Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread

[Milkyway64]

Only explanation I can think of is this boss gives out a TON of EXP.

I'll be confirming soon. I got to this boss last night at the recommended level for it's two guardians and got destroyed. I'm actually going to fight the enemies on floor 30 now just for the skillpoints, since I can't find the address for those on Cheat Engine.

When I finish this, I think I'm going to either do what you are doing and replay (floors 1-20) with new characters or "New Game Plus" with Cheat Engine to return myself to level550-700 (wherever I beat the final boss) before my first battle. :V Of course, one shotting every boss with a physical attack would be waaaaay to easy, but at least some of the later, more spoilerific bosses can get paid back for their jackassery.

Actually, I'll do both of those. NG+ should only take like 30 minutes to blow through, then I can start a new legit game after. Brilliant!

[Anima Zero]

Still playing this on the side, just grinding up for the 18F boss.  Reimu lv89 right now.

As I learned starting a grind session yesterday morning...never EVER leave a Angel Conception - Holy as the sole enemy in a battle (Those are the ones with the MND/DEF + full ATB gauge buff for the enemies).

I was under the assumption that they only sticked to that skill the whole time, meaning they were helpless as they get beaten to death.

It was working for a long time...then yesterday's grind as I started out, a solo AC - Holy threw a God Press in my party's face for 12k-16k each.  Hello full party wipe!

[Ghaleon]

Yeah I have to say the quality of the game during floors 1-20 is better than 21-30. The bosses were more different, and challenging in different ways for 1-20. But afterwards, it really just feels like they all are difficult only in the "this move of mine simply 1shots you if you aren't level appropriate", or "I cast focus when I'm nearly dead and you have to nuke like hell or else get 1shot".

The items are a helluva lot less exciting too. I mean I just hate going exploring thru floor 27, finding a chest, getting excited hoping for something great, and getting "lion heart soul". I mean on floor 27!?! really?! Or one of the "+128% to one stat" items. I'm sorry but nobody really needs those when you can get +70% to like 5 diff stats from floor 20 items. Please.

Then there's the occasional chest that gives you 60-120k skillpoints...Which is what you get from  A SINGLE BATTLE. wooo.

I mean I still think the game is great, but the plus disk really didn't maintain the standard they set for themselves with the original IMO.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Another grinding lesson for all who play: Never run around blindly in new floors. Just because you know there aren't any optional bosses to run into (or any left to run into, as was the case was for me since I already knew where all the optional beeches on the floor were) doesn't mean you can't accidentally run into a guardian boss for a blocked path on the next floor...

Seems its grind time for me... I can't do much until I'm able to take on the stuff on floor 15 with ease. I guess I should ask for some opinions on my current team:

Spoiler:

Tenshi + Meiling: Obligatory walls
Yuugi: Another wall, but the abundance of magic is making me wonder if I should drop her out for Komachi, especially due to a lack of status inflictors(particularly PAR)/debuffers
Raymoo + Marisa: Obvious
Patchy: Obvious
Ran: Support and second Raymoo
Sanae: Main source of healing
Eirin: Secondary healer and semi-tank. Trying to figure out which attack is better for enemies since most seem to be doing "meh" damage despite her good stats, including Astranomical Entombing.
Reisen: Debuffer. Will likely drop for Orin, but for now focuses on weakening, which she does well thanks to her high speed.
Chen: Sadly starting to lose her steam. Flight of Itaden spam still works, but only half as often as before (3 vs what could easily be 6 before) and doesn't do nearly as good damage as my other physical attackers. Phoenix Wing Spread is better, but has noticably worse delay.
Nitori: Physical Marisa. Has to use Optical Camo before spamming her ray gun due to the delay, as the speed boost really helps.

[Ghaleon]

Another grinding lesson for all who play: Never run around blindly in new floors.

Hehe, yup. Though at your level you're actually pretty safe to do just that soon. At a certain point in the game, (like floor 18+) where it's normally safe to run around as much as you like. Bosses tend to be in areas that look suspiciously boss-like. I mean, for example you'll be in a floor littered with long halls, when suddenly one widens into a huge room at the exact center of the top of the stage or something, it just screams "INCOMING BOSS". Hong and Suwako mk2 are kinda sneaky though (on floor 20), as is the (easy anyway) sigil guardian on floor 22.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Out of curiosity, are you able to fight the MK2 bosses using the proper character? Like if I fought Hong 2.0 and Chen 2.0, could I still use Hong and Chen? Or would they be taken out of the party and brainwashed or something for sake of an event of some sort?

[Ghaleon]

You can use them, you might not want to though since it trivilizes the fight since they suddenly get 5 million hp and such like the actual boss....KIDDING.

Nah, you can use em, nothing new.

