Author Topic: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread  (Read 150514 times)

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #180 on: April 06, 2016, 06:33:38 AM »
Just ordered the last few Weiss Schwarz cards that I'm probably going to buy for a while to round off my main deck. I need First Step of Lifelong Ambition, Satsuki to drop by another couple of dollars before I'll order the last few copies I need of it, but aside from that I have everything I want and more. Not sure how the deck will ultimately look since it's kind of heavily based around Disguise and Disguise is a super weird card and I don't know how many copies I should be running. It could almost be a Nui theme deck except that there are no Nui-based backups and I think only one climax featuring her. As it is I splash blue for just a handful of cards, and those cards keep getting chipped away as I commit more heavily to the Disguise/Dodging Nui/Spinning Wheel Of Fate Nui combo.

Kill La Kill has historically been like the most expensive set to play casually because the only level three characters are double rares (or trial deck exclusive) and fairly expensive, but between Nui being the cheapest three-drop and the prices of everything slowly creeping down I've finally managed to get what seems to be a nice deck together for not a ton of money. That kind of leaves all of my cool yellow and red cards without a home, but I'll probably pick up a second trial deck eventually to fill out level three and put them together into another deck.

And English card prices are stupidly inflated for no reason

Maybe it's just the era of printing, but it seems like the English cards I own have considerably better production than the few Japanese cards I own. I have a few Japanese Kill La Kill cards that seem like they're on slightly lower-quality stock with lower-quality foil, and a couple hundred Railgun cards that are on lesser stock , so the argument could be made that the English cards should cost a little more. They are some of the most robust trading cards I've ever handled, and that just doesn't seem to be true of the Japanese ones.

That doesn't justify the absolutely insane cost-per-pack prices a lot of places charge, but you can get around that buying online and then the packs are as cheap as or cheaper than Magic. Of course they have like half as many cards so it's still technically a very expensive game, but going by my local game stores it's the most expensive game on Earth. Their prices are crazy. I still buy from them very occasionally, especially trial decks, hoping that it will push them toward stocking more stuff at better prices, but mostly they're just too unaffordable.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #181 on: April 06, 2016, 03:38:31 PM »
My bigger worry is that you can just plop Thing in the Ice in a storm deck and have him flipped and attacking just a couple turns into the game, especially since storm is so saturated with card draw.
I thought over this while I was getting ready this morning and while Thing in the Ice is more threatening than I originally evaluated it as, I don't think the biggest threat is its attacking. 4 toughness is a significant number since it means it won't get one-shotted by Lightning Bolt and I can not think of any same-cost creatures that can get past it. Killing off a Thing before it transforms is going to cost a lot of resources compared to how much it costs to summon it (unless you're in the colors for Doom Blade/Path to Exile)

The power and toughness of the transformed Thing aren't what concern me the most, but the triggered effect. Washing away almost every creature on the field is a huge tempo loss for the opponent, and for blue decks that want to stall as much as possible until they go off, that's a huge advantage. I get the idea that the majority of decks that want to use Thing in the Ice/Awoken Horror are going to win without ever attacking with it.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #182 on: April 06, 2016, 04:07:30 PM »
I don't think there's much a reason for them to go out of their way to not attack though. Control decks still need win conditions, and Awoken Horror is a very acceptable one. That may not be the single reason you play it, but it's certainly a big part of why it's good.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #183 on: April 06, 2016, 05:06:24 PM »
@TAC: That's my concern with storm though-- Thing in the Ice fills in their one real weakness, especially since they run next to no  creatures. So now they have a wall that you can't ping them through to outpace their combo, and then they can just as easily drop one of their cantrip combos to clear my board and just sweep away for the win, as if storm wasn't already gross and overused as it is.

