Author Topic: Path of Radiance Mafia -Game Over- (Read 121468 times)

Shadoweh · « **Reply #900 on:** January 21, 2012, 12:25:57 AM »

Quote from: Affinity on January 20, 2012, 11:59:45 PM

scum watcher

Oh god I can't take any more of this. I'm a one-shot vig. Our 'doctor' role was a bulletproof. In theory Conq would be watching for an investigative role, but no one but Conqueror has found investigative claims suspicious for reasons related to setup, either today or yesterday. In theory the roleblocker is scum, so the 'scum watcher' wouldn't be looking at him. Townside, there aren't enough people to watch. This is silly. Also, Conq didn't stick to his townread. He declared him null and immediately started pressing him to claim. This tells me that Conq is the real deal.

Effectively yesterday was a scum lynch. We're not any further behind even though town was lynched. There's no reason not to let Conqueror live to prove his claim, the same way you agreed we should have let PX live to prove his. And by that I mean die violently tonight unless scum wants to play Russian Roulette. The reasons to keep suspecting Conq are horrible. This lynch is flavored by scum. PICK SOMEONE ELSE.

Basically everyone is suffering from once-bitten, twice-shy syndrome. No one wants to be fooled twice. But unless Pesco is the cop there is no one else who fits. The only thing worse then letting PX live for one day would be if we lynch a real power role right afterwards.

Dormio: That actually does sound like Helepolis logic. I think he would be getting more assistance on how to sound normal if he was scum, his answers have been pretty prompt. When we were buddies he did most of his thinking in the QT. The not-knowing is more of a null-tell because he really wouldn't know as either alignment.

Zakeri would be acceptable as I've said. Anyone is more acceptable then Conqueror to me right now.

THERE WERE NO POSTS FOREVER AND NOW I'VE BEEN CUT FOUR TIMES. I HATE ALL OF YOU.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #901 on:** January 21, 2012, 12:32:35 AM »

I like my vote where it is though, personally. BT's reasons for voting Conq struck me as the most flaily and the most opposite of what he was actually saying (Dormio is the embodiment of all evil let's kill Conq what that claim is totes scum it's not like I have another suspect or anything). As scum it's hard to put effort into your posts three times too. :V

Affinity · « **Reply #902 on:** January 21, 2012, 12:55:00 AM »

@Conq

Quote

I'll point you to your own setup for cop + watcher + vig + , so this talking point is full of it. The main point is that I don't know what the full setup is, and what PRs the scumteam may or may not have. I'll take "balance" into consideration but I'm not going to lynch someone solely off of it. I felt PX's flaky play could have somewhat fit that of a PR.

My cop could only come out N3 (and on alternate nights), and my bulletproof vig couldn't claim, and scum had a recruiter going against all traditional scumhunting techniques (which I doubt so here). It's an invalid point in this setup.

Quote

Nothing is "town-affirming" of course, confirmed townies are rare to come across in mafia. Your talking points in this particular post seem to be "well conq's claim doesn't confirm him as town" which is a given. Let's not talk hypotheticals; what do you really think?

Your interactions with PX are strengthened if your claim is true. I believe I've explained it fully in my above post.

Quote

I dunno, I've been pretty loud and brash. Tell us about Helepolis' vote on rawr. What did it consist of, if you recall? What premises is Helepolis working from in his scumcase on Zakeri?

Certainly not to the extent where Helepolis has been continuously offering reasoning that no one is willing to accept in this playerbase, and yet going ahead anyway and attracting attention. Helepolis thought that rawr's tone of voice against him was that of scum following instructions and that scum were behind the subtle push behind PX/HW, as BT raised; perhaps questionable premises but the reasoning is far more sound then your assumption that PX is town cause he is. He goes at Zakeri for lack of content and late positions on wagons with little justification, which I suppose is one of the few valid reasons for going after Zakeri. Due credit should be given.

Affinity · « **Reply #903 on:** January 21, 2012, 01:33:02 AM »

@Shadoweh:

Conq saying that PX was nullish solely because he was inactive is certainly not indicative of alignment or role. A few words on 'balance' and 'flavour' doesn't mean a thing if he did not engage in any further attempt to read the D2 cases on PX and at least give an opinion on him more detailed than the one he gave yesterday. Not really seeing how he was instrumental in pushing him to L-1.

