Path of Radiance Mafia -Game Over-

[Shadoweh]

I-I'm only 17! Where are your morals?!

Question, what do you think the read on Dan was? Dan is here as Zakeri now. What other suspects do you have besides huh what?

[Bardiche]

Where was the Night Kill?

I foiled it.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

#163 Why do you question Dan suddenly what he thinks of Serela? Just because you dislike his wagon? Or was it because he was obviously being replaced and he had to post something "Townish" before he was gone.

Because he was pushing Serela as scum, but only with associative tells that weren't based on flips. I wanted to know if he had further reasoning at that point, since he had expressed conviction against Serela a lot before replacing out. There shouldn't even be anything wrong with asking another playing for opinions, and it's baffling to me that you're trying to turn this into a reason to attack me.

Aside from that, your case is all reporting what I've done and mudslinging, only it also looks like you're not even attempting to comprehend the posts I made to understand how I came to my conclusions. I don't have anything to respond to your claims that I wasn't scumhunting / my distrust of the Dan wagon wasn't justified / I had no reason to vote Serela / etc beyond "are you actually reading the damn thread?", which is pretty disappointing given that I should be the last person qualified to say that right now. If you take specific issues with what I've posted then you're not giving me much room to respond to you by just calling my content terrible without explaining why, which is a pretty terrible case, all things considered. I could take just about any person in the game and call all their actions "terrible" or "unjustified", but that doesn't mean it would actually be worth anything.

All things considered, you're not looking much stronger than Tricky right now. I second Shadoweh's requests for opinions on other players.

[Shadoweh]

God for twelve people you're all a quite bunch aren't you?
People I forgot were playing until I checked the front page: PX, Zakeri, Conq (haha this last one is a lie I didn't forget you you're just not posting scum)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I've been spending my day reading about romancing a fictional disabled woman with blue hair, which has caused me to postpone doing any extra re-reading or talking or anything of the sort. I have been around to answer questions, though.

In the mean time, could you make a tldr summary (perhaps with bulletpoints) of why rawr is scum, perhaps with an explanation of why you don't think he's just tunnelly / silly newbtown? I'm becoming a bit more interested in the case, because I looked at your recent interactions and I get the impression he was set on voting you for the start of the day, and it looks like a weird trap.

[Shadoweh]

Right now I'm watching a franchise-disabled hedgehog's friends get sucked into time rifts and die repeatedly while the player curses in the background, but I'll happily write something more detailed later.

In short form. Rawr has done nothing but post snippets from the posters around him. Note how he's continually ignored my simple request to go quote something I've said and give his own opinion on it, something he should be more then happy to do if he really believes I'm as bad as he's saying.. Also how he won't comment on his PX vote anymore. His case today can be summed up as 'Someone didn't die so you must be scum'. The case I gave him.

[Conqueror]

You're a cheeky one Shadoweh. For all the cries about content, you've haven't exactly been doing much.

The only reason I joined this current game on my time schedule is because we needed more players. I haven't posted because I'm not around. You probably know this, in fact. In any case, you know how easily I get riled up. If you're gonna call me scum you'd better bring your vote over because I ain't taking these snipes from you, "vig" or not.

I expect you to prove your vig shot sooner or later if you're not fakeclaiming scum.
(fyi I'm a bad shot and I will laugh at you in the postgame if you try to shoot me )

Anyway I'll read up before I sleep. I only posted this right now because I couldn't concentrate because that post pissed me off so much.

[PX]

I initially voted Serela for lack of scumhunting, especially for the post before my post. Which is the same as your reason for voting him, so I take it your grounds for lynching Serela could also be Policy Lynching when you made the vote?

Also, when I voted Dormio, I stated

Clarifying, I feel there is more chances of Dormio flipping scum than NeoSerela

so I didn't forget about my Serela stance completely :\

I did get off the Dan wagon after it lost steam, but you expect me to keep pressure up on someone who just replaced in and had yet to even post? Not that the case on ActionDan was about lack of scumhunting, which ActionDan did when he replaced out.

