Labyrinth of Touhou 4F

[Bananamatic]

Waiting for 100m exp, then I'm spending :V
So far somewhere at 44m. Not too bad. Hopefully I'll get the 4 more Gurthangs.

[Pesco]

I stuck all the people needing BP in the back for the whole way of Team (9). Come the events, they still had 0 BP and I ended up hacking in the required amounts.

[Ghaleon]

Waiting for 100m exp, then I'm spending :V
So far somewhere at 44m. Not too bad. Hopefully I'll get the 4 more Gurthangs.

At this point I kinda suggest 30f trash. 27F is still probably faster, but the leet drops from 30f are sweet. 18f v3 in particular is uber, especially considering how damn easy that one is. Yuka also drops a super mega sweet tank (or was it magic tank only?) item.

[Serela]

I thought about it a little. Why... a team made as completely from support characters as possible. How possible would it be to use? I wonder how much a lack of Meiling/Reimu will affect the ability to stall? It still has sufficient stalling characters, albeit not ideal... hmm. Remilia's damage shall likely be killed by a need to use DEF-levelups for 1st-Slot tanking, as she's by far the most ideal for the role in this team, so that leaves damage-dealing to rather dubious characters. Cirno's disabling abilities for randoms would be very important to buy time for the non-ideal attackers to do their thing.

1.Yukari
2.Remi
3.Sakuya
4.Keine
5.Cirno
6.Sanae
7.Rumia
8.Aya
9.Iku
10.Komachi
11.Minoriko
12.Eirin

Yet, I'm still not satisfied, with Komachi and Minoriko still in the team... but maybe I shouldn't be too cruel. A great deal of teamwork would be critical to success; Team Supportive would be an accurate name, as absolutely no one is a "More Damage" character; they all have other purposes to serve for helping the other members succeed. Although, you'd have to pick a few (or maybe a lot) to raise for damage that you wouldn't normally. ATK-based Sakuya and Komachi, perhaps?

I'll likely never try this team, since my current 3rd run (14F and going) shall likely be my last, or at least for a long time, and I'm hoping to finally go all the way to 30F and maybe even do some of it's bosses. First run ended after beating final boss, second run ended with tapering interest on exploring 27F. Hmm. I think I can make an ideal party this time, with my experience; I don't believe I'll have interest left for challenge runs like this team... this game has enough difficulty regardless :P

[Parallaxal]

^ That team doesn't look half bad, to be honest. Speaking from experience, Iku easily turns non-attackers into attackers with Thundercloud Strickleback. My lvl 160 Rumia with a MAG buff does about 200,000 damage per shot on Yukari Version 2. That's about as much as unbuffed Nitori's Megawatt Linear Gun, and that thing's already quite a lolnuke.  Furthermore, I'm of the belief that ATK-based Komachi will become one of the most powerful SPI attackers in the game, as Scythe that Chooses the Dead has the same formula as Suika's Throwing Atlas, and Komachi has the same ATK growth as Suwako but with a much better leveling rate. If you can buff her attack quickly (with Iku *cough*), and boost her speed as well, you're looking at a potentially amazing single-target SPI nuker. I wouldn't bother with ATK-based Sakuya, as believe it or not, I've already tried that (a long time ago, back when I was foolish and naive...).

If I wasn't already busy with Team Unappreciated, I'd probably take Team Supportive out for a spin (currently almost done with version 2 bosses; just one left to go).

Edit: To give you an idea of just how powerful characters can be with Iku's buffs: at level 149, Orin just did 400,000+ damage with a single Blazing Wheel to the CLD form of the 18F Version 2 boss. And speaking of Blazing Wheel: it's really not bad in boss fights! Thanks to her great speed, its delay isn't bad at all, and its damage is amazing against bosses that aren't known for their impressive DEF/MND.

[Garlyle]

So, those of you who downloaded the english database should go check out the Graphics tab.

It's got a lot of little developper commentary bits and pieces on it, some of which are extremely amusing (Kaguya's MND-piercing spells were originally a mistake!) and/or interesting to consider.

[Parallaxal]

Team Unappreciated vs. Hibachi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6RCCZfZiw4

Very quick and simple fight, as it's just a raw damage race. Despite the short length of the fight, Wriggle's poison still did at least 110k damage. Only 6 of my characters could even survive Needle Parade at this level, so I had to win quickly, as Hibachi uses Needle Parade every 5th turn.

