Author Topic: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion  (Read 371674 times)

PapillonReel

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #150 on: October 06, 2012, 07:07:19 AM »
I remember reading that she lost to Suika canonically in IaMP.

For what it's worth: Reimu lost the battle, but won the war, and the last few lines of the Suimusou ending hint strongly at it being her powers that resolved everything in the end. She's definitely lost matches when going all-out though, and it wasn't just Suika; Tenshi beat her at full power in a rematch and Yorihime defeated her quite handily on her first try. The "invincible Reimu" thing is overstating things a bit, I feel; it's just that no one can afford to kill her, is all.

It's best not to sweat it either way. It doesn't really matter who wins in a given fight so long as it fits the narrative, and Reimu's lost plenty of matches when there isn't as much on the line.

What is with all these "I wish it was a shooter instead" comments

I don't think anyone's really angry that it's fighter. It's just that it's been seven years since PoFV came out and an update and a new engine would do that game wonders after that long of a time. People are curious to see what ZUN could do if he revisited that style of game.

As for me, I'm friggin' pumped. SWR is one of my all-time favourites in the series, and Tasofro's been hitting them out of the park with every game they've made since then. I'm really looking forward to seeing who makes it on the roster.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 07:54:40 AM by PapillonReel »

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #151 on: October 06, 2012, 08:30:01 AM »
With the pattern going on, it might be another 2 whole games until another PoFV-like comes around.
7.5 -> 10.5 -> 13.5 = fighting games
3 -> 9 -> 15? = 1 VS 1 games


I'm not sure whether logic should be applied to anything that ZUN makes, but... maybe?

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #152 on: October 06, 2012, 08:38:35 AM »
(see: Slash/Bust system in Samurai Shodown 3 & 4).
Yay, an SS3/4 reference! :D

Personally I've always wished you could setup your initial moveset along with your deck's contents. The random nature of it all makes most strategies unreliable and for casual play, setting up the right set of moves can take a bit of luck. I guess it's not such a big deal anyway; judging from the screenshots there seems to be something completely new involved.

Maybe a slash/bust system. With KoF-style tag-teaming. ^-^


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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #153 on: October 06, 2012, 01:08:37 PM »
What is with all these "I wish it was a shooter instead" comments

ZUN is not making a game right now. This is being made by Tasofro on the side. It is not replacing anything.

If this wasn't being made, you wouldn't be getting a shooter, you would be getting nothing.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #154 on: October 06, 2012, 01:21:08 PM »
I expect Byakuren, Toyosatomiko, Kanako, Yuuka, and Mima to be in it.

^^

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #155 on: October 06, 2012, 02:06:38 PM »
Thing is 12.3 didn't have any new characters.

I mean, it had Goliath Doll (which got wrecked at the end), Catfish (a dream) and Hisotensoku (who we never do fight), but they don't seem to last past the game.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #156 on: October 06, 2012, 02:42:29 PM »
Soku didn't really need a new character since it wasn't any significant kind of incident, just the daily lives of three characters.

I think it's a safe bet that the final boss will be a new character, since that's ZUN's operating procedure, but I wouldn't expect anything beyond that since there's going to be a lot of competition for getting in the roster.

I should warn that you probably shouldn't get your hopes up for a big cast - it'll almost certainly be smaller than Soku's. Making sprites is 90% of the work in making a fighting game and the switch to HD will really slow down production - that's why the initial releases of Blazblue and Skullgirls had such small casts. This looks more to be about KOF 12 quality, but this is just Tasofro we're talking about.

It kinda depends on animation quality/number of moves, but some people are estimating around 15 characters, I think about 12 is a safe bet. More than that is just gravy.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #157 on: October 06, 2012, 02:51:20 PM »
I don't think anyone's really angry that it's fighter. It's just that it's been seven years since PoFV came out and an update and a new engine would do that game wonders after that long of a time. People are curious to see what ZUN could do if he revisited that style of game.

Are people? My experience is that those clamoring for another PoFV are a small but vocal minority. Usually when it gets mentioned, it's always in trolly/ominous terms, e.g., "hey guys what if Touhou 1X turns out to be another Phantasmagoria?"

