Path of Radiance Mafia -Game Over-

[Conqueror]

At this point, though, Conq's vote on Dormio is even more of a stretch than mine was. You should lynch him instead.

What is this; not me over me already?

Also fixing vote
##Unvote
##Vote: huhwhat

[Conqueror]

To be clear, I'm voting huhwhat because 1) contrived vote for me + 2) contrived vote for Dormio.
Dormio gets a pass for now until he rereads the game.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

See above for why I voted Dormio. As for why I think he's scum, I never particularly thought he was scum. It's not a pressure vote if you tell them it is.

lol
What did Dormio need pressure for at all at that point if you didn't think he was scum? He was the first person to actually say anything serious about the game. Still a votepark.

What is this; not me over me already?

I want people to lynch the player I think is scum.
I also don't want people to mislynch me.
???
This isn't Not Me Over Me, it's me trying to drive people away from a mislynch. At this point Bard looks like he's just voting me over a disagreement as to how commital Dormio's post was, which doesn't indicate anything about my alignment. I think I've explained myself against most of his original case fairly thoroughly.

Also, I switched to you before I saw Dormio switch (like I said, I got cut), and I'd say Bard came off more as irritated toward you for not voting with him at that point than actually suspicious of you. So no, I wasn't waiting for people to look your way before switching. The reversal of my opinions on Dormio was justified given how the day was unfolding IMO.

Also people using "contrived" as a buzzword against me is gsdfhjg. I'm sorry if you think my logic is shit but you could at least explain why you believe it's an attempt to push a mislynch in this particular scenario.

[Dr Rawr]

:V

Er you people word stuff better then i do

##Vote: Affinity

Could you clarify what strong point huh what had against px that is too early, i dont really get that. It looks like you just took up bardiche reason and covered it with something completely unrelated to bardiches reason for voting huh what

Also i am tempted to vote for huh what do to

At this point, though, Conq's vote on Dormio is even more of a stretch than mine was. You should lynch him instead.

I cant seem to find a reason he voted for dormio in the first place, and only seemed to have left it there because do to waiting for a reply?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Feels like extra baggage.  the vote on Conq seems weak overall.  prolly because you are giving scum motivations for voteparking Dormio that I don't see existing (a.k.a Conq not wanting reponsibly for placing your wagon at 4 votes).

I can see motivation for not wanting to be associated with swinging the wagons over to me. Critical moves like that draw attention. Scum don't want to be affiliated with the later positions on mislynch wagons either.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I cant seem to find a reason he voted for dormio in the first place, and only seemed to have left it there because do to waiting for a reply?

This is why his vote was more of a stretch than mine. I had a reason to vote, even if Bard disagreed with it.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Scum don't want to be affiliated with the later positions on mislynch wagons either.

I feel like I should elaborate on this.

I've noticed that on MotK, people very rarely look toward the base of mislynch wagons for scum when analyzing town flips. As a result, I ~personally~ avoid jumping onto wagons late as scum here, and would assume other people do the same (but maybe I'm just being self-centered).

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

...as a result, I think scum would have motivation to avoid swing the 3 / 3 wagons because it would be a critical move that would draw them attention in the future.

Or did I already say that?

Of course, it's pretty null now since he was somewhat bullied into it anyway.

This is devolving into streamofconsciousness posting. I'm done for the night, should be focusing on other things anyway.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

oh wait

It suddenly occurs to me that I only had 2 people voting me before Conq, which means he wouldn't have had the impact I assumed and my case is terrible.

Fuck, I'm not thinking properly tonight. I'll re-read this game after some sleep, and hopefully come up with something that isn't retarded.

[Conqueror]

Oh god if this is a repeat of Zombies I'm going to strangle someone.

What did Dormio need pressure for at all at that point if you didn't think he was scum? He was the first person to actually say anything serious about the game. Still a votepark.

Yes, huh what, I pressure my non-town reads. How else am I supposed to get reads on people? I question the assertation that Dormio was the first person to be serious about the game since he spent his early posts posting a garbed mess. My posts were an attempt to get the game going. Read them again.

I want people to lynch the player I think is scum.
I also don't want people to mislynch me.

This isn't Not Me Over Me, it's me trying to drive people away from a mislynch.

The post I quoted really makes it seem like you're framing it as one or another.

As for the timing on your switch, I can maybe buy that it was coincidental. The reasoning for the vote is still though.

Also people using "contrived" as a buzzword against me is gsdfhjg. I'm sorry if you think my logic is shit but you could at least explain why you believe it's an attempt to push a mislynch in this particular scenario.

Because your vote is disingenuous and I know I'm town. Also, I could say the same of your use of the word "votepark."

[Conqueror]

I can see motivation for not wanting to be associated with swinging the wagons over to me. Critical moves like that draw attention. Scum don't want to be affiliated with the later positions on mislynch wagons either.

