League of Legends Thread XVI -Double International Salt Mine Edition-

[Ryuu]

i don't think rumble could be anywhere near as bad as nidalee. nidalee was a problem b/c she could gank without committing anything. she didn't even have to enter lane, she just has to throw a random spear from fog of war and then she exerts a shitload of pressure even if she leaves immediately afterwords.

rumble has to commit. he has to enter your lane and throw spells at you. he has to burn his decent cooldown ultimate for a good gank. even if he becomes good, i don't see him reaching nidalee levels of oppression ever

[Iryan]

I'd rather Riot make changes to those champions to encourage an off-playstyle that already exists than try something completely off the rails.

I fail to see how jungle Karthus is more legit than jungle Rumble, considering both can in theory be done while still being far far from LoL-esports viable. The former just got more exposure because of certain streamers.

If nothing else, Rumble has the appropriate skin for that.  :V

[Patorikku]

If nothing else, Rumble has the appropriate skin for that.  :V

EXACTLY! What good is the Rumble in the Jungle skin if I can't rumble in the jungle as Rumble in the Jungle?

[Bardiche]

RIP Runeglaive

[Ryuu]

RIP Runeglaive

did... something happen?

i'm not seeing anything in the patch notes about runeglaive and the only competing item was a small buff to devourer. and the only changes in the jungle were made specifically to make runeglaive a better item? why is it rip

[Raikaria]

PBE; before the patch even came out on live so Rito could see the effects of the MR reduction in the jungle:

Jungle Enchantment: Runeglaive

    Has been REMOVED and replaced with Runic Echoes

[NEW] Jungle Enchantment: Runic Echoes

    Total Cost: 2450 gold
    Recipe: Aether Wisp + Amplifying Tome + Tier 2 Jungle Item + 115 gold
    +60 Ability Power
    +10% Movement Speed
    UNIQUE Passive - Echo: Gain charges upon moving or casting. At 100 charges, the next spell hit expends all charges to deal 80 (+10% of Ability Power) bonus magic damage to up to 4 targets on hit.
    This effect deals 250% damage to Large Monsters. Hitting a Large Monster with this effect will restore 18% of your missing Mana.

Personally I like the fact that there's a jungle item that makes you move faster.

[Iryan]

The soraka changes make me sad. Not because she got nerfed, that was very necessary. It is because the way she was nerfed, specifically, the nerf to the Q range. It makes it much harder to hit Q in lane without eating retaliation, which I guess was the intention, but it also makes it much, MUCH worse for chasing enemies.

They could have changed a lot of other things, the obvious one being lowering her direct healing power a bit to compensate for the 15% increase from the mastery. But nope, gotta do something with wide-ranging effects on gameplay and game feel like this. Gdi rito. 

[Raikaria]

I'm depressed.

Rumble as of last patch had the 2nd lowest winrate. [All the sustain in the Resolve tree really kicks him in the teeth; especially combined with the cost rise of AP items and the fact Rumble kinda sucks at farming]

The lowest winrate was Nidalee. She got buffed.

Rumble got indirectly nerfed because Deathfire Touch got nerfed.

Rumble is probobly going to have the lowest winrate this patch. I never thought I would see the day.

On the other hand... Rumble Buffs coming soon^tm maybe?

[Bardiche]

did... something happen?

i'm not seeing anything in the patch notes about runeglaive and the only competing item was a small buff to devourer. and the only changes in the jungle were made specifically to make runeglaive a better item? why is it rip

See Raikaria's post. PBE has it replaced with something else. If I still played Evelynn religiously, I'd be bothered. But I play Kindred, Poopy and Pantheon now. No one cares about Evelynn.

Not even me.

Poopy is super fun now. W blocking dashes is hilarious. Destroying Aatrox, Tryndamere, Garen, Pantheon and Nidalee in lane? Also hilarious.

[Ryuu]

idk i think eve would like that item more than runeglaive tbh. eve would benefit more from triforce or lichbane to replace the runeglaive passive, and the movespeed on a jungle item is really nice for her. gaining charges on casting is also really good for her since hate spike is a thing.

[Bardiche]

idk i think eve would like that item more than runeglaive tbh. eve would benefit more from triforce or lichbane to replace the runeglaive passive, and the movespeed on a jungle item is really nice for her. gaining charges on casting is also really good for her since hate spike is a thing.

Right, but now she has to spend a slot on buying Lich Bane or Triforce (which normally she doesn't have to), and since she got hit with a mana cost on W to offset the Mana she gains from buying Runeglaive... well, we all know she's not getting that Mana cost retracted. Early game will need to buy some Mana or else run out quickly again because #RIOT.

Also it's all about re-learning her build path again after re-learning it for pre-season. :^) I don't feel like constantly relearning build paths.

