Touhou 12.8: The Great Fairy Wars ~ Touhou Three Fairies

[Serela]

Her arm scares me ):

[Reddyne]

I'm posting in this thread because everyone else has! Liking Kasen already, although whether she stays near the top or not has yet to be seen. The prosthetic arm motif is certainly an interesting one.

I wonder what obscure power she has

Considering the number of powers ZUN has gone through, I'd imagine she either has the power to make water buffalo tap dance or make people post only good comments on youtube.

Try as I may, I'm simply not excited for this game at all. I'll rather wait for TH13

My interest in this one is directly proportional to how the frozen bullet mechanics and other things are handled. To be short, the further away from StB and DS it is, the more I'll like it.

[Tengukami]

You do know the capturing/elimination of fields of bullets is used in StB and DS?

[Kilgamayan]

I think he just hates Aya.

I can't really blame him. If I had several cons ruined by constant interaction with a fat retard in an Aya costume I'd probably hate her too.

[BeyPok?Dig]

...blah blah Kasen is based on Ibaraki Douji, the only one of Shuten Douji's group to survive. He later sought revenge on one of the group who vanquished the Ooeyama oni, Watanabe no Tsuna, blah blah...

When i read this, i googled all four names mentioned. I knew that Ooeyama will probably give me link to Yuugi (Flower Studded Sake Dish on >MOUNT OOE<), but when i was linked by something else too, i clicked the link and found this in the Fun Facts section:

In the legend of Shuten Douji, a particularly vicious oni who lived atop Mt. Ooeyama, one of Shuten Douji's four strongman demons was named Hoshiguma Douji.

Hoshiguma DOUJI? Another Douji? What's next, Suika was originally supposed to be named Suika Shuten?

Suika's name is similar in appearance to that of Shuten Douji, the leader of the oni that lived on Mt. Ooeyama. As a result, some Japanese fans think she might be based somewhat on Shuten Douji. Shuten Douji is sometimes said to have been abandoned after birth at the foot of Mt. Ibuki, and to have been previously been known as Ibuki Douji.

Oh, so Shuten was originally named Ibuki, not other way round. WAIT WHAT YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING 

Douji Ibuki
Douji Hoshiguma
Douji Ibaraki

Well, i guess that this implies two things:
1) Kasen is probably 3rd Mountain Deva
2) Look what i forgot to quote:

...blah blah Ibaraki Douji is said to have various relationships with Shuten Douji, and is alternately his son, or actually a woman and his lover blah blah...

OH HAKUREI GOD NO _yes? THAT MEANS THAT SUIKA?KASEN IS SEMI-OFFICIAL
AND PREPARE FOR SEMI-OFFICIAL "KASEN IS SUIKA'S DAUGHTER"

[Kasu]

words

I applaud you on your findings good sir(which are slightly unnerving).

I wonder if ZUN actually thought it out like this.

[Kilgamayan]

Given 2ch took no time at all to start pairing her with Suika, it's a good bet that he did indeed think this out.

[Anon]

Kasen deva stuff.

Ah, but you miss the clincher. Douji Ibaraki lost his right arm in an incident while seeking revenge and it was stolen from him. He quested to get it back through trickery.

Now tell me. Do you remember what Kasen's character title is? Do you remember what is significant about her right arm? And what is she currently seeking at the moment that may or may not get resolved in the first chapter?

EDIT: Oh yes. I forgot. Of course, all of this is speculation. As such, it is all useless in proving something true. But it's fun all the same.

[Serela]

I wonder when we'll find the 4th Deva, then.

[Recon 5]

I hope you guys don't seriously think ZUN put as much thought into all this as fans have. We all know that the quality of his games takes a hit when he becomes sober enough to put thought into anything besides bullet patterns.

[Kasu]

I hope you guys don't seriously think ZUN put as much thought into all this as fans have.

I know.  :3

[BeyPok?Dig]

Ah, but you miss the clincher. Douji Ibaraki lost his right arm in an incident while seeking revenge and it was stolen from him. He quested to get it back through trickery.