I'm also starting to become a believer in Orin's potential for boss fights. Blazing Wheel's delay is really not bad at all considering her excellent speed, and its power is perfectly servicable. She even has a passable non-elemental option for consistancy when the boss resists FIR, and I've done some mean numbers on stuff weak to SPI with Vengeful Cannibal Ghost. Plus, her MND is startlingly good! Suika gets a lot of praise for her unusually high MND for a non-mage character, but Orin's MND growth is just as high, except she levels way faster! Sure, Orin's HP isn't too great, but once you factor in her leveling speed, she can probably take magic attacks at least as well as Marisa and Kaguya can, if not better (and she'll still probably beat them in DEF too). And hey, for the main game, is the Lion King's Soul just tailor-made for her strengths or what?

[Bananamatic]

At this point I kinda suggest 30f trash. 27F is still probably faster, but the leet drops from 30f are sweet. 18f v3 in particular is uber, especially considering how damn easy that one is. Yuka also drops a super mega sweet tank (or was it magic tank only?) item.

Is it normal for 18F V3 to die somewhere in his 3rd form? :V

[trancehime]

Is it normal for 18F V3 to die somewhere in his 3rd form? :V

Pretty much, he is that easy. :S

[Bananamatic]

Pretty much, he is that easy. :S

okay
I have shiki and nitori
give me 2-3 more attackers

[trancehime]

okay
I have shiki and nitori
give me 2-3 more attackers

I just used anyone really :S

[Bananamatic]

Is Patchouli still good as a single target nuker at this point? Her, Flandre and Chen maybe?

[trancehime]

Is Patchouli still good as a single target nuker at this point? Her, Flandre and Chen maybe?

You can use both Flandre and Chen.

Patchouli I'm a little iffy on since though she and Chen have similar durability, Chen is about four times faster so :V

[Bananamatic]

Youmu? Then again, she drops just as fast as Patchy, just against different attacks :V
Would increasing her elemental affinities fix her? Unlike patchy, where low physical durability isn't fixable at all...

EDIT: Noticed the 16 Fusion Titanium Alloys. More items sold=more skill points

15 of them...4m skill exp. Not bad :V

EDIT EDIT: holy shit drop rates

One battle, Dewprism
Another battle, another Dewprism
Several battles later, another Dewprism
2 battles later, Byroad
Now, 2 Fusion Titanium Alloys in one battle :V

Should I also trade the Dewprisms in for skill points or keep them?

EDIT EDIT EDIT: The game clock is glitched. I've been gaining hours without playing that much at all.
When you leave the game in the background, the time runs several times faster for no reason.

[Serela]

Furthermore, I'm of the belief that ATK-based Komachi will become one of the most powerful SPI attackers in the game, as Scythe that Chooses the Dead has the same formula as Suika's Throwing Atlas, and Komachi has the same ATK growth as Suwako but with a much better leveling rate.

Dammit, you're right.

Ah... Ran and Yuyuko do too much damage for this team... bah, I can't think of anyone to replace Komachi with who isn't too good ("Too good" being Reimu/Meiling/Tenshi/Renko). Unless I introduced rules like "YOU GET RAN/YUYUKO BUT YOU CAN'T USE LEVELUPS ON MAG FOR THEM".
 
I suppose I could always make a team of glass cannons instead

[trancehime]

Youmu? Then again, she drops just as fast as Patchy, just against different attacks :V
Would increasing her elemental affinities fix her? Unlike patchy, where low physical durability isn't fixable at all...

EDIT EDIT EDIT: The game clock is glitched. I've been gaining hours without playing that much at all.
When you leave the game in the background, the time runs several times faster for no reason.

#1 - Elemental affinities are always good to raise, no matter how durable your characters are.

#2 - The game speed running faster when idle is a very much known issue.

[Bananamatic]

Yeah, but the point is, will be Youmu able to take spells or will she still drop just as fast as before?

Also what to do with the 17 Dewprisms...sell them all?

[Anima Zero]

Yeah, but the point is, will be Youmu able to take spells or will she still drop just as fast as before?

Also what to do with the 17 Dewprisms...sell them all?

My Yuugi has around 350-400 in all of her elemental affinities and some 15k MND or so.  She has no trouble taking a spell or two if the situation calls for it if I stick her in the 2nd or 3rd slot. Row based or non elemental magic attacks like Dual Colored Laser or Kaguya's Dragon's Necklace can still be a nasty blow for her, but she can still take a hit from either attack at full HP.

