Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F

[Serela]

About what level do you need to be to start the Plus Disk stuff? I am wondering if I should bother doing all the vanilla Post-Game stuff first, or if I can just dive in and use the Plus Disk stuff as an excuse to level up.

e: Oh also, is there anywhere that has compiled all the changes to the main game? Character skills, subclass skills, etc. I can vaguely remember a few but I cant keep them all in my head at the same time, so it'd be nice to have them all in one place.

As for main game changes, I think I got them all in this snippet

The only thing that's been in any patch notes I've read about old content rebal is just that a few characters have new skills from the get-go; Kogasa, Cirno, Meiling, Keine, Youmu, Alice... and Utsuho's moves were powered up, along with Cat's Walk, Knock Out in Three Steps, and Flandre's first two moves were powered up whilst Lavaeteinn was powered down. Plus some bugfixes, like Fighting Spirit's damage reduction didn't used to work.

Along with Byakuren's Duplicating Scroll changing so that at +100% of all her own stats, she doles out about 56% buff at lv5 scroll. However it also functions as a normal buff, instead of setting your stats to 56%. All her sutras were also nerfed to 12% instead of 14%, so Strategist Byakuren does -slowly- decay in buffs now instead of perma-100%. She's still an incredible buffer and pretty much the best option, just... not quite as insanely so as before.

[RegalStar]

How do I get past the rock on B5F that's near the relay circle to access the boss and how to go past the rock on B6F?

If you mean those colored ices, you need to find special items elsewhere on the floor to break them. 蒼の衝撃符 are used to break blue rocks, and 紫の衝撃符 are used to breka purple rocks.

[RegalStar]

All her sutras were also nerfed to 12% instead of 14%

The descriptions are changed to 12%, but they actually still buff by 14%.

[Validon98]

...So for whatever reason, my save file for achievements got borked somehow and I was getting none of the Plus Disk achievements, so I went into my save file and discovered that both achievement 1 and all of the Plus Disk achievements were marked with a garbage flag instead of 0x0/0x1/0x2, so I went and fixed that.



Whelp, cue me getting a bunch of stuff all at once. Thanks game. :V

EDIT:



Grinding 25F over and over for gems since I screwed up a bunch earlier and forgot that clearing a floor of all chests also gave you gems, and uh... huh. Didn't think you could get ten at once from one chest (note: this was from a rank three chest opened with a key)

EDIT 2: Oh, uh, quick question: how do you unblock the rocks on B7F that lead to what I assume is the Shadow Moriya fight?

[RegalStar]

I've seen up to 20 from a chest once from rank 4 chests. Still, "farming" for those things is still a real pain; if you can stand the boredom of killing Murakumo over and over again I'd recommend that for farming stat gems instead of farming infinity gems to do so.

EDIT: To get past that rock you need to finish constructing the five element circle on 23F and 24F (basically trigger 5 events). In turn, you need to beat up all the shadows between B1F and B7F before you can get past the rock on 24F that lets you ascend to 25F.

[elminster1372]

Just out of curiosity, but... are characters which don't have any family boosts still competitive, despite the whole Proof of Kinship thing? One of my favourite TH2 chars was Yuuka, but I wonder if she still can find a spot on the team with all the new changes. I still wish to see her reducing enemies to mists of atoms ♥

[Serela]

Of course! Most of the families only even have 3 members, which makes the boost nice, but not critical. It's only 9 team and Earth Spirits that have crazy high boosts (and tbh earth spirits characters could kinda use the help to be competitive), and several SDM members are a little underwhelming -unless- you're running the whole team. And 9 team gets a minor passive for non-family so you can get away with running 'em solo.

Perhaps even more importantly, you're only going to have a handful of Awakened characters until super endgame, as far as I can tell. And the ones without family boosts still often have very nice corridor skills instead of Proof of Kinship.

Yuuka continues to look like a nice bulky attacker. If anything she's better off because there's less of the original postgame's issue with all the bosses having really high defenses, and because she's got more elemental variety, even more with subclasses; and she's a character more potentially able to use subclass moves as her innate ones have lowish formulas instead powered by her stats/selfbuffs/extra attack. Yuuka could really do some work with postgame sub skills, especially considering her high attack stat (or, for the composites, her high combo of both atk -and- mag).

[jaxter0987]

Sorry, Victim of Reimu and Marisa's Brutality maxes at level 2. The level 4 skill is the one that increase chance of Reading.

Oh, and Beauty of Nature is WND-elemental now.