That said, if it's going to be a common threat, I'm tempted to get a playset of them for a control deck.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #184 on: April 08, 2016, 06:37:20 PM »
Played in my first Modern event last night, went 2-2 with my budget monogreen deck. Surprised I performed as well as I did. Need to shore myself up against the mirror match, though.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #185 on: April 08, 2016, 08:10:46 PM »
Yo TAC I made a deck inspired by the cards you mentioned to me, what do you think/suggest?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/circle-of-life-and-death-1/

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #186 on: April 08, 2016, 11:15:05 PM »
I'd say go for 22-24 lands with something like that. Scoured Barrens is fairly cheap and gives you the extra life to work with, while Temple of Silence gives you a little bit of control over your topdecks. You might also want to look at Doom Blade as a kill spell for single targets; it's not as strict with its mana requirements as Bile Blight is which makes it good for dual-color decks. Dismember gives you even more versatility with mana cost, but it's also over $3 per copy.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #187 on: April 09, 2016, 03:57:17 AM »
Well, I had put Bile Blight in along with Killing Wave not just for hitting my opponents, but for hitting myself. Since I would be running playsets of a bunch of stuff, Bile Blight would let me hit them all at once and let the Cutthroats do their work.

The manabase is kinda flimsy though-- I did consider, instead, running Eldrazi Displacer, Blight Herder, and Bojuka Bog to fuel the flicker cycling, but it seemed too complex to pull off consistently.

My biggest concern is that the main force around the deck is having multiples of two cards on the field-- the Cutthroat and the Healer-- which means I only have 8 chances out of 60 to pull them, and the odds of me getting a bunch out in one game without having a way to hunt them down are pretty low.


Meanwhile! I just got back from Release Night Friday Night Modern Magic. Since I'm gonna be picking apart my Affinity deck for things to put in my homebrew Modern and Standard decks, I decided I'd let it have one more try.

Round 1: 2/1
Round 2: 2/1
Round 3 (at table 1!): 2/0
Round 4 (still at table 1!): 2/0

At this point I was super hyped because I have NEVER done this well before, and was in first place for two rounds. Had it all ended there, I would have came in first. But it had to go into a fifth round, and my opponent was running Grixis Control-- which was something I simply could not compete against. He boardwiped me and countered every last artifact I put down.

Round 5 (at table 2): 0/2

But I still came in second place out of like 30 people, yo. Best I've ever done! I'm so pleased right now.

Also, I pulled a Thing in the Ice in one of the packs I bought before the tournament.

Tonight was a good night.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 04:25:38 AM by Matsuri »

PX

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #188 on: April 09, 2016, 04:58:10 AM »
Got back from a Weiss local and we had 4 new guys show up, and I felt absolutely awful about destroying one of them because his deck was completely terrible. Gave him a lot of advice after and a couple of us fixed up his deck

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #189 on: April 09, 2016, 05:03:21 AM »
That's the best way to do it, honestly, but I think new players should always expect to lose, because that's one of the best ways to learn. And if they know how to take it in stride and not get discouraged, there's no reason to feel bad for beating them, so long as you give advice after, if desired.

I only recently started MtG and the folks I play with know I'm new, so they're all too eager to show off their $500+ netdecks and beat me down with them. They can be pretty fucking arrogant at times, but I take it in stride because I go in intentionally expecting to lose, and I've learned a lot from their (sometimes very condescending) advice.

commandercool

  • alter cool
Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #190 on: April 09, 2016, 05:13:25 AM »
Wow, four new people? How many regulars do you have? I'm not sure I could get four total if I tried to run it here. Then again I haven't tried, so maybe there are dozens of people without a place to play, or maybe we could build a stable base over time.

Trashing new/bad players is an inevitable part of tournament play. It's best to just offer as much advice as they're interested in receiving (which is just about always some in my experience). I recently had a similar experience with Weiss Schwarz on the receiving end (I didn't get completely wrecked, but I did lose every game by at least a little), the guy who beat me was happy to give me some pointers, and I learned from it. Very handy.

Weiss Schwarz is, from my perspective at least, a confounding game. Most modern card games are more or less built on a foundation of Magic, but Weiss Schwarz really doesn't feel like it is. It's like learning a new language. Most of the usual rules don't apply to it, and that makes it hard to learn. That also makes it fascinating, but I can't really evaluate how good or bad I am at it. Maybe I'm completely terrible and I just don't know it.

