarding the "healing = anti-town" comment, there's a reason I prefixed that with "very generally speaking." There are situations where healing is a good thing. The beginning of the game is not one of them. In a standard mafia game with nine living players, it takes five votes in a single day to lynch someone. It looks like most players start with over half a dozen HP. Dropping a few hurts on people we find even vaguely scummy just puts them in the running to get lynched, and makes sure that everyone must weigh in either for or against that lynch. Healing them to full effectively removes them from danger, which should only be done if you have good reason to think them town - and no, simple statistical likelihood doesn't count. As to the point that I look scummy for actually acting on my setup speculation, that seems like the sort of point calculated to scare the town into inaction.
I hardly even know what to say. I can only read this as deliberate misrep, and I can't imagine how anyone could honestly see that statement as scummy. UncertainKitten is trying too hard to scrape up scummy points from decent statements, and if she had just called her tackle a pressure tactic, I might have called it a fair point, but her rhetoric alternates between acting like she really wants to see me lynched, and trying to avoid contradicting her earlier point about not bringing anyone's health low without decisive proof of scumminess. I don't see any townie intent here. People parroting this point like it actually makes sense aren't much better.
So, we have UncertainKitten making a case on me based on disliking my strategy in Hurt and Heal games. Never mind that I'm far from the only person to believe in this strategy - since I put my neck out there making my stance explicit, she would have you believe that I'm most likely to be scum among all the players. Then, despite her tentative claim that her case on me isn't that strong in 123, she pushes my bandwagon into the lead when it becomes clear that others are actually buying her BS... Yet when called out on it, in 155, she agrees that I'm taking too much damage. Even after she's the one who attacked me last. :V And now, she tries to disuade people from agreeing with my strategy by claiming that it makes them obvscumbuddies. I have a hard time seeing any of this as sincere case, and that means it's a scummy tactic. Hence, I'm willing to lynch UK.
UK - Once again, tank tackles aren't that bad. You're not dead, you're not dying, and other people are attacking you right now, so why are you still coming back to me? I don't even understand why you're continuing this point anymore given that you have said several times that you think it's a nulltell.
Translation: "I admit that my argument contains a good deal of OMGUS and RAEG, but because you can't PROVE that I'm not being genuine you can't do anything to me! ^_^"
This line alone is sending UK back up my suspicion list.
I also adore how you suddenly decide that Nietz is scum from, well, literally nowhere. As in besides you saying he's scum here, you made no mention of him anywhere at all beforehand. Are you honestly trying to argue that 'attacking me for making a really stupid rage OMGUS case against Rou makes you obvscum' or are you just desperation bussing?
If we're going all the way with UK today, I'll lend a hand to the cause. These last few posts from her have killed off the last doubts I had about her.
UK's denial of the standard points that have been put forward here and the 'Nietz, Serp, and Zak are scum and I don't care about what they are saying about people are than me' attitude makes poor Aki rather sad, and this is rather deserving of a vote. Yoshi has also entered my radar with that awful 'agreeing with UK Serp is bad' stance that he had at the end of D2. Thus,
Okay, UK's know attempting to play the smart ass in which you post clever one liners and get an internet accent. Can I request a reason why you're doing that UK?
Of course, this is counterbalanced by your rather silly call for people to heal UK if they thought that your action was wrong, but oh well. Also, way to go 180 on what you said about Serp without answering his counters, which is again, standard Rou play.Firstly, there's a difference between healing someone who you feel is being unfairly attacked late in the day, and healing yourself early in the day therefore removing your ability to help out in discussion. Also his whole 'I was going to contribute but it's too late now so I'm not going to bother commenting' reeks of laziness, which is anti-Town.
FURTHER, I know my reasoning was weak, but it was the best I had.And you're mad at how I attacked you for...weak reasoning. Hm.
-UncertainKitten is making a case disliking your cavalier theory that taking people down to low health is a GOOD IDEA with unknown scum abilities. Edible actually had a very good point that you seem to know more about the set up than you should.To be fair, this is verging on paranoia. This is like 'what if scum have hidden votes, we can't let people get ANY VOTES AT ALL'. It was the seeming randomness of it that worried me, not the actual process of weakening people.
-UncertainKitten will appeal to meta and state that she would not have much trouble finding scummy statements to frame people with were she looking for them, as evidenced by last game.Okay, seriously. WHAT IS THIS. Are you trying to argue that if you were scum you'd actually be doing more attacking?
I can't! So I'm merely counterattacking with the fact he can't prove it and I'd prefer more solid evidence.Well, the easy way to solve this problem is by not RAGING, isn't it. T_T
You know I bus far better than that.After the last game, implying that anyone in MotK is competent (myself included) is probably the worst mistake I could make. This bleeds 'too scummy to be scum'.
ctually, I wasn't very lucid then. So I'll conveniently backstep and go back to Serpy Zak like I was originally thinking. And before you say something about how I've never mentioned Zakeri before, I'll freely admit you're right and say so?'Admitting my mistakes before I make them makes it okay! ^_^'
2. Just because I haven't posted all of the people who I think are scummy doesn't mean I don't find anyone scummy. Now, if you can give a reason to actually make those thoughts public, then sure, I'll do so, but understand, I don't feel much need to give possible scum headway knowing that I'm the target to go for. AKA, don't play your hand until you know you're ready.
I've already explained this one. You put many bullets into (tackle?) the person quickly so that that person died before having a chance to off one of us. Which means you'll have to kill off people all at once to avoid these problems.
And Serp, when did you stop being Mafian?
Thank you for clarifying. I didn't really view your statement like this originally. So your basic strategy is to keep people in the red zone unless we're confident they're town, which is kind of the opposite approach of the one I would take - keeping everyone healthy and announcing intent to assault once we've discussed our target for the "day". I'm willing to try either one, but it looks like the former is more natural progression for this setup, whereas mine is trying to cement it into more standard rules of mafia.
Actually, it wasn't really misrep. At best, misread. And no, I don't see any alternation. I'd like you lynched eventually. I'd like a better idea of the set up before that and rather NOT have you spellcard off on us and kill a townie.
You two are the only two I see rallying directly for Serp's cause, as well as attacking me for attacking him. It's a classic chainsaw.So basically, you make a case on Serpentarius that largely consists of completely misrepresenting something Serpentarius said, and anyone who notices that you basically just twisted his words around to force him to sound scummy is automatically Serpentarius's Scum Buddy, whether or not the Town:Scum ratio is balanced.