Also, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
-

:ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear:

Late to the party but oh god the horror!

[RegalStar]

Late to the party but oh god the horror!

B7F dark areas are nothing compared to the HUGE mostly dark half of a floor on B9F. See all those green tiles? All of them are dark. And the single flower tiles are slippery. It took me an entire evening to get through this whole mess. (At least when the English patch comes out, there should be maps on atwiki so most people don't have to actually do this themselves)

[Serela]

I look forward to interesting exploration. The original lot2 postgame's "Extra" floors... urgh, the downwards ones are just a super boring slog through nothing. The bottommost one doesn't even have a boss or anything, it's just a few pieces of equipment to find. Thank god the upwards ones are better. Partially because it's faster; all the holes you hop through and floor changing means less fights so it goes faster.

I'm also a masochist, though. I EMBRACE ETRIAN POSTGAME STYLE DUNGEON DESIGN :D

LoT1 plus disk had balance issues and heavy grinding, but several of the floors were pretty neat. The unfloor'd floor was kind of annoying to find treasure in, admittedly, but it was hilarious and neat, and the one-way-trips floor (28f?) was fun to struggle with and figure out. I was kind of disappointed LoT2 didn't have any smoother floor mechanics like one-way-walls that LoT1 did, instead using heavyhanded vague arrow warp tiles for -any- unusual tile movement, as opposed to a slide, one-way-wall, etc. Looks like Plus does better on that end.

[elminster1372]

Of course! Most of the families only even have 3 members, which makes the boost nice, but not critical. It's only 9 team and Earth Spirits that have crazy high boosts (and tbh earth spirits characters could kinda use the help to be competitive), and several SDM members are a little underwhelming -unless- you're running the whole team. And 9 team gets a minor passive for non-family so you can get away with running 'em solo.

Perhaps even more importantly, you're only going to have a handful of Awakened characters until super endgame, as far as I can tell. And the ones without family boosts still often have very nice corridor skills instead of Proof of Kinship.

Yuuka continues to look like a nice bulky attacker. If anything she's better off because there's less of the original postgame's issue with all the bosses having really high defenses, and because she's got more elemental variety, even more with subclasses; and she's a character more potentially able to use subclass moves as her innate ones have lowish formulas instead powered by her stats/selfbuffs/extra attack. Yuuka could really do some work with postgame sub skills, especially considering her high attack stat (or, for the composites, her high combo of both atk -and- mag).

That is great to know! And what about Sanae? In the original TH2, I found her TP passive to be so good that I had little reason not to include her (and Suwako, and Kanako) on the team. Is her passive still that good in the plus disk? I wouldn't mind replacing her altogether, honestly :-) (maybe with some favourites of mine like Yuuka, Youmu/Yuyuko, Renko/Maribel, etc.)

[RegalStar]

I would say that her TP restorative isn't so good for normal game any more, since 1) your characters are more likely to have massively larger TP pools from better equipment and more skill points to throw points in TP boost, and 2) plus disk encounters are engineered to be tough (with high payouts to compensate), it's less likely that you can avoid having higher-than-1 TP loss per battle most of the time, so 1 TP per battle is no longer as useful as it used to be. However, if you're looking for consecutive floor clears on endless corridor because you want a Machine God Lucifer or something, then her TP restoration becomes vitally important for that purpose. That being said, I do not recommend doing something like that until you've completely finished everything that the normal game has to offer (including future plus disk contents), since getting your team completely awakened and extra stat'd (from boosting items and skills) are more important than a single piece of excellent sub-equip.

[Validon98]

Since a new patch was mentioned, I looked through it and saw the one about the chest that had 0 yen in it. I figured it was a bug, but still. :V
Also, something about fixing experience and money gains in the Endless Corridor? I figured they were kind of too small when nearing enemy levels in the 300s, but I thought that was just to say "hey don't grind here do your grinding in the Depths or the Terminus" (Terminus being what I'm calling the new above-ground floors, since they're "the end of the Great Tree" as mentioned in 27F's floor title)

[RegalStar]

I'm pretty sure that it's only meant for monsters that get really high level (because of the "repeatedly loop last floor = enemies still get gradually stronger" thing). Endless corridor monsters giving far less experience than normal monsters should be normal since it means that there won't be a lot of level difference between players who clear the place and players who don't; it's only a sidequest after all.

(Also IIRC B10F monsters are both easier to deal with and more rewarding than 27F monsters)

[Validon98]

Alright, "final boss" of the story down for the count courtesy of Team 9. That's that I guess.

