Path of Radiance Mafia -Game Over-

[Helepolis]

@Dormio, not satisfied with your answers. Still cannot track any solid reasoning (CASE!) for you not to lynch PX/HW

Helepolis, that's not answering the question. No one cares about your HW wagon. I want to know why you thought PX was scummy, before you suddenly said nope PX isn't that scummy and jumped to vote rawr. No, you don't get to ask my why I didn't lynch the PX wagon because I never voted him all day and I never thought he was scummy enough to vote. You, on the other hand, thought he was scummy, before suddenly backtracking to vote on rawr.

Nice attempt in attack. And awesome word twisting trying hard to paint me black:

1) I never said "Nope PX isn't scum" and changed my vote. So your accusation is false. (word twisting ho!)
2) I had reasons to doubt Rawr vs PX and stated them clearly and obvious. Answered Pesco clearly as well. (word twisting ho #2)
3) You kept Rawr + BT as suspects (unreasoned). Rawr flipped Town Pesco asked you the same about BT. I questioned you about this, so did Pesco. Yet you came with strange - answers - on these questions

Your defence of how you didn't find PX scummy is blatant trying to slip away from focus and shove it on me. Bardiche had suspected you with GUT. Now that I backread on how you tried hard to sway people away from PX. You kept on asking PX questions (Flavour?). Further more, I actually noticed you jumped into "Guys-wait-PX-isn't-bad" gear the moment and started questioning 'balance' and 'roles' and other things and some more defence of PX.

This is my case and my reason to suspect Conq.

##Unvote
##Vote Conq

I bet Dormio is going to answer my questions now.

[Shadoweh]

Explain for me?

We all joke about Affinity's scum meta being the superbusser for a reason. If he thought Conq's wagon would pick up as scum I could see him going for it. The vote struck me as weird when it happened, so I'm following the weirdness.

BT played along to the town confirmation ignorance after PX said it. It's not something to put stock in. Arguing yourself into WIFOM is stupid. Scum can say whatever they want but it's the actions that they take that will get them caught out. The clearcut actions are votes.

BT also wasn't here/didn't post after PX's claim, which is irksome but ends up with him never having done anything to confirm or deny him. His last action before the day ending was to vote for Conq. I'd like to see what he has to say now about it all.

Running out the door~

[Affinity]

@Conq:

If I'm reading this correctly, your stance was that he was scummy enough for his softclaim to be ignored, but once he claimed a potentially useful power role his lynch is off limits for the day?  If you thought he was scummy enough to vote before the claim, why couldn't he be scum fakeclaiming, like you said?

Yes to the first question, at least for PX.  In general I thought that, in absence of a counterclaim from BT or someone else, the pros of leaving a potential town tracker alive were better than the possibility of PX flipping scum, and that PX's results would give us the required info to make a judgement on his alignment. 

This vote (I've also added your reasons for voting me at the end of yesterday) feels like a stretch. Condensing my D1 into a Trickysticks vote (who is possibly scum anyway) and the choice between two town reads at the end and my D2 into a "BT fixation" is a misrep given that I was involved with questioning and read-gathering (though you can't really see the latter) to get to my decision for those votes. My BT case was still valid at the end given that I think his case on me is bull, and in any case I'm not sure what that latter phrase is supposed to mean. Show me where I asked irrelevant questions and didn't use the answers. Then you can call my play pretend scumhunting.  The only thing to say about the PX clear is that I thought he was town.

Not wanting to make a back and forth on D1 issues, so I'll leave it at that.  Irrelevant questioning, I felt, happened most on Dormio and Serela ED1 (e.g here and here), and others along the lines of "What do you think of BT, X", "Dormio, what are your non-BT reads?", but it's a rather stupid thing to argue about.

Your case on BT, however, was not valid at all beyond the "tunnel-vision beyond the span of two days is scummy" point.  Rereading it, your case started with the questionable 'axiom' that what BT was saying was reportery and null, which people such as me and Bard disagreed with.  BT taking issue with this 'axiom' is a valid point, and answering it back with "yeah, so what?" here avoids the main point.   The fact that you reread him only to discard your entire tome of words on him into a sealed box named 'tunnel-town' is pretty much what I think is ineffectual about your scumhunting.  Why is his tunneling on Dormio suddenly town?  Why are you suddenly making note of his town reads even though you never acknowledged them D2?  Such an explanation draws a huge blank over your D2, to think that your main case in D2 could be averted with a single reread.