Now tell me. Do you remember what Kasen's character title is? Do you remember what is significant about her right arm? And what is she currently seeking at the moment that may or may not get resolved in the first chapter?

EDIT: Oh yes. I forgot. Of course, all of this is speculation. As such, it is all useless in proving something true. But it's fun all the same.

Well, i don't really know anything about devas except that they are four onis. Does having one arm mean you can't be deva?
Anyways, i always thought that thinking that Konngara is one of devas is stupid, because no way ZUN planned this since Touhou 1. And i still think that. However, i have just realised that this doesn't mean he can't make her one of devas now, because she doesn't really have any official background. Also, i find the fact that both Jigoku and Makai suddenly returned in two consecutive games (J11, M12) highly suspicious. Especially since Yuugi and other onis moved suspiciously close to Jigoku. Maybe Touhou 13 will be HRtP-style game? 12.0 .3 .5 and .8 are all different types of games, maybe ZUN will make 13 different too? And make some PC-98 characters return? Return of Konngara would be excellent trolling IMO, because most people would expect return of certain other character from HRtP, one with already existing story, one that ZUN has experience writing dialogue for, one with fans, one apparently liked even by ZUN (at least in the past), if you know who i mean (hint: not Reimu)(actually, that would be logical, so that's not going to happen)

[日巫子]

The idea of Kasen being the 3rd Deva passed my mind, although this throws my theory that both Konngara and YuugenMagan are the other two Devas right out the window.  If Kasen really is the 3rd Deva, I hope that at least the 4th one is Konngara.

It would be pretty interesting if Kasen became a hermit after all the Oni went underground.  Yuugi mentioned that there were no mountains to climb underground in SA.  That could possibly imply that the Devas haven't been hanging out as much, and Kasen just up and left the group.  Yuugi probably taught herself to fight while holding sake because Suika was aboveground, Kasen became a hermit, and Konngara (if you don't mind, I'm sticking the title of the 4th Deva on her) wouldn't leave the Silent Shrine.

Anyways, i always thought that thinking that Konngara is one of devas is stupid, because no way ZUN planned this since Touhou 1. And i still think that. However, i have just realised that this doesn't mean he can't make her one of devas now, because she doesn't really have any official background.

I don't think ZUN planned the 4 Devas from the very start, but you're right.  He could easily make Konngara one of the Devas.  If you really look, she's actually vaguely similar to Yuugi in that they both have one horn and carry sake dishes while they fight.

Edit:  Actually, I don't agree with you thinking the Konngara Deva theory is stupid, because I still support that theory.

Return of Konngara would be excellent trolling IMO, because most people would expect return of certain other character from HRtP, one with already existing story, one that ZUN has experience writing dialogue for, one with fans, one apparently liked even by ZUN (at least in the past), if you know who i mean (hint: not Reimu)(actually, that would be logical, so that's not going to happen)

While other people might feel trolled, I certainly wouldn't.  I've been more eager to see Konngara than who you're talking about.  I would actually be really surprised to see the other anticipated character appear, because I've started to assume she went and got herself reincarnated after Mystic Square.

blah blah words

[Nobu]

I hope you guys don't seriously think ZUN put as much thought into all this as fans have. We all know that the quality of his games takes a hit when he becomes sober enough to put thought into anything besides bullet patterns.

I think ZUN plans more than he lets on, but even he can't anticipate or theorize everything. Obviously he has to think about *something* while he drinks.

[Tiliesola x01]

I hope you guys don't seriously think ZUN put as much thought into all this as fans have.

Are you kidding?  Go wash your face and read CoLA 25.