[ExPorygon]

The soraka changes make me sad. Not because she got nerfed, that was very necessary. It is because the way she was nerfed, specifically, the nerf to the Q range. It makes it much harder to hit Q in lane without eating retaliation, which I guess was the intention, but it also makes it much, MUCH worse for chasing enemies.

They could have changed a lot of other things, the obvious one being lowering her direct healing power a bit to compensate for the 15% increase from the mastery. But nope, gotta do something with wide-ranging effects on gameplay and game feel like this. Gdi rito. 

Lowering her safety was exactly the purpose. They want her to remain as LoL's premier healer so they tried to increase her weaknesses instead of hitting her strengths first. I don't know about how others feel about it, but I never liked the amount of safety Soraka enjoyed while sitting in the backline healing constantly, while safely throwing Qs so she can keep healing. You're supposed to be able to focus her to stop the healing, but that never felt like that was a feasible option to me.

IDK, that's just my thoughts on it. I'd be fine with the amount she heals if she was easier to kill but maybe the nerf went too far on that front. I'm not really a Soraka player. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Raikaria]

IMO the Q range nerf on Raka hardly matters since the further the land point is from Soraka the longer the landing delay.

And at max range it really, really wasn't reliable at all.

I mean it does matter. Just not that much. Generally you want to use it from as short range as possible without putting yourself in danger.

[hyorinryu]

I thought the rakas people hated were the ones who just build warmogs, maxed W first, and didn't bother with Q in the first place.

[Ryuu]

Right, but now she has to spend a slot on buying Lich Bane or Triforce (which normally she doesn't have to),

the thing is that both of those items were better on eve than runeglaive, but ap eve could only really get the runeglaive. the new item takes more of an aoe damage/waveclear slot that was previously held by luden's. the downside being that the new item gives less AP than luden's, but due to how the items function, luden's is still an accessible item and will probably remain a luxury buy.

and since she got hit with a mana cost on W to offset the Mana she gains from buying Runeglaive... well, we all know she's not getting that Mana cost retracted. Early game will need to buy some Mana or else run out quickly again because #RIOT.

did you miss the part where the new item restores 18% missing mana whenever it goes off on a big monster? there's really no point to use W if you're not ganking, too, so it doesn't seem like a big deal.

Also it's all about re-learning her build path again after re-learning it for pre-season. :^) I don't feel like constantly relearning build paths.

i mean, it's preseason, you should basically assume that your builds aren't gonna be solid until the full season starts

[Iryan]

IMO the Q range nerf on Raka hardly matters since the further the land point is from Soraka the longer the landing delay.

And at max range it really, really wasn't reliable at all.

I hit that frequently. If you wait for a moment where the enemy's movement is hindered, they are standing next to a wall, or you predict where they are gonna go, it was mighty useful. Plus, the big thing, in my opinion, is that now you cannot really use the ability to chase properly anymore. If the enemy is running away from you in a straight line,  and not in autoattack range, hitting them with starfall (or at least a >slowing< starfall) is no longer possible. And that is very painful. Especially since Soraka's base movement is tied for the very lowest, and you just cannot expect a low-hp-ally to be in the direction you are walking all the time, especially in that situation. If they were to reduce the range of her main offensive ability by 17%, at least they could have, like, increased her movespeed by 5, to help a bit with that positioning that she is much more dependant on now than before.

I don't think they are gonna increase the range anytime soon though. It is not like this is gonna make Soraka unplayable tier. She is just less versatile and less fun.

[Bardiche]

did you miss the part where the new item restores 18% missing mana whenever it goes off on a big monster? there's really no point to use W if you're not ganking, too, so it doesn't seem like a big deal.

I didn't miss that part (though I missed it was 18 instead of , but there is a point to using W when not ganking. Why would you eschew faster movement inbetween camps? Minimising the time you spend farming and maximising the time you spend ganking hinges on strategic use of W.

[Mr. Sacchi]

Doesn't Eve get a massive mana regen buff while stealthed? I'm pretty sure the change is going to be a buff, if anything. It's faster clears and better mana sustain.

Plus you're not gonna be levelling W until the very end and until then the movement speed boost isn't that large, so I think the faster clear speed at least evens it out.

Note: 30% bonus movement speed for 3 seconds, while certainly not anything to sneeze at during ganks, isn't that big of a deal while moving between camps.

[Bardiche]

Plus you're not gonna be levelling W until the very end and until then the movement speed boost isn't that large, so I think the faster clear speed at least evens it out.

Note: 30% bonus movement speed for 3 seconds, while certainly not anything to sneeze at during ganks, isn't that big of a deal while moving between camps.

Every second counts. No reason not to grab every last bit of advantage you can. I'm not completely convinced the Echoes are going to be better than Runeglaive for clears, but we'll see. Lower AP means her Q does less damage, her E does less damage, so the Echoes would need to offset all that in order to retain clear speed.