I don't buy the way Affinity jumped off of PX yesterday. He had spent the entirity of the day voting him and building up a case against him; why should a claim get him off PX when Affinity knew the claim was coming via PX's earlier softclaim? In addition, I don't like the way he sat on his PX vote yesterday prior to the jumpoff while flinging stuff at other people: cheerleading of the Dormio case, even until today, expressing suspicion of BT yesterday before suddenly turning around and defending him once people start attacking BT for similar reasons, odd defense of Helepolis today while attacking other people for strange reasons.

Not much to say against these points given that I answered most of them already at some point.  I take particular issue with that 'cheerleading for Dormio' point given that I was actively questioning his sudden defensiveness regarding points like 'vote-parking on Conq', which he accepted on D1 without issue but attacked BT for in D2.

I might as well vote Shadoweh for being strange, dark, beautiful and scary.

[Affinity]

I failed to realize that Zakeri posted more than once in D2, so that thing I said about him in my previous post doesn't make sense.  Disregard that and replace it with a general plea for thoughts on people other than huhwhat.

[Pesco]

I've noticed that on MotK, people very rarely look toward the base of mislynch wagons for scum when analyzing town flips. As a result, I ~personally~ avoid jumping onto wagons late as scum here, and would assume other people do the same (but maybe I'm just being self-centered).

:psyduck: (amidoingitrite?) Just something I want to keep in mind when I look over your vote switches.

Currently not liking PX's "I'm going to forget about everything else itg to focus on this one ActionDan post, vote, then disappear" thing. Can't say I'm willing to establish an opinion yet because there's not enough stuff to work with, and voting for him like this would make me a huge hypocrite.

I don't like how this disappeared when PX declared you town.

PX: I like this dude too.

That sounds kinda gay man :wat: I'm gonna ask you to dig through the mess of your brain and refind what about him you liked. There really wasn't a lot of people even paying attention to PX and he didn't feature much in a lot of posts. It's worrying that probably the most obvscum of the scum could get under the radar this much.

People I wouldn't shoot: Affinity, Bard, Pesco, Zak, to a lesser extent Conq and PX

Give me the same as what I asked Dormio.

Both HW and Affinity voted PX in the first half of Day1. Affinity's vote had an actual case. HW's vote became serious from the initial jokevote and then dropped for a much weaker Dormio vote. Affinity switched to Dormio citing sufficient answers from PX, yet between #133 ("Still not really happy with your answer though, PX") and #154 PX didn't say much. Affinity's #242 gets a little cred for remembering that PX was scummy. Both looking pretty bad for different reasons and I still need to comb through Day2.

Other things of note from Day1:
- Zak didn't exist enough. Lurking scum.
- Tricksy didn't exist enough. Lurking scum.
- BT seriously doesn't exist until someone accuses him of something. Lurking scum.
- Serela is an idiot :derp:

[Schezo]

Due to SOPA site shutdowns and stuff. The deadline shall be extended another 24 hours.

Voting:
Affinity (1): Shadoweh
Helepolis (3): Huh What, Dormio, Conq
Conq (3): Affinity, Pesco, Helepolis

Not Voting: Zakeri, BT

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline for day 3 is in ~55 hours

[BT]

So I made a huge post and the site did what it did so I lost it.

And then I made another big post and my computer shut down so I lost that one too.

I DON'T HAVE THE TIME FOR THIS. Like, literally, I don't have the time for this today so if you don't mind I'll be going through stuff with as much speed as possible. This might get sloppy.  :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear:

I thought PX was town due to gut and how cases on him ran on his laziness/indecisiveness which resembled how Serela got lynched and as a result I saw it as a probable scumpush. Then he did his thing with the soft-claim which looked really weird for scum so that didn't really do anything to make me reconsider my gut.

