Path of Radiance Mafia -Game Over-

[Bardiche]

And, huh, reading ActionDan reveals he doesn't move his vote off of Serela still and we're 24 hours in. So consider this a subscription to the ActionDan newsletter on who is scum. You say you're relying on acute gut more than logic reasoning, is your gut telling you Serela is the scummiest person around? And if not Serela, then who?

[Kitten4u]

Voting:
PX (1): Affinity
Huh What (3): Bardiche, Conq, Pesco
Serela (1): ActionDan
Conqueror (1): Dormio
ActionDan (5): Huh What, PX, Shadoweh, Serela, Trickysticks  (L-2)
Dormio (2): BT, nurse rawr

Not Voting: Nobody

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

ActionDan is at L-2!

Deadline for day 1 is ~47 hours. (watch timer here)

[Serela]

And, huh, reading ActionDan reveals he doesn't move his vote off of Serela still and we're 24 hours in.

does this sufficiently explain your question of why I'm voting him for still voting me

The rest of the answer is that his posts don't contain any scumhunting which is horribad.

[Bardiche]

That does sufficiently answer me and sate any concerns I have. Consider my subscription cancelled. :V

[Affinity]

Though his answers seem to be modified echoes of popular sentiment, PX sufficiently answers my doubts for now, so...

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio

Trickysticks' post is quite average for a reportery one; though as people have raised, some town reads seem quite arbitrary; nevertheless, it articulates who he wants to vote for today, so I'm willing to overlook him for now.

I have been giving ActionDan the benefit of the doubt, but his failure in allaying the doubts of town with his last post is pretty appalling.  Considering that he's the only one without a strong vote so far, any day 1 race between him and anyone else must necessarily be lost by him if he keeps this up.  Consider my vote to be on him for now; I just have the jitters regarding putting him on L-1 with so much time left in the day.  I'll put my vote on Dormio instead, for still putting stock into Conq's Dormio vote which was changed 24 hours ago and ignoring the calls for him to be more current.  His ActionDan suspicion thing seems to be an afterthought considering that he put my 'point' out of context, so effectively, his vote on Conq has been one gigantic vote-park in my eyes, which is pretty bad.

From what I see, Bardiche seems to be living in the past, sprouting insightful questions about things that have long worn out our interest.  He needs to come back to the current questions regarding Dormio and Dan instead of scratching his head over something that has been long past.

[Shadoweh]

Let's not get into 'This person MUST be lynched' territory yet.

PX: Anyone that's been talked about in the early game and noted as a possible lynch train is a hot topic. In particular, if you wanted to skim a whole bunch, those are the three targets that make the most sense. His reasoning for fencesitting not having an opinion on you is you haven't done enough.

Bardiche: Would you prefer I spend hours on a post and not tell you how I feel? Because I can do that too, not giving any opinions is lazy easy mode. From your post, you're effectively saying huh what and Conqueror are the only ones that need to be talked about. I feel everyone should be a suspect and considered at all times.

I dunno how I feel about Tricksy to be honest. Self-depreciation is more scummy then town. Would probably lynch of a hoarde of votes came out of nowhere.

[Conqueror]

I'll make some more detailed posts in a few hours when I actually get to reread the thread but short story is that huhwhat is back to a null read and I'll probably switch my vote when I get back (to who I haven't yet decided). Dormio I'll respond to but it looks like he's just being lazy. ActionDan hasn't done anything with his vote/read on Serela but I don't think it's particularly scummy of him unless he decides to keep this up for the rest of the day.

Trickysticks, why do you think rawr is scum? Why Dan over rawr?

I want BT to expand on his Dormio case because I can't parse it. Dormio is scummy because he's trying to pursue people who aren't answering his questions?

[Conqueror]

Ah, I remember something I wanted to say! Bardiche, what do you think of huhwhat in light of his new vote on ActionDan? I agree the vote on me was crap but he's said so himself and moved away since then so I'm wondering how that factors into your read on him.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

nnn

...why does Bard still care about my Conq case when I openly gave up on it because it was based on a mistake? I'm not going to keep trying to compound on a point that didn't exist after I realize I was wrong. Conq is null now, possibly leaning town based on the way he reacted when I argued with him.

I'm starting to question my Dan read. The way we went from 4 votes on me + a few non-voters looking at me to 5 votes on Dan + a few non-voters looking at him over the span of less than 24 hours is disconcerting. Given that all the players at the end of the wagon have been the players who were "late" today, I worry the scenario was being taken advantage of.

