[WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread III

[ApharmdB]

My main complaint with 0.977 is because it's now 5v5 there's more emphasis on NOT BEING DUMB.

...Which is basically a MOBA-universal-level complaint anyway.

Technically, any multiplayer online game suffers from this. Any multiplayer online PvP game suffers it even more. Good god, the memories of those days playing CS... and then L4D/L4D2... *shudder*

About the shops, the items in 0.978 onwards will have info regarding where their ingredients can be found. I just have to think of a proper way to translate it into English so that it won't take up 3 lines in the description. Hopefully that'll alleviate it somewhat. I didn't have time to implement a "Used for: " section in their descriptions this time. Maybe in 0.978 yeah...

[trancehime]

Technically, any multiplayer online game suffers from this. Any multiplayer online PvP game suffers it even more. Good god, the memories of those days playing CS... and then L4D/L4D2... *shudder*

I don't play FPSes, I play MMORPGs, so I know how you feel, except magnify that "good god" feeling by tenfold. But yeah seriously I'll be more prone to raging due to that aspect, since losing a man due to stupids in 5v5 is MUCH MUCH MUCH more of a punishment than the same in 3v4.

ARGH LK AND PALLY IN RO WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY DO AND CLAIM 2HSZERK IS GOD BUILD

Spoiler:

it isn't

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

ARGH LK AND PALLY IN RO WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY DO AND CLAIM 2HSZERK IS GOD BUILD

Spoiler:

it isn't

Trance you are dumb and you should feel dumb what are you talking about. 2hszerk may be good but you are forgetting about the even better 1hszerk build.

Also.

Before somebody qqs some more about this, this is not directed at anyone in particular, just my general feeling towards the entire qq attitude.

[Dr Rawr]

DUN TELL ME WHAT TO DO, IM MAH OWN MAN. IF I WANNA ROLL WIH A NITORI CUCUMBER CANNON ONLY I WILL OR MAYBE A 6 BOAT REISEN. BUT YE YOU GET THE POINT.

[Dular]

DUN TELL ME WHAT TO DO, IM MAH OWN MAN. IF I WANNA ROLL WIH A NITORI CUCUMBER CANNON ONLY I WILL OR MAYBE A 6 BOAT REISEN. BUT YE YOU GET THE POINT.

Focus on cannon isn't a terribly bad idea in .977.  Not a great idea mind you, but not bad.

[Dr Rawr]

I meant 967 but yea w/e

[Helepolis]

I am disappointed in all of you.
















For disrespecting the captain and not addressing her properly.  -10 points for Griffondor.

On a serious note:
I have no complaints about our in-house games. It makes us more mindread like Pesco mentioned. Sometimes things go automatically (depending on who I play with). So you can fully rely on each other and requires minor communication because ~ awareness ~.

Unfortunately, not everybody has this awareness and people tend to fool around often. Nothing wrong with that. We shouldn't mutate our games into serious business games because we know what kind of drama shows up on those type of games. And that is another good thing about our in-house games. We could decide to go serious or not, because we know each other. You cannot do that in public games in DotA or LoL or Garena/HF I guess.

@ Amra, don't see your arguments on our community style. Everything is unbanned in 977.


Edit

Wiki girl overview is now 977h2. You may thank some noobs and fanboys/girls who helped out.

[Amraphenson]

Regardless of whether it's unbanned or not, we have our sense of honor still. You don't see the gay heroes get picked. We see problems with picking heroes like Youmu, Aya, and other jerks; others don't.

Anyways, whatever. We're transitioning to 977. In the end, I agree with Dormio. Less QQ, more pew pew.

Also, Yamame needs to be officially unbanned. She doesn't cause lag any differently from Rin and Alice.

[Helepolis]

Regardless of whether it's unbanned or not, we have our sense of honor still. You don't see the gay heroes get picked. We see problems with picking heroes like Youmu, Aya, and other jerks; others don't.

Eh, actually last games I played and seen, had few gay AGI carries. Because you cannot keep ignoring them.

Also, Yamame needs to be officially unbanned. She doesn't cause lag any differently from Rin and Alice.

She was unbanned you know.

[Amraphenson]

Last time I checked the list she was still on it. Oh well.

In essence, I'm saying we need to care less. The moniker 'gay agis' kinda just exemplifies it; we have a stigma towards certain things that we shouldn't really have. Whatever then. If what you said was true, since I've only been seeing all random games so far, then yay! If not, w/e.