So, we have UncertainKitten making a case on me based on disliking my strategy in Hurt and Heal games. Never mind that I'm far from the only person to believe in this strategyOh, don't worry about that. She's got that covered.
Zakeri, why this change?I knew someone would bring that up, which is why I put what I said in parenthesis. I admit, I will get caught up in the moment when it comes to setup speculation, but the point still stands that Ramus does not seem interested enough in finding and lynching, well, anyone besides the first person who targeted him.
The Case on SerpentariusYour first point is basically that Edible had a good point
Honestly, it's a statement like this that makes me think you're town. I'll state that I really hope you don't repeat last games performance and get yourself rightly lynched as a townie.Would it be too rude to call this out on appeal to Naivete?
Withholding your opinions is anti-town on multiple levels. Firstly, for all we know, you could get OHKO'd any moment, and whatever analysis you've done on the game so far would then be lost. Secondly, if you don't list who you find scummy and your reasons why, then the town has fewer clues to determine whether you're town or scum. Thirdly, if you don't push for the lynches of people you find scummy, and resist the lynches of those you don't find scummy, then even if you're a townie, you're just dead weight, i.e. vigbait.
This may be Hurt and Heal, but that doesn't mean you can just sit back and expect to be called helpful to the town. We're still playing mafia.
3. Serp: I'm not sure how you can agree with me on not keeping everyone in red but not agree with taking down someone quickly. If someone is down to zero HP, I'm pretty sure they can't activate a spellcard. While they may be able to talk before the end of the day, that person is pretty dead. Basically, you're on the list for being a logic bomb.
Also, you failed to answer a perfectly simple question, so can you try again? When did you stop being a Mafian?
And you're mad at how I attacked you for...weak reasoning. Hm.
To be fair, this is verging on paranoia. This is like 'what if scum have hidden votes, we can't let people get ANY VOTES AT ALL'. It was the seeming randomness of it that worried me, not the actual process of weakening people.
Okay, seriously. WHAT IS THIS. Are you trying to argue that if you were scum you'd actually be doing more attacking?
Well, the easy way to solve this problem is by not RAGING, isn't it. T_T
After the last game, implying that anyone in MotK is competent (myself included) is probably the worst mistake I could make. This bleeds 'too scummy to be scum'.
'Admitting my mistakes before I make them makes it okay! ^_^'
This makes no sense. If you think I'm scum, you should be pushing to lynch me. If anything, lynching me slowly instead of quickly only gives me a larger window of opportunity to fire off my spellcard. And I don't see how we can learn anything else about the setup without lynching someone, so shouldn't you be pushing to get it over with already?
So basically, you make a case on Serpentarius that largely consists of completely misrepresenting something Serpentarius said, and anyone who notices that you basically just twisted his words around to force him to sound scummy is automatically Serpentarius's Scum Buddy, whether or not the Town:Scum ratio is balanced.
I'm agree with the Case on UK now, as if it wasn't glaringly obvious.
Your first point is basically that Edible had a good point
Your second point is actually just the first point worded in a way that would get hate on you, so there's no reason to include it.
The rest is just defense, half of which is both meta and brought up by you, so it is subject to wifom.
Would it be too rude to call this out on appeal to Naivete?
I'm willing to throw my full weight behind a UK lynch today.
2. UK: Recently anyway, I've seen a lack of effort at analyzing the situation, scum hunting, or even getting past the Roukanken tackle. She's a bitch.
It's not helping that Mafia in general tends to be a little bit confusing for me...
1. Why do you think we shouldn't lynch/tackle you? Do not factor whether or not you're a townie or mafian into this. Why it's a mistake on the town's part.
2. Are you ready to rage quit?
3. Who do you suspect to be scum and why?
There's no way to really refute this, is there? But can you prove it?I'm not a mind-reader to prove exactly why you are doing this, but your actions themselves are plain for anyone to see.
No. No, no, NO. This is horrible reasoning right now. This is being able to remove votes from the tally, and promptly removing votes from yourself (when in no danger whatsoever) because 'it's the only thing I can do that's sure to help a townie'.Look, you need to stop holding on to that hits=votes analogy, even if it's a comfortable one. You can't expect to win the game if you are playing the wrong game to begin with. If the other players openly decide that I (or anyone else) should die, self-healing it's not gonna help. But having a higher HP can potentially help if scum has some other damaging ability. Besides, as I said before my tackle is somewhat detrimental to my healing afterwards.
My point is that the Town objective is to kill Mafiosi. The Mafia objective is to not die. Guess which of these causes healing helps out more. T_TOnce again, are we talking about the same game?
The Mafia's goal is to kill the innocents, while the Town's goal is to kill the Mafia.
Whether you actually are pissed of or no (and you could be as either town or scum anyway), the obvious result still is of hiding awfully anti-town play behind player meta. In case you are genuinely in a bad mood streak, well it's too bad, because as much as find bitchy UK to be charming in a way, it's still leaning heavily in the scummy behavioral territory.
Hmm...good question.
I've already said Serpy, but I'm rethinking that potential. Zak also rubs me the wrong way but that might just be reactionaryness. Nietz as well to an extent, as I said.
I think I need to reread and am not sure when I feel like doing it. I'll try to do it in a timely fashion though. Today or tomorrow ish. I have a challenge to do today, don't I?
Look, you need to stop holding on to that hits=votes analogy, even if it's a comfortable one. You can't expect to win the game if you are playing the wrong game to begin with. If the other players openly decide that I (or anyone else) should die, self-healing it's not gonna help. But having a higher HP can potentially help if scum has some other damaging ability. Besides, as I said before my tackle is somewhat detrimental to my healing afterwards. Once again, are we talking about the same game?
Please do so. Playing the sane townie leader role only works if I have people willing to stop being argument for a moment and actually think like a hive mind.
One: My reasoning was stronger, while still weakOne: Your reasoning was faulty, at best.
Two: I deal one damage, you deal three
Three: I said earlier that the reason I was irritated at your weak reasoning was the fact that you should have three times better reasoning if you are going to attack someone for three times the damage.
ok? Am I supposed to say something to this?You don't really have to, I was just arguing your case on Serp. Either a better case or a point ceded would suffice.
Huh? Elaborate? It's more of an appeal to emotion actually.It's a subset of AtE, Appeal to Naivete is just the term I made up for scum sometimes butter up a townie to win over their vote. I'm still not sure if that's what's happening, but it looks disjointed how you suddenly become moe moe to Rou in that post.
Two: Your attack was the third one on Serp. Your attack dealt three damage.
Three: as evidenced by number one, Rou's attack was more justified. As a corollery to point two, your reasoning should also have been three times better.
