Author Topic: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread  (Read 318062 times)

Chaore

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #330 on: December 14, 2009, 10:41:59 PM »
Hehe, on floor 20 are these blue robot trash mobs that move very fast, hit ridiculously hard, but don't have many hp (compared to other floor 20 trash that is). They ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS 1shot reimu first t hing, like 20 out of 20 times, they pick reimu out and *gibs*. argh.
Those things are weak to fire, incredibly. Patchy+F5 = Dead, Dead, DEAD.

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #331 on: December 14, 2009, 11:19:55 PM »
Screw this. I'm leveling. This boss seems pretty luck based with his beginning of the end of time or whatever attack being thrown in whenever the hell he wants to kill someone. I DID get him to his final phase, but with a paralysed Marisa and Remilia and all but useless tenshi, beside another character not meant to take physical attacks.

To level 100, I guess...

Anima Zero

  • Captain of the Spear
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #332 on: December 14, 2009, 11:23:10 PM »
Lordy mapping 13F today was a little bit of a pain.  I managed to get to the 14F stairs after nearly mapping out all of the level, then used the wiki to figure out how to get into two areas I hadn't mapped yet and couldn't figure out the right combination for the life of me.

The swordfish problem was largely remedied by swapping my 10F girl for my 7F girl to utilize her crapton of HP to take their blows.

Scored some really nice items from treasures here (Lion King's Soul = I want more).

Guess I'll be exploring 14F tomorrow.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..." Zero, Mega Man Zero 4

Ghaleon

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #333 on: December 15, 2009, 03:38:04 AM »
Those things are weak to fire, incredibly. Patchy+F5 = Dead, Dead, DEAD.

Yeah I know, they get off a shot before they die though. You absolutely have to nuke them down from half health or more to dead though, don't ever let them go below that or you lose due to red laser hahaha IWIN spam. Whatever that move is called.

Chaore

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #334 on: December 15, 2009, 03:39:25 AM »
Yeah I know, they get off a shot before they die though. You absolutely have to nuke them down from half health or more to dead though, don't ever let them go below that or you lose due to red laser hahaha IWIN spam. Whatever that move is called.
Pretty much, For some reason Cirno and Marisa have good defense against it though...

Ghaleon

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #335 on: December 15, 2009, 03:40:02 AM »
Screw this. I'm leveling. This boss seems pretty luck based with his beginning of the end of time or whatever attack being thrown in whenever the hell he wants to kill someone. I DID get him to his final phase, but with a paralysed Marisa and Remilia and all but useless tenshi, beside another character not meant to take physical attacks.

To level 100, I guess...

My remi is pretty much immune to paralize and poisen. You may wanna swap some pieces of gear with other people and find a good remi-esque item that feature resistance to those. I think those lion heart badges have it, I don't remember. It's pure bliss being able to cast curse of vlad with no worries at all though.

Quote
Pretty much, For some reason Cirno and Marisa have good defense against it though...
Patchy is for me, but she's so slow she'll probably die after 4 hits before getting to move anyway. Marisa gets chowed for me, I neglected her defensive stats way more than my other toons since her boss utility is 99% hiding after buffing her mag, just swapping for a spark, then hiding before the boss gets to move.

I have yet to find one diamond knight yet, I've encountered 10+ blue robots, giant lightning dwarves, executors, about 5 "the norns", and a couple..uhh.. Those big giant metal-clad 4-legged...uhh...things that come with 2 similar-looking adds featured in the previous floor.

So are diamond knights really hard? or are they ridiculously profitable to kill (even compared to the rest of the mobs on the floor)? Or both? I got an item drop from one of the dwarves, drops "armands"....Was hoping for more, stupid top-level equipment having their budget wasted on bad stats like TP...Booo.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 03:51:11 AM by Ghaleon »

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #336 on: December 15, 2009, 03:50:56 AM »
I just learned from the english wiki that 10 skillpoint levels = 30% increase you see on gear. Maybe instead of trying to balance my skill points around the entire cast, I should focus on one stat on a character at a time for a ten level interval before moving to another.

And yeah, my Remi had a ribbon on her. I can curse MOST OF THE TIME with no fears, but there is still a tiny, tiny gamble she may ailment herself. That's why she was paralyzed that fight-I cursed and raged at paralyzing myself.

I just hate the physical phase of this guy. Bad. Not very many characters boast high defense stats, and even hong with her 5000 defense stat + 10,000 HP can live through maybe three attacks. Reimu can only heal so many times before she runs out and takes 10 millenia to recharge...

