Author Topic: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now  (Read 108215 times)

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #510 on: March 08, 2012, 12:43:12 AM »
Vivit never had to deal with the lunarians, only martians iirc (lunarians aren't mentioned in Seihou iirc), it may be possible that the lunarians aren't known to the Seihou characters/civilizations, depending on how early ZUN has thought about their background story. It may be also a conflict between Touhou and Seihou canon. (how did Vivit meet Reimu, if she's from a future where her creator has discovered Saboten energy, which is more powerful and dangerous --initially at least -- than nuclear energy?)

Yuuka mentioned that science without magic was stupid (or something like that) in Kioh Gyoku, in her win quote.
neku: now for something important.
Translations.
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #511 on: March 08, 2012, 01:36:53 AM »
Vivit never had to deal with the lunarians, only martians iirc (lunarians aren't mentioned in Seihou iirc), it may be possible that the lunarians aren't known to the Seihou characters/civilizations, depending on how early ZUN has thought about their background story. It may be also a conflict between Touhou and Seihou canon. (how did Vivit meet Reimu, if she's from a future where her creator has discovered Saboten energy, which is more powerful and dangerous --initially at least -- than nuclear energy?)

Maribel and Renko don't exist in the Seihou world, but in one that follows ours more closely.  Their world, Gensoyoko, and Seihou run parallel to each other.  The Seihou world however, has suffered a disaster which wiped out all the plants on earth other than cacti, leading to resource wars and alternative technological developments, as well as planetary colonization.  Yumemi is either from the Seihou world or another unmentioned dimension, as a unified theory and her hypervessel are more on par with Seihou tech.  The Seihou world has an actual pathway into Gensoyoko through the Silk Road.  This would mean that the divergence of the Seihou Earth and Maribel's Earth occurs either at, or after the sealing away of Gensoyoko.

An example of outsiders, Sanae and her shrine would be from Maribel's Earth.  Yumemi and Chiyuri would be from the Seihou world.  If Sanae had come from the Seihou world, the goddesses would have tried to make a Saboten powerplant, not a fusion one.  Chiyuri, on the other hand, has no qualms disposing of a nuclear fusion robot maid or an ICBM.

VIVIT dueled Marisa and Reimu before spellcard rules were in effect, just a bit before EoSD, due to the appearances of costumes.  Yuuka has from the end of the last PC-98 game until PoFV to be wandering in the Seihou world, because it was stated by ZUN that in Kioh Gyoku that she'd gotten her prize from the events of Mystic Square.

VIVIT-r was built a year after Kioh Gyoku, after the regular VIVIT model was mass-produced.

And, actually, the highest power generation in Seihou is RedStorm Energy, which is empowered by ghosts of the dead.  VIVIT-r uses this.  Saboten is technically inferior to it, and nuclear energy is less powerful than Saboten.  Note that VIVIT-R is not affected when the ghost inhabiting the primary generator on Mars goes rampant, and after the events of the first game, not much is said about what exactly happened to the original Vivit. (in the second game, however, the regular VIVIT would wonder if its duplicate was the original.)  Not only that VIVIT-r apparently has a soul.  VIVIT-r might carry the soul of the original Vivit, which could account for her personality and immunity to the RedStorm rampage.

Not only that, the RedStorm plant existed at least 11 years, meaning that Erich had access to a superior version of power generation long before the events of the first Seihou game, and even the Saboten accident.


And Yuuka stated that chemistry without magic is stupid.  She also called it boring.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #512 on: March 08, 2012, 07:08:55 PM »
Maribel and Renko don't exist in the Seihou world, but in one that follows ours more closely.  Their world, Gensoyoko, and Seihou run parallel to each other.  The Seihou world however, has suffered a disaster which wiped out all the plants on earth other than cacti, leading to resource wars and alternative technological developments, as well as planetary colonization.  Yumemi is either from the Seihou world or another unmentioned dimension, as a unified theory and her hypervessel are more on par with Seihou tech.