Four: Can we please stop referencing Rou's Random vote? I know "He keeps bringing it up" but you really have no good points left to use in that argument. If you just ignore it, people will forget about it, and you might actually seem less scummy.
You don't really have to, I was just arguing your case on Serp. Either a better case or a point ceded would suffice.
It's a subset of AtE, Appeal to Naivete is just the term I made up for scum sometimes butter up a townie to win over their vote. I'm still not sure if that's what's happening, but it looks disjointed how you suddenly become moe moe to Rou in that post.
Now perhaps it's just me UK, but the best way to defend yourself is to track down a Mafian, not just constantly defend yourself. AKA great offense makes a perfect defense.
So, you want me to stop raging but...you do misreps like that in a condescending manner that would almost INTENTIONALLY incite me? gj, gj.When you're the one spewing utter garbage, I have the right to be irritated if you ask me.
Oh, I agree. I just really don't feel like rereading right now. I said I'd reread soon. I will. Either tonight or tomorrow.Buying time. A few hours ago you were saying that you should be lynched, now you're insisting on a few days longer. Make your mind up.
Besides, as I said before my tackle is somewhat detrimental to my healing afterwards.When did you mention this, exactly?
Buying time. A few hours ago you were saying that you should be lynched, now you're insisting on a few days longer. Make your mind up.
When you're the one spewing utter garbage, I have the right to be irritated if you ask me.
Meh, I've waited long enough, and I'm not convinced the spellcard is going to be helping town as much as she holds for.
##Tackle: UncertainKitten
For being a big, fat meanie-head :p
UK just won herself a new level of failure.
Let's see here.
Damage done to her so far = 4.
Plus me and Serp makes it 8 minimum, and she apparently has 2 left.
So 3 away from 10 is not nearly half health, and now she's pulling out a spellcard and intimidating us not to attack her. I say this is a good enough reason to just blitz her, myself given that she's contradicting herself all over the shop. >_>
If you all DON'T want that going off tomorrow, you need to figure out how much damage it can take.
Okay, UK, what does the card do?
4. Who would you point that spellcard at if you got a chance to shoot the load off?
5. Who would you point that spellcard at if it's not Roukanken?
EDIT: Okay, nice. Pick a lurker, either Edible or Affinity. You know who I'd pick.
6. Is that what the spellcard actually does?
Oh, btw, I screwed up.
I can't activate my card yet.
As such, I am at one life. Think VERY carefully about killing me, please, if I'm not already dead.
Umm ... Fuck.
If it's an investigation of some sort, then it really really would have been nice to know that before I attacked. Especially since you just now said your activation doesn't start until the phase turn.
This is a bigger screw up than you realize. :-[
Don't tell me you hit for two damage...
My attack is one, however if I fulfill a certain condition, I can double my attack for the day. So, there is in fact a tangible difference between when I vote to pressure and when I vote to lynch.
A morally ambiguous situation in which making the wrong choice can be utterly detrimental to the town? One where if I do stand up for UK and something goes badly, I shall be a martyr of no cause? A damned townie? Or where I can finally prove that healing may in fact be what truly helps the town? Where my efforts in saving UK will ultimately lead to the first Mafia kill?
##Heal UK if spellcard does not activate.
UK has taken 1 damageT_T
We've got all of the time in the world, I can wait two days to see what UK pulls out.Why are we so sure we have all the time in the world, exactly? T_T
UK's latest reasoning is bullshit. It implies that if she's scum she'd be telling the TRUTH about whatever info she got. So yeah, I'd still rather we lynched her ASAP, but no-one listens to me. T_T
When the alternative is getting a scum for nothing? Yeah that's bad.
Forgive me for not blindly wanting to follow the cop. T_T
Why are we so sure we have all the time in the world, exactly? T_T
UK's latest reasoning is bullshit. It implies that if she's scum she'd be telling the TRUTH about whatever info she got. So yeah, I'd still rather we lynched her ASAP, but no-one listens to me. T_T
EDIT: PUT ON THE SPELLCARD IDIOT.
alright, so things turned out like this after all.
I'm starting to calm down now. I don't think we should lynch UK until we get an investigation from her. If she ends up being town, we know we have an accurate result, and if she ends up being scum, then we can safely ignore it.
for now, I'm taking a break. I've tired myself out for today worrying.
Why is everyone assuming we're getting an investigation, exactly? Rather than her, say, charging a vig shot?
Also, people, do some math. Total damage UK's taken so far = 4 + 1 + 6 = 11. And ALL of that was before she activated her spellcard, so she's talking bull.
Yeah, I'm thinking that we should at least keep UncertainKitten alive long enough to report a result. Even if she's scum and this spellcard is actually a powerful attack, I'm not in danger of dying unless its damage is really high, and I doubt that anyone else is in danger either. Since we've basically picked UncertainKitten to be lynched, I think we shouldn't bring anyone else to low HP 'till this issue is resolved.
Rou: We have confirmation as of this morning that UK has six damage on her.
Why is everyone assuming we're getting an investigation, exactly? Rather than her, say, charging a vig shot?
Also, people, do some math. Total damage UK's taken so far = 4 + 1 + 6 = 11. And ALL of that was before she activated her spellcard, so she's talking bull.
Rou: We have confirmation as of this morning that UK has six damage on her.Oh...wait. That's a tallied count? I thought it was just the damage/healing done over the day. :/
Oh...wait. That's a tallied count? I thought it was just the damage/healing done over the day. :/
Oh wow, so you technically get invincibility until the end of the day. That's generally bad for town but not in this case.
I don't heal for two. Alas, despite being the kind of person I am, I only get to heal for 1 HP. But who cares about the math. You're alive, yes?
Let's get those votes in people:
Affinity: 1 (Ramus)
Serp: 1 (UK?)
Who do you want investigated?
I don't think Ramus should volunteer the information about how much he heals for...despite the fact he's breadcrumbed it pretty much all game if I'm reading him right.
We'll call it obfuscating stupidity (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObfuscatingStupidity) and not me trying to purposefully invoke tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InvokedTrope) or shamelessly referencing pop culture (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObligatoryTropeOverdosedReference) so that you pay more attention to those actions instead of me (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard) discovering who the scum are and who the townie are (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NotSoSmallRole) and ultimately ending the game by uncovering to the public who the Mafia consists of (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheReveal), gunning them down (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill), and therefore being awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/CrowningMomentOfAwesome?from=Main.CrowningMomentOfAwesome) with some nice rock in the background (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/CrowningMusicOfAwesome?from=Main.CrowningMusicOfAwesome). In so, I will prove that I am a harmless badass (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassPacifist).