I'm not understanding your thought processes in your setup speculation against a possible scum watcher. If you think that it was a reasonable action for Conq to accept the possibility of two investigative roles in the setup (an already borderline unacceptable assumption to make), then why are you using the reasoning that there can't be any role other than a bulletproof or a one-shot vig townside if Conq is a scum watcher? Town neighbourizer, among others, are possibilities that aren't nearly as outlandish.

Lastly, it's not so much once bitten twice shy as there being already being a flipped scum to work with, a totally different thing from PX's case. Conq's interactions with PX are made even more inexcusable by considering his claim to be true, and all these facts present a miasma of suspicion thick enough for me not to want to wait and see tonight.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #904 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:14:32 AM »

Because the third investigator doesn't exist otherwise. This game isn't role-madness enough for a scum watcher to make any sense.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #905 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:25:30 AM »

About two investigatives in general: Cop + watcher or Cop + tracker isn't that unheard of in regular setups, which presumably we're playing. The game is a bit bigger then just 1-Shot Vig + Bulletproof.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #906 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:37:06 AM »

If we're going to talk about "Ties to flipped scum" Then we have "Conq pressed PX repeatedly to claim early while PX blissfully ignored him". If they had been on the same team I believe Conq's requests would have gotten more attention from his partner. Also that his hakeneyed flavor would be better. (This is also why I suspect Affinity and Zakeri. Affinity tends to leave his partners to make their way with flavor and Zakeri isn't here often to assist in fakeclaims.)

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #907 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:25:41 AM »

Shadoweh, if you suspect Affinity and Zakeri, why is your vote on BT? I find it hard to believe all three of them are scum together. Explained priorities would be nice about now.
That said, Scum Watcher isn't exclusive to Role Madness so much as exclusive to games with consistently active power roles (read: not Bulletproof or One-Shot Night Vig) so that scum can find the cop or doc with accurate prediction.

Affinity, I'm not suspicious of you based on process of elimination so much as that I think your earlier interactions with PX were scummy given his flip. Fair point about PX's Zak vote, though. The main reason I interpreted PX as having the intent of pushing Dan as a mislynch rather than using the Dan wagon as a votepark was because his posts seem to aggressively attack Dan instead of just sit around waiting for the voteswitch. With this in mind, I'd be content with a Zak lynch if we can't lynch Helepolis today.

On a related note, I'm actually interested in hearing what Zak thinks of Conq. The fact that he never actually revealed what he had on Conq when posting #822 makes it harder to hold him accountable for anything following a Conq flip. This especially applies now that we've heard a claim.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #908 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:57:39 AM »

Because he waffled wrong at me. Although I supose it could be Affinity + Zakeri. I believe BT could also be scum due to his lack of fakeclaim experience. As scum he literally claimed his role. Also Serela clones, bullets, face. Obviously it's not Affinity + Zak + BT that would be alot of scums. You understand what I mean about the watcher at least.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #909 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:42:07 AM »

Umm, It's true a Helelpolis/Conqueror scumteam is probably not as likely as I'm hoping it is. This is the part of the game where I actually do sit down and Iso-read everyone that's not semi-confirmed town for weird things in reference to. Still not defending against the wagon on Conq plus I'm still suspicious of him being pants on head about how rolebalancing works.
As for Alternative suspects, I think BT would be the best person to look into. Partially due to PX's softclaim attempt, and partially because of votecount analysis of day 2.

@Affinity: The case against PX wasn't my only reason, it was the point of attack in my case on him, and what I questioned because it would give a better read on him.

Quote from: Helepolis

Concluding things from here:
- Obvious Dormio defense.
- Liar --> for making 3 line "in-depth" explanation post.
- Echoing my own case in D2 against HW, sounds like wagon fuelling.

1. I didn't like the case on dormio.
2. If your indepth analysis of a persons alignment on day one is longer than three lines, you're trying too hard.
3. I tend to be rather transparent with my intentions. That is to say, if I observe something, I'll say it as "I Don't like" or "I think that", and if I'm sheeping someone, I'll say "I agree with X when s/he says Y about Z". If I'm echoing a case, that just means I figured out the same things, not that I'm rewording someone else's case.

It's cute how you finish the Wagon analysis on Rawr in that same post with pointing out something I and PX did on coincident. Do you actually think two different scum would do the same inconsequential thing two days in a row, or are you just trying to pad out the case on me with useless information since you know I'm not scum?