I feel like I should elaborate on this.

I've noticed that on MotK, people very rarely look toward the base of mislynch wagons for scum when analyzing town flips. As a result, I ~personally~ avoid jumping onto wagons late as scum here, and would assume other people do the same (but maybe I'm just being self-centered).

Go ahead and meta me if you want, but this is a theory argument and you're haphazardly applying motivation where there isn't any. If you really want a specific counterexample where I as scum swung a wagon onto town, I can point you to my vote for Kiro in NotV. In fact that entire episode basically eats this theory up.
Anyway, I've already explained why I didn't switch my vote to you at the time.

This is why his vote was more of a stretch than mine. I had a reason to vote, even if Bard disagreed with it.

Already addressed this.

[Conqueror]

Welcome to the game rawr. Why are you tempted to vote huh what?

[Conqueror]

Not feeing it from Dormio PX Dan Conq huh what Affinity Bardiche so..

Requesting clarification from Shadoweh. So everyone who's posted so far is town?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Am I the only one that feels that Harold Wilson's #95 seems like it's trying to both appease and lead rawr, or something.
Just an observation, for now. Will expand on along with other things when I have the time.

[Pesco]

Dislike both Conq and Shadoweh. Huh What has astutely pointed out that PX's mash of words actually hides points and opinions, whereas mine is inane drivel.
Why do they go after me, instead of the person looking to mask their intentions?
Seems like I was an easier target, or something, due to my posts making less sense.
Having said that, PX's #36 seems to imply that PX originally thought that I was scum. What do you make of this, PX?

If you're aware of your posts being inane drivel, then why clutter up the thread with them? It's not pro-town and you claiming victim for it doesn't help. Which of your posts have your clear-cut intentions if you aren't hiding anything and what are they?

This statement is saying that you can now see why a townie would do something like what I was doing.
That implies two things:

• You did not know why I would do this if I were not town, ergo I was not town until that point.
• You yourself are a townie playing around with the same thing I was.

I ask you why you felt the need to make this statement.

PX needs to respond to this.

##Vote Dormio
That post was pretty noncommital and looks like you're taking advantage of what other people already said. Why Shadoweh over Conq? I'd argue Conq is worse from my perspective.

#50 looks like a solid leading post for Dormio to press PX with. It's only by now since PX hasn't responded and Dormio likely forgot about it that it looks non-committal. It makes your vote looks like you went for the next best thing whilst people were still annoyed with their garbage posts.

I'm going to wait to see more faces before deciding if any more of them are more deserving of having a vote stuck to them. Conq and I are going to be townie BFF's this game. I won't even accept any 1 vs 1's from him this time!

Stop doing this. You're letting scum dictate the flow of arguments and I will call you scummy every single time for hanging back..

On another note, huhwhat seems somewhat opportunistic in his  striking down of Dormio.  How is Dormio doing 'three weak attacks' scummy at a time when no one else seems to be attacking?  Also, no matter how questionable it might be, his point against PX is pretty strong for this time in my opinion, if one makes the assumption that Dormio's interpretation is correct.

Hi5. I conclude that Dormio had a good point without the interpretation assumption because he was calling out a weird post. What do you think of PX from this?

I like my Serela vote so much I think I'll let HW go for now.

Is finding HW scummy too mainstream for you? Explain why. Fukn hipster.

Never said I was reading Dormio as town, Dan. I said I didn't think the google translator shenanigans pointed to him being scum, and I still maintain this opinion.

Then is Dormio scum? This doesn't sound like conviction in your voting.

For this.  Asking for a pat on the head made me administer a flick to my computer screen.  Knee-Jerk vote.  I feel the need to apply pressure to his forehead more.

I'd consider voting Hw and possibly Affinity.  However,I feel this way too.

Actually, Shadoweh, would you mind voting Serela with me, I feel a little lonely

Your explanation for the Serela vote is seriously no better than a jokevote. And still not enough explaining why for all these other little bits.

The posts from Conq and HW were good info up until the end of page 3. Page 4 reads like rageposting. Anyways, I' find Conq's points clearer and better explained except for the bit about pressing people. All of Conq's posts have been responsive than active. I want to see this improved later. It's only passable now because of the rate that people are posting at.

HW's vote on Dormio was bad as said above. The same quoted post telegraphs the suspicion on Conq which I'll give credit for. But cut or not, that vote post still looks terrible. If HW is voting Conq for being too scared to further the wagon, it's pretty poor because Dormio is not voting Conq for that reason (hence how is Dormio saying the same thing as you?). I think it's just as possible that you got cut, saw the potential to move onto a Conq lynch since a Dormio one was losing steam and then tacked on a switch.