But then I rage at my gut for making me overlook things like Shadoweh pointing out a possible PX-Dormio scumteam in #479, which totally makes sense. Dormio's been reading PX as town all game and the best reason behind this seems to be "his content makes me think he's town", while PX's been waffling on Dormio as far as I can see, aside from his late-D1 vote that is, which STILL makes sense: considering how Dormio seemed like he was accepting his death while posting, PX, if in the same mindset, could have easily parroted other cases and bussed, which is what I suspect he ended up attempting to do.

Then there's how Dormio kind of noted how he forgot about PX's soft-claim in #536, which was directly after his case on me, although he proceeds to never mention it again like he knew it was no big deal. There's also this thing how the only other thing he did during D2 (and up to now, in fact) is accusing Hele, reconsidering his Conq read over having similar opinions (seriously, what is this?) and that vote on rawr he ended up doing.

So, general reads time. PX wanted HW to get lynched instead of himself with his case (that is the obvious way to interpret it, anyway, and is also the way I choose to do so) so my Town!HW read is solidified. Then there's Zak who I do not recall anything notable from other than his HW case... yeah, I might want new opinions from you! Then there's Pesco who I now have trouble reading as anything but town due to PX-lynch-related-efforts, Shadoweh (who is town) and Affinity-Hele-Conq.

About that... I'm having a hard time seeing Affinity-Conq scum or Hele-Conq scum to the point that I'm willing to go with "it just isn't going to happen". Which would make one of their flips pretty damn delicious.

And there was originally a pretty long nice explanation right here of why I think Conq's late-D2 reeks of scum but I'm honestly goddamn tired of repeating this and don't have the time and it was pretty much on the same note as the other cases so far seeing as they've said pretty much everything that can be said. @_@

But fuck it, I'm going to go over some things anyway. Disregarding PX as possible scum due to his soft-claim despite thinking I'm scum at the same time, which is just silly, let alone reason to rule out what was the main wagon for most of the day. Constant questioning of PX votes, some of these are crafty attempts at defending him etc., etc. Then there's a bunch of passive comments telling PX to expand on his claim while proceeding to do nothing about it, which looks like "I give a fuck about PX so we're definitely not scumbuddies".

Going with ##Vote Conq for the following reasons:
*Currently seeing a Conq-Dormio-PX scumteam, which upon re-reads fits nicely. Lynching Scum A over Scum B shouldn't matter and will only split our wagons in case of my lynching Dormio and I do NOT want another repeat of D2 (in which scum capitalized on VOTES, VOTES EVERYWHERE to get rawr lynched).
*The thing about Conq's flip being so much more productive than Dormio's, especially at the current moment when Dormio's flip will pretty much clear my name and my name only.


Aaiiiee I'm pretty damn mad over this whole retyping posts ordeal and I just want to get this out here.

Man, are even my 'quickposts' this long?

Is this getting extended? Cool. Also, L-1.

[Schezo]

Voting:
Affinity (1): Shadoweh
Helepolis (3): Huh What, Dormio, Conq (L-2)
Conq (4): Affinity, Pesco, Helepolis,BT (L-1)

Not Voting: Zakeri
Conq is at L-1
Helepolis is at L-2

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline for day 3 is in ~55 hours

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

:psyduck: (amidoingitrite?) Just something I want to keep in mind when I look over your vote switches.

Hey, I wouldn't give away my scum meta unless I intended to subvert it later. Of course, that goes for what I'm saying right now, too.

Give me the same as what I asked Dormio.

I at first thought PX was being more aggressive than usual, which gave me an early town read. As the day went on he just sort of slipped my mind when he started posting less, but I never took enough note of it to change the read.

HW's vote became serious from the initial jokevote and then dropped for a much weaker Dormio vote.

The serious vote on PX wasn't really valid, though, because he wasn't saying what I thought he was saying.

So Conq is at L-1. Though I'd rather see Helepolis go, I'd still probably be willing to hammer him if it weren't so early in the day. His switch onto Hele seems unnatural to me - Affinity was a viable wagon and Conq's voteswitch post implied that he still had conviction on Affinity, yet Conq went ahead and switched because Hele was "faking content". This would make sense if Hele only just started throwing out empty accusations, but he was doing that exact same thing to me on D2. Conq, why is it only scummy now that Hele is targetting -you-? I could see this switch as a convenient survival tactic and it irks me.