That's the best way to do it, honestly, but I think new players should always expect to lose, because that's one of the best ways to learn. And if they know how to take it in stride and not get discouraged, there's no reason to feel bad for beating them, so long as you give advice after, if desired.

I only recently started MtG and the folks I play with know I'm new, so they're all too eager to show off their $500+ netdecks and beat me down with them. They can be pretty fucking arrogant at times, but I take it in stride because I go in intentionally expecting to lose, and I've learned a lot from their (sometimes very condescending) advice.


Magic players are, by and large, the most arrogant shits in gaming. I blame the Wizards policy of trying to inflate Magic as this super serious professional game with big payouts and DCI rankings and shit. It really attracts the poker douchebag crowd, and unfortunately they're a very vocal part of the organized community. That's not to say my overall experiences with Magic are negative, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that I've learned the times and places to avoid.

And you have never seen someone whine like one of those guys whines when they get beaten by someone they've never seen before at their insular local scene in a sealed event or something. One of the guys in my Commander group is the fifteen-year-old son of one of my older friends. I taught him to play personally, and he has become way better at Magic than me. Watching the DCI whores panic when he beats them is glorious. He has caused more than a few pompous asses to drop from sealed events because they were so mad when he beat them.

Of course I'm not saying that your point about losing isn't completely valid. It is. It's just that a significant part of the Magic community isn't that much fun to lose to in my experience. And that's too bad.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #191 on: April 09, 2016, 05:55:35 AM »
The worst part is that my preferred LGS is the least obnoxious one of the three near me. There's one store that surely has the best card selection if I'm looking for something, but I only ever go there to shop, never to play, because they're just way too stuck up there.

Sadly, the crowd I play with most at my store are the obnoxious hyper competitive crowd, since I made the dumb decision to get into Modern as my primary format. But the tantrums they throw are as spectacular as they are pathetic. I still remember the look on one guy's face on one of my very first days there when I beat his $1000~ish Tarmogoyf deck with the silly deck I had cobbled together with 2 white starter packs. He threw no tantrum, but I could tell he was stunned.

The worst part of all of this is that being arrogant about Magic is so fucking stupid, especially when you realize that a huge percentage of how well a deck works boils down to sheer luck. And when you talk up a huge arrogant game before a match and lose to bad luck, you look really stupid. But I've also noticed that these are some of the worst people to make theories and strategies with when it comes to cards too, because they're permanently stuck in netdecking mode where anything short of the best is bad.

I have so much fun playing with people who make off the wall, interesting, and sometimes downright silly decks, because they teach me so much about the mechanics of the game, and they're often budget decks like I prefer playing, so we're on a much more even playing field too. The games I played tonight at FNM were pretty fantastic! They were tense and unpredictable, and the games I lost, I laughed and shook their hand afterward, because it WAS fun and unpredictable.

For example, in round 2 I was playing a guy who was running a blue/red pauper deck. Really nice guy, and his deck was straightforward-- throw down Kiln Fiend, feed it buffs, and wreck shit.

Picture the field. He has a Kiln Fiend down, while I have an Ornithopter, Memnite, and Frogmite tapped on my side, with a freshly summoned Vault Skirge, so it was untapped. All had +2/+2 from Tempered Steel. I had.... 14 life, I think? He had 1 life left.

I was sure I had him. I thought for sure that round was mine.

He said "Ugh, if only I had one more blue, I could end this". I asked him how he could do that, and he just said "we'll see..." and threw down a Gitaxian Probe with the one he blue mana he had. I don't remember the card he pulled, but it was something else he needed, and he suddenly buffed the Kiln Fiend up to 9/9 somehow, and played Temur Battle Rage, which gave it double strike and trample-- so it was suddenly an 18/18 attack that my little robot bug could not withstand. Once it sunk in that he completely turned the game around with one simple card, I wasn't even mad, I was impressed and happy for him.