##Unvote
##Vote HW

[Dr Rawr]

I wrote up this post, but then i deleted it because it didnt sound right at all, i think ill just sleep on this and in the morning write up why none of this makes sense to me

[Pesco]

If words fail you Rawr, use your fantastic art skills :V

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Decided to stop being obvscum and do my re-read now, since it's the only way I'm not going to hate myself going to bed tonight (and the other option is you jerks going HW IS LURKING OUT when I don't post tomorrow morning due to school, see Vanilla II). On the other hand, this means I'm posting while feeling slightly neurotic, and the odds of this resulting in NotV!huhwhat (or for a scum meta comparision, EndOfD3!Capt.Li) are a lot higher than I'd like them to be, so :/.


- Dormio still looks townie despite my initial read. Like I said, I felt better about him after his Conq vote because he basically took the strong stance I wanted him to take.
- I'm not denying anything said in #103 because it's true. Defending myself and trying to push somebody toward voting the person I wanted dead at the time isn't scummy, though.
- I still disagree with how long Conq stayed on Dormio, because I'm not finding any of his points on Dormio relatable from my PoV. It looks to me like Dormio was engaging with the parts of the game that were related to his opinions, which IMO isn't a problem if the alternative would have been posting a bunch of throwaway lines.
- Regardless, I think Conq is probably not scummy like I thought after reading his rebuttals, mainly because the main reason I saw scum intent in him delaying his voteswitch doesn't actually exist and was the result of me miscounting the votes. <____<

Overall conclusion of re-read:
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
Him attacking me and Affinity while leaving his vote on Serela is the equivalent of him egging on arguments he should believe to be town in nature, given that he said he thought the scum haven't been posting up until this point.

Shadoweh is in a similiar boat, but has just been downright not scumhunting. It's still irksome that she switched away her garbage vote on Dormio as soon as she got called out on it, only to make a vote of equal worth immediately after. I think Dan is the worse of the two, though, because he's trying to look like he has opinions while still avoiding accountability.

I will hopefully stop channeling Top Man/iac (pick reference of choice) in terms of 180-readspins tomorrow.

Three cuts but I want to Get This Post Out Here and go to bed. Will read them tomorrow.

[Shadoweh]

Requesting clarification from Shadoweh. So everyone who's posted so far is town?

Well, Affinity is scummy, but that's like saying people need air to breathe. The level of over-reactive flailing struck me as a giant town hullapaloza. There are still people that haven't confirmed. Actually, I don't feel like my vote is in a bad place so far.

Also i am tempted to vote for huh what do to

Vote for him? Alternatively, explain why you wish to vote for him. Temptation is only as good as the pressure you put behind persuing it.

Why is huh what at like five votes for being hyperactive? Shutup with your this isn't my case on him, he's the one replying to as many posts as possible, of course he sounds disjointed.  Just look back at what you're doing and realize this wagon looks incredibly silly.

@Pesco: Scum can't dictate arguments they're not a part of. Do you agree that 90% of full-blown text wars in mafia consist of early town vs town paranoia arguments? I thyink the entire derp chorus at the beginning was town and I have to reason to change my hypothesis yet.

Also stop cutting me, what is wrong with you emos.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I may not have the time to make a full post, but I do have enough to note that Shadoweh still has yet to answer my question about why she is continuing to vote for me.
In fact, she states in her latest post that she feels that her vote is in a good place. Which, in turn, causes me to ask once more: Why?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Oh, and I failed to realize that she swapped her vote off me at some point. Whatever, she never did justify her vote on me, instead switching it to someone who hadn't posted much and ignoring everything else that had happened. I'll just note that.

[Shadoweh]

I may be half asleep but I do have enough to note that Shadoweh isn't voting for Dormio so asking her that question is pretty silly.
Hey stop cutting me, now my snappy comeback only looks half as good. I never had a reason to vote for you. I actually said that when I unvoted you.

[Pesco]

@Pesco: Scum can't dictate arguments they're not a part of. Do you agree that 90% of full-blown text wars in mafia consist of early town vs town paranoia arguments? I thyink the entire derp chorus at the beginning was town and I have to reason to change my hypothesis yet.

Your naivete is precisely why I would be more than happy to get into a big wall-fight with anyone ED1 as scum to abuse the cred.

[PX]

PX needs to respond to this.

No, because that never happened.

Protoman seems awfully passive. Has he been doing this for the past few games? And you certainly seem more interested in looking at the people who haven't posted than looking over what's already on the table.

ActionDan, you'd consider voting either HW or Affinity, but you choose to go after Serela? Someone who hasn't posted? Not to mention your reasons on Affinity are sketchy at best, and seem awfully flaky.