I also find the points about Conq slamming BT while clearing PX to be very interesting, since I missed those when ISOing him, but I don't have anything to add beyond "I agree".

Pesco, you've been attacking Helepolis a lot more than Conq today. Why do you prefer a Conqueror lynch over a Helepolis lynch? Your priorities have been unclear to me.

[Pesco]

Hele was a secondary suspect I picked up over my rereading. I don't think I've pressed him enough to warrant favouring his lynch over Conq's.

Both wagons are on scummy people, but I'll be sticking with my first choice.

[Affinity]

@pesco: PX between #133 and #154 replied "One is ignoring everything going on, and the other is trying to look like part of what's going on" to the question of why Dan was scummier than Shadoweh, which was a valid answer.  It wasn't so clear in his #124.

Since my Conq thing looks somewhat messy, summary: questionable PX town read, case on BT fluffed up with invalid accusations (e.g I can't understand why you are voting for Dormio), only to completely disregard it today as tunnel-town for little reason.  Nully D1, useless D2 other than a few token questions on rawr and pre-empting the Helepolis case today.  Don't buy that Conq was necessarily defending PX yesterday, but BT's point about Conq going after him while disregarding PX is interesting.  If Conq doubted PX's softclaim due to him lurking, shouldn't the suspicion order be the other way round?

BT, what do you think of Hele scum?  Given that he did something (suspicions switch from PX to rawr) that seemed objectionable at first glance, what are your comments on him independent of your thoughts on Conq?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

How does I make poast?

It's really unnerving how close Conq's thoughts seem to be to mine. Perhaps this is why I can never read him as scum?
Anyway, :wikipedia:.

@Dormio, not satisfied with your answers. Still cannot track any solid reasoning (CASE!) for you not to lynch PX/HW

Why would there be?

That sounds kinda gay man :wat: I'm gonna ask you to dig through the mess of your brain and refind what about him you liked. There really wasn't a lot of people even paying attention to PX and he didn't feature much in a lot of posts. It's worrying that probably the most obvscum of the scum could get under the radar this much.

But since PX flipped scum, this is a thing I should do.
First of all, it looked to me like he was trying in D1. It just seemed really similar to previous games where I read him as scum, only to find him flipping town when he was lynched.
As for D2... I kind of just ignored him and went by what I thought of him D1 due to his lack of activity.

I bet Dormio is going to answer my questions now.

Nope. I went to sleep, then SOPA. I don't really get what questions you're asking me, either.

Then there's how Dormio kind of noted how he forgot about PX's soft-claim in #536, which was directly after his case on me, although he proceeds to never mention it again like he knew it was no big deal.

Fact of the matter is, I didn't care about it at all. What of it?

Going to try to make another post.

[WHMZakeri]

getting this out real quick because it's almost time to sleep, and because I don't know where I stand in terms of prodding since the website took itself down as I was reading the thread.

So it turns out that Huhwhat's case on PX wasn't complete crap, even though I disagreed with the logic. I could probably continue to push a case on him, but I don't think that would fulfill any win condition that's still used in these forums.

Basically, between Conq and Helepolis, Hele is just spilling buckets of bullcrap. Demanding Lists, and then posting vague suspicion lists on everyone, His day 2 conduct really put me off when I looked into it closely, and it doesn't seem to have improved. Vote for Rawr is completely out of line with town thinking (Voting a newbie because they disagree with a proposed method of scumhunting?), and the excuse for keeping his vote in the next post is flakey. Also in that same post, is a complete defense for PX. I see above on this page that he's trying to weasel out of it. He says he didn't say PX wasn't scum, but the paragraph was devoted to asking why people thought PX was acting scummy. He says he had less doubt about scum-rawr than he did scum-PX, but the way I see it, the rawr vote has too weak and too little justification behind it. To me, it's either a paradox, or the result of lying scum to say both of those things are true.