...Though, oddly enough, I've missed Kokoro apparently. I have all four masks, but I dunno what to do with them now to get her.

EDIT: ...Nevermind, she's just standing right there at the beginning of 24F. Well then I'm stupid.

[elminster1372]

Thanks for the answers! Ah another thing: assuming somebody knows, but... should we expect an English patch before the major patch announced for around February (the one extending the limits for the Endless Corridor past 999 etc.) or are we gonna wait until that?

[RegalStar]

So from the new text dump, the WINNER subclass has gotten one more toy to play with:

Medicine of Life
Cost 5 MP　　Single Target: NTR　　Auxillary Action
Subclass spell that recovers a small amount of HP to the user.
If used while TP is 16 or more, it will consume 16 TP to fully heal HP and MP.

[Myosotis]

repeatedly loop last floor = enemies still get gradually stronger

I had no idea, let me take back my disappointment about the endless corridor not being endless.

major patch announced for around February (the one extending the limits for the Endless Corridor past 999 etc.)

I think 999 will be the limit if I got that right.

[Validon98]

Oh, if anyone wants a "full NG+" file, including all the Plus Disk characters, I've thrown one together, problem being that you'll end up getting the +20000 yen from the game considering you to have beaten the Deformed bosses as with usual when starting with Renko and Maribel, but eh, that's always been a problem with using an NG+ file. But yeah, all 56 characters from the get-go NG+ style, enjoy.

[Serela]

Oh, if anyone wants a "full NG+" file, including all the Plus Disk characters, I've thrown one together, problem being that you'll end up getting the +20000 yen from the game considering you to have beaten the Deformed bosses as with usual when starting with Renko and Maribel, but eh, that's always been a problem with using an NG+ file. But yeah, all 56 characters from the get-go NG+ style, enjoy.

Hmmm? Perhaps you should start a normal ingame NG+ and then edit in the plus disk characters?

Because even in the current english patch version, if you NG+ you get Renko/Maribel without any such glitch. I just tested it.

[Validon98]

Nah, even if you start from a fresh file, editing the save in any way after still triggers those achievements.

[Serela]

Hmm, I see. Well, he'll probably add in a proper final NG+ eventually. Like after he finishes making the rest of the game :V

[Nyxnyx]

Anyone know which page details the full patch note of buffs and nerfs to existing characters?

[Validon98]

Anyone know which page details the full patch note of buffs and nerfs to existing characters?

Unfortunately, all that stuff is all over the place. It'd probably be a good idea to compile all the changes in one place and then push them to the wiki in some way, since people are more likely than not to use that as a source of info, they're just scattered all over the place. Along those lines, seems like no one has really done anything on the JP wiki either other than the trial stuff, so not even that's a good source right now.

[Myosotis]

I'm not sure if there were any further changes to existing characters ever since the trial, but there's this. I'm not sure if the additonal skills listed were awakening skills or normal ones, or a mix of both either.
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19029.msg1231810.html#msg1231810

[Serela]

Those are all not awakening skills. In addition, since then new Not-Awakening skills have been added for Kogasa, Keine, Youmu, and Meiling. I believe that plus the linked page is the total of all changes. He says he may have tinkered with other base stats, but back then, I checked many characters and couldn't find any differences, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Validon98]

Even though there's more experience to be found in the third Depths stratum, 27F is still pretty decent since enemies can drop HP/MP/TP stat gems from what I notice, so for now while I'm still at like, B8F/B9F, 27F is pretty solid for getting my team up. Just need to get a bunch of keys because holy hell there's locked chests everywhere.

[Serela]

enemies can drop HP/MP/TP stat gems from what I notice

aaaaaaaa

I imagine the drop rate isn't very high, but what kind of numbers are we lookin' at here? Thankfully the bestiary has exact %s in this game.

[RegalStar]

From 27F
Massive Kedama - Life Gem 3.0%
Emerald Sword Demon - DEF Gem 6.0%
Tentacle Flower of Dark Sky - MND Gem 5.0%
Exa Grain - TP Gem 4.8%
Kedama Hermit Sage - MP Gem 8.0%

From B10F
Abyss Naga - Life Gem 6.4%

OK so I guess 27F is better for grinding after all because of those gems

[Validon98]

Yeah, I've been getting them fairly often, but then again my team's very, very high level at this point, like maybe too high.

Speaking of high level stuff



Not only notice my party level, but also "holy damn I got a Togakuwa Doubling Gold without having to grind up the insane Seven Star Dust requirement"