I resent everyone who says this is easy. X_x

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #337 on: December 15, 2009, 03:55:21 AM »
I just learned from the english wiki that 10 skillpoint levels = 30% increase you see on gear. Maybe instead of trying to balance my skill points around the entire cast, I should focus on one stat on a character at a time for a ten level interval before moving to another.

And yeah, my Remi had a ribbon on her. I can curse MOST OF THE TIME with no fears, but there is still a tiny, tiny gamble she may ailment herself. That's why she was paralyzed that fight-I cursed and raged at paralyzing myself.

I just hate the physical phase of this guy. Bad. Not very many characters boast high defense stats, and even hong with her 5000 defense stat + 10,000 HP can live through maybe three attacks. Reimu can only heal so many times before she runs out and takes 10 millenia to recharge...

I resent everyone who says this is easy. X_x

I just found that Yukari was much harder, especially after her mega buffage.

I'm pretty sure that skillpoints spent don't actually affect your gear though. I mean, I think gear multiplies your base stats before skillpoints, and skillpoints before gear.

Chaore

  • Kai Ni Recipient Many Years Late
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  • You Finally Did It, Kadokawa.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #338 on: December 15, 2009, 04:02:22 AM »
Diamond Knights are very worth it to kill, 52k Exp and a damn awesome sword? Yes, Yes please.

Only issue is that you have to kill 'em quick or someone dies, They've an attack that does 200k, No ifs ands or buts.

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #339 on: December 15, 2009, 04:06:53 AM »
I'm pretty sure that skillpoints spent don't actually affect your gear though. I mean, I think gear multiplies your base stats before skillpoints, and skillpoints before gear.

I knew that, it's just that I DEPEND on gear. If my top four character's gear are not absolutely optimal, it shows very much. If ten levels in that stat is equivalent or nearly so to that huge boost, then they made a much bigger difference than I thought.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #340 on: December 15, 2009, 04:25:36 AM »
Diamond Knights are very worth it to kill, 52k Exp and a damn awesome sword? Yes, Yes please.

Only issue is that you have to kill 'em quick or someone dies, They've an attack that does 200k, No ifs ands or buts.

Just found one now, I didn't get a sword, I want a refund! >=(

Is it longsword "ringil" by chance? I got one from a chest, it's indeed nice, though I don't know who I'd give a 2nd one to.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 04:27:13 AM by Ghaleon »

Chaore

  • Kai Ni Recipient Many Years Late
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  • You Finally Did It, Kadokawa.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #341 on: December 15, 2009, 04:54:29 AM »
Its called Scourge, Actually, Same as their FUCK YOU Attack. :V

Its basically the greatest straight up damage booster sans Genocide Gun.

RainfallYoshi

  • Yoshi of Skies & Rains
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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #342 on: December 15, 2009, 05:45:32 AM »
FINALLY!

After forever I finally managed to beat F10 optional bitch. Success! She even coughed up an amazing little piece of gear. +24% HP, +48% DEF (!), +60 FIR, and +12 Debuff Resist. Nice reward for all the effort if I do say so. <3

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #343 on: December 15, 2009, 06:01:17 AM »
FINALLY!

After forever I finally managed to beat F10 optional bitch. Success! She even coughed up an amazing little piece of gear. +24% HP, +48% DEF (!), +60 FIR, and +12 Debuff Resist. Nice reward for all the effort if I do say so. <3

Heh, and I just got a flower blade kikuryusei.
+72% atk,def,mnd,spd
*orgasm*

Pesco

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #344 on: December 15, 2009, 06:19:35 AM »
Heh, and I just got a flower blade kikuryusei.
+72% atk,def,mnd,spd
*orgasm*

Please tell me that's a mob drop.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #345 on: December 15, 2009, 06:21:01 AM »
Please tell me that's a mob drop.
Yeah, floor 20, from executioners...Or Executors, something like that. Like those Terminator guys on floor 12, only gray.

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #346 on: December 15, 2009, 06:24:48 AM »
I feel so behind. Must. Beat... BOSS...! *strained noises synced to the spending of skillpoints*

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #347 on: December 15, 2009, 07:41:20 AM »
Whoever said Yukari is the only boss that casts djinn storm is a big fat liar >=P. Final boss SPAMS that damn move before anybody gets more than 200 sp over and over again.. OH and the usual +100% everything (actually it's 50%, but it's casted so often that you see it over 50% than under).

Final boss is just too long. I mean it took me freakin 50 mins to get to the final part where the difficulty goes up by about 500%. Felt like I just wasted the night. I don't mind a long fight, but I shouldn't have to repeat 50 mins of no challenge just to get to the part that matters >=P.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 07:51:13 AM by Ghaleon »

RainfallYoshi

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #348 on: December 15, 2009, 07:54:48 AM »
So. Much. Rage.