In the end you have to decide. Are you trying to kill anti town players in a 9 player set up, or are you trying to actually find scum? Because anti-town != scummy, and I advise you to consider that difference before I'm finished off.Maybe the right term is anti-play rather than anti-town, since - if I remember well - last time you acted like this you not only were scum but actually were caught because of it.
So, therefore statistics say that no one will get shot ever until someone is actually shot in which then we haul ass.
Maybe the right term is anti-play rather than anti-town, since - if I remember well - last time you acted like this you not only were scum but actually were caught because of it.
The point is kinda moot now anyway, since you claim to be ready to die after using your spellcard. I'm a slave to curiosity so I'm willing to let you use it. But for what you've said, I don't believe this spellcard is likely to reveal alignment. I also think you'd better use it soon to show it's not an excuse to buy time.
Given my play, my lynch is the proper decision. I acknowledge this. The best I can do is try to be helpful til I die.
I get bad vibes from this post. Since when does UK give up, like... ever?
Unless you're stalling for time or something, I see no reason for you to not go ahead with your spellcard idea - we have nothing to lose. Assuming we lynch you anyway, I think investigating either Affinity or Ramus would be your best bet, since they've kinda been in their own little world. Scanning Rou would be silly, and I'm feeling fewer scum vibes from Serp.
And how does something about a player not reveal alignment?If it works like you implied, I would expect it much more likely to reveal any other of the player stats. An alignment-revealing effect would be pretty useless if the character had been picked up by a scum player.
If it works like you implied, I would expect it much more likely to reveal any other of the player stats. An alignment-revealing effect would be pretty useless if the character had been picked up by a scum player.
He's also a jerk.
She's since blown it out of proportion to get justification for it. Roukanken I find townie out of repetition, UK I find neutral for the lack of doing much besides attacking Roukanken. I've seen both town and scum focus on one target using circular logic and ad hominem. I don't really see reason to bat an eye towards either right now.
You and I have different interpretations of early game. At this point, it's a few days in and at least people are grounded where they are in their opinions. This is not early game since people are reasoning things instead of shouting at UK and Roukanken for their little drama. And to be honest, looking at my own character, 3 HP is a lot of damage and had me a bit taken a back for at the beginning. However, now I can see it's not all that much as apparently people have sufficient HP to survive some hits and more so, people are being cautious about how they're using their tackles.
Also, he sounded suspiciously like you're actually complaining when people begin to take his advice. He suggested getting people down into dangerous levels, right? And yet, by his own admission in a more recent post, he isn't even that close to dying! So why does it sound like he actually has a PROBLEM when people are attacking him?
Hm... That's interesting... A range where the investigation will kill you? If both of you have been telling the truth, then that's hardly the case. She said that it dealt TWO points of damage. There's a rather large gap (as in, more than one point) between that and "really high" which is what you said that the damage would have to be to kill you. So unless you've been misleading us or UK is saying that her damage is less than it actually is, I don't think it's likely to be the case. And remember that UK is playing freaking NAZRIN, how much damage do you think she'll be doing either way? It's not like she drives a tank~
. . .
Also, on your point of if the spellcard would kill you... How does it apply now even if your health was pathetically low? Are you expecting people to change their votes? There's four on Edible, two on you and Affinity. Unless UK completely disregards votes, I don't think it's gonna apply <_<
As far as "having decided who's going to be lynched next" UK only needs like... What, two attacks to take her out? Heck, just O
NE more tank tackle from Rou would be pretty much guaranteed to take her out at this point. What's wrong with having a second person available to lynch if need be? Or are you saying that you can't POSSIBLY be worth keeping at anywhere remotely approaching danger, despite saying that it would have been a good idea to keep multiple people around critical?
Or it could be him activating a card to hit Town after he gets revealed as scum.
Either way, really not much we can do until the phase change hits. -_-
People that haven't done anything yet can get in a quick action while I tally the books and sort out shit
Honestly, this could be anything - Scum UK killing off Town!Edible before her death, Town UK targeting Scum Edible and him reacting, Scum UK getting Townie cred by picking off Scum Edible...
Given this, making a move in any direction and being wrong is probably going to be disastrous, and it's a WIFOM of the highest calibre. I know I'm probably chickening out at the worst time, but I can't attack either of you with confidence right now.
I'd rather not be sitting around at half life.
...I don't know where to begin on this. -_-
At any rate, why should my HP have changed?I was thinking that if you were Town and Edible was scum, he'd have taken the opportunity to activate his card and kill you off since he was at risk of getting his affiliation exposed.
I agree that we should probably keep UK alive for now. And Edible wasn't at full health... But still PRETTY FREAKING HIGH! Damage count says he'd taken 3 damage, which means... Wait, his max HP was TEN?! I think we should probably try to get rid of Edible's spellcard before he does anything with it...
However, since I also think that we shouldn't kill off UK just yet, it would be a good idea to reduce the chance of her being finished off.
##Give Nazrin more cheese
I was thinking that if you were Town and Edible was scum, he'd have taken the opportunity to activate his card and kill you off since he was at risk of getting his affiliation exposed.
I didn't think it was best to leave it where literally ANYONE could OHKO her. She's still not a threat either way with her spellcard gone. Unless I'm misjudging things, (which, admittedly, is quite possible_ a lot of people here wouldn't mind her being finished off either way, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone took it into their own hands. Making it so that she has more than 1 health while still quite low means that it's less likely for a single person to simply decide to finish her off.
Sorry if you all think that leaving her with 2 HP is too much <_<;
Edible has 7 HP.Predictable, but still disappointing.
Most useless
spellcard
EVER
Just...kill me now :(
How much reduction, Edible?
No offense, UK, but I also think you're the best target to be put to sleep, so to speak. The only reason you were kept alive yesterday was due to your cop-esque claim.
How big is your spellcard's shield? I think we have to break it before we can feed you the last cheese you'll be eating in this game.
Edible, two points.
1. If this card allowed you to take less damage in general overall, why didn't you activate it on Day 1? Logically that'd be the best tactic.
2. More obviously, isn't a card that specialises in survival notably scum-oriented?
I don't like this claim. Given that spellcards are basically shields anyway, saying that's all it does feel particularly off to me.
Serp has taken 3 damage
In short: ##Wrap spider in own web (Tackle Serp)
##Heal Serpentarius
Serp has taken 5 damage
@Mods: Can spellcards be targeted by private message, or must all commands be posted in public?