[Serela]

Chen: Sadly starting to lose her steam. Flight of Itaden spam still works, but only half as often as before (3 vs what could easily be 6 before) and doesn't do nearly as good damage as my other physical attackers. Phoenix Wing Spread is better, but has noticably worse delay.

Later in the game you need to start using Kimontonkou even in random battles if you want her to do good damage, but she's insanely great when you do. It only takes a battle or two with her in reserve to regain all her SP as well, so her low Max SP isn't a huge problem.

Also, I've been wondering, is Meiling really a great wall...? I mean, I use her for awhile, but I dropped her in my first playthrough about halfway through. Remi has much better MND, only slightly worse DEF and HP... and she has a 60% self-buff (GREATLY increasing her tankiness), and before long you can give her good equipment that also easily raises resistances to 34+ so she won't get PSN or PAR. Meiling's healing capabilities and slightly higher HP/DEF don't seem to hold a candle to what Remilia has to offer, or 10F girl.

[edit]Checked the wiki, apparently Remi actually has BETTER HP and Def growth then Meiling, in addition to her much better MND and awesome self-buff. Meiling's is only better because I give her all DEF lvlup bonuses instead of Remi's ATK. Seriously, Meiling is just looking worse and worse :<

[Garlyle]

Later in the game you need to start using Kimontonkou even in random battles if you want her to do good damage, but she's insanely great when you do. It only takes a battle or two with her in reserve to regain all her SP as well, so her low Max SP isn't a huge problem.

Also, I've been wondering, is Meiling really a great wall...? I mean, I use her for awhile, but I dropped her in my first playthrough about halfway through. Remi has much better MND, only slightly worse DEF and HP... and she has a 60% self-buff (GREATLY increasing her tankiness), and before long you can give her good equipment that also easily raises resistances to 34+ so she won't get PSN or PAR. Meiling's healing capabilities and slightly higher HP/DEF don't seem to hold a candle to what Remilia has to offer, or 10F girl.

[edit]Checked the wiki, apparently Remi actually has BETTER HP and Def growth then Meiling, in addition to her much better MND and awesome self-buff. Meiling's is only better because I give her all DEF lvlup bonuses instead of Remi's ATK. Seriously, Meiling is just looking worse and worse :<

Remilia also levels so much slower than Meiling that Meiling will generally be ahead in DEF and HP.  Meiling also has fairly good natural affinities (Mostly due to a lack of weaknesses) and half-decent ailment resistances overall.  Her healing may not seem all that powerful, and it's not, but being able to keep herself alive by herself as a tank is something your other tanks can't do.  Plus, she's able to well-support your party via Healer, too.  She's not exceptional against anything, but her defensive stats overall are high enough that stuff that would take out any other character - even the uber-DEF/MND tank and the uber-HP tank, to take the extremes - she'll survive.  She's there to be a wall and soak up damage while healing herself and removing ailments.  Just don't expect her to do damage output.

[Ghaleon]

I like having both out personally. Not because I like to heal vlad either, I make sure remi is immune to poi and par so I don't have to worry. But Hong's heals are actually significant. Her self heal is significant for her, and her cure/heal thingie is actually very effective if you use low-health squishy people alot like I do. Patchy, kaggy, tenshin (when Remi needs to recover sp, I swap her with tenshin sometimes), etc generally go from near-death to full from hong's puny heal =D.

Anyway, as much as I think Remi's completely uber stats make her good at pretty much anything, I prefer her as a dpser rather than a tank. She can really dish out some damage (lots of people seem to think she doesn't damage well, but nobody who does more damage than her is NEARLY as speedy as her, if you factor speed in, she does alot of damage). Plus, later on in the game, IMO you need 2 tanky characters out during alot of the boss fights. Alot have row-attack physical attacks that will probably slaughter people in the first AND second slots if they aren't beefy.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Plus, later on in the game, IMO you need 2 tanky characters out during alot of the boss fights. Alot have row-attack physical attacks that will probably slaughter people in the first AND second slots if they aren't beefy.

I find this is true early-game as well. Especially since single-target attacks are extremely likely to hit the first two rows (first one more likely, but its not unusual if say.... Youmu decides to use Slash of Eternity on the second person rather than the first, with the last two being least likely to take the hit).

Right now I tend to prefer skybitch, Hong, and drunken bitch for slot one, and slot two is either one of the remaining two, medicine bitch, golden bitch, or Reimu. Last two are the less durables, with uber-squishies like Patchy pretty much not allowed to leave the furthest slot back anytime they're out and about.