And I say this is someone who loves PoDD, and thinks it's the best game of the PC-98 series.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #158 on: October 06, 2012, 04:10:30 PM »
Thing is 12.3 didn't have any new characters.

I mean, it had Goliath Doll (which got wrecked at the end), Catfish (a dream) and Hisotensoku (who we never do fight), but they don't seem to last past the game.
I said before that 12.3 doesn't really count, because it is more of an expansion pack.

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #159 on: October 06, 2012, 04:52:40 PM »
I've always wondered why Suwako got into 12.3 instead of Kanako, but if ZUN already had the "religious war" in mind, it makes perfect sense.

Anyway, I think the cast will be:

Reimu (already in)
Marisa (already in)
Kanako (faction leader)
Byakuren (faction leader)
Miko ( ^ ^ ^ )
Shou (the bridge between Humans and the Myouren temple)
Mononobe (Miko's right hand, visits the village)
Sanae (gatherer of faith for Kanako)
Mamizou (youkai's trump card against Miko)
Soga (ensemble dark horse)
Utsuho (Kanako's puppet)
Yukari (sage-sama)
Aya, or Hatate (news source)

Here's wishing that Mokou and Keine will be playable, being a game about the human village and such.

I hope that after 13.5 we move on from this religion stuff.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #160 on: October 06, 2012, 04:57:42 PM »
With the pattern going on, it might be another 2 whole games until another PoFV-like comes around.
7.5 -> 10.5 -> 13.5 = fighting games
3 -> 9 -> 15? = 1 VS 1 games


I'm not sure whether logic should be applied to anything that ZUN makes, but... maybe?
You missed 12.3 though for fighters

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #161 on: October 06, 2012, 05:15:56 PM »
Maybe a slash/bust system. With KoF-style tag-teaming. ^-^
That sounds like a lot of fun. Not sure what the leader character specials would be, however.

I should warn that you probably shouldn't get your hopes up for a big cast - it'll almost certainly be smaller than Soku's. Making sprites is 90% of the work in making a fighting game and the switch to HD will really slow down production - that's why the initial releases of Blazblue and Skullgirls had such small casts. This looks more to be about KOF 12 quality, but this is just Tasofro we're talking about.
I'm fine with small casts myself, for it can better allow for each character being unique (one of my favourite aspects of BB).

Not sure if KOF12 would be a good comparison, though, considering it was quite lacklustre compared to 11 and 13. That is, if you were referring to gameplay - graphically I think it's fine considering the smaller teams involved.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 05:21:17 PM by ✚まどか Quick-Fix Medic »
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #162 on: October 06, 2012, 06:25:44 PM »
I noticed one thing in the images though

Doesn't it seem like they're floating/flying more in this game? I haven't seen either of them really stand of the ground, and kinda weird that Marisa is staying on her broom.

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #163 on: October 06, 2012, 07:01:30 PM »
You're right.  Either they're giving us more aerial control (and ability to stay up longer) or maybe you never do land on the ground and the whole combat will be played through flying.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #164 on: October 06, 2012, 09:01:02 PM »
That might make things a lot more annoying.....
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #165 on: October 06, 2012, 09:05:59 PM »
I think that's actually a pretty swell idea. They could do some pretty cool stuff if they stay in the air.

Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #166 on: October 06, 2012, 09:26:57 PM »
GREAT
I can't wait to play Byukaren and Nue, and I hope that SWR characters and Hisoutensoku (not sure if properly spelled) are avaible cause I want Remilia punching all the Moriya crew  :D
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #167 on: October 06, 2012, 09:39:35 PM »
I noticed one thing in the images though

Doesn't it seem like they're floating/flying more in this game? I haven't seen either of them really stand of the ground, and kinda weird that Marisa is staying on her broom.

Ooh, exciting. I really liked the improved air-game going from IaMP to SWR/Soku, so this looks good to me.

I wonder how the approval ratings in the top corners are going to factor into the gameplay? Maybe a better rating means damage degrades more slowly during a combo? The super gauge charges more quickly? Or maybe something else entirely?

Are people? My experience is that those clamoring for another PoFV are a small but vocal minority. Usually when it gets mentioned, it's always in trolly/ominous terms, e.g., "hey guys what if Touhou 1X turns out to be another Phantasmagoria?"