[Ryuu]

I didn't miss that part (though I missed it was 18 instead of , but there is a point to using W when not ganking. Why would you eschew faster movement inbetween camps? Minimising the time you spend farming and maximising the time you spend ganking hinges on strategic use of W.

because there could be wards in the jungle. one of evelynn's strengths is that you have to ward on the camps to see her in the jungle. if you just do the normal large vision wards, you might miss her if she cloaks and walks through your ward. also "farming faster" isn't exactly the best use of it either. the best reason to use it in the jungle is to path somewhere faster than your opposing jungler and gank before they can. if you're just trying to superfarm the jungle as eve, you aren't playing her right imo

[Raikaria]

So apparently the Rumble jungle thing actually went through just Rito didn't put it in the patch notes.

Plus you're not gonna be levelling W until the very end and until then the movement speed boost isn't that large, so I think the faster clear speed at least evens it out.

You should definitely take 1 W level for the slow removal and to help you get in Ravage range after entering Hate Spike range. [Is the kind of slimeball who actually plays Evelynn sometimes] Also the fact Eve actually ignores unit collision during the 3 seconds of W helps more than you would think when ganking.

Also the new jungle item is probobly a mixed blessing for Eve. It's certainly less damage than Runeglaive was on lone champions. [And generally that's what Eve wants to attack; Ult a group chase down a straggler in  the chaos] Especially since Ravage directly applied it. However Eve also loves the 10% movement speed since it lets her get around the map faster so she can flank better, and has less time between being visible and attacking her victims. Not sure what's better for clearspeed; especially since factoring in the MS is difficult.

[チソウ タイゼン]

The quality of the people in Ranked has taken a massive hit as of late. Does it have anything to do with
1) off-season
2) Poro King
because if so god i wish i'd known this before going 3w5l this evening

[Ryuu]

preseason ranked is always terrible

[triangles]

I actually think I'll be giving ranked another try this time around, I'm looking forward to the Team Builder-esque system.  RIP slapfights over mid.

Poro King is very silly.

In other news I discovered my new spirit animal that was released while I was on hiatus - Bard, KING OF ROFL.  I haven't took an immediate shine to a champ this quickly since Quinn.  What's the best build for him I'm so out of the loop?  I'm in garbage elo so it probably doesn't matter too too much but still.

[Ryuu]

i don't think the support builds have actually changed all that much in a long time, so mostly the same things you would build on any support for a while now

there's a new set of sightstone items but they are all bad and not worth losing your active item over. oh, but they moved spooky ghosts onto frost queen's claim and buffed the shit out of it, so that line of items is pretty decent on him too.

[Mr. Sacchi]

there's a new set of sightstone items but they are all bad and not worth losing your active item over.

idk ryuu, i've been having a lot of success with them on my naut since it gives me one more item slot to itemize against the enemy team.

[Iryan]

So I tried support Illaoi... and it 1. works and 2. is fun.
She has no true CC at all, not even a slow (except for when someone becomes a vessel). But the pulled spirits can be damaged very efficiently if you are two people and not one, and since her tentacles heal for each enemy you hit, you are gonna have an appropriately increased amount of sustain and in-combat healing from being up against two enemies.

Of course, you would want to have some CC in your team somewhere else, but that is not really too difficult to do.  :3

oh, but they moved spooky ghosts onto frost queen's claim and buffed the shit out of it, so that line of items is pretty decent on him too.

They also simultaneously hit the coin-line with the big black nerf stick. These two things combined made me switch from "coin on every non-tank" to "spellthief on every non-tank" with the first preseason patch.  :derp:

[Ryuu]

idk ryuu, i've been having a lot of success with them on my naut since it gives me one more item slot to itemize against the enemy team.

i can't really justify taking the sightstone upgrades over face of the mountain personally. or really, over any of the active upgrades. the actives are universally good against any enemy team

[Raikaria]

i can't really justify taking the sightstone upgrades over face of the mountain personally. or really, over any of the active upgrades. the actives are universally good against any enemy team

So is having an extra capacity in your inventory for wards [viva higher sightstone limit earlier in the game]; extra active/passive items [EG: Locket/Banner; Crucible; Zekes] and Pinks. FotM+Sightstone is 2 item slots.

And Face of the Mountain is easily the weakest of the three gold item actives. It's honestly not often that someone getting beaten down is going to be saved by it. [To the point I don't even build Relic Shield even on melee. I just go Coin] With Frost Queen in it's current state you can't justify ever making that into an Eye, but Face of the Mountain certainly can be justified.

[Ryuu]

with things like zed, yasuo, jax, irelia, etc. carry killers being really popular right now, i can't agree that the sightstone upgrade is worth more than extra hp on your carry vs fighters and assassins