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan

[Affinity]

In short, huhwhat/Conq catfight seems ridiculous, since they are making valid arguments based on totally unsound premises on both ends, except for huhwhat's 'contrived' vote on Dormio which almost everyone pretty much agrees with.   Even that, however, doesn't seem to be as significant as it should, since huhwhat did make a easy, yet decent case on ActionDan after withdrawing from his Conq case.  Just due to that, I'm inclined to move my vote somewhere else for now.

##Unvote
##Vote: PX

PX, what are your thoughts regarding huhwhat/Conq?  Also, why did you vote ActionDan as opposed to Shadoweh, since you give the same reasons for your disliking of both of them?  The way the above post is, it seems as if you voted Dan out of the blue without considering other possibilities, which seems pretty scummy.

[Affinity]

Could you clarify what strong point huh what had against px that is too early, i dont really get that

Dormio, not huh what.  I thought that he made a decent point against PX here, which felt like a 'strong attack' to me at that time, to use huhwhat's term.  That's why I disagreed with HW's opinion of Dormio weakly poking three people and voted him for that.

[Serela]

I BARELY had enough time to skim the thread before going to school, just going to establish 2 things because I'm running out the door and will be back later

A.If it is a weekday and not between 4pm and 10 pm 12 pm EST I am (unless I skipped school or something) not avaliable
B.I agree with overall sentiment that "Dan what are you doing jokevoting Serela instead of actually paying attention to, iunno, something important?"

not changing votes because there's already between 3~5 or something votes on Dan and I haven't gotten time to think about other people enough
I'll say more when I actually have time

[Bardiche]

At this point Bard looks like he's just voting me over a disagreement as to how commital Dormio's post was, which doesn't indicate anything about my alignment.

:| That was not at all what I am voting you for.

I'd say Bard came off more as irritated toward you for not voting with him at that point than actually suspicious of you.

No, actually. Even if he hadn't cut me by fingering you I would've been annoyed with Conq for only softly pointing in the direction of possible scum without pursuing it. Like what he did just then.

I don't really like your reasoning regarding the pressure on Dormio, Huh What, and the switch to Conq feels like a panicked attack; the assertion that "Conq's vote is more of a stretch, vote him!" annoys me on a personal level and makes me want to lynch you from a Mafia-player's point of view: Conqueror not once pretended his vote on Dormio had any legitimate backing, from the way he declared to just bandwagon both Dormio and PX until they'd start making sense.

What I hold against you that I do not hold against Shadoweh and Conqueror is that while Conqueror and Shadoweh's votes are shit, they didn't bother fluffing it up with legitimate reasons. On the other hand, you did try to find reasons which seem like a stretch just to validate a vote on Dormio.

Also, I don't get why you're voting Conq for not voting you. That seems kind of facetious. Can you break down your case on Conqueror in understandable language, preferably bullet points?



Conq, on the fence about. My kneejerk reaction is to vote him, but I'm not sold on him being scum on a logical level. Conq, can you break down what your case on Huh What is, exactly? I'm having difficulty parsing it.

Shadoweh, sigh, why are you hunting lurkers instead of scum? Why do you complain about people voting Huh What for what they feel is scummy behaviour (and he might well be flailing) while doing nothing yourself? Blatant voteparking doesn't cut it anymore, why do you feel pursuing a lurker is better than fingering the active ones?

Cut by Serela. One day I will roll day vig and justice will be sweet.

[Schezo]

Voting:
PX (1): Affinity
Shadoweh (1): Serela
Huh What (3): Bardiche, Conq, Pesco
Serela (1): ActionDan
Conqueror (1): Dormio
dr rawr (1): Shadoweh
Affinity (1): nurse rawr
ActionDan (2): Huh What, PX

Not Voting: BT, Trickysticks

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline for day 1 is ~60 hours. (watch timer here)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Pesco:

Then is Dormio scum? This doesn't sound like conviction in your voting.

I felt that he was, but people were attacking him over null tells that I wouldn't lynch him on, which doesn't really have anything to do with conviction.

I thought Dormio had the same reasons for voting Conq as me because I wrote up my case, got cut while previewing/proofreading, then skimmed his post and got the impression it was similiar. Like I said earlier, I can't process new posts when I'm already writing out a response to something.

Do you think Dan and Shadoweh are scummy? You made remarks toward their post but didn't actually say anything conclusive.

Shadoweh: what do you think of Dan? It looked to me like he was using your "scum haven't posted yet" claim as a tool. You should have definitely an opinion on who is scum beyond clinging to your Rawr vote at this point.

Bard: I don't currently have a case on Conq and never had one that wasn't founded on a misconception due to me posting in Mafia on a day where I wasn't able to focus, which is why I'm not voting him. Other than that, I still think this looks like a PoV argument since I thought and still think my Dormio vote made sense at the time I made it (evidently people disagree with me).

I'm going to school, will post more in-depth when I'm back.