Also, I heard you liked dating cripples, you sick person

[PX]

Wait a minute, just read Pesco's post and realized: You're voting me for using your case to be convinced to vote NeoSerela over Dormio, when you asked me if I can be convinced to vote NeoSerela over Dormio. Wtf

##Vote: huhwhat

^ Probably gonna change after some more catching up

[Shadoweh]

Vig is a horrible fakeclaim. I have every intent to prove it when I'm ready. I'll keep your vague warning in mind while I'm axing you

I did bring my vote over earlier. I.. wouldn't call you someone who gets riled up easily. Anger is pro-town though so show me what you've got. (If the situations were reversed you would vote me for using AtE :V)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Right now I'm watching a franchise-disabled hedgehog's friends get sucked into time rifts and die repeatedly while the player curses in the background, but I'll happily write something more detailed later.

I was playing that during D1 so :T
Generations isn't that curse-worthy until you accidentally fall into the very first pit in the level by being an idiot and timing your homing attack wrong, which has happened to me on Modern Crisis City on at least five seperate occasions.

Also would you guys kindly stop misrepping me on the PX case? His end-of-day conduct is scummy because he didn't show us his work and the way he made his choice looks feigned as a result due to no real thought process. He would still be scummy if he had been voting Dormio at the end of the day (assuming Dormio flipped town, or Serela got lynched). Seriously ??? people.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Seriously, I do not recall stating that PX is scummy for listening to me and voting Serela at the end of the day even once. It's the way he went about making a decision which doesn't look townie to me.

[PX]

This is a carbon copy of the scum-indecision posts I made when choosing between town/town wagons in the first Moriya Shrine.

>_<

How the hell am I supposed to respond to this? I haven't seen that game, I never even heard of mafia when that game happened, and I can't even see the game in the archives.

I mentioned in #170 that PX's vote for Dan also looked bad.

Huh, how did I miss that? It was as simple as choosing which one was more likely to be scum: The one claiming to not partake in the discussion, or the one trying to look like he's in the discussion.

My case is for PX to defend himself against

I call bullshit, because how do I defend against this?

This looks like a horrible vote to put someone on L-1.

A Townie can't doubt his reads with an imposing deadline?

Edit: 3 cuts

[PX]

Out of all of PX's shortcomings which huhwhat and pesco have more or less said, I am the least happy with his consistent failure to justify a vote between two choices (such as Shadoweh and Dan, Serela and Dormio), and I would like an explanation on the later case as to how Dormio's accusation of Shadoweh being SK is worse than Serela going for the easy lynches.  Furthermore, the fact that he jumped on every significant wagon other than Shadoweh's through the sole means of parroting what is wrong with that person seems pretty bad and feels like coasting. 

Oh fucking come on

Am I supposed to just ignore the significant wagons for being mainstream and have a useless vote on a lurker at the end of the day? Also, it's very fucking hard to not "parrot" if 5 other people already voted the person. I'm really starting to like the "cases are scummy" route because if having a case makes everyone else who can't and follow yours scummy, then fuck cases. Also, pushing a claimed vig as an SK was something that happened from a previous game, where I was the vig being pushed as an SK by scum, so personal experience counted for the Dormio vote.

[Pesco]

Ayayayayayayayaya

Less Bunbunmaru-spam pls. Too much of 'This is what I think happened' instead of 'Why I think this is scummy'.

In the mean time, could you make a tumblr summary (perhaps with pictures) of why rawr is scum

Do this instead :V

How the hell am I supposed to respond to this? I haven't seen that game, I never even heard of mafia when that game happened, and I can't even see the game in the archives.

Huh, how did I miss that? It was as simple as choosing which one was more likely to be scum: The one claiming to not partake in the discussion, or the one trying to look like he's in the discussion.

I call bullshit, because how do I defend against this?

A Townie can't doubt his reads with an imposing deadline?

I was just a noobscum like you are now back then. Making the same plays and saying the same scummy things.

Dan was actively taking part in the discussion. Active posting that got people talking vs Shadoweh's hurrdurrlurkscum activity.

Refer to scumstrat.txt for how to defend yourself.