He literally topdecked the one card he needed to beat me. It was spectacular and the guy was great conversation too, as we shared strategy ideas for decks we plan on making, and ideas to improve them.

Those are the kind of games I love. Win or lose, I like it when the tension is high and the game runs long. You don't get that kind of depth from the game when all you play are decks that are designed to win on turn 3-4. The game's so stagnant when you play a bunch of people who play the same damn thing-- and I think that's another reason why tonight was so much fun-- everyone gave up on their fucking Eldrazi decks now that they don't have their precious Eye of Ugin playsets to swing around anymore. There was way more variety and it was actually fun! I don't mind losing at all, because I still learned from the loss. I was pretty bummed to lose in that final round, but that's less because I didn't win and more because his deck was just the perfect kryptonite to mine so I couldn't even put up a good fight, so it was less exciting.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #192 on: April 09, 2016, 06:10:57 AM »
The worst part of all of this is that being arrogant about Magic is so fucking stupid, especially when you realize that a huge percentage of how well a deck works boils down to sheer luck. And when you talk up a huge arrogant game before a match and lose to bad luck, you look really stupid. But I've also noticed that these are some of the worst people to make theories and strategies with when it comes to cards too, because they're permanently stuck in netdecking mode where anything short of the best is bad.

I've heard people argue that Magic shouldn't be THAT luck-based because a good deck should be able to mitigate even relatively bad draws, and mastering the art of the mulligan should mean you rarely get bad draws. I'm not sure how right those people are, but it's certainly the case that the better player should win a vast, vast majority of the time in a vacuum, which means luck can't be a gigantic factor.

That said, the fact that any luck element exists at all means that some people will never, ever lose a game in their own minds. Every loss is just bad luck for them and/or good luck for their opponent as they chug along with easy mode netdecks, never learning anything and never graduating beyond mediocrity. People who know me personally know I'm talking less about Magic and more about a certain other tabletop game that I play, but that's true of Magic as well I'm sure. Losses to luck are absolutely possible and inevitable, but if you're blaming more than occasional losses on luck it probably means you're terrible.

I'd say "if you want wacky homemade decks try Commander", but every time I've seen other people playing Commander recently they've mostly just been using fucking netdecks, so maybe not. Netdecking is insane in a format that casual, but hey, you can't take the tryhard out of a tryhard. And of course Magic is a game for big shit motherfuckers, so even the super silly casual formats should be as cutthroat and devoid of creativity or fun as possible, right? Otherwise you're playing the game wrong!

By the way, did you know that goofuses call making their own decks "roguing" (or at least enough of them do on the internet that I've seen that term a few different places)? That might be the most ridiculous bit of terminology I've ever heard for anything. Like the concept of not netdecking is so foreign that you have to have a special word for it, and the implication is "I'm such a cool awesome rebel badass that I didn't even steal this decklist". :o
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #193 on: April 09, 2016, 06:33:33 AM »
It's called "playing the game the right way". Magic is, at its base level, an okay game. What makes it stand out to me and what makes it fun is that there are endless ways to play, countless strategies, tons of combos, and the potential for the game to be as unique as the player.

That's why I'm taking off my training wheels and want to make my own ideas from now on. There's so much variety to explore in the game and do much fun to be had with it, and a game is only worth being called good if it is fun. And if you ruin the variety and make it more than a game, and you're not having fun, you will always, always be the true loser, because you're depriving yourself and others of a good time with your boring decks and shitty unbeatable attitudes.

That said, I'm considering getting into commander for casual fun. I still haven't decided on who that commander should be, though. Elesh Norn seems really appealing, but it's so pricey and expensive mana-wise, too.

