8th [Annual] Touhou Popularity Poll! (Results included!)

[Tengukami]

I like how you people drop the word "overrated" while a vote is a singular subjective choice of one person. There is no media hype (aside from possible passive influence). Just because you think the song is overrated, doesn't mean it is.

When I say something is "overrated," all I mean is that the praise doesn't equal the content. As much as people gush and squee about Septette, at the end of the day, it's a fine theme and a well-composed piece, and that's about it. Although please bear in mind I'm not trying to objectively prove the song is overrated - it's all entirely subjective. I do really like Septette. I just don't see it living up to all the praise it gets.

On a serious note. Even if septette is derived from Beethoven, probably that is the cause for it being valued a nice composed piece of work.

Probably. A more musically technical person than I could probably better explain what devices both Beethoven and ZUN are using in both pieces.

What kind of surprised me and makes me wonder is: Where did the mass popularity for Yuka suddenly came from?

I've wondered this myself I don't know how many times in the past eight months or so.

Yuka fans: for those who find Flandre fans too serious and mature. :trollface:

[Shadoweh]

Yuka fans: for those who find Flandre fans too serious and mature.

Beside homocidal tendencies I don't think Flandre and Yuka have much in common.
Maybe an answer from an actual Yuka fan would help? Besides her in-game portrayal as a cheerful troll, the Yuka vs Yukari doujin is what caught my attention, as well as Tag Dream and the Yuukarin 4koma with Wriggle. In alot of fanworks, when Yuka appears things become Serious Business(TM). That feeling of presence she's portrayed with is probably my favorite part. Also PMiSS is written like Akyu is Yuka's biggest fangirl.

Theory 2: Touhou players are masochists.

Spoiler:

PS: Cosmic Mind is better then Sepette

[Pesco]

Phantom Ensemble is mai waifu

:trollface:

[Conqueror]

Similarities between Septette and 3rd Movement of Pathetique:

Same key.
Start with the same 8 notes, repeated throughout both songs as a motif.
Other minor technical stuff that any decent song would have.

I guess you could call it sampling. Otherwise they sound completely different to me.

[Suwako Moriya]

Maybe an answer from an actual Yuka fan would help?

It might be easier to just throw Outlandish Blooming Rapport at you and everyone else for why I love Yuuka, but I'll try here anyway.

Yuuka is awesome because (in no particular order):

- Neat character design: PC-98 outfit looks like something you'd expect of a gardener, and the Window's outfit is simple yet elegant.
- Visually appealing figure: I am of the state of mind that there's no real harm in objectifying 2-D women as long as those tendencies don't spill over into affecting real people. Nor do I think liking a 2-D woman for her visual appeal is necessarily a bad thing. All that being said, Yuuka's pretty damn hot. >_>
- Great music: Flower Land is crazy catchy and Inanimate Dream is awesome (and its Sengoku Gensokyo remix is absolutely flooring).
- Power: sup Double Spark while half-asleep (also notice how StB and DS avoided her entirely)
- Demeanor: I'm actually not really one for the psychotic characterization. The Yuuka I love is the one that knows just how amazing she is and does things when she wants to because she wants to and knows she can get away with them. Very straightforward and down-to-earth; everything is what it is. Civil and gentle, and willing and able to stick a laser up your ass while the warm smile never leaves her face should she decide you deserve it. Go play Sengoku Gensokyo or read Tag Dream or Four Season's House (or OBR <_<) to see Yuuka acting awesome.

[Gpop]

Okay forgot to post about my opinion here as well but here goes.

Koishi being 15th PLEASES ME SO VERY GREATLY. Soon, the Komeiji sisters will dominate the top 10.

Sakuya...pity votes from not being UFO obviously =/ Same goes for Remi, except for being the biggest loli ever. fanon continues to dominate over canon it seems

Sanae's UFO dialogue and all killed her

Septette will ALWAYS be overrated as hell because of great arrangements. NO ONE WILL EVER CONSIDER THE ORIGINAL MORE THAN OTHERS. Jesus, I mean, the arrangements of Septette are USUALLY AMAZING, but can't deny the fact that the instruments kill the original. It DOES have great composition though, but I know there are MUCH better out there from ZUN.

I'm actually REALLY happy that Yuka moved to third. Actually, I think this was the biggest shock factor from all the characters, I mean NO ONE would ever expected that. Congratz, because Yuka used to be my fave character until Koishi came around <3

Yeah.

[orinrin]

I think the better question is: Why wasn't Yuuka 3rd in the previous polls?  She seems much more popular than the MCs IMO.

[Gpop]

I think the better question is: Why wasn't Yuuka 3rd in the previous polls?  She seems much more popular than the MCs IMO.