A townie can have their doubts after making it clear that their decision wasn't a snap one. We have to be able to see what caused the changes in reads and the weighing in of current information.

[Affinity]

Helepolis, even if your premises were true, why is huhwhat scummy for dropping a wagon he started (Dan) in favour of starting another wagon on a guy who flipped town (Serela), when the first wagon garnered a fair amount of attention?  Are you implying that Dan and huhwhat are somehow scum together?

PX, it's not so much the parroting that I'm concerned about, since, as you say, there can only be so many reasons.  What I'm concerned about are your jumps between wagons without explaining why the reasons for your new votes were any better than that of your old votes. Without this important link of putting common reasons into some sort of personal context or hierarchy, you seem as if you were throwing your weight around wherever the attention seemed to be yesterday.  The fact that none of your reasons were original makes you look worse due to this.

I noticed that I misrepped BT a bit in my previous post, since in this post he did elaborate on Dormio being bad for far more than just bad behaviour (I really never noticed this).  However, my main point about BT sitting on his Dormio vote and doing little else that is meaningful still stands, given that the above post has lost its validity with the passage of time and Dormio's case on huhwhat, which I feel that he has to at least comment on.

[WHMZakeri]

Can we at least give Scum the Chance to fakeclaim? It'd be much easier if we had more solid ways of telling when they're lying.

I liked Shadoweh much better back when she was still scumhunting. 498 in particular gives Shadoweh a bad impression in this debate. Starting a back and forth against another player, and then casting suspicion on them for only talking about the person they've been responding to is a very easy way to trick someone into looking like they aren't scumhunting. The original point (That Rawr forgot Shadoweh until Shadoweh retaliated for not remembering) Is of questionable validity as well (Which is to say I think it's a nulltell).

The point where HW was bringing up potential vig targets is interesting. It's a very good scumtactic because it's easy to disguise  (not the vig owner, and considered an acceptable train of thought at first glance) and easy to shoehorn fake-scumhunting (If both wagons are town, no one would look into the choices after they flip). The post in question is even more suspicious than I thought it would be, too. "If both flipped town, I'd reread." is a non-answer to avoid backlash for when they do flip town. Not only that, but he didn't even give a real answer for Dormio, so I can't compare it to his actions for today to see if they lined up.

Also, HW's case on PX is bad because you told him to vo-nah, just kidding :V.
I'll give your case the benefit of a doubt. Your vote, if I'm reading right, is because PX was policy lynching NeoSerela, right? You mention his attempt to justify his vote in 245 (The total reasoning in this post is "Because Serela is Useless, and he might be intending to sheep onto a strong case"). I want to direct you to PX's post 228 however. He accused Serela of "having no intention of scumhunting." Considering that you later clarified that Serela's inability to scumhunt is a large part in your reasoning, I'd like to know if any of this changes your case on PX and how.

##Unvote: Conqueror
##Vote: Huh What

Cut: Well, at least I don't have to worry about being accused of defending PX, since he also brought up the case rebuttal.

Generations isn't that curse-worthy until you accidentally fall into the very first pit in the level by being an idiot and timing your homing attack wrong, which has happened to me on Modern Crisis City on at least five separate occasions.

Only five? I do it at least fourteen times every time I try to speedrun it. Then again, I never use homing attack because it breaks up speedruns.

[Shadoweh]

Continued accusations of not scumhunting are trite. I have scum right in my sights that the rest of you won't bother to look at. That suspicion (read: blinding true fact) that he hasn't talked about anyone else is true. When he hammered the town wagon he didn't talk about why Serela was scummy. When he voted PX it was pretty much 'just because'. He hasn't said a thing about anyone else. The things he has said are just carbon copies of everyone else.  There is no trickery here. He's not scumhunting. He's not doing anything. Because he's flailing scum.

[Helepolis]

Because he was pushing Serela as scum, but only with associative tells that weren't based on flips. I wanted to know if he had further reasoning at that point, since he had expressed conviction against Serela a lot before replacing out. There shouldn't even be anything wrong with asking another playing for opinions, and it's baffling to me that you're trying to turn this into a reason to attack me.

