Touhou 13 ~ Ten Desires announced!

[Alfred F. Jones]

Late to the party.

There are two major trains of thought in my head right now:

1. "Oh god, oh god, new Touhou game! I wonder who I will fangirl over in this new game! This is gonna be awesome!!"

2. "FFFFFFFF PLEASE DO NOT RUIN EVERYTHING I HAVE PLANNED FOR MY SERIAL FICTION LIKE UFO DID FFFFFFFFF"

Writing serials in a universe where new information is added often enough to derail the best-laid plans makes me sad

[nintendonut888]

In those situations, isn't it best to put a disclaimer that it was written before certain characters and information came to light and go with what you have rather than try and cover up all the plot holes the information caused?

On topic, I'm still ecstatic over Youmu. This game already looks like it's going to be awesome. But I wonder what the theme of the music will be this time? Horror? If so, I can't wait to hear ZUN's take on more somber songs in-game.

[WHMZakeri]

Konpaku Youmu

PHFUBLEHPHTH.

My literal reaction. I wish I had been drinking tea at that moment, so I could simply just post "Teaspit.jpg" instead.

[Alfred F. Jones]

In those situations, isn't it best to put a disclaimer that it was written before certain characters and information came to light and go with what you have rather than try and cover up all the plot holes the information caused?

I'm not the sort who likes to blatantly contradict canon, though. Treat everything in canon as if it's a metaphor that's passed through several Orwellian editors before reaching us, who see it in an entirely separate cultural background from its intention? Sure. Write an event that actively flies in the face of canon information? God, never. A disclaimer is an idea I hadn't had, though. It'll take some thinking.

Spoiler:

Oh god oh god I hope none of ZUN's planned Last Words will contradict my own :<

Youmu, eh? This is pretty sweet. I don't so much care about her as I do about her master, but I do like Youmu.

One thing that reading this thread has taught me is that is indeed a fanbase that non-ironically wishes for Mima's return, and this shocks me. :S

[Tengukami]

Re: ZUN trolling - Double Spoi

Spoiler:

er 9-7 means there is a precedent for it. :V

Explain how Double Spoiler is trolling. Please. I would love to hear what evidence you have that ZUN created a game specifically to incite rage and/or disappointment in the fanbase, who clearly know better than him what Touhou should be like.

[Romantique Tp]

Suggesting a link to the touhou wiki in the OP.

Also,

Teaspit.jpg

http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/MasterBigode/?action=view&current=1298919613363.jpg

Explain how Double Spoiler is trolling. Please. I would love to hear what evidence you have that ZUN created a game specifically to incite rage and/or disappointment in the fanbase, who clearly know better than him what Touhou should be like.

He's referring to stage 9-7 of Double Spoiler I think.

[Iced Fairy]

One thing that reading this thread has taught me is that is indeed a fanbase that non-ironically wishes for Mima's return, and this shocks me. :S

Well she leaves so many unanswered questions.  Though I'd rather have her be a quick boss with a bit of info then a returning main.

And of course this will doom both my large works canon wise, but I knew it was going to happen.  With luck the place will be detached enough from Gensoukyo to handwave it in New World.  I knew ESR was doomed from the start, since I doubt Marisa will be a youkai and have a girlfriend in this game.

[nintendonut888]

Explain how Double Spoiler is trolling. Please. I would love to hear what evidence you have that ZUN created a game specifically to incite rage and/or disappointment in the fanbase, who clearly know better than him what Touhou should be like.

I believe he's referring to scene 9-7, which depicts Satori reading the player's mind and recalling the nearly universally traumatizing scene 9-6 from StB, not the whole game.

[Tengukami]

He's referring to stage 9-7 of Double Spoiler I think.

I believe he's referring to scene 9-7, which depicts Satori reading the player's mind and recalling the nearly universally traumatizing scene 9-6 from StB, not the whole game.

So making the game difficult or challenging is trolling now? I know you're just explaining the logic, but I think it's still off-base.

[MaxKnight]

I've personally looked at using canon as a baseline for my writing but developing the characters into their own personalities over time.  There's certainly enough leeway to do such a thing that staying absolutely true to canon would start to feel rigid over time.