Something hurt me. It's either a scum ability, or it's a spellcard.See? That's exactly why I was against keeping people with low health.
How much damage do you typically do? We can confirm this by hitting Nietz who's been racking up some extra HP. I doubt he'll be in danger if you even do 4 damage, he's two over the top.Meh, my initial HP wasn't so great. But I guess I wouldn't mind doing this to test Drake, but if he's lying about his damage he'll be found sooner or later anyway.
1. If this card allowed you to take less damage in general overall, why didn't you activate it on Day 1? Logically that'd be the best tactic.
Can't ascertain that each character didn't have a Town card and a scum card, and the one they got was relevant to their affiliation. After all, a scum player getting a cop role is just plain stupid, which is why people were willing to go along with your claim.
From what Pesco was telling me the first time I tried declaring, they can be targetted by PM.
Wait, what? ... Can you elaborate on this? o_O
Why in the world would you have tried to declare in private? When did this conversation come up?
I think UK just slipped.
I'm all for finishing off UK, to be honest. We don't know how this game works, and I think a few flips are in order even at the expense of a townie (if she's one), so that the game can move on. Because... telling us HP is not really useful information and can be attributed to either town or scum. Kind of funny that HP is gold, though. In lieu of her past actions, I think this is the right course of action unless he does something townie (as opposed to killing her 'only' when she does something wrong).
Spell cards are declared publicly.
I don't understand SDrake's question.
See? That's exactly why I was against keeping people with low health.
@u?: Two clarifications:1) No, although this is something that will be considered in future games.
- Can players opt to end their spellcards premeturely?
- Just to be sure, spellcards do or do not act on a target the same Day they're declared (or it varies according to each)?
Anyone else noticed that this game has basically devolved into 'reading the power roles'? T_T
I'm fine with shooting UK should the need arise. I'm slightly worried this whole thing between those two was an act, anyway. :/
I'll leave it until later in the day, though.
EDIT: So wait, did UK actually activate that power that comes with her spellcard or not? Was that a slip up on Pesco's part? SO FRICKIN' CONFUSED.
Anyway, since a few things have been cleared up, Roukanken, why do you think Edible and UK are working together past the fact that they both might be scum?Uh...that's EXACTLY why I think they're working together. This whole spellcard drama might be an elaborate act to separate them from one another, and it's interesting that as soon as I pointed out that Edible's card looked rather scummy UK came to his defense.
Uh...that's EXACTLY why I think they're working together. This whole spellcard drama might be an elaborate act to separate them from one another, and it's interesting that as soon as I pointed out that Edible's card looked rather scummy UK came to his defense.
UK: The reason I don't like that statement is that you seem so certain that this isn't possible, in the same way you insisted that there wasn't any sort of Mafia kill. Sounds like additional knowledge to me.
So yeah, to hell with it. You survived on your copclaim, and now that has proven to be false. Indeed, on top of your screaming as soon as you were attacked, believing you're really a character with a crummy card like that who also only has 1 attack/heal with only 8 HP is, in all, rather hard to believe.
##Tank Tackle: UncertainKitten
Also, UK, your accusation doesn't make any sense. If I were scum trying to get you lynched, wouldn't I stick with the reasons that people had already accepted rather than try to go for more?
And if you end up flipping Town I'll be angrier at u? than anything. I mean come on, this setup has me in a tank hitting three times harder than other people with added damage resistance, and I'm meant to believe you have nothing to make up for it?
WIFOM. Perhaps you are feeling like it's not quite good enough. Not that you'd admit it. If you were scum, you'd know I was town and you'd feel more compelled to bring up more and more "reasons" for me to die.Despite the fact that more or less everyone is chiming in? Making a further effort to incriminate you would only draw unnecessary attention, IMO.
Despite the fact that more or less everyone is chiming in? Making a further effort to incriminate you would only draw unnecessary attention, IMO.
Then again, apparently I can't defend myself because everything boils down to WIFOM. >_>
Serp keeps trying to get Rou to tackle UK to break her spell card... When I'm pretty sure it's already broken and it's going to finish her off!
D:
So much... umm, so yeah, I'm going to be doing some reading. Regardless, that's a contribution, and I'm kicking off kitten until I get done with that list and all of the posts it points to. That probably won't be in this Mafia day, so for lack of anything better to do, I've been sitting at 2 HP less than full, so...
##Lick own wounds
Nietz 68: So what?
Drake 58: I fail to see how this is an indicator.
Rou 79: Strikes me as pissed off more than anything, which really gives no clarification.
Edible: What else does your card do besides give you +1 defense?
Mostly follow the leader makes it easier to blend in. He could potentially be scum.Ah, good point. I'll be sure to keep that in mind.
I have a feeling he's actually scum utilizing his meta. I've basically gone through what I had trouble with. A fuckton of inconsistency, the whole thing earlier I mentioned about how he seems to be trying to pile on more to justify his attacks, and further his tunneling and desperate desire to justify his initial attack on me. It feels like there's a lot of insincerity.Ironically, you vehemently denied when I accused you of using your meta.
Edible 291: What made you think I was multishot?
Affinity 69 also bothers me. I don't think the reasoning was all that sound. Especially since he seems to play both sides at the end.
Affinity 158 is bad. He acts like my declaration was just as bad as actually doing it.
Affinity 165 feels like baiting. Especially since, yanno, Ramus CAN'T do more than one action
Affinity 256: I want to know why fluidity of opinions is bad?
Affinity 316 feels rather bad. He's disregarding general town consensus
point about Rou being handwaved
Oh hey, Edible, I'm calling bullshit on that. I demand to know what else your spellcard does. Now.
The previous damage count has been independently verified and is accurate.
All damage counts are final tallies of how many HP each player has gained/lost overall.
Drake 90: I assume that means truthful, in which sure, if he did that based on emotion. Else, he may be acting and using pathos (AKA AtE or the pathetic fallacy) to clear himself. I'll assume the former for now.
Rou's 91: Again, metaing, Roukanken is frustrated by past games and is angry with already being under fire in this one. Still going to call it non-indicator.
Zak 99: Vague words, what do you mean by forced?
Zak 104: Not that subtle. He does essentially join Roukanken and helps to end the slap fight. However, until you tell me what you mean by forced in the previous post, I can't comment much here.
Ironically, you vehemently denied when I accused you of using your meta.
And also ironically, I had the same idea on Rou. Invasion Mafia clearly showed that he's very well capable of using craplogic as a townie, so he could be using it now under a meta disguise. The thing is, I don't think is likely for him to actually try pull it off on purpose (yes, I do think you'd be more likely to do it than him), so I can't really base any concrete suspicion on him yet. Not before your flip, in any case.