If there's one thing ZUN has shown over the years, it's that he loves sticking little details like this in on purpose.  c.f. Kanako and Suwako's relationship being based on the kamiyuzuri from the Kojiki, why Yukari's name is Yakumo from CoLA 25, why Lunarians are basically immortal, why the flower incident happens every 60 years from the Seasonal Dream Vision short story, etc.  If ZUN introduced a new character as "The One-armed, Horned Hermit - Kasen Ibara (Kasen Ibaraki)" and made her story so that it conveniently shares aspects with that of Ibaraki Douji, an oni who was well-represented in Japanese art in the 18th and 19th centuries and at one point lost his right arm and had to go looking for it, he probably did it on purpose - he's got a record of doing things like that.  The real question is what it really means.  Too bad this comes out every other month.

Of course, I could be wrong - it's not like it would be the first time!

Well, i don't really know anything about devas except that they are four onis.

The "Four Devas of the Mountain" in Touhou are oni based on characters in the Shuten Douji legend.  Their leader was Shuten Douji, and his second in command was Ibaraki Douji.  The four strongest members of his band were Kuma Douji, Hoshiguma Douji, Kaneguma Douji, and Toraguma Douji.  The only real important thing is whether ZUN goes out of his way to make a connection between a Touhou character and a legendary character.  (Four Devas is just one translation of 四天王, which is a ... fairly commonly used term.  Groups of characters bear this name in series as diverse as Final Fantasy, Digimon, and Hokuto no Ken.)

In this case, you don't get to be in the group if you're not (or weren't at some point) an oni, since it's a group of four oni ...

[Napalnman1231]

Her arm scares me ):

I thought like you before, but in an instant I reminded Megaman :3

[Zengar Zombolt]

(Four Devas is just one translation of 四天王, which is a ... fairly commonly used term.)

...So Deva = Heavenly King?

[E-Nazrin]

IT'S A GROUP OF FOUR

THEY'RE ALL GOING TO DIE

Somewhat more seriously, neat to get a glimpse at the mythology behind this one.

[Reddyne]

I think he just hates Aya.

I can't really blame him. If I had several cons ruined by constant interaction with a fat retard in an Aya costume I'd probably hate her too.

I don't think that's it. I'm guessing it's more related to the fact that at a certain point, I could retry a stage one hundred times and fail just as many  without any sign of improvement. Even if the stars aligned and I kicked some serious ass to beat a level, my REWARD for doing so was MORE PUNISHMENT. I just beat Mokou for the first time. I spent a fewer number of times memorizing her stage and all of its intricacies, and the details and exploitation methods of all the spell cards, than I did on the stages in StB or DS on which I gave them up. It doesn't matter one lick to me that I beat stage 8-whatever in DS. I beat Mokou and actually feel like I did something.

That, and I can't count how many times I came up short one single photo, the number of times I mashed the Z key at 98% and died the next instant, the number of times I had to sit back and watch myself get swarmed by seven hundred bullets after I took a picture one pixel shy of its intended target, and the number of times at mid-game that I'd just huddle in a corner taking pictures of bullets until something stupid killed me. Why would I enjoy this type of experience?

[ebarrett]

(AYARAGE, plus Mokou what-is-the-opposite-of-rage-again?)

Late StB/DS stages are (sometimes much) harder than IN Extra, duh!

Also, if you're dying repeatedly in the same way in a level, that's the cue for trying something completely different, even if it looks stupid. But yeah sometimes you can just hit a seamless ceiling, and insisting on something you maybe do not have the skillset to deal with yet will only lead to more raging and smashing and foaming at the mouth.

[Kilgamayan]

Why would I enjoy this type of experience?

Because Aya is hot.

:V

[Drake]

ZUN is cool. He definitely plans out all these things. Fans tend to demean the effort he puts into doing all this stuff because he's a drunkard and obviously people can't think of all these things when they're drunk, but I'm pretty certain the fans don't put enough faith into ZUN putting in enough thought about his own characters. There is way too much of a correlation between his characters and mythology and such to be bulled, and he's proved quite thoroughly in his written works that he works hard fabricating and shaping Gensokyo's universe.

[Pesco]

Replace her buns with socks and she looks like Tewi to me.