Quick note/correction:  It's stated in Magical Astronomy that humanity has finished the unified theory in Maribel's time (indirectly. More specifically, it's stated that humanity has managed to unify all the forces of energy, which is what the unified theory is). In fact, IIRC, science is so advanced that humanity literally can not research any more and science has "reached its peak" (direct quote) because any further analysis of things would require more energy than the world has.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 07:10:29 PM by Tiamat »

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #513 on: March 08, 2012, 10:36:11 PM »
Quick note/correction:  It's stated in Magical Astronomy that humanity has finished the unified theory in Maribel's time (indirectly. More specifically, it's stated that humanity has managed to unify all the forces of energy, which is what the unified theory is). In fact, IIRC, science is so advanced that humanity literally can not research any more and science has "reached its peak" (direct quote) because any further analysis of things would require more energy than the world has.

They also are able to go on trips on the moon, which I think was implied to be Lunarian civilization...

I thought they were from the same world where Rinnosuke keeps getting his stuff from, like the gameboy.

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #514 on: March 09, 2012, 02:20:32 AM »
So as i mentioned before, you can kill Yoshika on Seiga's nonspells in Ten Desires, and she wont respawn till the end. But don't do it on the last one or THIS will happen :o
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #515 on: March 09, 2012, 02:57:20 AM »
Cirno freezes her spellcards when using them in Hisoutensoku.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #516 on: March 09, 2012, 04:28:13 AM »
Quote
They also are able to go on trips on the moon, which I think was implied to be Lunarian civilization...

I thought they were from the same world where Rinnosuke keeps getting his stuff from, like the gameboy.

Yeah, they can go to the moon, but they cannot see the Lunarians. They only saw the "fake moon", so to speak.
Also, Maribel and Renko's world takes place sometime in the distant future, but I believe it is the same world as Gensokyo.

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #517 on: March 09, 2012, 05:01:40 AM »
From what I remember of the theory, Mary/Renko world is parallel and future to our own, as is Seihou.  Our own is the one that's supposedly connected to Gensokyo as the outside.  There's also a parallel scientific Gensokyo, which Chiyuri/Yumemi are from.  But the only part of that I'm absolutely sure of is the part about the outside.
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #518 on: March 09, 2012, 04:47:38 PM »
ZUN declared that PC-98 isn't canon.  ...that said, Yumemi and Chiyuri were probably the proto-type or precursor idea for Maribel's world and some of its concepts. Chiyuri's title is sailor who travels through time, implying that Yumemi and Chiyuri are from the future.  Yumemi is a university professor and Magical Astronomy takes place in a university, and Yumemi comes from a world where everything has been unified and is trying to discover magic, just like how Maribel comes from a world where energy has been unified and is trying to discover "magic" (of sorts), hence the title MAGICal Astronomy. Mary's even called a magician at the end to hammer this point home.

Also, Magical Astronomy and I think some of the other stories flat out state that Maribel's world is in fact the future of our world (and thus, Gensokyo's), and thus not some parallel dimension. It uses sentences like "In the near future", etc.

As for the trips to the moon, part of the whole point of Mary wanting to go to the Moon ASAP is she's worried that humanity will start colonizing the moon, which for whatever reason will do... SOMETHING to Lunarian society (it's not explicit what, though). Lunarians themselves in the present day are worried about things like humans claiming the moon for their own via flags, as well, so apparently humanity colonizing the moon will be bad for them. Regular trips generally don't do much though because the lunarians are protected by a barrier similar to Gensokyo's that keeps outsiders from ever finding them on the moon.