On the other hand, this throws a wrench in my own ideas, as I have to account for TD once I get that far (note: I'm nowhere near that far).  I'm just a little excited, though, as I've never played beyond IN...  I might just make TD my first post-IN Touhou that I ever play...

[Youkai of Tea]

So, I'm a bit confused about the Mima status now. I remember something about ZUN confirming in an interview or chat that Mima would not be in TH13 or was this just false information?

Edit: This was like 6 months ago or something like that.

[Dular]

Mima will not appear in the game, but all the faeries will look exactly like Mima.

[nintendonut888]

I don't think ZUN has ever officially said a word regarding Mima, but I did hear that in a Live stream of him talking with some other people he showed a vague feeling of disgust when the comments got flooded with "MIMA-SAMAAAAAAA" and such.

Also Ammy, it's not really a stretch to say that Satori recalling that particular scene was to poke fun at the players who played StB all the way through. Why else would he choose that specific scene out of all the others in the game?

[Serena]

New Touhou?
(ohmygod)¹⁰⁰⁰

I don't really care about Youmu, though. But she has nice hair this time, so yeah.

SPELLCARD PRATICE FUCK YEAH
*celebrationdance*

*ahem*

Anyway, I never really got what the big deal was about Mima, but then again I've only played Lotus Land Story. (and tried Mystic Square, but Yuki and Mai are ridiculously annoying so  :fail:).

[Tengukami]

Also Ammy, it's not really a stretch to say that Satori recalling that particular scene was to poke fun at the players who played StB all the way through. Why else would he choose that specific scene out of all the others in the game?

I dunno, to make the game fun or challenging?

[Alfred F. Jones]

Also Ammy, it's not really a stretch to say that Satori recalling that particular scene was to poke fun at the players who played StB all the way through. Why else would he choose that specific scene out of all the others in the game?

Because continuity is fun, and he likes playing around with Touhou's history courtesy of Satori (see: every Satori spellcard she uses in SA)? I don't see why it has to be "trolling", though. Just acknowledging what he did before.

[ふねん1]

Re: ZUN trolling - Double Spoi

Spoiler:

er 9-7 means there is a precedent for it. :V

No. DS Scene 9-7 actually makes perfect sense considering who Satori is and how she fights. It does mess with the 4th wall a bit, but it's not trolling as far as I'm concerned.

[?q]

Ammy - You're taking me way too seriously (see the :V ).

Satori's 9-7 was a direct reference to Shoot the Bullet, so yes, ZUN is acknowledging previous work.  There's nothing wrong with that at all.

The fact that the card that was recalled just happens to be what's considered one of, if not THE, hardest cards in Shoot the Bullet - except remade into a hilarious and nearly unsurvivable bullet spam - is pretty obviously poking fun at the fanbase.  But again, there's nothing WRONG with that at all.

I didn't mean for a derail of this magnitude.  We can move on now.

[Iryan]

If DS 9-7 is trolling, then Kogasa being the UFO Ex-midboss is trolling as well.  :derp:

Note that I predicted both StB 9-6 returning and Kogasa being UFO's Ex-midboss.

Also StB 9-6 is one of my fav cards from that game. It is the one spell card I have the most tries on, even!

[Tengukami]

"Trolling" implies that ZUN sat down at his computer, knowing just what would make you rage, and deliberately designed the game, or part of the game, with that goal in mind. Which is insane. Colonvee or no colonvee.

I didn't mean for a derail of this magnitude.  We can move on now.

Let's.

[trancehime]

One thing that reading this thread has taught me is that is indeed a fanbase that non-ironically wishes for Mima's return, and this shocks me. :S

I really don't see how this is surprising at all, considering that for the past, I dunno, 2 or 3 games, people have been wanting Mima back - non-ironically. I mean, it's not like it's ever going to happen, but people can dream, right? Besides, I secretly non-ironically want Meemer back as well - if only because PC-98 needs moar references and I'm just a biased fuck twat.