[Dr Rawr]

Guyz koishi doesnt have an innate yet, it should be like: when an enemy targets you with a spell, it has a chance to redirect it at a nearby random target, like 15% chance :V

[Pesco]

No Koishi's innate should be attack range boosts based on her kill streak. It's like she's getting an erection you know :V

[Dr Rawr]

new chen roll: make it no cooldown but it increases in mp cost every roll with in a certain time

[CloverNaght]

Daiyousei whaarrrrr
the fact that sakuya vs koakuma happens in toho saimoe makes me even moar rage because everyone obv pick hurrdurrmaid lamee
LONG LIVE MINORITY GIRLS

No Koishi's innate should be attack range boosts based on her kill streak. It's like she's getting an erection you know :V

this is why Pesco should be the one who suggest ideas for dots heroes

[Amraphenson]

new chen roll: make it no cooldown but it increases in mp cost every roll with in a certain time

Or make it old chen roll; goes forever, draining mana exponentially as you go along. Stop cancellable.

[ApharmdB]

It's entirely possible to make it so that she can be launched by a teammate ala fastball special. :V

[Dr Rawr]

Its seimoe

Chens ultimate, the more stacks she gets the larger her model gets

[Helepolis]

I am going to raise a discussion here regarding the complaints and feedback so far given on 977 in comparison to 967. Don't worry, it aint gonna be a wall of text. Just to the point I want to mention few things:

Early judgement with poor arguments
We haven't been having enough 977h2 matches to justify the real status on this map. I know the first few versions of 977 were a huge train wreck, however 977h2 is a major change compared to previous versions. I keep noticing people claiming x is dumb y is dumb. Yesterday's game does not make up for these arguments because that match was one sided. I have been in a tight match which I streamed, and that match was pretty balanced. Both in girls and players.

Sure, I have been hating 977 in the beginning as well. We all hated it, but since a few versions it has been becoming better and better. Therefore, it should be played to get used to it, as well as decide if we really need to apply bans like we did in 967 because right now there has been no obvious evidence of girls being brokenOP, aside info from other communities.

5v5 is a different style
967 != 977. I am going to be blunt and rude and call: 'DWI' here. Not because of the girl changes or scaling, but simply because of the fact 5v5 is a whole different playstyle than 4v4. Previously, in 4v4 you could mostly get away with lack of good carry or other strange styles or formations. Laning and teamfighting was a whole lot different. Some girls had different styles in 4v4 fights than now. 5v5 calls out to be more serious (OHNOES) about your team formations, especially if you are bad at taking losses. Dumb game/picks or not, you should feel responsible for the picks. If your team lolpicks girls without communication or common sense (inb4common(ry), you shouldn't be complaining about it end game that you lost because enemy had broken girls or you lacked the "useful" girls.

Final notes
I am calling more captain bans mode in our matches for serious games and hidden instant confirm mode for regular non-serious matches. Since all girls are unbanned, CM mode can give the game full choice how to cockblock/counter. If you are QQing about counter picks in normal games, then pick instant confirm hidden.

TL DR:
I expect somewhat communication, consideration and commitment from you people. We're playing DotS for more than a year and changes has overcome many of us. (YES WE CAN). QQ about the current map is not what we need. If you think a girl needs to go in a ban, provide us (the community whole not just me and Pesco) proof and we'll decide together if it goes in a ban or not.

Almost became a wall of text...

[Pesco]

I propose a ban on fakecats. And magicalness.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

common sense (inb4common(ry)

Common sense...?
This. Is. GENSOKYO!

Anyway, I said this in the IRC channel a while back, but both 967 and 977 DotS are horribly unbalanced.
Besides, it doesn't matter whether it's 67 or 77, you people QQ anyway when you lose.
All you seem to use 77 for is to add another excuse for you people to whine and bitch whenever you lose a game.
Basically, stop the QQ, grow a pair, and remember that this is a game.
Because, in my opinion, I think the bigger problem is the whiner attitude rather than the map itself.

[Helepolis]

Off topic and more into other:

5v5 oppai themed dots

Code: [Select]

[09:40:09] <Pesco> yuyuko/yukari/eirin/kanako/komachi/yuugi/meiling/yuuka/ran/keine
[09:40:17] <Pesco> 5v5 with oppai
[09:40:31] <Helepolis> whoever has yuugi and komachi in one team wins
[09:40:38] <Pesco> well separate them
[09:40:54] <Pesco> decide which girls make up which team
[09:41:03] <Pesco> and people pick their girl

[Pesco]

5v5 Oppai themepick tonight

Yuyuko Yukari Ran Komachi Meiling

VS

Eirin Kanako Keine Yuugi Yuuka

If you think something isn't balanced with this matchup, state why and we can fix it before the game. Once we're ready to go, there will be NO complaints about a side being stacked.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

But Pesco.
Both sides are already stacked.

[ApharmdB]

This seems to be a bad idea, but... for the curious...

Playing on HF

It seems that I have 1 or 2 spare accounts. PM me or prod me on IRC if you'd like to try out a game or two on HF using them. I make no promises regarding the connection quality. Try to observe a game or two first and leave if you're lagging or spiking noticeably. Some fellas host games using their school's connection and your ping/connection quality to them is going to suck hard no matter what.