I was going to say I'd prefer his lynch, but wouldn't mind Conq lynch, but reading over Helepolis I just see a ton of stuff that needs addressing, and worse, I see Hele is acting dodgy about it. It would be fair I give Conq a rundown as well, but for now I'm happy with voting.
##Vote: Helepolis

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Why Helepolis is bad 101:

• Don't really like how he immediately jumps into a 1v1 with HW as soon as he replaces in. A lot of his logic, I disagree with. I can go into further depth on this if requested, but it would be like beating a dead horse, methinks.
• His list is crap, and makes his demand for other people to produce a list of their own to be hypocritical. Seriously, fencesitting on everybody in the game. :V
• In addition, despite placing HW and PX as higher priority targets (The only people that he didn't flake on, I might add), who does he help lynch at the end of the day? DrRawr. Now, see, there was a viable PX counter wagon, so I'm wondering why Helepolis didn't go for it? Especially when he hadn't mentioned DrRawr at all throughout the entire game.
• Which makes me wonder about something else. Hey, Helepolis, you say in your second post (#510) that Serela was obvtown to you. I question how you reached this conclusion. Or, rather, why wasn't DrRawr obvtown to you? I think he had a lot in common with Serela.
• Again, I'll express my dislike of his continued pushing for lists and his assertion that failure to produce said list made them scummy, regardless of their prior actions.
• I have no idea what to make of his weird NK speculation, other than that it looks bad.
• Empty unvotes are bad, and I have no idea why Helepolis made one in #634. Seriously, at this point, your other desired lynch PX was at L-2. Why would you not vote for him? Why would you not even mention him?
• Seriously, where the hell did the vote on DrRawr even come from? You call me out for no reasoning, but your DrRawr vote was complete crap. You say yourself in #668 that Rawr could be town, and give yourself an out appropriately. Except, you know, why not go for the person, who happened to be one of two people that you thought was scum?
• Beginning of D3, Helepolis makes a pressure vote, rather than voting for who he thinks is scummy. Seriously, he places a vote on me to get me to explain my shit.
• #807 seems full of BS to me. On the topic of Helepolis asking Conq why he didn't hammer PX, I have to ask again: Why didn't you?
• And what happened to your suspicion of HW anyway? For how gung-ho you were about HW's lynch for a period of time yesterday, you seem to have forgotten all about him. I mean, yeah sure, you mention to Conq in #807 that you haven't cleared HW, but so what? You haven't mentioned him at all today.

[Shadoweh]

It's nice to see we're not as fractured for today. By nice I mean WHY DOES NO ONE EVER VOTE WITH ME
BT appears to have taken instructions from Serela on how to post. :x I find it odd that PX claiming to have confirmation he's town never factored into his read of PX. "He did stuff with it" is incredibly vague and needs to be explained better. In fact alot of the post needs more because it reads like. "Dormio is scum. Oh boy look at how scummy Dormio is. So here's my vote on Conqueror."
Dormio is uhm.. still town. Yup. He's pretty adorable. Notable at the beginning of the game is PX posting normally, then changing to voice recognition after Dormio does it. Methinks if they were scum together they would have trolled together from the start.
Want to know if Zakeri thinks there's a more ideal second suspect then Conq, despite how the votes show. Also, I fixed it. \^_^/

I wouldn't have expected Conq and Hele to be the focus of today. O_o I still haven't had time to reread because suddenly no mafia. I don't really hate either of them?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

WHY DOES NO ONE EVER VOTE WITH ME

nurse rawr - Petrine - a Vanilla Townie was lynched Day 2

[Shadoweh]

Shutup huh what! I don't want to hear your logic! Also, that end of day was.. Let's just say I don't think people were voting with me as much as scrambling to hit something, anything.

[Schezo]

Voting:
Affinity (1): Shadoweh
Helepolis (4): Huh What, Dormio, Conq, Zakeri (L-1)
Conq (4): Affinity, Pesco, Helepolis, BT (L-1)

Not Voting:
Conq is at L-1
Helepolis is at L-1

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline for day 3 is in ~47 hours Watch Timer Here

[Conqueror]

So many questions...all for me!
Catching up now. I expect to be increasingly busy over the next few days, so I'll try to get as much settled right now as possible.

[Helepolis]

• In addition, despite placing HW and PX as higher priority targets (The only people that he didn't flake on, I might add), who does he help lynch at the end of the day? DrRawr. Now, see, there was a viable PX counter wagon, so I'm wondering why Helepolis didn't go for it? Especially when he hadn't mentioned DrRawr at all throughout the entire game.
• Which makes me wonder about something else. Hey, Helepolis, you say in your second post (#510) that Serela was obvtown to you. I question how you reached this conclusion. Or, rather, why wasn't DrRawr obvtown to you? I think he had a lot in common with Serela.