And I say this is someone who loves PoDD, and thinks it's the best game of the PC-98 series.

A few people mentioned they were disappointed earlier up-thread (Coreven and Hanzo K., among others), and someone I know on another forum was surprised as well it wasn't a Phantasmagoria. Though you're right, it's definitely a minority; everyone seems pretty happy with the news otherwise.

(I, for one, look forward to a PoFV one day where the final boss won't crush me beneath her heel.  :derp:)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 09:43:38 PM by PapillonReel »

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #168 on: October 06, 2012, 09:43:14 PM »
Given that a friend of mine was worried that ZUN getting married would mean far less time for him to make games I'm just bloody ecstatic we're getting a game at all and that it's a fresh start for the fighting titles.

Now just to wait for Forbidden Scrollery. :derp:
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 09:52:00 PM by Narly Nyuudou Nun »

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #169 on: October 06, 2012, 09:43:39 PM »
A few people mentioned they were disappointed earlier up-thread (Coreven and Hanzo K., among others), and someone I know on another forum was surprised as well it wasn't a Phantasmagoria. Though you're right, it's definitely a minority; everyone seems pretty happy with the news otherwise.
Oh, well, gotta define "everyone" then, since I doubt the fans of the fighting games are a majority. A new game is good news in general, but people are gonna prefer some games over others, so it's good news or better news.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #170 on: October 06, 2012, 09:55:53 PM »
Oh, well, gotta define "everyone" then, since I doubt the fans of the fighting games are a majority. A new game is good news in general, but people are gonna prefer some games over others, so it's good news or better news.
This. Just because I'm a little disappointed that a new game is a type I don't like doesn't mean I'm disappointed there's a new game at all. As I said near the beginning of the thread, I'm still really looking forward to the music, because I don't have to like the gameplay to admit their soundtrack is awesome.
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #171 on: October 06, 2012, 09:57:47 PM »
Touhoucana. Make it happen, Tasofro. Please. ;_;

Also, I'd like to see (in case Touhoucana doesn't happen)
- at least two buttons for melee
- melee moves with fast startup
- fast highjump cancels and air backdashes
- reward for good neutral game playing

personally, I'm curious about how will this game be influenced by newer fighting games (Aquapazza's emotion system, Arcana's Extend Force, clash, etc.).
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #172 on: October 07, 2012, 12:24:21 AM »
Interesting, just found this out. Damn internet connection dying for 3 days, wasn't able to hear the good news until now.

Speculations on characters/gameplay aside, I am loving the improve sprites. Looks like it went from the days of Genesis/SNES and became something for the Playstation.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #173 on: October 07, 2012, 06:37:09 AM »
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it being a fighter, I'm quite okay with that. In fact, I rather liked SWR/Soku, as they're far easier to play than IaMP you know.
I'm just mildly disappointed that it wasn't a Phantasmagoria, like the others. I mean, most folks I know of were generally expecting the next game to be one. (In a pattern-reading sorta way, given the past trends.)

But like one guy earlier said, I'm eagerly waiting until this whole religion war arc is over.

On a more related note, I share Chema's hopes for more than just MoF and on to be in play. I don't mind if they take a while to make it a thing really, the more time they take on the project, the better it'll be.

I do like the enhanced sprites though, a BlazBlue/Guilty Gear kinda style would work quite well methinks.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 06:45:13 AM by Hanzo K. »
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #174 on: October 07, 2012, 08:32:37 AM »
Maybe ZUN only counts the non-decimal games towards Phantasmagoria games and we'll get it with TH14. :V

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #175 on: October 07, 2012, 08:48:02 AM »
I'm more interested in how the new faces in Gensokyou (Or even some old ones) will fit into a fighting game environment. I can foresee a Seiga with Yoshika standby assist team working well, as well as Ichirin and Unzan making a unique character.

I just hope our favourite oarfish and those other guys make a return in addition to a healthy roster bolster (25 characters? Seems like a nice, solid number to me, but more or less are both possible I suppose).

If this really ties into the current arc of the series well, it might mean a very real possibility we'll be seeing Kasen's first in-game appearance.

My gawwd I can't help but overspeculate on this.