[Lloyd Dunamis]

The Three Fairies in an official game!
I am soooooooo delighted to hear this!!~<3  >w<

*pardon for not reading the rest of the posts*

[BeyPok?Dig]

Edit:  Actually, I don't agree with you thinking the Konngara Deva theory is stupid, because I still support that theory.

Actually, you still agree with me because i meant that thinking she was supposed to be deva since TH1 is stupid. The theory actually makes sense because of TH11&12.

The "Four Devas of the Mountain" in Touhou are oni based on characters in the Shuten Douji legend.  Their leader was Shuten Douji, and his second in command was Ibaraki Douji.  The four strongest members of his band were Kuma Douji, Hoshiguma Douji, Kaneguma Douji, and Toraguma Douji.  The only real important thing is whether ZUN goes out of his way to make a connection between a Touhou character and a legendary character.  (Four Devas is just one translation of 四天王, which is a ... fairly commonly used term.  Groups of characters bear this name in series as diverse as Final Fantasy, Digimon, and Hokuto no Ken.)

In this case, you don't get to be in the group if you're not (or weren't at some point) an oni, since it's a group of four oni ...

Thanks for interesting information! I guess that this pretty much confirms it. I misunderstood Anon's post and i thought he is proving that she is NOT deva.
I wonder what will Konngara's (or 4th deva's) name be? Konngara Kuma? Konngara Kaneguma? Konngara Toraguma?

[Reddyne]

Late StB/DS stages are (sometimes much) harder than IN Extra, duh!

Also, if you're dying repeatedly in the same way in a level, that's the cue for trying something completely different, even if it looks stupid. But yeah sometimes you can just hit a seamless ceiling, and insisting on something you maybe do not have the skillset to deal with yet will only lead to more raging and smashing and foaming at the mouth.

I think regardless of the level I reach, I'm already sick enough of the style of play that I'll never bother to pick up either again. I don't like them, hence, I don't want to play them.

Because Aya is hot.

:V

'Kay. Call me back when one of the two dozen other Touhous who I think are hotter get their own game.

[日巫子]

Actually, you still agree with me because i meant that thinking she was supposed to be deva since TH1 is stupid. The theory actually makes sense because of TH11&12.

I did notice that pattern...and Makai also appears in HRtP, and there are two final bosses in that game... :3

I wonder what will Konngara's (or 4th deva's) name be? Konngara Kuma? Konngara Kaneguma? Konngara Toraguma?

Konngara Kaneguma sounds pretty.  So, if you used this and the kanji in Yuugi's surname...

鋆熊 矜羯羅 ? (Kaneguma Konngara; this is pure speculation)

My kanji skills still suck really bad, though; I had to go to the Touhou Wiki to get all the kanji after "kane" x_x

Edit: Oh, hold on, I just went back on jisho and look up the different kanji in Konngara's name for the lulz:  矜 means "pride/respect", 羯 means "barbarian", and the last one (羅) means "silk" (the last one was on the Touhou Wiki)...I don't really get it.

[Tengukami]

Edit: nvm

[Zengeku]

Hmm... i was wondering when we'd see the 3rd oni girl. The arguments for how this one is indeed the 3rd deva seems solid enough.

ZUN is cool. He definitely plans out all these things. Fans tend to demean the effort he puts into doing all this stuff because he's a drunkard and obviously people can't think of all these things when they're drunk, but I'm pretty certain the fans don't put enough faith into ZUN putting in enough thought about his own characters.

Meh? ZUN? Capable of thought? Implausible. He is just a druken pedophile who somehow know how to make shooting games.

[Azure Lazuline]

He does plan a large number of things, and I won't doubt that he plans the characters to match up with mythology or famous people. That's the funnest part of writing a story, or at least that's what my story-writing friend says. However, some of the little details or links that the fans come up with just seem to insignificant... but I just woke up ten minutes ago, so I can't give any specifics. I do think this particular case is planned, though.