Quote from: Affinity, 897

There's also the issue in which I believe that his vote on rawr over PX D2 was fine (compared to Zakeri's and Conq's interactions with PX).

Could you expand on this? I don't see where his reasoning makes more sense compared to other people's, considering it contains his defense/waffle over PX despite his many, many assertions that no one is not fair game at any point in time.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #910 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:54:46 AM »

Oh, right, I'm playing this game.

Am I the only one that wonders whether or not there is daytalk? I mean, everyone that isn't me seems to assume that scum have daytalk.

Pesco · « **Reply #911 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:56:40 AM »

How would the presence of daytalk affect your reads?

I'm seeing words and I'm not comprehending them. I'm almost inclined to hammer Hele without further ado so that we can get a flip and move on.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #912 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:59:09 AM »

Not my reads, per se, but the talk about "If Hele is scum, his buddies would have told him to X" etc.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #913 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:59:37 AM »

As far as I'm aware, "I won't say whether there's daytalk or not" is just how the mods on this forum tell us scum have daytalk while remaining coy about it to be fair to scum.

I wouldn't complain about an early hammer now that Zak has posted, Pesco. I don't feel like we're going to get much more out of the day right now that isn't noise - most people except for Shadoweh seem pretty set in lynching one of Hele / Conq, and I don't think there's enough combined interest to start a wagon on a secondary suspect like Affinity, Zak or BT right now.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #914 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:10:08 AM »

Although I would prefer not to hammer Hele, like at all because he's town, as long as it isn't Conqueror. I do hope he puts good thought into who he targets tonight. I suggest communing with nature and taking a walk to have inspiration strike you.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #915 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:17:19 AM »

I'm not feeling the case for obvtown!Hele, and I get the impression we need a flip to move on right now based on how stagnant everybody's votes seem to be. I've re-read multiple times since the start of the day, but have not come up with any convictions stronger than my vote on Helepolis, and I don't see any mindblowing cases being presented by other players.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #916 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:19:23 AM »

They wouldn't be so stagnant if the rest of you would stop ignoring them and push some votes on their sleepy hides.

Affinity · « **Reply #917 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:24:57 AM »

Quote

About two investigatives in general: Cop + watcher or Cop + tracker isn't that unheard of in regular setups, which presumably we're playing. The game is a bit bigger then just 1-Shot Vig + Bulletproof.

@Shadoweh: Examples? With a bulletproof (not necessarily oneshot) and a one-shot vig, as it should be from Conq's point of view at that time?

Quote

Could you expand on this? I don't see where his reasoning makes more sense compared to other people's, considering it contains his defense/waffle over PX despite his many, many assertions that no one is not fair game at any point in time.

@Zakeri: Elaborated it here. His premises are weird and hard to believe, but his way of arriving at his conclusions are clearer in this post than, say, your subjective clear of PX (almost identical with Conq's).

If you case on huhwhat was mainly a work in progress as you say, then why didn't you elaborate it here, when huhwhat had already answered you?

Furthermore, in brief, why do you feel that Conqueror is less scummy than Helepolis?

Quote

As for claims, I've never been good at knowing what to make of claims. Something about Conq's feels a bit off, but will require more reading. And that needs sleep.

@Dormio: what do you really think about Conq's roleclaim now? You should at least finalize your opinion before the day ends.

===

Not fine with an early hammer just yet. I want Zakeri to elaborate on a few things before the day ends, given his iffiness throughout the game so far.

Pesco · « **Reply #918 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:25:39 AM »

Kitten won't do the flip. Moar herpderp words until Schezo gets here:<

In terms of looking at the votes, the pileup on Rawr would mean Shadoweh to Conq are the suspicious ones. Affinity's deadline hammer is null. Shadoweh is in the clear unless we see her fire s second shot (then she's lying SKum). HW has been some back and forth, but not a high pick at this stage with reasonable scumhunting. I don't actually have any logical reason to clear Dormio other than :effort: and gut. His posts are kinda horrible to reread. Conq remains the top of my pile because when I looked over the ending vote actions on D2, there's some wierdness. When he voted Rawr he said he didn't do it because the wagon would be 3 votes. But there was no change when when Zak reconfirmed his vote and then he's happy to make that 3 vote wagon. Reading back from that, I don't see where the HW vote came from.

Pesco · « **Reply #919 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:27:42 AM »

And this time it's definitely Shadoweh's fault and she knows it.