Nice accusing.

##Vote DrRawr
Last hour and I'm doing other stuff.

This is your D2 effort.

I'm voting for you to secure a lynch, and because I don't want PX or HW lynched.
I'm totally not here right now.

I asked you three times already why you didn't want PX lynched. You never explained and still refuse to do it.

Wow, some people are really trying hard to toss out the most biggest bullcrap

• Empty unvotes are bad, and I have no idea why Helepolis made one in #634. Seriously, at this point, your other desired lynch PX was at L-2. Why would you not vote for him? Why would you not even mention him?

Emtpy votes are even worse, Dormio, like yours?

• Seriously, where the hell did the vote on DrRawr even come from?

Pesco asked this. Conq asked this. It was answered. If you cannot read posts, your problem.

• Beginning of D3, Helepolis makes a pressure vote, rather than voting for who he thinks is scummy. Seriously, he places a vote on me to get me to explain my shit.

Why are you worried about the pressure vote? If you're town, you wouldn't have to be worried about this and actually answer the questions.

You still didn't answer, therefore you're being suspiciously scummy now.

• #807 seems full of BS to me. On the topic of Helepolis asking Conq why he didn't hammer PX, I have to ask again: Why didn't you?

Not my problem if you cannot read posts Dormio.

• And what happened to your suspicion of HW anyway? For how gung-ho you were about HW's lynch for a period of time yesterday, you seem to have forgotten all about him. I mean, yeah sure, you mention to Conq in #807 that you haven't cleared HW, but so what? You haven't mentioned him at all today.

I seem to be forgotten about it? What about the rest? Opportunistic mudslinging.


Am I sensing scummy shove the blame, ignore the shame here?

[Conqueror]

More scum than mafia.

1) I never said "Nope PX isn't scum" and changed my vote. So your accusation is false. (word twisting ho!)

You called PX "bad" multiple times throughout the day. I took this to mean that you were fine with both the PX and huhwhat wagons. In hindsight, reads like soft bussing while you were pushing on huhwhat. Here, I'll let you eat your own words.

The list
Looking bad:  PX, Huh what
Suspicious: Pesco, Shadoweh, Zakeri(Dan), Affinity, Bardiche, BT, Dormio, Conq, Rawr
Possible Town: ?

Reasoning:
- HW, already explained above.
- PX,  D1 doesn't explain or answers Pesco's posts
- PX, D1 no effort, no cases, nothing like HW opportunistic behaviour.
- PX,  why does he escapes from Dormio wagon to overkill-lynch Serela wagon. The wagon was already lynched. Why the fuck do you switch?

@ PX >> HI where did you got that awesome post from? (Note: major sarcasm). D1 you're show was terrible

This later morphs into this beauty.

Wow, nobody is posting opinions on PX's claim any more, while plenty of members are reading this.

Never mind Helepolis never gave an actual opinion on the claim, only stating the obvious.

PX >> This has been said million times but I am sharing the same opinion. He has been very decisiveness end of D1 and asked other people who to vote. Though for me, this isn't instantly scummy. We have seen many decisiveness people in D1. Derp Town who is undecided could be as well in the same situation. It proves nothing. Him being pushed around solely on this seems opportunistic and blinding town. He claims tracker and seems to have tracked BT with no results.

But BT's post makes some interesting comments on PX/HW. There seem to be indeed a subtle push to both of them, however, somehow I feel the HW push was weaker. Even with my mad-tunnelling on him, people were piling on PX.

Oh now, PX has a decisive end of D1, but it isn't instantly scummy, and he could be derp town, so it proves nothing. If that's the case then why the fuck were you attacking him earlier? The pile on him is opportunistic; the hw push was weaker...is this a comment implying hw is scum because the px wagon was stronger?
But it's okay because you don't end up voting either of them.

2) I had reasons to doubt Rawr vs PX and stated them clearly and obvious. Answered Pesco clearly as well. (word twisting ho #2)

Quoting all Helepolis says about rawr.

##Vote DrRawr
I care.