I'd reckon Youmu can function in the same manner.  I don't believe her MND is much different from Yuugi's, if any, so making sure her elemental affinities are around the 350-400 zone, she oughta be relatively safe if she needs to be brought out for a nuke on a magic spamming enemy.

And for those Dewprisms...yeah, sell them all for mega Skill Points.

As for me...Reimu lv505, Dual Hibachi V2 fight cleared.  I decided to take the easiest route for that one by swapping out Eiki and putting in Kaguya, spending a bunch of skill points to improve all of her offensive and defensive stats plus her elemental affinities, then buffing her in battle via Ran and bringing her out when Hibachi #1 has just taken a turn, Hourai Barrage, swap her out, rinse and repeat.  Remi and 18F did the usual tanking/character swapping duties, subbing in Yuugi for 18F on a few occasions where 18F's HP was low and Reimu couldn't get a turn in time.

Hibachi #1 falls, I start to pray I can knock out the other Hibachi before Dual Funeral Washing Machine, AKA I kill you all, gets used.  How I managed to see it not use that in the 2 turns it got before folding, I'm not sure.  I'll take it though.

So now...grind time to prepare for the final super boss.  I can safely handle pretty much every 30F fight without even needing defensive buffs or healing.  I also found out Kaguya works really nicely paired with my nukers with her Buddha's Stone Bowl, making most 30F fights last around a minute or two at most.  Alice V3 is the only one that usually takes longer because of that lovely Healing Doll and it's 10-11m healing spells.

Finally...Remilia with ATK lv500.  Yay.  Figured I could do something with that having ~118m Skill Points to spend after fixing up Kaguya's stats.  I still had tons left to fix up a few characters that were in dire need of skill points, mainly Marisa and Minoriko.

[Bananamatic]

I guess that a lv420 Reimu can do 30F, right? I'm a bit worried about the less SP gained...will the sold items somehow balance it out?

Also, I hope 80m skillpoints gives me a noticeable boost. Get affinities to 80 or so first I guess?

EDIT: Sweet, Megawatt does 2,7m and Last Judgment 2,3m. Chen V3. Survived her super fast crap, buffed and destroyed her in 4 hits.
Feels good man

EDIT EDIT: sweet jesus
SoC first attempt
physical vs reimu in the 3rd slot
guess the rest

[Bananamatic]

Awakened Exoskeleton GET and Serpent of Chaos down!

Funnily enough, having Chen as the dedicated switcher makes your damage output go wtf so much that he got off only one turn in his third phase...he used Destroy Magic though, so I had to make sure he wouldn't pull more shit :V

Reimu lv450something, V3 grinding is actually quite fun :V

I'll post the video if anyone is interested.

[The Greatest Dog]

Do it.

Actually, how does Chen survive much?

[Bananamatic]

here you go, double speed as long fights aren't fun to watch
Well...I've seen her survive a Needle Parade and a full combo from Serpent of Chaos. She can live through an attack or two...just don't count on her to tank. She's too fast to let her take hits anyways.

and is my Nitori overpowered or something? 3,4m Linear Gun vs SoC... :V

[Serela]

Reached 15F. Whee.

For that team I made a few posts back, it's been hard thinking of who would be worst (or rather, best  :V) for replacing Komachi. Ran and Yuyuko were the main considerations, and I decided Yuyuko is worse damage in the end. Her attacks are all 1 element and not all that strong (12 MAG on a terrible leveling rate), and her ability to use her attack that does fairly good damage is curbed by it's MASSIVE SP cost, even at the end of the non-plus game,  her low SP recovery, and her speed only rivaled in lowness by Patchouli (6 SPD on her leveling rate?)

So, in that setup I suppose I'll replace Komachi with Yuyuko. Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana will still be the strongest attack in this team, of course, but you won't get to use it much due to SPD and SP, and it's still kinda ehh compared to other attacking character's nukes

[Bananamatic]

Dual Hibachi V2 FFFFFFFFFF-
nothing like thinking you are beating them equally then having the second one wipe you out after 7m more damage

And again. It's fucking luck based when you can't see their HP.