Iryan

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #194 on: April 09, 2016, 06:59:31 AM »
By the way, did you know that goofuses call making their own decks "roguing" (or at least enough of them do on the internet that I've seen that term a few different places)? That might be the most ridiculous bit of terminology I've ever heard for anything. Like the concept of not netdecking is so foreign that you have to have a special word for it, and the implication is "I'm such a cool awesome rebel badass that I didn't even steal this decklist". :o
That's a bit oversimplifying it. Proper rogue-decking, which is really only something you can do on competitive, tournament-level play, means analyzing the top decks in a supposedly well-explored, stagnant meta, then in secret building a deck that  is targetted specifically against (the most dominant of, or multiple of) the top tier decks. Then you bring it to the tournament where you (hopefully) destroy the competition through a combination of an anti-meta strategy and surprise factor.
A successful rogue deck will either become another netdeck afterwards (even though the lack of surprise factor might not even make it work that well anymore), or (and possibly in addition, after the first thing happens) cause the meta to shift in a way that makes the deck significantly less powerful. Through careful analytics and creativity, you actually break the meta.

It is much more than just "not using a netdeck". It is basically the holy grail of the Spikejohnny.
Now, if people say they are "rogueing" when they just mean "not using a netdeck", that is either presumptuous or uninformed. Or both.


...not that I would be playing in tournaments. Building one's own, personal decks, and then fielding them against others in friendly competition, is much more up my alley.  :V
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #195 on: April 09, 2016, 03:41:38 PM »

That said, I'm considering getting into commander for casual fun. I still haven't decided on who that commander should be, though. Elesh Norn seems really appealing, but it's so pricey and expensive mana-wise, too.
The prebuilt Commander decks are actually something resembling playable and competitive (unlike every other prebuilt deck they print), plus they come with a lot of material for building future decks. There's a lot of places that still have the 2014 monocolor decks in stock, the Forged in Stone one is probably something you'd enjoy. If you want to keep going with lifegain strategies, the Call the Spirits deck from 2015 gives you a lot of room to build around that.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #196 on: April 09, 2016, 04:02:11 PM »
It's called "playing the game the right way". Magic is, at its base level, an okay game. What makes it stand out to me and what makes it fun is that there are endless ways to play, countless strategies, tons of combos, and the potential for the game to be as unique as the player.

Personally I think that at its base level Magic is an outstanding game. It's not perfect (the mana system, for all of its upsides, has been rejected by and large by subsequent CCGs in favor of different systems that allow you to use any card as a resource and therefore mitigate bad draws), but it is fantastic. A lot of that has to do with the way it's been managed over the years, and even though there have been big and small missteps I think it mostly moves consistently forward. Anything moving consistently forward over that long of a timeframe is going to end up pretty solid. So while it's not technically my favorite game ever on paper (I think that would be Upper Deck's VS System, the original as opposed to the pathetic remake from last year) it is probably my favorite in reality.

That's why I'm taking off my training wheels and want to make my own ideas from now on. There's so much variety to explore in the game and do much fun to be had with it, and a game is only worth being called good if it is fun. And if you ruin the variety and make it more than a game, and you're not having fun, you will always, always be the true loser, because you're depriving yourself and others of a good time with your boring decks and shitty unbeatable attitudes.

Preaching to the choir, but yeah, that pretty much sums up my thoughts. I spend a lot of time thinking and talking about this with a lot of people, and that's basically all I've been able to come up with after 15 years of this.

That said, I'm considering getting into commander for casual fun. I still haven't decided on who that commander should be, though. Elesh Norn seems really appealing, but it's so pricey and expensive mana-wise, too.

Obviously you can pretty much play Commander however the fuck you want, but I would heavily caution against Elesh Norn. Here are some Commander baselines that you can choose to accept or ignore, but in my experience you'll have more fun if you try to work with them:

-Try to play a multicolor deck to cover the weaknesses of your colors. Or at least, don't play monowhite, monored, white/red, or probably red/green. They have the most weaknesses in Commander and can be extremely difficult to build correctly, especially for new players.