I just have to assume the worst. 8 character roster. Characters promised from day 1 of the project being $5 DLC. Shady "anti-infinite" system that doesn't actually work. 3 character team being disproportionately better than a solo character.

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #176 on: October 07, 2012, 10:31:36 AM »
I actually hope Ichirin is in this so she can be more than Unzan's hitbo....

Oh wait. She'll just end up being Unzan's hitbox again :/


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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #177 on: October 07, 2012, 11:06:28 AM »
probably bullshit observations from a fighting game commentator:
-it's safe to say these screens are not from the same match; looking at the time meters, hp bars wildly fluctuate. Unless there's some melty blood like health recovery system, they can't be part of the same round even though the 'rounds won' counters are identical. This may or may not suggest the presence of Yoshika and Seiga, as an hp recovery mechanic would be perfect for Yoshika with Seiga on assist specials. Or something. Of course, we can still speculate as though they were the same match, for the sake of sanity.
-Reimu has her somersault kick; probably a 623. We may or may not be seeing the usual 236, 623, 214, 421 special moves layout.
-floaty marisa on the second screen as mentioned earlier. Hover mechanic? Flight? Who knows. Should be interesting if it's a manually engaged flight mode for mixups.
-Marisa's meter is noticeably shorter than Reimu's; this implies balance regarding usage vs quality or other such resource management
-Cosmetic differences on the decals next to their 'mana' meters may or may not just be cosmetic, what with the whole 'three' threme we have going on here.
-Reimu's meter goes slightly red when she uses that bullet in the second screen, and massively red when she uses her kick. This may be by default, or she may have used bullets before, OR she's putting Marisa in a blockstring, but there may also be a mechanic involving reversal techniques that makes them more costly when used as a reversal.
-Marisa's meter is not going red when she uses her attack on the third screen; the implication here is that, despite being flashy, is just a regular air normal or command normal. That's also a pretty silly hitbox for an air normal, though, but our game screen is also ridiculously huge. I'm pretty sure that the game is going to be centered around zoning and capitalization of openings, like Soku. It just fits touhou too well. also worth noting that it's three hit, which is somewhat silly for an air normal in general because of how long that's going to put you in blockstun. Depending on cancel mechanics, that is a move we could be seeing a lot.
-It's worth noting that Marisa's 'no' meter goes massively up when she hits Reimu in the third screen, while Reimu's 'yes' meter also rises. In addition on the third screen, Reimu's 'neither' meter also doesn't change much at all, while Marisa's does actually alter. Fits the characters; Reimu's pretty straightforward while Marisa is a known liar.
-I'm inclined to believe Marisa actually managed to block that somersault kick, as there's no fluctuation in the % next to their portraits, which certainly seems to change based on hit.
-The % meters seem to be offense/defense related. I have a funny feeling they're offense/defense bonuses; if you are getting wailed on but manage to sneak out and counter, you get a bonus, and the reverse for the guy wailing on you. It seems they rapidly revert to near 0 levels in neutral, as the two screens with Reimu on the offensive show. This, if true, may be a way to punish people for not doing a combo with a hard knockdown (or a 100% combo for people who played Soku)
-It's interesting to note that the % bars are colored according to the most prominent of the yes/no/neither, which means depending on which is most prominent you get bonuses? Interesting.
-I have a sneaking feeling that the 'neither' meter has to be the dominant one for you to use supers.

I'm inclined to believe that characters will have unique attributes in addition to movesets, size, speed, and other basics, what with how many different things there are on the screen. HP, total 'mana' (which may be just that or an ex-gauge, though likely just a mana gauge), the % counter, and our yes/no/neither meter are all viable ways to differentiate the characters. One character may have more drastic fluctuations in the yes/no/neither, another might have a really honking huge 'mana' bar, etc,

well don't fell the need to take any of the above seriously, since it's extrapolation and guessing based on three screenshots, but hey.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 11:11:35 AM by Amra »
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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #178 on: October 07, 2012, 12:09:07 PM »
So anyone want to speculate on what kind of new characters we may get and how they fit into the plot?

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Re: 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion
« Reply #179 on: October 07, 2012, 12:41:36 PM »
My guess is that there won't be any new characters.