I think his reaction to the votes on him leans more on the side of "silly townie". I would have expected a scum!Dan to panic and jump on my wagon, or at the very least ditch the Serela vote and vote on what he thought was a stronger case to keep people away. He should definitely comment on whether or not he thinks Serela's latest content is scummy, though.

I will expand on this and make a response to some of the questions people have asked me tomorrow (or possibly a few hours if I can magically feel less exhausted by staying awake). I'm not in the state of mind to play mafia or actually hunt scum beyond a short post explaining my feelings right now, and I haven't actually read all of the posts jumping on Dan beyond a skim. I just wanted to Get This Post Out Here (hourai why did you ignore my pm qq) because the Dan wagon has been growing at a rapid rate.

Also, when I return, it'd be nice to hear what Shadoweh thinks about the Dan wagon's speed, since I seem to remember her being wary about faster wagons in previous games.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

PS:

We're already posting Walls of Opinions and Lists of Towniness? I can't say I'm fond of those on Day1, since a Wall of Neutral tends to be a long read with no real conclusions. I urge anyone to omit any mention of "neutral" feelings on someone unless it is important you make it clear. Make your posts concise and talk about people who need to be talked about; saving everyone some reading time will make posting that much more fun!

^5 even though you think I'm scum. I'm not the most eligible to bitch about D1 walls at all, but I agree that people need to stop it with the posts full of reads that are entirely irrelevant.
Ironically, I'm probably adding to noise by quoting that, but it's something that needs to be seconded.

[ActionDan]

@mod I'm replacing out. I can't really deal with a parent that's always on my ass. (The 2nd I try to get on here, I get scolded.. brutally edit: yupppppp)

So I had a hunch, and the more I think about it, the more I think I'm right.
After a 10 min-reread,

#1) I think Shadoweh is scum.
#2) if so Serela is likely her partner. 

The posts leading up to (and beyond) Shadoweh's vote on me just don't add up.    At this point there has since been no real glances thrown my way and Shadoweh says she isn't feeling it from the posters at the time, which includes me.  K fine.  After a few votes are tossed my way and after I ask Shadoweh directly to switch to Serela, Shadoweh is still Ok with her Dr. Rawr vote.  Alright, fine.  But here, the vote comes from PoE + an accusation that me taking it easy and not providing enough opinions for Shadoweh's gourmet tastes grants a vig the right to shoot me point blank.  Even crazy people like HW toss me some kind derpy explaination for scum motivation for my posts. 

The followup doesn't jibe

..Why you gotta make me feel bad for voting you? -.- I'm not going to unvote you just because of that. I-I'm not! But you should be cheerful anyways. If you are town then the scum will make themselves clear to my elegant eyes soon enough.

   

With as little as you've presented to back yourself up, why are you not addressing me like so, "Well, even so Dan! I still think A) + B) +C) make you scum!" instead of "well, if you are town, I guess I should look D2 for scum then!"

Unless there is some obvious unspoken reason I'm missing here, I don't see Shadoweh as town. 

The connections to Serela was the 'hunch' I was going on.  Shadoweh thought the scum was in the lurkers but wouldn't immediatly comment on Serela until Shadoweh voted me by putting Serela in the "would lynch" PoE null pile.  Even after Serela posted voting me, Shadoweh didn't give a read, but a little question. 

The other connection came from Serela's side when he said the only "scumhunting I did was on Shadoweh" yet said I had "a chance" to vote Hw which is reconizing that I actually contributed dare I say it, "scumhunting."  I read this as confirmation bias that Shadoweh is scum.  The answer to Shadoweh looks kinda playful. 

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

##Unvote
Page 5 (30ppp) re-read confirms that I don't like this Dan wagon at all right now. PX is the only guy I feel comfortable with, and Serela and Shadoweh seem to have especially tacked-on votes.

##Vote Serela for not scumhunting.
I read his post and I see him focusing on "HOT TOPICS" and saying he wants to have an opinion on them, but there's no research of his own. The lack of attention payed toward the non-targets make me think Serela is scum who just wanted to talk about the polarizing figures so he could have an opinion then call it a day. It's interesting that Serela calls Dan out on not scumhunting, since at the time, Dan actually had more unique points to his name than Serela does right now.

Also, L-1 isn't something to be afraid of unless you don't want to be held responsible for it. Trickysticks has played Mafia before and DrRawr has lurked past games. The newbie point looks like paranoia.