Is that so?

Votecount in #151 ActionDan, only person voting on Serela while he is on L-2. And this was right before your dislike on Dan wagon which came down out of nowhere. You never ever solid cased on Serela. Kept on spouting "My best bet is Serela" while Shadoweh was at that point on Lynch danger. The Serela wagon has been always weak and never took real steam until Dormio suddenly got on L-1.

You request Dormio Lynch and Serela vig. If you requested a Dormio lynch, why the fuck are you swapping to Serela wagon when Dormio hitted L-1 with Pesco's vote right above you.

The Dormio Lynch was going to happen, just like you wanted. But you swap to Serela with a huge NULL explanation.[/url] even your so called "Summary of your vote" tells us absolutely nothing why you found Serela scummy at that time.

You opportunistic or planned left the Dormio wagon to increase Serela wagon and therefore blown your own words. This is scummy behaviour.

Less Bunbunmaru-spam pls.

Ayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayaya

[Shadoweh]

Read- PX: He's pissed off town. Will not vote this in a million years today.
Read- huh what: Seems to be being targetted for being the only one of you unhelpful jerks who answered my question with someone I could actually shoot last night. Not that I'm bitter. Despite paranoia about how he constantly tricks me with his shiny town aura I think he's town. Would not prefer this lynch.

[Conqueror]

(If the situations were reversed you would vote me for using AtE :V)

Are you saying you're scum because iirc I've never voted for you for AtE as town :V

Anyway, apologies for the tone in my previous post. Some out-of-game stuff was frustrating me.

Quick post: Helepolis, your most recent post seems to be implying that huhwhat is scum because he pushed Serela in lieu of a Dormio wagon. Does this mean you think Dormio is scum or do you mean to say something else?

[Conqueror]

Eww posting is hard.

Mmm, I read PX in ISO, and ehhhhh. On the one hand he doesn't have much content to sift through but I don't see anything wrong with his end-of-day wagon conduct (I privately debated switching to Dormio at the end). The cases on him (especially huhwhat's, since the Serela case was never much more than being fluffy-lurky --> thus unreadable) seem pretty overblown. huh what, who are your other choices for scum aside from PX?

Dormio is the same as yesterday. People (BT/Bard) who want to keep holding on to this case should explain why he's their best choice for scum after we have another day's worth of info. So Dormio is the only scum in town? (This goes to  both BT and Bardiche, as neither of them have deigned to provide anything else).



rawr, I want to know what changed between these two posts.

Why they both gotta claim to be vanilla townies . Of the 2 i think dormio has less confusing posts and my previous case on him is null, blah blah blah here and see what happens. I just want this day over just so i can get rereads on everyone.

##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

Seems like no one wants to swap and im the only who has no reason to vote for either of them

Mmmmmm cant say if i know this counts as being scummy but px's vote on dormio, he wasnt even 100% with himself, if i recall he said "you could try convincing me" which i guess could mean he was planning to switch from the start.

##Vote: px

Its all i got for right now, will try to read more, kinda hard now though....

This looks incredibly hypocritical given your stance on the wagons. You're voting PX for not being sure of Dormio scum...when you state that you yourself weren't really sure of their scumminess and in fact swapped between the two wagons with little reasoning. The vote on PX today looks like a blatant wagon hop when he hasn't mentioned PX before and drops mention of everything else from D1, and I would expect rawr as town to draw a parallel between his and PX's voting patterns at the end of the day. Also, what's wrong with them both wagonees yesterday claiming vanilla townie?

The Shadoweh/rawr stuff is a distraction since it feels like a trap on Shadoweh's part. However, I think rawr's conduct before this is questionable on its own.

##Vote: rawr for now
rawr, what do you think Shadoweh is if not town vig?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

So I ended up wasting today. Cool. How does I do that thing where I :wikipedia:?

Unfortunately, I can't find anything that I dislike too much about HW outside of the whole assumption thing, which the mods refuse to give confirmation on. So I guess I'm just crazy.
##Unvote

For some reason I can't read Conq right now. Whatever.