-Avoid playing an expensive commander (for me this means anything costing more than three or four, for most it's four or five), especially if it's extremely threatening like Norn is. Unless your entire deck is built around powering it out multiple times you'll probably only have the chance to cast it twice a game or so and it will probably tend to be a removal magnet so you won't be able to do much with it. Norn at least does something the moment she enters play so you'll usually get at least some value out of her, but mostly you'll get less from her than you will from a smaller, less obviously threatening commander.

-This is more of a personal/my playgroup thing and some people would strongly disagree with me on it, but I think the format works better if you avoid infinite combos. Or at least good infinite combos, especially if they use your commander as one of the components. A good Commander game is all about tempo, and nothing breaks the flow of the game and leads to a disappointing resolution like one person going "That's a nice epic struggle all you guys got, but oops I win out of nowhere in a non-interactive fashion". I'd say infinite combos are mildly frowned upon by the community as a whole. They're certainly legal and people certainly play them, but I don't find them to be a fun way to win or lose a Commander game.

It is much more than just "not using a netdeck". It is basically the holy grail of the Spikejohnny.
Now, if people say they are "rogueing" when they just mean "not using a netdeck", that is either presumptuous or uninformed. Or both.

Fair enough, but literally every time I've ever seen it used it's been in the context of "Check out this awesome deck I rogued for FNM tomorrow :derp:". It may have a legitimate use, but I don't think that's how it's widely used at this point. And there is no way to make it not the silliest terminology  ever.

The prebuilt Commander decks are actually something resembling playable and competitive (unlike every other prebuilt deck they print), plus they come with a lot of material for building future decks. There's a lot of places that still have the 2014 monocolor decks in stock, the Forged in Stone one is probably something you'd enjoy. If you want to keep going with lifegain strategies, the Call the Spirits deck from 2015 gives you a lot of room to build around that.

That's a great point that I neglected to call out because I take it as such a given at this point. Those decks are actually really solid. I would still caution against the monowhite one a little because it still has serious resource problems, but it would totally be worth the investment to pick up and try out, and if you do find that it badly needs more cardflow like most white decks you could always use it as a base to add more colors later for cheap.

I don't know what your grocery store situation looks like, but I believe you guys have at least some Meijer stores. Meijer in Michigan at least had this weird product for a while that was a repacked 2013 Commander deck with all of the superfluous stuff like the oversized cards and life die stripped out and with a shitty preconstructed deck thrown in for $20 for a while. I don't know if anyone still has those in stock, but they're like the best possible way to get into Commander if you can find them. And the full-price decks are all completely worth it too if you can't find the weird budget repacks.
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PX

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #197 on: April 11, 2016, 05:22:05 AM »
Went 2-2 today in a 10 man tourney, kind of mad because my 2 losses were from my opponents triple canceling my death blows and then luck sacking a perfect kill on me :|

Firestorm29

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #198 on: April 11, 2016, 07:41:37 PM »
Did a sealed Innistrad on Saturday. It was fun for the most part, kinda wish it was a bit faster (took 6 hours to get through 5 rounds and build decks.). I think it was an official torney since I received a number to register with.  Have to say, that was very interesting, especially since it forced me out of my comfort zone, making me go 3 colors (White/Blue/Green), and play a deck that focused around enchantments and auras and blue without any real counter spells.

I think I did OK, although I wound up getting eaten by a Jund deck that had pretty solid creatures. I was just too slow for that.  2 of my wins was kinda flukey due to one being a no show (of which the judge I think was peeved about) and the other was because the last guy I was up against was 1-3 at that point. Pretty sure the top 3 were all Jund, from what I've been hearing, it's a pretty strong deck for this set.