[Ghaleon]

I think I should report you for sexism, apparently you think every female is a bitch. tsk >=P

[MysTeariousYukari]

15F... W.T.F! Even Cursed Remi does only 2500-4500 per Spear to those Blackenmels or whatever, Fantasy Seal = 0, Asteroid Belt = 4500~ Royal Flare = Impossible due to already dead, and to top it off... Mountain Breaker = 0... like I said, WTF!

Meanwhile I feel like ":dragonforce:" and defeat

Spoiler:

Mokou, for once >_>

[Pesco]

For those silly things that take no damage, use Rumia or Chen for their ignore defense attacks. Enemies like that don't have much HP anyway.

14F bosses are all cleared. Lily sigil is still being gay with Huge Earthquake. Does it only use that move at a certain HP breakpoint? And since it's not a crucial boss, I'm thinking of coming back to it once my levels trivialize him (though I'm plenty overlevelled but not enough to fight 16F whore yet).

[MysTeariousYukari]

Well Pesco/Pes con't go I beat the 14F Sigil Guardian 1st try >_>

Spoiler:

Or rather, I beat both of them 1st try. The one the looks like Alice's 3 minions from the fight against her seems to resist Stat down and PAR, but PSN works wonders. I think it had about 150K-200K HP, roughly.

Edit: Ok what floor was it for

Spoiler:

Blue Sabers? 13F? If so, what foe drops it? I have spent like half and hour or more grinding their hoping for 1 and I still have 0

[Serela]

Edit: Ok what floor was it for

Spoiler:

Blue Sabers? 13F? If so, what foe drops it? I have spent like half and hour or more grinding their hoping for 1 and I still have 0

I believe I got a few on 18F as well.

For those silly things that take no damage, use Rumia or Chen for their ignore defense attacks. Enemies like that don't have much HP anyway.

Chen's doesn't really ignore defense, I think. But it is effective on those. Also, Minoriko's Falling Leaves of Madness (only factors in 10% of target MND) works well.

[MysTeariousYukari]

I just checked, it's 15F-18F for it, not the 13F like I thought >_>

Oh well, I gained like 4 levels from that so it's worth it:D

Chen, Rumia, Minoriko... I only have Chen in my main 12, of those 3 char >.> Looks like I'll need to grind moar. Wewt!

[Pesco]

Blue Sabers drop from knight enemies and I assure you they are available from 13F. The drop rate is crap, what can you do...

The jap wiki suggested using guage reduction on Huge Assquake guardian. But the reduction isn't that much, even when I use Sakuya to team SPD buff to get in more hits.

[Anima Zero]

For Lily Sigil guardian, do NOT under any circumstances throw tons of debuffs on it (Like using 7F girl's 3rd skill).  It does not like that and will likely throw a game ending Huge Earthquake in your face.

On my end...went after the 18F boss once Reimu hit lv100.  Took two tries.  First one didn't count because the opener decided to 1shot 8F healer girl .

Second go around was surprisingly the winner here.  I wasn't expecting it to go as well as it did.  There were some close calls of course where I had to risk 8F healer girl's life by bringing her out for healing due to Reimu being out of SP/low on SP, but I took the boss down without a single person dying.

New character gained who's pretty solid.  Nice skillset, good stats (Aside from having to knock said person's TP up via skill points a good amount cause it stunk), not too bad at soaking up damage (Around Remi in terms of defenses).

Seems like I should spend level up points in 18F character's ATK stat here, which I did.

After loading the new character up with good equips and saved, started to explore 19F some.

Amazingly enough, the enemies are overall less annoying than on 18F (Except oh god new spinny tops enemies like the ones from 10F-12F that are much faster than Remi).

And the XPs...winnage.

Reimu lv103 right now.

[Deranged]

Blue Sabers drop from knight enemies and I assure you they are available from 13F. The drop rate is crap, what can you do...

The jap wiki suggested using guage reduction on Huge Assquake guardian. But the reduction isn't that much, even when I use Sakuya to team SPD buff to get in more hits.

If you can beat 14f second optional, you can definitely beat that boss. He's fairly easy with the right strategy.

Spoiler:

He uses Huge Earthquake every turn that he has SPD down on him. Otherwise, he'd use Rasetsu Fist (defense-ignoring 7kish attack) or Huge Tremor Strike (a weaker version of Huge Earthquake). There's two basic ways to go about killing him;

1. Use Alice and Eirin and specifically lower only his ATK, then fight him normally. This makes his moves somewhat more survivable, and it becomes a fairly standard boss fight with appropriate levels. Your tanks should equip a mixture of NTR resistance to deal with Huge Tremor Strike and HP to deal with Rasetsu Fist. Unfortunately, Rasetsu Fist target tends to be random, so your back row will always be at danger.