Step 1 - Downloading the HF client from www.cga.com.cn

Screenshot: http://i40.tinypic.com/169oua0.png

Click on any of the four download links at the right (in the red circle). Your locale needs to be set to Chinese for the HF client to load properly. Use Applocale if needed.


Step 2 - At the login screen, ensure that the black and red circles display the options as shown in the screenshot. These will allow you to use the e-mail login function.

Screenshot: http://i44.tinypic.com/wwdvmg.png


Step 3 - Once logged in, click on the 2nd option in the list on the left (red circle), then in the next list, scroll down and click on the option in the yellow circle (this indicates the room's area). If you scroll down about 6 pages or so in the main list of rooms now, you will see the 12 DotS rooms. DO NOT ENTER ANY OF THEM FIRST.

Screenshot: http://i44.tinypic.com/68d0nn.png

Step 4 - Install the XLacc accelerator. Will write up more about this later on. It's free to use and seems more reliable than Xrush. Download from here - http://jiasuqi.xunlei.com/

Step 11 - Once that's done, you can double-click on any of the DotS rooms displayed in the screenshot in Step 3 to enter them. At this stage, if you've registered your own account, you will be prompted for your nick to use. This nick is permanent and cannot be changed unless you pay a fee! Once you enter, there may be a pop-up asking you to download something. You can safely ignore it - you won't be able to download it anyway. It's the HF platform's Teamspeak-like functionality. Rooms 2 and 9 are the most popular because that's where most of the better players go. Get ready for teamstack here because these two rooms have a large number of teams/groups of friends hosting games and playing together. The Xrush accelerator will take a while to determine the best route from your computer to the server before you can enter the room. If you are using Windows 7, you may see the Xrush accelerator install a dummy network connection. You may need to enable IPv6 for this connection (don't worry about this if you don't get any prompts about it). To start WC3, click on the big button on the lower left.

Screenshot: http://i44.tinypic.com/f4fjhk.png


Step 12 - The first time you try to launch a game, it will prompt you for the path to your WC3 executable. Click on the button in the red circle to search for it. This is NOT "Frozen Throne.exe"! Locate "war3.exe" in your directory instead.

Screenshot: http://i41.tinypic.com/2v9c86c.png


Once done, head on over to the LAN menu in WC3 and join a game. In case it hasn't been clear from the screenshots, HF is a chinese gaming platform, so expect some linguistic difficulties. While half (or probably more) of the players there are able to read and understand simple english, few will be able to type fast enough to respond to you. As you can imagine, this will be a problem given that they do rely a lot more on communication there, so you might want to indicate at the start that you can't read chinese (some jerks may kick you, but there're jerks no matter which platform you go to anyway) and keep your eye out for pings on the map. The Korean players who used to play here now have a team there, so you might encounter them there too.

[Helepolis]

But Pesco.
Both sides are already stacked.

[tbax704]

Koishi innate should be a cleave and split shot :V

Also sorry for that last game, I don't think I should play 977 until my comp gets upgraded.

[Dular]

I have no idea if it's just me, or do the strength carries seem way stronger than they should be?

I find Mokou, Suika, and Yuugi exceptionally strong if they build raw strength and maybe one other item.  Hard to do a lot when those three characters have 5000hp and do like 600 damage an attack due to massive scaling.

[CloverNaght]

I propose a ban on fakecats. And magicalness.

go dai

I have no idea if it's just me, or do the strength carries seem way stronger than they should be?

Well since this is LoL based where tanks dps like god and refuses to die so...

[ApharmdB]

I have no idea if it's just me, or do the strength carries seem way stronger than they should be?

I find Mokou, Suika, and Yuugi exceptionally strong if they build raw strength and maybe one other item.  Hard to do a lot when those three characters have 5000hp and do like 600 damage an attack due to massive scaling.

Some yes. Not Mokou, who's only really strong when you get her fed, but any agility carry will still put her in her place. Yuugi on the other hand with some of the new items is utterly broken, due in small part to her F skill's scaling, but mostly due to the synergy between her monstrous physical damage and some of the options that the new items give her. Somehow it doesn't seem to apply to Suika, although her MPP was indirectly boosted by the availability of some of the new items. I think it'll be quite a while before we see the full impact of some of the new items on the way all the different girls are played. Yuugi's (and to a lesser extent, Komachi's) case just happens to be the most obvious.

Oddly there're people now claiming that Letty is underpowered and I can't see why.. I think she's exceptionally good at what she's meant to do, but meh... opinions and lack of playtime. She's seen less frequently now though.

[Helepolis]

Probably because of the AoE size of her blizzard being nerfed. That was actually the most painful and dangerous skill she had. Because early game to mid, she dominated lanes against girls who could not out-harass her. So you kept on losing HP to her blizzard en eventually losing time/farm.

Perhaps that nerf caused people to QQ and stop playing her. I find it odd as well, in a duo lane, it is pretty much dominating imo. She can babysit well.