Other people of note:
- As usual, Shadoweh wins the "person who I feel like I should be voting but lack anything solid against" award. Has 5 people she'd lynch but her most solid case was a "feeling" about somebody who was a growing wagon, which is the weakest vote on Dan right now. I would be willing to lynch her for not having any strong opinions. For a second time, I'm wondering if Pesco thinks she's scummy for reasons that aren't policy.
- Trickysticks is "suspicious" because he keeps waffling and talking about how bad he is, which makes me think there's some Truth to the matter. If I can make a case on somebody by parroting their own points against themself, and it would be fairly solid if I combined it with a vote, then there's a problem. Tricky, if you're town, then you could definitely use some self-confidence.

huhwhat, your comment on ActionDan exerting 'action at a distance' regarding his catfight on Conq seems like a silly attempt to fluff up your case, given that he gave the reason why your premises on Conq were flawed before Conq did.  How was it an attempt to 'spur you on' in the argument?  I would like greater explanation on this; after all, my read of you being somewhat town hinges on your case on Dan, and your case being poisoned like that doesn't seem very nice.

I think he should have let Conq fight his own battles. Showing support for the people attacking me but saying the scum haven't arrived yet and not bothering to vote me looks like he was taking pot-shots at a town read and trying to cheer on what he thought was a mislynch.
In hindsight the reason I felt like I was being "egged on" during the slapfight is probably just because I was slightly neurotic at the time and was being overreactive to everybody attacking me. :/ I'll admit that was pretty silly, though I still think the rest of my Dan case was fine at the time I voted him.

Cut: Dan I'm sorry that you think I'm crazy :< I just apparently haven't learned to not post in Mafia when my sanity is being affected by outside issues, and it was making me unstable. I think I'm over it right now.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I like Dan's point about Shadoweh expecting him to flip town. I never actually made that connection when reading her post.

I'm not sure about her and Serela as buddies since neither have flipped yet, but I'd lynch either one individually.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Everyone shuts up when I feel like talking, apparently. I guess it's better than being cut 5 times.

Dan, the mod hasn't actually posted that you're /out yet. If you're still here, then what do you think about Serela individually?

[Shadoweh]

More like Shadoweh is weak to cute things and it hurts to think I might be making a bad situation worse like.. that. Oh come on. :<
Actually Serela's immediate jump on your wagon was horrible and it makes me want to wagon him instead. Does that make me a hypocrite? Do you consider myself and Serela to be two of the 'later people' huh what? If you don't your statement makes no sense compared to thinking that the original votes are okay.

Also cases are for the transient people. I don't need more then 'I think you're creepy in a scummy way' to vote you. I didn't really read the thread in detail before everyone posted. It was late and words were making my head spin. Posts like yours and Serela's were the ones I felt were being lost in the immediate whirlwind of posting insanity. Your later posts contain things that make me question my resolve to have you shot mercilessly. Don't call me scummy for realizing your alignment might be better then I thought.

Now to make huh what doubt himself by sheeping to him.
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Later votes on the wagon, or later votes in the day so far?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Eh, I'll just answer both.

Wagon Positioning: You're mid-late and the person who solidified Dan as a D1 wagon. Tricky and Serela are on later positions. I'm early, and PX is brotown.
Day Positioning: I consider you, Serela, BT, and Tricky to have voted "late" because you never got involved in the early discussion. This isn't scummy, but also makes it easier for people to capitalize on silly mistakes from hyper townies without drawing attention, which fits with what I was saying

[Shadoweh]

Amusing because it fits with exactly what I was saying too. So what do you think of Tricksy and BT then? Even if Serela and I are partners 4 lyfe we'd still have a third accomplice to murder.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Tricksy I already gave an opinion on, but I don't think you, Serela and Tricksy are all scum together.  I dislike trying to guess scumteams on D1 for any reason other than amusement. The only reason I mentioned you and Serela as buddies was because Dan did and I was responding to him. There's presumably at least one scum between you three, though.

BT's content is reasonable and I don't see reason to hang him. He needs to either second-guess himself less or cut out the :words: he's not sure on, but he doesn't have the weird, scummy self-loathing Tricksy has going on.

Unrelated, but Conq became unmemorable now that he doesn't have people dragging him into arguments. Do I need to post a garbage case on him again?