The official references for all of the above can be found in the wiki.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 04:50:11 PM by Tiamat »

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #519 on: March 09, 2012, 06:47:31 PM »
ZUN declared that PC-98 isn't canon.  ...that said, Yumemi and Chiyuri were probably the proto-type or precursor idea for Maribel's world and some of its concepts. Chiyuri's title is sailor who travels through time, implying that Yumemi and Chiyuri are from the future.  Yumemi is a university professor and Magical Astronomy takes place in a university, and Yumemi comes from a world where everything has been unified and is trying to discover magic

In the Seihou world magic isn't used or proven either, and only Muse actually uses it.  Yuuka notices that they don't use it either, so the duo could very well be from the Seihou world.  possibly even from its future.  (Although if it's the future, that'd make little sense, as they are still using nuclear power)

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #520 on: March 09, 2012, 09:35:59 PM »
In the Seihou world magic isn't used or proven either, and only Muse actually uses it.  Yuuka notices that they don't use it either, so the duo could very well be from the Seihou world.  possibly even from its future.  (Although if it's the future, that'd make little sense, as they are still using nuclear power)

Considering the fact that Shusou Gyoku's prologue states "This tale is set on Earth, way in the future.", I'm not sure why people insist on debating whether it does or not. Certainly, Shusou Gyoku is likely not canon to Touhou, but that doesn't change the fact that it and Touhou are set on earth.  People who say Seihou and Touhou take place in parallel dimensions is the equivalent of saying Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Sailor Moon take place in parallel dimensions, which I always felt was complete nonsense (or more specifically, completely pointless, for reasons I'll explain).  They all take place on earth, just in different canons, which, while similar to the concept of parallel dimensions, has quite a LOT of key differences. Mainly that any attempts to debate on what's true and what's not regarding the relationship between the two is completely pointless because they aren't canon to each other.

So basically, if you wanted to write a fanfic that incorporated both Touhou and Seihou, you could either have them be parallel dimensions, or have them both be earth (tho of course Seihou specifically states it takes place in the future) and neither would contradict canon (beyond the fact that both of them exist together in that fanfic depending on your point of view) because the two have no initial canon relation and likely never will.

...course, it's technically not directly stated the two aren't canon to each other. It's wholly possible the extra stage where Vivit met Marisa and Reimu really did happen in ZUN's idea of canon Touhou (and it'd be windows series, since it's clearly windows Marisa and Reimu she meets) but whatever. In that case, I'd just go with what's stated on the tin. Seihou states it takes place in the far future of earth, and Touhou takes place on earth. The end. Any plot inconsistencies or silliness could simply be chalked up to the writers not doing the research.

.....anyways, canon or not, me personally, I feel there's a decent chance ZUN had Seihou in mind when he made the world of Maribel's time. In Maribel's time, which is the near future (Magical Astronomy or Retrospective 53 minutes specifically states "near future", while Seihou specifically states "way in the future"), the environment is already going to hell in a handbasket. The girl eats synthetic strawberries and bamboo shoots. Thus, logically speaking, Seihou being the far future where the environment has been all but anhiliated is merely the logical progression of the future from Maribel's time.  But of course, that's just a theory with no way to prove it (...or any point to proving it).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 09:40:17 PM by Tiamat »

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #521 on: March 15, 2012, 08:04:24 AM »
Milia is 29 in the first game, 26 in the secon, and in her 30s in the third of Seihou series.  She is also the fastest Outside-world character.

Erich tries to destroy VIVIT during every incident.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 08:33:27 PM by Irate Researchers »

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #522 on: March 15, 2012, 04:45:04 PM »
In PC-98 canon, Yuuka was the strongest of the youkai.

On terms of unrestrained power in Gensoyoko, Shikieiki is strongest.  Reimu is the secondmost powerful, above Yukari.
stop that

EDIT: partly because :powerlevels: and partly because all of those claims are unconfirmed and possibly weakly founded
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 11:35:33 PM by Drake »

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #523 on: March 15, 2012, 08:16:45 PM »
stop that
Oh, right, There are no discussions of power level.  I forgot about that.

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #524 on: March 17, 2012, 05:28:54 AM »
In th10, Kanako uses two sets of RGB disco lights at the last spellcard.
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #525 on: March 19, 2012, 08:48:55 PM »
Is it just me, or does Patchy's theme sound very similar to Rikako's during that middle part? Also Remi's theme sounds like the unused track, "Winds of Time," from PoDD.

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #526 on: March 20, 2012, 07:39:02 AM »
Erich's name means "forever" or "alone."
Erich is a bit of a pervert

Gates favorite color is pink.
Girls (even from other dimensions) comment about his scent.