And yes, while I though Ramus' idea of keeping UK alive was worthwhile, at this point I don't think it's really going to work. Seems we really need to get UK out of the way or the game won't progress, most of the cases around are linked to her flip.
Your spellcard ability allowed you to target a user to deal damage, right? I'm pretty sure the rules mentioned somewhere that you could use that ability as long as your spellcard persisted, or something, as it replaced your normal attacks. Thus I was under the impression that you could target more than one person over the life of your spellcard, assuming you were actually a cop.
Well, UK, you may live by virtue of no one else being around to kill you.
Zak 114: His argument is better for attacking since he gives sufficient words for it. Despite this, the attack against me is one paragraph long, and even then, three lines long. Every time someone has attacked it me, it was with little justification and that drives me up a wall.
Nietz 128: Ah... no comment.
Elaborate on the second part.
Since I'm not a very utilitarian person, I disagree with you on this. You would also be calling most of town 'bad' in a way because this is what most of the town think; and primarily why you are liable to be lynched soon. Intent is just as, if not, more important than the consequences of your actions because some factors that bring those intentions to realization are rather left to chance (especially in this game), but your intentions are clear and solid the moment you utter them. As for going back on Nietz, isn't that calling me out on the fluidity of opinions?
What? He healed you because Rou though you had bad reasons for attacking him and yet feels that you are town. He did not heal Edible, without even elaborating why even though these two situations are similar, even going so far to say things which are irrelevant to the topic at hand, about 'the playstyle changing' and stuff when the main focus was Roukanken's actions.
Idea goes that changing your opinions when there has been a minimal change in that guy's actions screams insecurity. Scum, who have to go to lengths to fake an opinion, is thus
Worst point ever. So... by not doing what town is doing... I'm scummy? What? This is my view about you, that flips are needed and are beneficial for town, which was justified. And you don't, for example, call Zakeri out for agreeing with me... it seems that you are skimming without analysis. Might as well say that I was scum for attacking Ramus from the very beginning.
It's his choice not to reply despite two or more instances, and labeling those two or more instances as 'handwaves' is a rather dubious action.
1. Dislike me all you want for keeping people alive to talk, but I'm currently finding that we're making plenty of progress right now. For example, Edible. I honestly didn't have a clue about him before due to a lack of defining posts, now though, I believe I at least have a trail. And besides, fluidity of positions is what defines my playstyle. The best debater is one who can argue both sides. Same goes here, if I can work both sides, I get a clearer understanding of what is going on.
It's a weak card. You expect me to believe that that is supposed be in a game where your character is not the greatest in HP, has a low HP card, low defense bonus against 2 and 3 damage shots, where you only do 1 damage and 1 healing? You either got the really short straw or are hiding something. Tell me, if that card is active, does it shield you against having certain facts about you being detected? You're Rumia after all. Also, what's the name of your spellcard?
I'd also like to point out that UK's card DID work against me. It just didn't do what she said (or thought?) it did. Though it did seem to penetrate my spellcard's shield (unless pesco screwed it up again).
And Roukanken, I believe UK's card is a "luck" card, meaning that the something you find out is random and might be something lame or something good, balancing it out.
Oh right, before I forget, what stopping you people from killing UK again? Hmm?
As a last point - UK tackled me yesterday. Pointlessly. She knew that from D1. Feels like she's trying to connect herself to me, thus making my attack on her look like a bus.
I'm paranoid that I'm wrong about UK, but for the last few games I've been paranoid about every choice I make so I may as well run with it.
Seriously, I've hit the usual 'Got a good reason to suspect everyone, have no idea where the hell to go' brick wall.
Honestly, though, I sort of which I hadn't signed up. I just have no enthusiasm for the game right now. >_>
Mmn...I really don't like these meta clears
It feels like he's trying to force what I'm saying into something else...or something like that...I really don't have a good word for it. I just...felt there was something off about how he used my own words.
Do you mean fluidity the way Affinity means it or...?
Why is this fishy? Rou has a point about the fact that I'm technically weaker I think?
Honestly, though, I sort of which I hadn't signed up. I just have no enthusiasm for the game right now. >_>
Can I see a list of this?Edible - Card that screams scum, general lack of input early days
AH HA HAI suppose it's nice to know I'm not alone, but if the GAME isn't FUN, aren't we sort of missing the point? When did Mafia just turn into a chore rather than a hobby?
This game is anything BUT fun. You're best off not playing it and I'm wondering why I'm playing it right now. Ain't it a blast?
And besides, fluidity of positions is what defines my playstyle. The best debater is one who can argue both sides.
UK I find neutral for the lack of doing much besides attacking Roukanken. I've seen both town and scum focus on one target using circular logic and ad hominem. I don't really see reason to bat an eye towards either right now.
First off, I'll point out the fallacy that just because there's more tackles doesn't mean more carelessness.
However, now I can see it's not all that much as apparently people have sufficient HP to survive some hits and more so, people are being cautious about how they're using their tackles.
I still stand by my point, if people are reasoning why they're tackling instead of just doing so for the lulz/game start/ whatever, then I good with that.
It feels like you agree I shouldn't have been hit so hard but you hit someone for healing me despite that agreement.
Provide evidence that the town's issue with me was my declared intentions.
Not necessarily. And Zak didn't back it up with an action. We get to the difference between intent and consequence. You actually tackled me. Zak, merely expressed the opinion. You didn't leave town any time to decide if I was to be kept alive or not.
Um...what?
This doesn't address my point at all.
It's also a huge insult to the mod in saying that you find this game unfun during the game itself, who took all the effort to organize it, by the way, and I really look down on that behavior.
And I don't like Rou going 'what I did was okay because no one else will do what I did just now' especially when I was in the same position to do what he did when he made this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3088.msg129891#msg129891). Granted, I was not able to come back before the day ended, but knowing that his shot was rather powerful, he should not have used it and goad the actions of 3 other townies for healing, especially others were alright with taking the less powerful shot.I already made this point on D1/2 - I wasn't fine with people simply saying they'd do it, like everyone had been for the whole day. You were saying you wanted to tackle, but you didn't actually tackle.
It one of those things where you've done all this hard work and it's mentally rewarding to finally make the big move that wins the game or whatever, regardless of what side you're on. It's great to be on the upside of things at times. And besides, I can only find the game exciting because I fail to take it seriously. If you guys shoot me, then, well, I get on with life. Until then, it's a joy ride.I think the problem for me is that I basically don't have any confidence in my own ability right now. I'm not trying to say that the game isn't fun, I'm saying that it's a fault on my part. My problem is that after a long string of unsuccessful games, I'm really not very proud when it comes to my track record, so for every move I make I've basically got a voice in the back of my head saying 'Have I screwed up again?'.