[Shadoweh]

Tricksy I already gave an opinion on, but I don't think you, Serela and Tricksy are all scum together.  I dislike trying to guess scumteams on D1 for any reason other than amusement. The only reason I mentioned you and Serela as buddies was because Dan did and I was responding to him. There's presumably at least one scum between you three, though.

That's completely arbitrary. Seriously why is there presumably at least one scum between us besides because it's three votes in a row?

[Pesco]

That said, my reasonings for Actiondan are not the same for Shadoweh. Shadoweh seems more like she doesn't want to be part of the game right now and just sit back on people who haven't posted. ActionDan shows more scummy behavior by actively going for Serela, who has yet to post at all. He even goes to ask Shadoweh to go vote Serela for reasons unknown. His reasons for voting you are waffly as well.

This thing about reactive/proactive feels off to me. I think it makes PX's vote look worse.

It's possible to want to lynch somebody, but for different reasons than the other people voting them.
I thought Dormio's initial "serious" post didn't look like a townie way of going about his opinions on Shadoweh/Conq. I explained this here and here.

The problem is that your reasons to lynch ScumDormio were not the best available to you. Point 3 in #79 would have made your vote believable as if you're down to lynch nailed scum. But by promoting point 2 and 4 as prime indicators of scum, I don't think we can get a clear read on your standards for lynchworthy scumminess is. It doesn't seem right that your scumhunting is so full of holes.

Looking at the people who did the arguing, why do you dismiss the idea of a townie slapfight?

Because I think they are competent players who can grasp the concept of abusing meta-tells. But you tell me, if you're sure of them being silly townies making noise, why aren't you bringing out a case on scum and getting said scum lynched?

##Unvote
##Vote: Action Dan
....
Would lynch: Serela, Rawr, Pesco
Would vig without a claim: Action Dan

Given that you don't have a vig, what is the difference between these 2 groups and why are all the people who were active first in the thread more likely to be town to you? Or if you "I don't explain my town reads", why are all the latecomers the only ones that are scum?

Okay so now that I know there isn't like a billion votes on ActionDan I'm fine with going
##Unvote ##Vote ActionDan

I expected this to get explained in your following post. It wasn't. Therefore you suck and are likely scum.

..Why you gotta make me feel bad for voting you? -.- I'm not going to unvote you just because of that. I-I'm not! But you should be cheerful anyways. If you are town then the scum will make themselves clear to my elegant eyes soon enough.

"Hay guize Imma just votepark bcuz I dun scumhunt D1"

ActionDan : You didn't seem to have a good reason for voting Serela, and as a result seem scummy from my (untrained) eyes. I also agree with points made by others. You had a chance to go somewhere with huhwhat, then decided "Nope" and voted Serela. Lynch in the face, please.
...
nurse rawr : Seems to be stumbling around, voting for Shadoweh purely because Shadow voted for em, and not understanding anything. That's not really a scum-tell, but I have a feeling they are, indeed, scum.
...
tl;dr: Oh dear I stink at this uh most of you seem fine let's lynch Dan or rawr.
...
However, since I think Dan would indeed make the best lynch...

##Vote ActionDan

What are you agreeing with and why is it agreeable? I don't like how you say Dan is the best lynch as opposed to him being scum and therefore a right lynch.

Now to make huh what doubt himself by sheeping to him.
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

"Hay guize I cant scumhunt so Imma just vote bcuz is kewl"
##Unvote
##Vote Shadoweh

Dan's posts have been improving bar the lack of a solid vote. I don't feel him as today's lynch any more. Shadoweh's vote on and off Dan are completely opportunistic.

Amusing because it fits with exactly what I was saying too. So what do you think of Tricksy and BT then? Even if Serela and I are partners 4 lyfe we'd still have a third accomplice to murder.

Claimed scum. Lynch pls.

[Shadoweh]

You're cute. I'm going to enjoy nightkilling you tonight.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

On D2, people are naturally going to analyze the flipped town wagon for scum.
Scum sending all three of their men to vote somebody in a row, especially as votes #3 - #5 on the wagon, highly increases the chance their target will get mislynched and scum will be the target of wagon analysis the next day. It also ties them together by way of opinion, which could be fatal if a townie figures out that the wagon was a scum push.
Since scum doesn't want attention, it's just not something that benifits them.

You could argue they'd do it to sacrifice one scum but let the others get a free pass for the rest of the game, but D1 wagon analysis becomes less relevant as there's more to work with, and by the time D4 or so rolls around town will be more dessperate and not considering people town for this since their immediate options are exhausted. Is it impossible there's a Serela/Shadoweh/Tricksy scumteam? No, but it's not something I think is worth considering right now.