This is your Day 2 effort in 2 lines.

Continuing to drink my milk and form my post.

DrRawr >> Has been only riding wagons since D1. But D1 he has been cute-voting/complaining against Shadoweh. I first thought Shadoweh's responses to Rawr were out of place. Maybe because she was newbie-picking, maybe because Pesco also wondering the poking on Rawr. Conq's #532 at the end is exactly same question. Later on again in #540. What Rawr did was nothing different from PX.

D2 Rawr sounds like to me a puppet. Especially his last posts major concern me, as if he got instructed to make a comment on my "lists" and how Bardiche is also "mirroring" it. End D2 Rawr != Begin D2 Rawr nor D1 Rawr. His attack on me was very strange and sounded commanded. The initial reaction vote was indeed OMGUS, but now I am GUTS! =D and more convinced it is a valid vote for me. Maybe scum is hoping people to ignore Rawr because he is a newbie for doing this. Well I am not, and seems I am not the only one.


Vote >> I am keeping my vote on Rawr. 
Puppet Rawr is being kept out of the wind. He isn't going to get lynched, that is fore sure. NK? I doubt it. If he is indeed a Newbie-Town, then I'll echo Bardiche' own words said: "Scum have better targets to shoot at". And possibly wouldn't shoot him yet.
 
Though Shadoweh, I don't think he is going to be lynched tonight or shot. Though if he does, then his flip will tell a lot of people more.

Your case on rawr is that rawr is a puppet. And gut!

2) I had reasons to doubt Rawr vs PX and stated them clearly and obvious. Answered Pesco clearly as well. (word twisting ho #2)

What Rawr did was nothing different from PX.

Ho ho ho.

3) You kept Rawr + BT as suspects (unreasoned). Rawr flipped Town Pesco asked you the same about BT. I questioned you about this, so did Pesco. Yet you came with strange - answers - on these questions

Bullshit, you even linked to my reasoning when you were making your scumcase on rawr. BT was never unreasoned either --> more proof you're not reading.

Your defence of how you didn't find PX scummy is blatant trying to slip away from focus and shove it on me. Bardiche had suspected you with GUT. Now that I backread on how you tried hard to sway people away from PX. You kept on asking PX questions (Flavour?). Further more, I actually noticed you jumped into "Guys-wait-PX-isn't-bad" gear the moment and started questioning 'balance' and 'roles' and other things and some more defence of PX.

I didn't find the cases on PX convincing. No, I didn't think he was that scummy. I had doubts with his claim, but I went to night thinking he was probably town. I was wrong. You, on the other hand, look like you tried to throw suspicion on him for wagon credit, before suddenly turning gears for no clear reason to ram a wagon through on rawr (why not huhwhat or px?) Bardiche's gut was wrong. I questioned PX because I was trying to figure how his claim made sense with what I knew about the setup.

tl;dr Helepolis has no case. Die scum.

[Conqueror]

For anyone who doubts Helepolis scum, I strongly recommend that you actually read what Helepolis is saying and the complete bull he's spouting.

[Shadoweh]

I'm filled with doubt! ^_^/
Conq, let's say PX/Helepolis. Who would you place as a third and why?

[Shadoweh]

I'm also extremely curious about our conversations over PX's claim. You doubted it and cited balance, especially considering Bardiche's roleclaim. I know why I doubted it. I'm curious what your doubts were because you never reached that conclusion I was waiting for.

[Conqueror]

@Conq:
Yes to the first question, at least for PX.  In general I thought that, in absence of a counterclaim from BT or someone else, the pros of leaving a potential town tracker alive were better than the possibility of PX flipping scum, and that PX's results would give us the required info to make a judgement on his alignment.

Ahahaha. Good, good, now the question is, why the qualification "at least for PX"? No attempt to make sense of his claim on the day he claimed, to determine whether or not he could be scum fakeclaiming? A convenient excuse since it's possible you were a PX buddy trying to let him live just "one more day." In any case, I'm holding this statement to your face so you can backtrack on it to your leisure.

Not wanting to make a back and forth on D1 issues, so I'll leave it at that.  Irrelevant questioning, I felt, happened most on Dormio and Serela ED1 (e.g here and here), and others along the lines of "What do you think of BT, X", "Dormio, what are your non-BT reads?", but it's a rather stupid thing to argue about.