Here's what I wound up running:

1 Thraben Inspectot
2 Wicker Witch
1 Unruly Mob
1 Stern Constable
2 Hinterland Logger
1 Thraben Gargoyle
1 Loam Dryad
1 Furtive Homunculus
1 Niblis of Dusk

1 Strength of Arms
2 Gryff's Boon
1 Hope Against Hope
1 Geralf's Masterpiece
1 Jace's Scrutiny
1 Not Forgotten
1 Cryptolith Rite
1 Nahiri's Machinations
1 Bound by Moonsilver
1 Puncturing Light
1 Corrupted Grafstone
1 Chaplain's Blessing
1 Root Out

7 Plains
5 Islands
4 Forests
1 Westvale Abbey

I think I could have swapped out the Stern Constable with a Hermit of the Natterknolls and found some space for a Vessel of Ephemera. Also, found myself mana flooded quite a few times, which seemed to puzzle alot of people since I according to them 17 lands is supposed to be a good amount. Overall, I liked my first sealed tourney, but not seeing a whole lot of the new keywords like Madness (only pulled 3 out of 6 packs) and couldn't pulled together a theme that didn't have a better mana curve while maintaining any real decent theme. Liked some of the pulls I got like like that Ulvenwald Hydra and the Addey, just felt weird not really getting things like counters (onl got 1) or card draw. Guess that is how it goes, though. :)

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #199 on: April 13, 2016, 11:28:57 PM »
I decided to take a swing at making an Esper Faerie Control deck that's not Stupid Expensive-- though I'd like some thoughts on it before I start looking into investing in the more expensive pieces (most of which I have already, others I do not).

Deck revolves around flickering and fog for control, and Eldrazi Displacer and Essence Flux for the flickering. The faeries all have ETB effects that remove cards from opponent's hand (Thieving Sprite), counter spells (Spellstutter Sprite), tap down opponent lands and allow for a super quick casting of one of the first two faeries (Mistbind Clique), or let me search for more faeries (Faerie Harbinger). Reflector Mage can be flickered as well, of course.

So there's lots of removal and disruption involved, and I have Silence and Holy Day in there as well to essentially control the opponent's turn as well (with Grand Abolisher and Isochron Scepter in sideboard).

What do you think?

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #200 on: April 14, 2016, 05:06:44 AM »
Pestermite is a faerie that lets you tap or untap anything when it enters the battlefield and was really popular as part of an infinite combo with Splinter Twin until that got hit by the banstick; you should get some good mileage out of that and flicker effects.

I just did my first draft of Shadows over Innistrad; it's a rather interesting experience. Just from one go I like it more than I did drafting Battle/Oath simply because you aren't as solidly locked into strict archetypes; white-green alone has at least two completely different things it wants to be doing and just happen to overlap. I feel like Investigate is maybe a bit too powerful as a mechanic; it lets you set up early on with things like Thraben Inspector and then dump all your excess mana into drawing cards in the lategame.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #201 on: April 14, 2016, 02:17:55 PM »
After a fair amount of testing I kind of have a handle now on how my Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest deck works. It's incredibly slow to get going and remains pretty fragile throughout, but it can really close out games once it gets rolling. I think my best bet for improving it might be embracing the slowness and focusing on staying power rather than trying to make it faster.

I'm still having a lot of trouble with bad players just feeding people games in my group though. I won my first Mazirek game of last weekend from three life when everyone else at the table was above 30 because one of said terrible players tapped out to drop that global token and counter doubling enchantment right before my turn. Everyone warned her not to do it, she said she had a plan, then everyone died before she could enact her "plan". Turns out it was to gain four more life with Essence Warden than she would otherwise have on her  next turn. :V
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 02:19:26 PM by commandercool »
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #202 on: April 14, 2016, 02:59:39 PM »
After a fair amount of testing I kind of have a handle now on how my Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest deck works. It's incredibly slow to get going and remains pretty fragile throughout, but it can really close out games once it gets rolling. I think my best bet for improving it might be embracing the slowness and focusing on staying power rather than trying to make it faster.