I thought she much more popular before as well, which also raises the shock value of her popularity. I mean, I thought the Yuka craze was dying recently while I've noticed much more notice on Koishi. Well for Yuka...apparently not.

[Helepolis]

When someone tells me that X is popular without plenty to back it up, my immediate response is to think that X just isn't nearly as impressive as people think. I'm not a fan of a lot of different things, but when I'm told why someone enjoys something so much and there's plenty of reasoning to back it up, my impression is "this is just not my thing" instead of "this is something I just can't support". I have PLENTY of reasoning behind my choices, so when someone doesn't respond with a lot of reasoning for their own favorites, I'm not impressed. I don't want to associate with someone who enjoys one of my favorite characters exclusively for sex appeal. It's a base and shallow reason for liking anyone.

I could write a full essay why Septette has struck me deeply when the first time I heard it. I enjoy playing the SWR version on my guitar as well (I enjoy most songs anyway on my guitar). The thing is that music piece discussions always end up wrong.

Example: Even if you explained how stupid or bad 'hardcore' for example is, as long as the person who likes the genre enjoys it, does it matter what the reasoning is?!?!  Music is something you have to feel. You cannot judge music objectively. No matter what kind of reasoning you come up with, it won't add to the discussion, unless you throw it on technical aspects. But then it becomes more of a technical discussion.It would more like reflect how you became charmed by the piece and how you think about it. Some might agree, some might disagree. You cannot expect everybody to be at the same level during such discussions as well. Let us not forget, many people also quickly tie Touhou music to the characters. As in, if someone likes Satori, he/she isn't quickly going to say: "Man, Satori is awesome but her themesong is so shit". But that could be also because ZUN knows how to compose music for characters.

Anyway, to be honest, I could care less if Septette would be #1 #2 or #10. My interest was more when the poll started, I was already wondering whether Cosmic Mind would kick Border of Life away. And it did. Who knows next year Cosmic Mind might kick off Septette from #1. Nobody knows.

When I say something is "overrated," all I mean is that the praise doesn't equal the content. As much as people gush and squee about Septette, at the end of the day, it's a fine theme and a well-composed piece, and that's about it.

Ah I see. I agree with the same. It is a fine theme, but that's about it indeed. It is not like THE BEST theme for me. I don't have #1 #2 etc theme in Touhou. Hence I did not even vote for anything. I enjoy a lot of pieces composed by ZUN.

Although please bear in mind I'm not trying to objectively prove the song is overrated - it's all entirely subjective. I do really like Septette. I just don't see it living up to all the praise it gets.

Point taken. Questionable indeed why Septette is getting praised so much. Is there anything known about this? Word from ZUN perhaps who might be also wondering?

Septette will ALWAYS be overrated as hell because of great arrangements. NO ONE WILL EVER CONSIDER THE ORIGINAL MORE THAN OTHERS. Jesus, I mean, the arrangements of Septette are USUALLY AMAZING, but can't deny the fact that the instruments kill the original. It DOES have great composition though, but I know there are MUCH better out there from ZUN.

When ZUN composed songs for EoSD, he did not had the same quality as for latter games. Therefore any arrangement or fan re-do of any EoSD songs would sound better. If Septette would be remastered by ZUN himself, nobody knows if it would be better or worse. Sometimes, some things are best left in their original state.

[HakureiSM]

Hah!

:smug:

I will seriously never understand what's so great about Cosmic Mind, as to me it sounds like the theme to a 90s mecha anime

This. It's kind of plain =/
But it's still music anyway.

*going technical on music*

Someone once told me that Santana was a shit guitarrist because he only used simple techniques a 5-year old is capable of. I just laughed and went to do something else.
You see, music is art, and as such there *are* several devices and techniques, of course, to be used in the process of conveying the emotions the composer wants to pass on, but in the end those are only devices, with no hard science to sustain them.
It's the end result that determines the quality of a work, as in how well those emotions, feelings and ideas are contained in the art piece.
I'm going to (assume games are a form of art, because in my opinion they are, and) take as example GTAIV and um, Portal, or even the Touhou series itself.
Three examples of games that have touched me and left a mark, great works indeed.
The difference is that a fuckton of people, among programmers, designers, sociologists, dubbers, even radio DJs, was necessary to finish GTAIV as it is, while Portal was developed by just a small team, and as we know the main Touhou games are done by a single man.

What I'm trying to say is it doesn't matter if Septette and the 3rd movement repeat the same 8 notes all the way instead of going super-elaborated, or what not.
They're successful in conquering people's hearts, that's what art is about lol. There's definitely something in Cosmic Mind that doesn't appeal to me but people go crazy over too.