Granted, I did ask some relatively irrelevant questions (I like being able to banter in thread; the atmosphere is more relaxing than me). But to characterize the entirety of my content as irrelevant questioning is just wrong. You disagree?

Your case on BT, however, was not valid at all beyond the "tunnel-vision beyond the span of two days is scummy" point.  Rereading it, your case started with the questionable 'axiom' that what BT was saying was reportery and null, which people such as me and Bard disagreed with.  BT taking issue with this 'axiom' is a valid point, and answering it back with "yeah, so what?" here avoids the main point.   The fact that you reread him only to discard your entire tome of words on him into a sealed box named 'tunnel-town' is pretty much what I think is ineffectual about your scumhunting.  Why is his tunneling on Dormio suddenly town?  Why are you suddenly making note of his town reads even though you never acknowledged them D2?  Such an explanation draws a huge blank over your D2, to think that your main case in D2 could be averted with a single reread.

I thought that BT's case on Dormio is a bad case (in terms of I think Dormio is town and BT is pushing at irrelevant points), and I stand by that. The question is whether it is scum!bad or town!bad. What changed between yesterday and today is that PX ended up flipping scum overnight, so I had to reread the game with this in mind. I find BT's position on PX throughout the game more honest and believable than that of people like you or Helepolis, since I also thought that PX was town. What have you learned from the flip, Affinity? Have you learned anything or was it all known to you beforehand? To paint my position on BT as "discarding my entire D2 for no reason" is completely disingenuous, and I think you know this.

Not much to say against these points given that I answered most of them already at some point.  I take particular issue with that 'cheerleading for Dormio' point given that I was actively questioning his sudden defensiveness regarding points like 'vote-parking on Conq', which he accepted on D1 without issue but attacked BT for in D2.

Remind me to get to this later.

I might as well vote Shadoweh for being strange, dark, beautiful and scary.

Shadoweh's not very scary tbh

[Shadoweh]

Triple posting, town, deal with it (You've all been pretending I'm already dead anyways. :< )
The above is not a request for you to roleclaim. Even if it has to do with your claim I suggest you make something convincing up.

You're only saying I'm not scary because I can't threaten to shoot you anymore. >:< Shadoweh is TUFF.

[Conqueror]

Shadoweh, I'm considering claiming after I get through the rest of these posts (since scum probably have a roleblocker and I've been softclaiming anyway), since I'm going to be on a tight time schedule tomorrow and I don't know how much time I'll have to post. Then maybe things will be more clear.

[Shadoweh]

If you must. If you do decide to, make it as thurough as possible and include what you consider irregularities so I can judge how shootable you are.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I seem to be forgotten about it? What about the rest? Opportunistic mudslinging.

I'm busy right now, but I want to highlight this.
I'll get around to responding to the rest of this later.

My response.

[Conqueror]

Pesco, it's nice to know that everyone is scum, but you only have one vote. Who's the scummiest?

BT, lemme outline your post for you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
-Dormio is scum for (a bunch of reasons)
-Remaining non-town reads are Affinity-Hele-Conq
-Affinity and Conq aren't scum together. Neither are Helepolis and Conq
-Therefore vote Conq

A question: have you even read Helepolis or Affinity? If I get lynched and you go "herp derp I was wrong about Conq IT JUST FIT SO WELL Now back to Dormio scum!" I swear I will vig you from behind the grave.

Tell me why my late D2 reeks of scum. I'm stupid town, I need it spelt out in front of me. Because if you're town you're going to need more than that after I flip.

@huhwhat - You don't think Hele's content is awful and scummy? To be fair, I wasn't paying much attention to him on D2, because I had a gut possible scum read on you, sorry. But in light of the PX flip and Hele's approach to today, I think he's a good candidate for scum. Plus remember that this is Trickysticks' slot.

I'm not sure where the whole "slamming BT while clearing PX" thing is coming from. Like I said before, I thought PX was softcrumbing a cop result, and my scumread on BT and BT's play led me to think he was as possible godfather, which is why most people were ignoring him. Then when PX claimed tracker BT wasn't cleared in any sense. I had a non!scum read on PX throughout this.