Anyway, I never really got what the big deal was about Mima, but then again I've only played Lotus Land Story. (and tried Mystic Square, but Yuki and Mai are ridiculously annoying so  :fail:).

you can't really complain about Mystic Square until you've hit Stage 5 and eventually Yumeko

aaaaaa HATE THAT STAGE

[theshirn]

you can't really complain about Mystic Square until you've hit Stage 5 and eventually Yumeko

aaaaaa HATE THAT STAGE

The stage isn't that bad but YUMEKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Iryan]

Yumeko is one of the most fun things in touhou. Okay, she slaughters me, but I wouldn't want to get slaughtered any other way~.

[miracle★cookie]

fun read.

suppose a quick summary wouldnt hurt, what we know so far (semi-facts):

*four playable characters: Reimu, Marisa, Sanae and Youmu
*spell practice is back, comes with Last Worlds probably
*10 fragments for lives and bombs...

Spoiler:

ten desires

*charge shot is back
*characters have special abilities...the last main game with char special skills was IN iirc?
*UFO-like spirits and the skull...

Spoiler:

hyper mode and stuff

*insert stuff i forgot*

now the fun speculations:
*Mima will return, cuz spirits! fans' fascination with the black history of touhou
*Orin will return, cuz spirits
*Shinki will return! cuz 神綺 -> 神霊廟 and Byakuren was foreshadowing the return of Shinki
*Sakuya is the last boss...if Ten Desires has anything to do with the 7 sins, she will be

Spoiler:

Maid of Envy

  :colonveeplusalpha:
*seeing how Reimu and co. have been to Makai (魔界) and Netherworld (冥界), the setting this time will be in the spirit world (霊界)
*no new characters will be introduced cuz

Spoiler:

風神録＋地霊殿=神霊廟

. consequently the final bossess will be

Spoiler:

Kanako and Okuu

*UFO crew might show up at some point, specifically Syou
*Shinreibyou will be a faction, just like Myourenji
*Kasen Ibara will debut in this game, and she will crush you with one hand
*Stage 4 bosses will be one of the playable characters, just like IN
*Ten desires has something to do with the spiritual realms of some Buddhism?
*stuff i missed

also

 :smug:

[Alfred F. Jones]

I really don't see how this is surprising at all, considering that for the past, I dunno, 2 or 3 games, people have been wanting Mima back - non-ironically. I mean, it's not like it's ever going to happen, but people can dream, right? Besides, I secretly non-ironically want Meemer back as well - if only because PC-98 needs moar references and I'm just a biased fuck twat.

Yes, but-- somehow, it was so dismissible as "ahahaha, people are just joking around again", and its true magnitude never struck me then. But now it has, and I'm absolutely stunned to see that Mima has a fanbase that really, really, REALLY wants her back.

Spoiler:

Why doesn't Yumemi have it, though? :<

Anyway, on-topic again:

Fingers crossed for Kasen. Definitely. Seeing as how she can punch out spirits with that delicious bandaged hand and all.

Also, the warping on Reimu's foot as she crosses to the red zone gives me Eversion vibes.

[theshirn]

Spoiler:

Why doesn't Yumemi have it, though? :<

Because she didn't get featured in four games, nor was she playable outside a Phantasmagoria.

I'd still love to see Yumemi come back...

[Iryan]

Also, the warping on Reimu's foot as she crosses to the red zone gives me Eversion vibes.

It is most likely going to be quite similar.
The "hyper" is actually crossing into the realm of spirits.
Considering that those orb-spirit-enemy-thingies are only on the screenshot where the background is swirly and the timer runs, i.e. in the world of spirits, I assume that the "hyper" actually summons additional enemies, namely them little spirit guys. This obviously raises difficulty and may prove leathal, but they also drop good stuff when you kill them or at the very least give massive score.

[/hypothesises]

[Ghaleon]

So many people want kasen, I want hatate dammit. Though I rekon well either get both or neither.

[Tengukami]

It is most likely going to be quite similar.
The "hyper" is actually crossing into the realm of spirits.
Considering that those orb-spirit-enemy-thingies are only on the screenshot where the background is swirly and the timer runs, i.e. in the world of spirits, I assume that the "hyper" actually summons additional enemies, namely them little spirit guys. This obviously raises difficulty and may prove leathal, but they also drop good stuff when you kill them or at the very least give massive score.

[/hypothesises]

This makes a great deal of sense, and sounds like more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

[Slaves]

*no new characters will be introduced

i will flip my shit and set japan on fire