Floor 12 triple bitches are incredibly spammy and unfair. I hate them so much. JUST DIE ALREADY!

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #349 on: December 15, 2009, 08:46:19 AM »
So. Much. Rage.

Floor 12 triple bitches are incredibly spammy and unfair. I hate them so much. JUST DIE ALREADY!

Make them un-spammy. Paralyze them and speed them down.

Krimmydoodle

  • We must apply more SCIENCE!
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #350 on: December 15, 2009, 09:01:27 AM »
As much as I'd love to join in on all of this "F12 triple bitches" discussion, I still have yet to make it to that point.  I'm sick of these motherfucking gates in this motherfucking maze.

I should probably start seriously building characters other than my frontline (Remi/Reimu/Marisa/Minoriko) so I'm not so horribly crippled by my TP.
Whether you're on Easy or you're a Lunatic, be damn proud of your accomplishments.  Don't let anyone convince you otherwise, for it's when you lose faith in your own achievements that those victories become defeats.

Pesco

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #351 on: December 15, 2009, 09:11:36 AM »
As much as I'd love to join in on all of this "F12 triple bitches" discussion, I still have yet to make it to that point.  I'm sick of these motherfucking gates in this motherfucking maze.

I should probably start seriously building characters other than my frontline (Remi/Reimu/Marisa/Minoriko) so I'm not so horribly crippled by my TP.

The 12F fight is probably the first place that punishes you for neglecting your defenses. None of their attacks should do more than 400 damage to you, 0 damage to your caster and ad hoc tank.

If you haven't been using Patchy, I think you've been doing it wrong.

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #352 on: December 15, 2009, 09:18:23 AM »
Wait, you need to "build" characters in this game? I thought they all just kinda leveled up at the same general pace as everyone else, and that nobody ever fell too far behind. I NEVER use Aya, and she's only 7 levels give or take under Reimu, whom I NEVER take out of the party.

Also, it seems to generally be that the early game characters are some of the best in the game. The recruits have their uses, but it seems Reimu/Remi/Patchy/Chen/Hong/Marisa are your bread and butter the whole way through.

Or am I a nubcake?

Pesco

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #353 on: December 15, 2009, 09:27:23 AM »
My boss team is
Meiling/Remi/Reimu/Patchy if it's a physical boss.
10F/5 or 7F/Reimu/Patchy if it's a magic boss.

Trash cleanup is team rotation until everyone is out of TP. Tank/Speed/Caster/Caster.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 09:29:31 AM by Pesco »

trancehime

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #354 on: December 15, 2009, 09:31:26 AM »
The 12F fight is probably the first place that punishes you for neglecting your defenses. None of their attacks should do more than 400 damage to you, 0 damage to your caster and ad hoc tank.

If you haven't been using Patchy, I think you've been doing it wrong.

Patchy is a lot more disappointing as a nuker later mid-game. Her DEF stat is waaaaay too low, even if you try to twink it. She sports a very disappointing 7317 DEF stat at around 401, that can't stand any hits even if you gave her DEF items and upped her DEF skill.  A 2 initial DEF growth tacked on to an even worse 11 base DEF isn't doing anyone any favors. She gets overshadowed by Flandre later on, who, although she has a far FAR worse spirit, has the most explosive base ATK stat and has a MAG stat that can catch up easily if twinked properly. Not to mention she's far, FAR faster. Randoms that use magic are easily OHKOed by Flandre's massive ATK anyway.

Whoever said Yukari is the only boss that casts djinn storm is a big fat liar >=P.

Djinn Storm is a common spell used by many later bosses.

People need to use Tenshi's Hisou Sword more.

Please tell me that's a mob drop.

Drop from the 20F Executioner.

Ninja edit...

Or am I a nubcake?

Have you not used your skill points like, at all?

My boss team is
Meiling/Remi/Reimu/Patchy if it's a physical boss.
10F/5 or 7F/Reimu/Patchy if it's a magic boss.

Trash cleanup is team rotation until everyone is out of TP. Tank/Speed/Caster/Caster.

Once you get Tenshi she works better as a tank than Meiling. Meiling is good because she has ITD.

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Krimmydoodle

  • We must apply more SCIENCE!
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #355 on: December 15, 2009, 09:34:35 AM »
Well, I haven't actually tried using anyone other than my frontline for a long time, so I don't actually know how far behind everyone else is, if much at all.  I've just been too worried that they're soft fluffy marshmallows to ever bother switching them in.  Maybe I'm just worried about nothing.