I think I said way more than I intended :derp:

[Gpop]

When ZUN composed songs for EoSD, he did not had the same quality as for latter games. Therefore any arrangement or fan re-do of any EoSD songs would sound better. If Septette would be remastered by ZUN himself, nobody knows if it would be better or worse. Sometimes, some things are best left in their original state.

In that case I'd still remain the same until he can make a re-arrangement of that song. Otherwise, I still find it overrated by fan arranges. I still think EoSD instrumentation ruined it despite it's great composition

[Tengukami]

You see, music is art, and as such there *are* several devices and techniques, of course, to be used in the process of conveying the emotions the composer wants to pass on, but in the end those are only devices, with no hard science to sustain them.
It's the end result that determines the quality of a work, as in how well those emotions, feelings and ideas are contained in the art piece.
I'm going to (assume games are a form of art, because in my opinion they are, and) take as example GTAIV and um, Portal, or even the Touhou series itself.
Three examples of games that have touched me and left a mark, great works indeed.
The difference is that a fuckton of people, among programmers, designers, sociologists, dubbers, even radio DJs, was necessary to finish GTAIV as it is, while Portal was developed by just a small team, and as we know the main Touhou games are done by a single man.

What I'm trying to say is it doesn't matter if Septette and the 3rd movement repeat the same 8 notes all the way instead of going super-elaborated, or what not.
They're successful in conquering people's hearts, that's what art is about lol. There's definitely something in Cosmic Mind that doesn't appeal to me but people go crazy over too.

I think I said way more than I intended :derp:

Very well said all the same!

[Barrakketh]

If Septette would be remastered by ZUN himself, nobody knows if it would be better or worse. Sometimes, some things are best left in their original state.

I think if ZUN re-did Septette with newer instruments (anything from PCB or later) I think it would be well received.

- Great music: Flower Land is crazy catchy

It's okay, but I never really liked it (meaning I would listen to it out of the game) until I heard this arrangement.

As for catchy, I'm fond of this track from PoFV, which happens to be for a character I don't particularly care for.

[Kips McKipzerson]

It might be easier to just throw Outlandish Blooming Rapport at you and everyone else for why I love Yuuka, but I'll try here anyway.

Yuuka is awesome because (in no particular order):

- Neat character design: PC-98 outfit looks like something you'd expect of a gardener, and the Window's outfit is simple yet elegant.
- Visually appealing figure: I am of the state of mind that there's no real harm in objectifying 2-D women as long as those tendencies don't spill over into affecting real people. Nor do I think liking a 2-D woman for her visual appeal is necessarily a bad thing. All that being said, Yuuka's pretty damn hot. >_>
- Great music: Flower Land is crazy catchy and Inanimate Dream is awesome (and its Sengoku Gensokyo remix is absolutely flooring).
- Power: sup Double Spark while half-asleep (also notice how StB and DS avoided her entirely)
- Demeanor: I'm actually not really one for the psychotic characterization. The Yuuka I love is the one that knows just how amazing she is and does things when she wants to because she wants to and knows she can get away with them. Very straightforward and down-to-earth; everything is what it is. Civil and gentle, and willing and able to stick a laser up your ass while the warm smile never leaves her face should she decide you deserve it. Go play Sengoku Gensokyo or read Tag Dream or Four Season's House (or OBR <_<) to see Yuuka acting awesome.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Conqueror]

Someone once told me that Santana was a shit guitarrist because he only used simple techniques a 5-year old is capable of. I just laughed and went to do something else.
You see, music is art, and as such there *are* several devices and techniques, of course, to be used in the process of conveying the emotions the composer wants to pass on, but in the end those are only devices, with no hard science to sustain them.
It's the end result that determines the quality of a work, as in how well those emotions, feelings and ideas are contained in the art piece.
I'm going to (assume games are a form of art, because in my opinion they are, and) take as example GTAIV and um, Portal, or even the Touhou series itself.
Three examples of games that have touched me and left a mark, great works indeed.
The difference is that a fuckton of people, among programmers, designers, sociologists, dubbers, even radio DJs, was necessary to finish GTAIV as it is, while Portal was developed by just a small team, and as we know the main Touhou games are done by a single man.

What I'm trying to say is it doesn't matter if Septette and the 3rd movement repeat the same 8 notes all the way instead of going super-elaborated, or what not.
They're successful in conquering people's hearts, that's what art is about lol. There's definitely something in Cosmic Mind that doesn't appeal to me but people go crazy over too.

I think I said way more than I intended :derp:

Just saying for the record that I agree with you, if I gave off the impression that I meant something else. My post was just pointing out that the two songs were, in my opinion, completely different. But I still like both of them!