Lagunas has a shota complex.  (yeah.)

Considering that these are the manliest characters of the seihou series...

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #527 on: March 23, 2012, 05:25:12 PM »
I only just noticed that Marisa is ALWAYS a Stage 4 boss, with the exception of the Phantasmogorias and fighting games, neither of them having real stages. [PoFV calls Komachi the midboss and Shiki the Boss in the music room descrptions...]. Although Marisa can be a stage 4 boss in both PoDD and PoFV.

SoEW: Stage 4
LLS: Stage 4
IN: Stage 4
GFW: Extra Stage... but GFW only has 3 stages in the main game, so she's technically Stage 4 AGAIN, at least chronologically.

Despite always being the 4th boss, Marisa has been slightly different in nature every time:

SoEW: Penultimate Boss
LLS: Normal Boss
IN: Midboss and Boss
GFW: Extra Boss

Weird...


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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #528 on: March 23, 2012, 09:57:00 PM »
[attach=1]

Yo Danny Fenton he was just 14
When his parents built a very strange machine
It was designed to view a world unseen

When it didn't work, his folks they just quit
Then Danny took a look inside of it
There was a great big flash, everything just changed
His molecules got all rearranged

When he first woke up, he realized
He had snow white hair, and glowing green eyes
He could walk through walls, disappear, and fly
He was much more unique than the other guys

And it was then that he knew what he had to do
He had to stop all the ghosts that were coming through
He's here to fight for me and you

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #529 on: March 24, 2012, 02:13:18 AM »
I only just noticed that Marisa is ALWAYS a Stage 4 boss, with the exception of the Phantasmogorias and fighting games, neither of them having real stages. [PoFV calls Komachi the midboss and Shiki the Boss in the music room descrptions...]. Although Marisa can be a stage 4 boss in both PoDD and PoFV.

SoEW: Stage 4
LLS: Stage 4
IN: Stage 4
GFW: Extra Stage... but GFW only has 3 stages in the main game, so she's technically Stage 4 AGAIN, at least chronologically.

Despite always being the 4th boss, Marisa has been slightly different in nature every time:

SoEW: Penultimate Boss
LLS: Normal Boss
IN: Midboss and Boss
GFW: Extra Boss

Weird...

WAIT!  In Shuuso Gyoku she is the Extra Stage Boss #1, and that game has 6 stages before it!

While you might argue that it is in Seihou, the sister series of Touhou, and therefore not canon, I might remind you that it IS canon for Seihou.

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #530 on: March 24, 2012, 03:37:57 PM »
In Double Spoiler Stage 7, Shou and Nazrin uses spellcards named「ハングリータイガー」(Hungry Tiger) and 「ゴールドラッシュ」(Gold Rush).

Coincidentally (or not), 'Hungry Tiger' and 'Gold Rush' are both names of Hamburger franchises in Japan.
Does anyone know how famous these franchises are?
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #531 on: March 24, 2012, 05:45:31 PM »
Marisa knows she's in a game.  Or she attributes life to that of videogames...  She's genre-savvy.

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #532 on: March 25, 2012, 12:05:54 PM »
EoSD

Stage 6

Marisa Route

Marisa - "...you don't seem to have a brain."

Remilia - "Humans are the only ones
who need simple chemical
thought centers such as brains. "

That means... most, if not all non-human in Gensokyo is lacking a brain?

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #533 on: March 25, 2012, 04:41:40 PM »
Marisa knows she's in a game.  Or she attributes life to that of videogames...  She's genre-savvy.
So is Alice, actually.


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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #534 on: March 25, 2012, 08:56:02 PM »
That means... most, if not all non-human in Gensokyo is lacking a brain?
I remember reading somewhere that youkai and the like are more spiritual constructs than they are physical beings.

Here it is: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Youkai
Just read "Youkai in Touhou."

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #535 on: March 26, 2012, 08:14:11 AM »
So is Alice, actually.
Parsee too.  although she might be playing along.