It's not completely arbitrary at all and I get the impression you're just arguing for the sake of argument. :/ I've never once seen scum vote together on D1 from my limited experience, although if anybody has notable counterexamples that I'm willing to acknowledge them.

Pesco cut: I thought my Dormio case was fair by ED1 standards. At this point there's not much for me to say about it beyond "If everybody thinks it was that bad, I guess I was just being silly".
Where do your priorities stand in regards to me - Tricksy - Serela?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Also, Pesco.

Dan's posts have been improving bar the lack of a solid vote. I don't feel him as today's lynch any more. Shadoweh's vote on and off Dan are completely opportunistic.

When were you feeling Dan as today's lynch? Last I checked you've been pushing me this entire time. You did acknowledge Dan as scummy, but never actually went out of your way to lynch him today.

[Conqueror]

@huhwhat I've been busy with work so I haven't gotten around to my reread yet. I still intend to post before I go to sleep.
I will say that after the stuff you've put out recently you're not a scumread for me anymore so
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
Doesn't even look like she's trying.

When I get back I'm going to talk more about: Bardiche, Tricky, Dormio, Shadoweh at least

[Shadoweh]

To answer your question more seriously, though it's hard to find it because of the annoying quotebox wall you're doing:

Because I think they are competent players who can grasp the concept of abusing meta-tells. But you tell me, if you're sure of them being silly townies making noise, why aren't you bringing out a case on scum and getting said scum lynched?

You're still talking about Conqueror, Dormio, huh what and PX right? At least half of those people you know wouldn't bother to abuse meta-tells and the other half don't really have meta-scum tells to me so much as attitudes that feel townie or scummy. The second line is a meaningless accusation holding me responsible for not elegantly first-post-mind-haxing the entire scum team [this game]. It's a work in progress.

Given that you don't have a vig, what is the difference between these 2 groups and why are all the people who were active first in the thread more likely to be town to you? Or if you "I don't explain my town reads", why are all the latecomers the only ones that are scum?

The difference between them, as you would notice if you were astute, was related to which one of them I was voting. I did explain all my townreads, but if you'd read the paragraphs before the tl;dr maybe you'd know that.

Dear Conq: Reread sooner, then actually vote scum. We can't be townie BFF's this way. Signed, Shadoweh.

[Conqueror]

Well Shadoweh, if you stopped being cheeky and asking meaningless questions about hypothetical scumbuddies maybe it would be easier to read you.

But why a vote on Serela? I don't see anything extraordinary coming from Serela (to be perfectly I haven't bothered trying to get a read on him because I'm pretty sure I can't at this stage) so what makes you vote him this game when for example last game you were pretty adamant against voting him?

This question can go to huhwhat as well because using "not scumhunting" as criteria for Serela doesn't really work from past examples.

[Conqueror]

Okay nvm huhwhat are you actually pushing the idea that there must be scum in persons A B and C or am I just skimming this incorrectly?

[Shadoweh]

How is an unvote ever opportunistic, anyways? Unless Dan is my partner (lol) I am far too lazy as scum to care if I keep voting him to infinity and beyond. I'm pretty sure my vote onto him wasn't, it didn't look like he'd have that much attention and then suddenly two of the people I'd said we should be waiting for turn him into a five vote wagon. Dan's AtE made me feel like I would be unvoting him because I felt sorry for him instead of because of his alignment, it wasn't until his second post I felt the town parts were town enough and the AtE was unrelated depression. It's not like it would be the first time he was unrelatedly forced to replace out and happened to be scum at the same time.

That came out more like a rant then I meant it to. In short Dan is town enough that quickwagons are strange.

Conq: Because last game I thought he was town? This might surprise you but sometimes people get different alignments in different games. Why does he randomly want to reread you for no discernable reason?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

This question can go to huhwhat as well because using "not scumhunting" as criteria for Serela doesn't really work from past examples.

Serela has shown he can scumhunt even though he's not exactly amazing at it. What he posted this game just looks like he's effortlessly talking about the people everyone else is talking about to fill his "content criteria" and not get lynched. Doesn't look good considering that he was attacking Dan for not scumhunting.

Conq cut: The line itself was me being silly and posting hyperbole, but I do genuinely think the people who jumped Dan after PX are worth looking into right now, hence why I'm voting Serela.