Schezo · « **Reply #920 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:28:40 AM »

Voting:
Helepolis (4): Huh What, Dormio, Conq, Zakeri (L-1)
Conq (4): Affinity, Pesco, Helepolis, BT (L-1)
BT (1): Shadoweh

Not Voting:
Conq is at L-1
Helepolis is at L-1

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline for day 3 is in ~18.5 hours Watch Timer Here

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #921 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:29:58 AM »

Quote from: Pesco on January 21, 2012, 07:25:39 AM

I don't actually have any logical reason to clear Dormio other than :effort: and gut. His posts are kinda horrible to reread.

This is why Dormio is OP. People just subconsciously assume he's town on later days and forget that he's playing because they don't want to analyze his twitterposts.

Cut: What's that about Schezo not being here?
I'd be fine waiting for Zak like Affinity said, though.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #922 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:32:18 AM »

Quote from: Pesco on January 21, 2012, 07:25:39 AM

Reading back from that, I don't see where the HW vote came from.

Is this about my vote on rawr, or Conq's vote on me?

Pesco · « **Reply #923 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:33:09 AM »

Conq's vote on you.

@mod: You're pulling an all-nighter if Zak decides to take his sweet time replying

Schezo: Well shit. I may go to bed soon if that's so.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #924 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:38:49 AM »

Quote from: Affinity on January 21, 2012, 07:24:57 AM

@Dormio: what do you really think about Conq's roleclaim now? You should at least finalize your opinion before the day ends.

I find it to be believable enough.

Quote from: huh what on January 21, 2012, 07:29:58 AM

This is why Dormio is OP. People just subconsciously assume he's town on later days and forget that he's playing because they don't want to analyze his twitterposts.

Until I'm lynched on D5? :V

Shadoweh · « **Reply #925 on:** January 21, 2012, 08:28:36 AM »

:< It seemed like a ~~horrible bad okayish~~ okay so it didn't seem like a good idea at the time but by then it was chaotic and messy.
PS don't lynch Dormio on Day 5 or I'll vig you all from beyond the grave.

Helepolis · « **Reply #926 on:** January 21, 2012, 08:37:59 AM »

Shadoweh, that is what I have been telling as well. If Conq is Town as you believe it then this explains the wagon stances. They want any of us lynched. If Conq is town and actually starts using his brain, he would actually search for other scum targets, since we both claimed. Except his stubborn and still being confusing. Pro-Town does not confuse people. And a Vanilla Town also shouldn't fucking confuse people. If I can clearly answer all questions, why can't other people do them? Like Dormio + Zakeri, who have been more dodgy then ever up until this day.

I call a wagon on Dormio, (preferred over Zakeri), mainly because he admitted he'd see both of us lynched and still didn't tell his opinion on the claims or what to think on Conq. Great that Zakeri decided to keep his Posts-Per-Round at avg of 2-post-per-mafia-day rating. But it is not helping.

If Dormio is/was pro-town, he has no reason to be cautious, he has no reason to be dodging and he has no reason to be voting on me. I asked him who else was scummy, he named Conq which I find suspicious if I have to believe Conq's claim.

PS:
Shadoweh, if you believe Conq is Town then I hope he fucking sticks out his fucking head from his ass and starts being useful. I would happy sacrifice myself for the lynch if deadline is approaching but a Townie is going to be shot obviously and then you will all be se_ZUN.wav. Same goes for Town, if you think both of us are Town then consider my Dormio vote.

Not unvoting yet until Conq has read this.

Pesco · « **Reply #927 on:** January 21, 2012, 08:42:14 AM »

Hele what is keeping your vote on Conq going to do? Presuming that you believe his claim at the moment.

Helepolis · « **Reply #928 on:** January 21, 2012, 08:56:43 AM »

Quote from: Pesco on January 21, 2012, 08:42:14 AM

Hele what is keeping your vote on Conq going to do? Presuming that you believe his claim at the moment.

Aren't we being a little hasty/jumpy into false conclusions? I said "IF" and I also said need to hear from Conq.

Helepolis · « **Reply #929 on:** January 21, 2012, 08:59:31 AM »

What is your stance on Dormio, Pesco? I don't buy that you find his posts horrible to re-read, especially at almost end of D3.

What is your opinion on Dormio surviving D1, was chasing BT D2 and switchvoting to Rawr to secure a lynch when the wagon wasn't hot yet? What is your opinion on him echoing Conq on pure unjustified bashing on my D2 actions.