2. Build your tanks (probably Tenshi and Meiling) to go full on NTR resistance, giving them a Green Dream each as well as Egg of Life, Power Dragon Scalemail if you have them, Hirami Lemons if you don't. Purposely inflict as much SPD and ATK down on him with Reisen, Cirno, Alice, Komachi and Eirin when his active gauge is low, and buff your two tanks' DEF.  Have two sacrifical lambs die to Huge Earthquake on it's first use; your tanks should easily survive it. Most likely these two sacrifical lambs can be your other debuffers if you brought Reisen along, since once you get his stats down low, Reisen can keep him hovering at -30~50% by herself, as nerf his DEF and MND for your attackers as well.

After each huge earthquake, have your two tanks switch in healers, buffers and debuffers if needed, and attackers if not; before the guardian gets his turn, switch the other two non-tank characters back and leave two slots empty, survive Huge Earthquake again, then repeat. Chen and Aya make really good attackers here since they can buff themselves, attack several times, then switch themselves out before the guardian gets a turn; Aya especially since it's weak to WND.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Ahhh that thing.

Spoiler:

I found the Lily Sigil Guardian, if it's 1 of the 2 boss things on 14F, to be easy. If it's not 1 of those 2, then I probly didn't fight it, but I mapped 14F completly and fought a boss version of the Dark Eye from 10F-12F as well as 3 spirit things as 1 target and neither were TO much trouble for me.

Blue Sabers drop from knight enemies and I assure you they are available from 13F. The drop rate is crap, what can you do...

Ahh, when I said 15-18, I meant for a sane drop rate. Touhou wiki itself lists the 13-14 drop for the Sabers as "? Drop" which i think means Rare Drop, and it lists the 15-18 as a normal drop, thus normal rate... I think...

All in all, things are good for me :3

[AlexX Unlimited]

I think I should report you for sexism, apparently you think every female is a bitch. tsk >=P

The spoilertags are really starting to annoy me, so I'm just referring to each of them them by ___bitch names that could reasonably be applied to more than one character in the series to get around it.

In other news I'm emberassed that first optional at 14F keeps murdering me when I know for a fact I can beat her (I managed to get a good pattern down once and only lost due to a dumb random DTH infliction to someone I thought was reasonably resistant to it).

[MysTeariousYukari]

Alex, I would avoid that boss for a while... It's just seems stupidly random to win, even if you have High MND chars out with decent innate DTH resist and 3 Rings of Hades per char fighting, meaning 12 minimum, 36 rings to cover 12 chars safely X.X

For nicknames how about Jerk instead of b****? This way, no one should have to report anyone for sexism, or any BS like that :3

[AlexX Unlimited]

Well, Pesco suggested making all names "bitch on the XX floor", so I just worked with that (though since some like floor 12 have more than one I was pretty much forced to specify a tad).

Anyway, I find that 38+ resistance to a status effect qualifies as "good enough" for an immunity, not to mention I really want her so that I can get the character she makes available...

[Serela]

Anyway, I find that 38+ resistance to a status effect qualifies as "good enough" for an immunity, not to mention I really want her so that I can get the character she makes available...

34 is immune to everything that doesn't have over 100% chance to hit (Which the guide says a few DTH attacks are)

[MysTeariousYukari]

Quick question? For every hudred in an Element Affinity, how much dmg is taken off? I know that 100 Affinity = 100% dmg and I heard that 200 Affinity = 80% dmg, whats the rest?

Spoiler:

Also, Tenshi/10F super tank jerk is mine And Mokou is almost mine as well, Meiling got hit with 10~ Fujiyama Volcanos before she got KO'ed >xD

[Serela]

Quick question? For every hudred in an Element Affinity, how much dmg is taken off? I know that 100 Affinity = 100% dmg and I heard that 200 Affinity = 80% dmg, whats the rest?

Spoiler:

Also, Tenshi/10F super tank jerk is mine And Mokou is almost mine as well, Meiling got hit with 10~ Fujiyama Volcanos before she got KO'ed >xD

The formula is Damage(100/Affinity).

So, 10 affinity is 10x damage, 50 is x2, 150 is 2/3, 200 is half, 300 is 1/3, 500 is 20%.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Thanks NeoSerela:D

Spoiler:

Roughly how much HP does Mokou have left once she uses that Res move of hers? 100k? 150k? 200k? Ect...

[Serela]

Thanks NeoSerela:D

Spoiler:

Roughly how much HP does Mokou have left once she uses that Res move of hers? 100k? 150k? 200k? Ect...

I think it was about 80k. So make sure 90%+MAG buffed Marisa's Master Spark can do at least that much damage to her and keep her in reserve to bring out after the boss uses that, and nuke. Speed buffing her first also helps a lot, to make sure she'll move first.

[trancehime]

Spoiler:

On the 20th ***THE VICTOR*** fight. Starting to get looooooong.