Bite me, that's how I work.
Force fit your words into a mold you don't believed they fit in? Maybe, I need to look some more..
I have no clue anymore. You people use vague words.
Welcome to Mafia. This game isn't meant to be fun. I'm sure everyone wonders why they joined the game at some point or another because it's about making people miserable and forcing down on them to find out information. Once you're under pressure, it stops being fun. Even less so when your survive depends on the opinion of morons who fail to take note of certain details or just like bandwagon without reason even though they're townie. This game is anything BUT fun. You're best off not playing it and I'm wondering why I'm playing it right now. Ain't it a blast? Alas, I'll still last through because the game is exciting enough to make up for the lack of fun and the total frustration. Like a drama really. And when it's over, I'm really hoping to grab that title of magnificent bastard. Until then, I keep playing as I am.
Edible - Card that screams scum, general lack of input early days
Ramus - Insistence that the pair of us are both Town on meta
Nietz - Self-preservation for no reason
Drake - Screaming at Serp all game and healing UK despite even UK herself saying not to
Serp - 'Hey, things are getting hectic, I'll just WASTE MY ACTION HEALING MYSELF BECAUSE APPARENTLY THE MAFIA ARE OUT TO GET ME'
Zak - Seriously where the hell has he been
Affinity - See Zak.
It one of those things where you've done all this hard work and it's mentally rewarding to finally make the big move that wins the game or whatever, regardless of what side you're on. It's great to be on the upside of things at times. And besides, I can only find the game exciting because I fail to take it seriously. If you guys shoot me, then, well, I get on with life. Until then, it's a joy ride.
Fair and your feeling is correct. But what's wrong with that? You announced your intent to attack Rou three more times, so do we heal Rou too, or what? So you are on equal footing with Rou, and thus you should not have been healed. It's consistent. You actually tackled, so you 'executed' that action in a sense, even though no damage was done.
Serp tackled twice for kneejerk OMGUS, for example. Rou and Zakeri have cited things which are wrong with you, and if you want, people can raise their hands if they thought this too.
Let's go on with today then, with your intentions/consequences shtick. And there's time now, isn't there? It was not an outright hammer, but an action. Might as well accuse Drake or even Ramus for healing you without letting town decide either, which you did not.
I put that point to Rou, twice. Rou did not respond. I can't do anything, and it is not my fault for that. Those points something I will keep for the future, however, in my assessment of him.
It's also a huge insult to the mod in saying that you find this game unfun during the game itself, who took all the effort to organize it, by the way, and I really look down on that behavior.
UK, why aren't you, or anyone else scummy for, say, tackling Rou without our consensus?
Your logic on Edible is reasonably debunked until there is evidence otherwise. Do you have anything else?Does 'he hasn't said anything useful other than trying to read into the setup' qualify?
Why does this make Ramus scummy?Because, well, meta can be exploited. He wrote off the argument too quickly...like he's trying to get credit for avoiding Town/Town rather than actually considering all the possibilities.
Serp - 'Hey, things are getting hectic, I'll just WASTE MY ACTION HEALING MYSELF BECAUSE APPARENTLY THE MAFIA ARE OUT TO GET ME'
Uh, Rou, you're aware that I was at -5 HP at the time, right? And that on that same day, scum did attack me and brought me to -6 HP, right? 'Cause it looks to me like you're trying really hard to be sarcastic here, but I have no idea why. >_>Unless being at -6HP put you at a direct risk of death if you were attacked again, it's more proactive to attack than defend.
Er... I think I remember Serp mentioning something about his having only six health, which if I'm understanding that right, and if he's telling the truth, means that having taken six points of damage would have finished him off if he hadn't healed himself...
Even if UK flips town, Edible isn't necessarily scum - with my quickness to heal myself yesterday, scum might've figured that I had only six HP, and so they could have used their intrinsic ability on me to frame the two spellcard users and off me at the same time.Doesn't say he actually HAS only 6 HP. >_>
Unless being at -6HP put you at a direct risk of death if you were attacked again, it's more proactive to attack than defend.
Plus, why would scum attack you - for 1 damage, take note
when a) you were already taking hits anyway, and b) there were several people at the time who were arguing for your death? Reeks of potential gambit, but then again in my current mindstate so does everything. T_T
2 damage. I was at -5 before I healed myself to -4. Scum attacked me and brought me to -6.2 isn't really that much better. I'd have assumed scum had something that was much more likely to kill, really.
When you list everyone as scummy, you're the one who looks scummiest for it.Herein lies the problem that's more or less killing my interest in Mafia. I get suspicious of everyone, so I more or less end up picking one target and running with it. >_>
Does 'he hasn't said anything useful other than trying to read into the setup' qualify?
Because, well, meta can be exploited. He wrote off the argument too quickly...like he's trying to get credit for avoiding Town/Town rather than actually considering all the possibilities.
Not too much to comment on, here. Lots of words, not much content. I'll look over it after UK's flip to try and get some more impressions, but since our next course of action is already set, pretty much any of it could be a deliberate act. The analysis fence from UK is to be expected either way. If she flips scum, then it's all WIFOM. If she flips town, then I guess I'll try to compare my notes to it.
I'm ignoring UK until I get an alignment from her. Although, I would be happy with an explanation for someone why she's -1 HP in The Great Blowhole and not Kicking the Kisume.
Maybe I would have died, maybe I wouldn't have. The point is that I was completely justified in thinking that scum were going to try to finish me off, because that's exactly what they did.Except for the fact that they didn't. This either means that Scum have an incredibly ineffective replacement for the nightkill, or that someone is playing WiFoM games here.
The damage inflicted to your spell card should not have been visible, so *fixed*
UK has taken 6 damageokay~
Oh right, before I forget, what stopping you people from killing UK again? Hmm?
As a last point - UK tackled me yesterday. Pointlessly. She knew that from D1. Feels like she's trying to connect herself to me, thus making my attack on her look like a bus.
And when it's over, I'm really hoping to grab that title of magnificent bastard. Until then, I keep playing as I am.
Except for the fact that they didn't. This either means that Scum have an incredibly ineffective replacement for the nightkill, or that someone is playing WiFoM games here.
If it HAD worked I'd assume that Rou would be healed as well. That was still only 1/3rd of the initial thing.
You completely missed my point then. My point was that you handwave Rou's actions as him being Rou, despite implied accusation.