[Drake]

The implication that either Flandre or Yuuka are murderous psychopaths is like a spark in the pool of kerosene for my frustration at the Touhou fanbase.

[Shadoweh]

The implication that either Flandre or Yuuka are murderous psychopaths is like a spark in the pool of kerosene for my frustration at the Touhou fanbase.

That's not really what I meant even if it's a common interpretation. Yuuka and Flandre are just more likely be depicted murdering someone then say Lily White or Marisa. It doesn't help that in canon Yuuka jokes about genocide and Flandre accidentally the humans enough to stay locked in the basement.

[Drake]

Flandre has been locked up since she was five; it's probably more of "if let out long enough she could" rather than "she has".

anyways tangent

[orinrin]

Anyways, everyone knows that the best theme will always be Haigoku Lullaby.   :trollface:

[Yakitori]

Anyways, everyone knows that the best theme will always be Haigoku Lullaby.   :trollface:

Scarborough Fair FTW! :trollface:

[N-Forza]

Sanae's UFO dialogue and all killed her

Really? If anything, it made me love her more, and her attitude in it seemed to spawn some reasonably popular memes.

I think some really popular videos with Yuuka hit Nicovideo recently, a few weeks before voting. Maybe that had something to do with it...

[Recon 5]

How Evil Impoverished N*** Zombie Reimu got 1st in three polls straight is what I'd like to know. In so many fanworks she's either a joke or exactly what I called her in that first sentence- so what made so many people vote for her? What would it take to move her down even 1 spot?

I have nothing against Reimu but so many people seem to  that I'm surprised it hasn't made a difference.

[Gpop]

Really? If anything, it made me love her more, and her attitude in it seemed to spawn some reasonably popular memes.

I think it turned many people's heads when she went from "good girl" to "youkai nazi"

[ふねん1]

Regarding Sanae, it's been like 1 and a half years since UFO was released. I don't think there would be any "hype" left over from her appearance in that game. If anything, the hype this year belongs to Yuuka, judging from people here saying that there were recently made fanworks that featured her. I call her dropping back down by next year though.

How Evil Impoverished N*** Zombie Reimu got 1st in three polls straight is what I'd like to know.

Um, perhaps because she's the main character of the series?

[Recon 5]

Um, perhaps because she's the main character of the series?

I used to think that was all that mattered in these polls, but after seeing the treatment she gets in many newer doujin I sort of revised my opinion. Everything I called her in my post is something one fanwork or another made her our to be, which makes her still getting the #1 spot  a bit baffling.

[orinrin]

I used to think that was all that mattered in these polls, but after seeing the treatment she gets in many newer doujin I sort of revised my opinion. Everything I called her in my post is something one fanwork or another made her our to be, which makes her still getting the #1 spot  a bit baffling.

Every doujin I've read involving her pretty much centers the entire story around her so IDK what you're reading.

[Mimachiro]

You know, I just thought of something that might explain Yuka's rise in popularity. A lot of people has been trying to compare Yuka to Kogasa. Maybe that prompted Yuka fans to vote for her in place of more recent characters? Just a thought. I haven't been keeping my eyes glued to the latest Touhou doujin, so that could be the big factor, too.

[HakureiSM]

if I gave off the impression that I meant something else.

It did, a bit, but I was just mostly using your post as an opportunity to say that stuff, because I've wanted to say it for a while :V

Evil Impoverished N*** Zombie Reimu

Great horrible memetic view you have of the series's core character.
Also like Bogus said, I don't know what you're reading, because even in the most pathetic lololol armpits cheap poor miko doujin I've seen she's usually the central character, or at least leaves a strong impression as a big appearance when she shows up.

[Shadoweh]

There's also the theory that the fandumb LIKES Evil Impoverished N*** Zombie Reimu. I'm pretty sure it's the homing amulets though. downwithreimuupwithmarisa!

[Ghaleon]

I have to add that I too think Cosmic mind is very unimpressive to my ears. Seeing border of life getting knocked down is tragic.
I honestly don't know what I should say I like more with Touhou music. One one side, I like Zun's arrangement of Border of life more than Septette, but I like the composition of Septette more. Does that make sense? Flight of a bamboo cutter is my other top song, its position is pretty unimpressive for a final boss theme, they generally tend to be rated rather high.

And yeah, wtf did Yuuka come from? hax.
I'm also glad Sanae fell down some, but honestly, I too actually grew to liking her more with UFO. I don't play the fighting games at all, and I guess that's where her good girl thing comes from, but just my first impression of her in MoF and SA really made her strike me as a douche to be honest.

Last, am I the only person lawling that the 3 fairies actually are going DOWN after GFW?!