And yet again. Used nothing but Hourai Barrage but the first one was still more than 5m off the first one.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Huh. I was dreading having to refight Tam's Foe after having had a lot of trouble with it in my first playthrough, but then I end up beating it on my first attempt right after finishing up the exploration of 7F. And that was even with me severely overestimating Reimu's and Yuugi's ability to not get instakilled by the first Flowing Hellfire. And speaking of 7F: applying a depth first search algorithm to my exploring of it made it go from really annoying to not that bad. Yay graph theory :V

Dual Hibachi V2 FFFFFFFFFF-
nothing like thinking you are beating them equally then having the second one wipe you out after 7m more damage

Looking in the database at how that battle works kind of makes me understand why you're having trouble with it.

Spoiler:

It would seem that after you kill one of them, the HP of the other is set to at least 10M.

[Bananamatic]

That is if the other one's HP wasn't too high.

Looks like it was and I got Djinn Storm'd.
Fun.

Finally, manipulated it so I had 6 turns before it would instakill me.

EDIT: Winner attempt at lv475 - I survived a grand total of 4 rounds :V
comparing it with this video, somebody has been neglecting their elemental affinities

oh well...back to grindan

[Serela]

I just realized something about composite attacks.

For some reason, I always thought it was like,

((Atk+Mag)/2) - ((Def/2+Mnd/2)/2)

In which it'd be like a regular attack factoring an average of both stats. But in actuality, it's like the damage of a physical attack COMBINED with the damage of a magical attack, not averaged together; so suddenly I see why Orin's Blazing Wheel can be so strong, and etc. Of course, these attacks suffer when used against a target with a significantly huge DEF or MND. But now I see they can be much better then a regular physical or magical attack. Interesting.

ofc this entire post is "durrrr I'm slow", but now I can see characters like Orin in a better light, and won't ignore composite attacks like 18Fs.

EDIT:There's a terribly small amount of people with composite attacks in the first place, most of which don't have exciting ATK/MAG; this means later on, DEF/MND absorbs too much of their damage potential, although an ATK/MAG buff would skyrocket their output. Reimu, Sakuya (PitifulMAG), Cirno(lul), Orin (Has potential), 18F (Oooh), and Kanako (Her other attacks are way better).

Orin and 18F are the only ones that really have damage potential in their composites, although Reimu/Sakuya would do a decent amount. Not that most people use an ATK Sakuya anyway. Or any Sakuya at all :V

[Parallaxal]

What about MAG-based Eirin? Better MAG growth than Yuyuko, Galaxy in a Pot has a decent formula for an average delay non-elemental spell, and Astronomical Entombing has a pretty good formula as well. Hey, if Iku can turn Mokou into a powerful nuker, she can do the same to Eirin.

The biggest problem with the team is probably that your best attackers seem to be concentrated on SPI and WND elements. Then again, I've never tried giving Cirno super-offensive buffs...hmmm...

(CLD is rather ignored compared to other elements, isn't it? You don't get a super-nuke for it until the Plus Disk with Kanako.)

[Bananamatic]

make your 20F/30F grinding much faster

03F45480
infinite TP for 18F
buff as much as you want
because no one likes to fucking return to gensokyo/warp back after every single battle

[Serela]

A buffed MAG-Eirin should turn out nicely. And it's simply not possible to take away EVERYONE who can attack well without giving you hax supporters like Renko, Meiling, Reimu. Then the question wouldn't be "can you win" but "how long will you have to stall" :V

And yeah, CLD/WND don't really have nukes until Kanako. CLD especially is rather ignored, as only Cirno/Eirin/Nitori have attacks of that element, Nitori being the only decent damaging one. EDIT:Oh yeah, Komachi too.

A buffed up Icicle Fall might deal nice damage, actually. It's a matter of the composites again; most of her mediocre ATK/MAG is soaked up by MND/DEF, but if you buff the damage would rise greatly. Cirno still wouldn't be an awesome attacker, but with the low delay and speed, plus chance of inflicting -50% SPD (most bosses are resistant, but not immune), it might be okay.

Buffed ATK Aya might be exciting, with her huge speed; once you build up her SP, at least. Her ATK is good, it's just that her formulas have horrible DEF-piercing. She'd be like Chen if you kept an ATK buff up, I think.

ATK-based Sakuya's Sculpture should deal a little more damage then Orin's Thousand Needle Hell. In that team at least, it'd be worth considering. Otherwise, I'd only consider it because she's just "Switch in, Lunar Dial, switch out", so she doesn't really need other stats.