There was a consensus in place that I was to be left alive and not killed.
There, however, was NO consensus when I was healed Day 2. Notice that I called Drake out for healing me as well.
I only deal 1 damage, so I couldn't kill her. I was hoping someone else would show up before pesco did to help me do so, but pesco showed up 30 minutes earlier than he did the previous day. This statement really manages to irk me, though, considering you healed yourself instead of helping us gather information by sacrificing the scummiest-looking person we have. You get scum points for intentionally dragging the game out then rubbing it in like this - your abrupt interrogation of my abilities worries me as well, to be honest.
This entire post rubs me the wrong way. You're basically saying "screw logical analysis, I'll use meta clears because it's HOW I ROLL", then following it up with crazy ego flaunting that doesn't serve ANY pro-town purpose. You then top it off with a post that implies you don't give a crap about the game. Way to inspire confidence in your scumhunting.
You get scum points for intentionally dragging the game out then rubbing it in like thisClassic example of Pirates and Global Warming. We have less pirates in the world. The world is getting warmer. Therefore, we need more pirates to cool it down. I'm dragging the game on slowly. Therefore I'm scummy. Now, last time I checked, we still have no concrete way of telling whether or not scum get daily potshots at people or not, until that connection is made, I fail to see how this makes me scummy.
6) So about Spell Cards.
--Declaring one takes up your action for the day.
--All spell cards are one-use.
--Your name will appear in red in damage counts while it lasts.
--Any damage you take will go against your spell card's durability, not your HP. Your spell card will break if you take at least as much damage as your card's durability. Overflow damage will count against your HP.
--Spell cards will automatically fade after a certain number of days.
--While in a spell card trance the only ability you can use is the one associated with the spell card. You can, of course, choose not to target anyone.
I also commented on Rou... Specifically that he's a FREAKING IDIOT!
Past tense. I asked for target confirmation by PM in the event of it being unclear in thread.
##Declare!
Pesco had this action target Serpentarius. (Yes, yes, I know.)
Kisume is also pretty broken. Nobody wanted her :(
The way Ramus does it is kinda emotionless IMO.
There's no luck in misleading town into killing each other for you. Good misleading scum would not have a problem of dealing insufficient damage with just rage points. There was also the chance of idiot town...
DAMMIT RAMUS T_TThere's a reason why deadpan snarkers are the guys who solve the messy problems. Granted, I could have built up logical arguments against others, but being whining and annoying tends to set people off just enough to find out who's scum and who's not. And besides, Pesco, do you have the list of people and their alignments? I'd like to prove right now that both Roukanken and UK are townie.
There's a reason why deadpan snarkers are the guys who solve the messy problems. Granted, I could have built up logical arguments against others, but being whining and annoying tends to set people off just enough to find out who's scum and who's not. And besides, Pesco, do you have the list of people and their alignments? I'd like to prove right now that both Roukanken and UK are townie.
And take this as a lesson, just because someone's nice doesn't mean they're good and vice a versa. See Archer from Fate/Stay Night for an example of the latter.
...Wait, Ramus is Town? o_O
The way I saw it, it looked like he was boasting that he was getting Town to destroy itself. :V
Dude, I caught Edible. WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM?!Touch?. T_T
Alright, final judgement on some players.
Affinity and Zak, firstly, I just didn't see enough of. I can't remember anything in particular either of you said, and Affinity spent a good deal of time asking me a question I'd already answered.
Nietz's reasoning for self-healing is still poor to me. You have no reason to heal yourself and therefore prevent being able to use your attack for pressure if not finding scum at the start of the day.
Serp insisting on dropping people to low health with unknown scum abilities was bad. Admittedly it ended up that it would've been a decent idea, but that's besides the point.
I already made my case against Edible.
UK...overreacted. A lot. Yes, 3 HP was a lot of damage, but that's what healing is for. You weren't in any danger of death until your overreaction and OMGUS landed you in hot water.
Drake, I understand this was your first game, but you tunneled on Serp really hard pretty much all game. I also didn't like how you basically followed UK's case word for word.
Ramus...I had never liked how you played this round, but I'm irritated I gave you a pass on rusty newbie meta. -_-
And once again, I need to apologise for screwing up myself. I was first on Edible, yes, but I had him tied with EVERY OTHER PLAYER in terms of suspicions which helps nothing. That's why I think I seriously need a break from this game. -_-
Dude, I caught Edible. WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM?!
Anyway, Edible, since Pesco isn't talking, can you give us the identities of the Mafia?
I don't regret being a jerk in this one. It made people annoyed with me, just enough to be anti-town and therefore not the person to shoot, but also townie enough to not be lynched.There is a reason why scum wouldn't shoot anti-town players, an that's because they are anti-town. While that strategy is a good one when you're a power role in regular Mafia, it's definitely a negative sum if you are just keeping yourself alive at town's expense and don't have anything to make up for it. Scum thrives in confusion and annoyance amongst the players. (Unless you are a SK or something, then it's still a dangerous play, but still valid.)
UK...overreacted. A lot. Yes, 3 HP was a lot of damage, but that's what healing is for. You weren't in any danger of death until your overreaction and OMGUS landed you in hot water.
As for scum, well, I had UK and Edible as the top contenders, though I was getting dubious about UK at the end, but still determined that she'd better die.
I don't recall you ever tackling Edible, so it doesn't exactly count as having caught him. By your definition, Rou caught scum too when he posted his list-of-suspect-everyone.I don't tackle anyone. Not even Affinity. '3' Never commit to a single person. However, I did heal a lot.
That this game was seen as an example by potential newcomers to the Mafia circle is unfortunate, but etc.
The time they spent not calling the game was more time that everyone could use to basically yell at each other, run each other over with tanks, and generally get their sado-masochistic Mafia fix on without much of a worry that it would have permanent ramifications.The game would really have flown better if Rou and Uk weren't fighting with each other like angry felines. ;)
The game would really have flown better if Rou and Uk weren't fighting with each other like angry felines. ;)
They should get disciplined for their misbehavior (Pesco and Serp take notes.)
u?, I think Donut would disagree that you're a bad mod. =3Maybe not for the rather broken ability I gave him, but for being his therapist during his experience as scum :)
I have a hideout? o.oThat's what I'm talking about ;)
Donut still has that Quicktopic that he keeps spamming with junk(like his various topics on the GFaqs Dead Boards), btw.
I think Pesco disciplining Rou disciplining UK would be a good idea for a CPMC topic...
Nah UK can't discipline me. The only person that could didn't play this game.