I'm still having a lot of trouble with bad players just feeding people games in my group though. I won my first Mazirek game of last weekend from three life when everyone else at the table was above 30 because one of said terrible players tapped out to drop that global token and counter doubling enchantment right before my turn. Everyone warned her not to do it, she said she had a plan, then everyone died before she could enact her "plan". Turns out it was to gain four more life with Essence Warden than she would otherwise have on her  next turn. :V
The Mazirek deck I built relies on a lot of the BFZ Eldrazi for extra value since that's what I had when I was building the deck; I love Catacomb Sifter and Smothering Abomination in the deck since they give you a lot of card draw power. I'm also pretty fond of Fleshbag Marauder/Merciless Executioner and other stuff for forced sacrifice effects. I imagine once you have a Grave Pact and/or a Dictate of Erebos out you can clear out a board pretty fast (add Smokestacks if you don't care about losing friends)

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #203 on: April 14, 2016, 03:24:32 PM »
I play all of that except the Grave Pact variants, which were removed due to our very soft ban on anything with strong lockdown potential. I don't know why I still follow those rules since everyone else seems to have decided that they get to be the exception, but I do for now. And that means no Smokestack too obviously.

The problem with that strategy is that it requires a TON of moving pieces to work well. You need Mazireck himself, things to sacrifice (although they can be your opponent's things which helps), a way to sacrifice the things, and some things to rack up counters from the sacrifices. Those parts can overlap to a significant degree, but losing any one of them can leave the deck pretty impotent until it gets replaced. It's extemely vulnerable to disruption, although the payoff is so huge that it's worth working out.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #204 on: April 16, 2016, 12:23:19 AM »
It's been a while since I've been subject to a cheap ass infinite combo. Sigh. There's no fun in it.

PX

  • School Idol?
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #205 on: April 16, 2016, 01:31:57 AM »
It's been a while since I've been subject to a cheap ass infinite combo. Sigh. There's no fun in it.

Play Weiss, about the worst you'll see is getting hit 7 times by Unlimited Blade Works Shirou :D

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #206 on: April 16, 2016, 03:16:53 AM »
I don't think anyone around here plays that. It's mostly MtG or nothing.

commandercool

  • alter cool
Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #207 on: April 16, 2016, 04:09:26 AM »
Nobody around here plays it either, but that doesn't stop me from trying...
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #208 on: April 16, 2016, 05:29:47 AM »
There's shops in my vicinity that support a few other games like Weiss, Pokemon, YGO, Force of Will, and some more niche stuff like Netrunner and that Game of Thrones card game, but MTG has the most availability and flexibility.

Results of my draft tonight: 1-1-1 with RW aggro. Last match went to turns and ended in a draw when my opponent was at 1 life.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #209 on: April 18, 2016, 01:07:15 PM »
While I adjust my Esper Control/Flicker/Faerie deck so it actually works (it does not, because the mana curve is just too fucked), I am thinking about building a Tutelage deck instead. TAC, you mentioned this one to me, and I found a similar one:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-91-35-tix-modern-tutelage-turbo-fog
Revolves around constantly no-selling opponent turns with fog spells while card draw is sped up to mill them out

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-42-13-tix-marshmallow-tutelage
Revolves around turning opponent threats into being completely harmless, while milling them down and turning your enchantments into creatures with Starfield of Nyx (which I must add is a GORGEOUS card I must get a copy of even if I don't make this deck). (Anyone know where I can find a high res wallpaper of that, on another note?)


Anyway, I'm wondering which one would be more efficient, 'cause I wanna build at least one of them. What do you think?


(As for the Faerie deck, it just isn't efficient to run a bunch of 3/4 cost cards with a low manabase, but reducing the cards means I have fewer counters and so on. I'm slightly tweaking it to drop the fog and maybe Silence, as well as 2 of the Mistbind Cliques (tragic, because those were expensive cards), and just running 4 Faerie Harbinger to sniff them out when needed (and can be championed as needed as well). Instead, I'm thinking of dropping Telepathy in and putting in playsets of Despise and Duress to pick out counters and threats as I please. And Meddling Mage/Flickerwisp as well, to make things all the more frustrating. Maybe even an Oona that Harbinger can call up, if more fieldpower is needed? Being able to drop her against mono-color decks would be devastating,)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 01:21:15 PM by Matsuri »