On the other hand, extreme dislike of BT.
##Vote BT
I'm pretty sure I said yesterday that BT seemed entirely forgettable. Why is that?
Well, first of all, his early D1 consisted of nothing. He voted for me, only to say that he had no intent to want to see me lynched at the time. He says as much in #206:

Dormio's finally moved on and started giving a bigger picture. Guess my vote served its purpose. ##Unvote. I still want your opinion on other peeps at the given moment, though, especially on Conq who you kind of forgot about.

Like, you know, he's saying that his vote was basically there to prod me. What makes it worse is that he failed to vote for anyone else at the time.
His excuse for not voting in #208 is that he "expressed his opinions on the people at large", but I can't see who he wants lynched at that point. Seriously.
He then disappears for a while until he reappears in #329. What does this post say? Not much, actually.
The only interesting words in the first section of the post is him defending Shadoweh.
In the latter half, where he votes for me, he doesn't really explain the vote. He states, "bad behaviour from before" but I never really got what he was referring to there.

I find it hard to believe a thought resembling "wait, I'm town, why am I doing this" did not cross your mind for the three or so hours you were pushing for that lynch.

Oh yeah. This thing. Why would that thought run cross my mind? This statement feels really bad to me.
I mean, it seems like just shit-flinging so that he could get me lynched.
This kind of statement requires no proving at all. All you need to do is say it, and the damage is done to the target, is it not?
There's more about this that feels off to me, but I don't know how to put it into words.

Which then brings us to D2.
BT keeps referring to his case on me, yet I fail to see it.
I mean, the whole pushing Shadoweh as SK was originally brought up by HW and you kind of sheeped to it. When did it become your case?
Also, you argue that the Serela lynch was bad because everyone was only wanting him lynched due to how useless he was being, but you know. Doesn't that also kind of apply to the whole SK!Shadoweh ordeal? Seriously, the latter half of the voters on me in D1 including you, what reason did any of them have other than the SK!Shadoweh thing?

That's because what you're doing now is questioning my vote and not why it is the right one. I've already done the analysis that is meant to convince players of the case, I will not repeat it. I've also expressed my opinion on why PX or HW are not the right vote.

Hey, you're town. Why are you doing this? :V

I-I'm only 17!

I didn't realize that we were still in 2001. :V

[Conqueror]

Other stuff and minor comments:

BT's sitting on the Dormio vote (and pretty much only Dormio) since day 1 is really irritating especially because even after I reread him for his Dormio case I still don't understand what his Dormio case is. (tl;dr I agree with Affinity/Pesco). He'd be a secondary choice for me, "confirmed town" be damned.

Shadoweh is probtown despite all the :psyduck:

Bardiche, is there anything we should know?

Helepolis, at least two people have asked you who else is scummy besides huhwhat.

Cut by Dormio- lol

[Conqueror]

Yep, Dormio is probtown too. d(`_`)b

Honestly, the main reason why I'm not just voting BT is because of PX's softclaim.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Honestly, the main reason why I'm not just voting BT is because of PX's softclaim.

Oh. Shit. He did do that, didn't he?
How does I read words? :/

[Pesco]

I don't see why PX's softclaim is worth believing without further elaboration. It's as worthless as a declaration that he's reading someone as town.

Painting creosote all day has given me a headache and very one of you is scum.

[Conqueror]

I will say that BT is confirmed town

Yeah, quoting here for reference. I don't know what the nature of this "confirmation" is but PX can choose to elaborate on it if he wishes. It's one point against a BT lynch though so eh.

Cut: I agree, but I don't know if I want to lynch against it. :V

[Dr Rawr]

Between those 2 posts? I had a computer and 24 hours to read and not worry about reading other peoples posts. I said in day1 i would take time to reread everything and try to form a case from something(apparently everything i say is a rehash of other peoples posts). My swap between the 2 wagons was in the last 10mins, how close to the deadline were you planning to switch :V

[Conqueror]

Lemme rephase. Why did you think PX was scum at the start of the day? It looked like you were voting him for reasons that could easily have been applied to you.