And I stopped using Patchy back around 3F when I gave up on her due to speed/defense/TP in favor of going with Marisa for my magical destruction needs.  Didn't help that at that early time, her spells seemed like they cost an arm and a leg as well.  Maybe that was a newb decision.  Whatever, I've been getting by like this anyway.
Whether you're on Easy or you're a Lunatic, be damn proud of your accomplishments.  Don't let anyone convince you otherwise, for it's when you lose faith in your own achievements that those victories become defeats.

trancehime

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #356 on: December 15, 2009, 09:40:58 AM »
And I stopped using Patchy back around 3F when I gave up on her due to speed/defense/TP in favor of going with Marisa for my magical destruction needs.  Didn't help that at that early time, her spells seemed like they cost an arm and a leg as well.  Maybe that was a newb decision.  Whatever, I've been getting by like this anyway.

Patchy's spells are actually very cheap in comparison to the other characters, not to mention she has one of the best SP growths in the entire game. I find Marisa far better than Patchy by virtue of Master Spark but that is just me.

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Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #357 on: December 15, 2009, 09:44:33 AM »
Have you not used your skill points like, at all?

Yes, but maybe poorly. I try to get every character's good stats to the same point. Most stat's levels on all characters, assuming it's not like attack on Patchy, is around 30-40 at floor 18.

Maybe it'd be nice if someone could suggest efficient skill point use. Is it better to distribute evenly, or focus on a select set to beef them up as much as possible?

EDIT: Looking at the wiki, I'm second guessing my opinion on Aya VS Chen. I used to think Aya was just awful, but Aya seems to be way better all around, where Chen is a speeding, multihit, glass cannon. Speed buffs + good attack and better-than-Chen durability, or Flight of Idaton spam? Hm...
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 09:48:00 AM by Milkyway64 »

trancehime

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Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #358 on: December 15, 2009, 09:51:05 AM »
EDIT: Looking at the wiki, I'm second guessing my opinion on Aya VS Chen. I used to think Aya was just awful, but Aya seems to be way better all around, where Chen is a speeding, multihit, glass cannon. Speed buffs + good attack and better-than-Chen durability, or Flight of Idaton spam? Hm...

Aya is better because Chen's god stat is broken AND DOESN'T WORK. Geez, game. If you want to give us evasion whores, make your evade stat WORK. >_>

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Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread
« Reply #359 on: December 15, 2009, 10:01:57 AM »
Quote
People need to use Tenshi's Hisou Sword more.

You mean sword of Rapture? that's what it's called in the latest translation. That move DOESNT EFFING WORK for me. Or in the case of the final boss (pre plus disk), it partially works...Except you can't use it after a Djinn storm! By the time I get the sp back to cast it, the boss's 100% mag wtf pwns me. Wiki says reccommended level was wayyyy higher than I am though, oh well.

Marisa IMO isn't actually that good for bosses. I mean master spark is powerful and all, but when her sp is at 980, and her mag is at +97%, her master spark only nukes for just under 200k more often than not. Meanwhile patchy silent selenes for 70-80k every time she casts it, WITHOUT mag buffs. If you factor in the amount of turns wasted concentrating on Marisa, not to mention the high chance of her losing all her mana from a djinn storm, not all that.

Marisa is a great trash killer IMO though. Asteroid belt is great on anything that isn't resistant to mystic, and Marisa is one of the fastest casters in the game. A bigass master spark comes in handy for bosses sometimes too anyway. I mean nobody can beat marisa at the "oh shit all my guys are dead by my last 2, who are going to die in a turn". Type deal...Or if a boss has a particularly hard "phase", Marisa really helps at speeding thru that trouble area.

Regardless of who is good early game and late game and all that. You get so much exp in this game even when you're benched, that it really doesn't matter if you invested alot in one character at first. It doesn't really backtrack you much to switch.

As for Aya vs chen. I prefered Aya because she was also blazing fast, and I found her speed buffs to be really nice. Her attack spells have their moments, especially since Wind element is fairly rare for the player. But She's not really someone I use to damage a boss much because she's still pretty squishy (just not chen squishy). The delay on her first two moves isn't obscenely low either, they're just like.. 1/2 as long as a normal move..You aren't going to be catwalking like Oren or anything >=P. She's an excellent trash killer though, not to mention that an awful lot of the fast moving highly dangerous enemies like ghosts and cats tend to be weak vs wind and will be 1shot by aya. Those swordfish thingies not so much.