Author Topic: Xbox 180: Now with DRM Backpedaling  (Read 29871 times)

Jmyster

  • Knives
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2013, 02:32:52 AM »
Stay classy Microsoft. At least you're still good for affordable PCs...mostly.

I do hope this has a large impact on their sales. Keeping our change is the only way to get it.

...though, since I never purchased the XBOX line (graduated to PC master race), I'll just grab the popcorn and shake my head disapprovingly.

DX7.EP

  • Red shroom
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  • Smooth Charisma
    • Sanmaat (site of personal tat)
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2013, 02:59:54 AM »
On slightly brighter news, X1 does use the Windows kernel, meaning Win8(.1), Windows Phone 8, and now  Xbox 1 will share common development kernel and ecosystem. Maybe it'll get people cracking at unlocking the full kernel on launch...
Alas MSFT hasn't really said much on integration with its other devices and systems.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 03:01:38 AM by クアッカ Legume Appraisal »
C:DOS> ayayaya.mid
Bad command or file name

C:>_

NekoNekoRex

  • Catgirls are Charming!
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  • Catgirl Enthusiast
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2013, 03:27:06 AM »
The point is, XBox One is a terrible acronym because now we know everyone fawning over it will be joked about as XBoners
This is now the best worst console for that fact alone
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Amraphenson

  • The problem is, you're a friend that likes to talk!
  • *
  • ...well, I am too!
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2013, 04:10:53 AM »
it already has monhun and bayonetta 2.
it already has me
Sugoiiii~
[23:02] <~Iced> You have sown the seeds of your own destruction Amra.
[23:20] <Stuffman> enjoy your personally crafted hell Amra

Mesarthim

  • Oh no, which direction should I move?
  • Clumsy
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2013, 04:31:09 AM »
Well I never really had much interest in Microsoft consoles since the beginning.

Even less so if they release some facts where they shoot themselves in the foot.

Hard 1cc: 4 (LLS), 6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW)13 (TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)
Lunatic 1cc: 8 (IN), 9 (PoFV), 11 (SA), 12.8 (GFW), 14 (DDC)
Extra Clear: 4 (LLS) ,5 (MS) ,6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW),13(TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)

NekoNekoRex

  • Catgirls are Charming!
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  • Catgirl Enthusiast
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2013, 06:27:35 AM »
it already has monhun and bayonetta 2.
it already has me
you mean the Wii U?
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Amraphenson

  • The problem is, you're a friend that likes to talk!
  • *
  • ...well, I am too!
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2013, 06:29:33 AM »
oops forgot to properly quote.
but yes the WiiU has me. not xbone.
Sugoiiii~
[23:02] <~Iced> You have sown the seeds of your own destruction Amra.
[23:20] <Stuffman> enjoy your personally crafted hell Amra

Mesarthim

  • Oh no, which direction should I move?
  • Clumsy
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2013, 07:37:05 AM »

Hard 1cc: 4 (LLS), 6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW)13 (TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)
Lunatic 1cc: 8 (IN), 9 (PoFV), 11 (SA), 12.8 (GFW), 14 (DDC)
Extra Clear: 4 (LLS) ,5 (MS) ,6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW),13(TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)

Re: Xbox One
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2013, 07:54:43 AM »
In case anyone missed the stream, here it is summed up in less than 2 minutes.

JT

Re: Xbox One
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2013, 08:16:25 AM »
In case anyone missed the stream, here it is summed up in less than 2 minutes.
I'll do you one better: 9 seconds

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
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  • blub blub nya
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2013, 08:42:27 AM »

DX7.EP

  • Red shroom
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  • Smooth Charisma
    • Sanmaat (site of personal tat)
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2013, 03:51:09 PM »
Over at Anandtech, a detailed preliminary Xbox 1 vs. PS4 hardware analysis.

PS4's internals are definitely more catered to game performance, but the XOne's definitely more power-friendly and thus has some more uses outside just games.
C:DOS> ayayaya.mid
Bad command or file name

C:>_

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2013, 06:57:56 PM »
I laughed so hard at this thread and everything that's linked to it that I've never been less conflicted at the dilemme "will I buy that console".

The anser is obviously that I will buy it because I hate the idea of having a console that can play games; I prefer having a bunch of creepy useless functions and other amazing features than, you know, being able to play stuff that isn't sports or Halo. I mean, what kind of loser still plays games...?

Amraphenson

  • The problem is, you're a friend that likes to talk!
  • *
  • ...well, I am too!
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2013, 07:21:57 PM »
/v/ has united. the day is golden.
Sugoiiii~
[23:02] <~Iced> You have sown the seeds of your own destruction Amra.
[23:20] <Stuffman> enjoy your personally crafted hell Amra

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
  • *
  • Of Floating Eyeballs?
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2013, 07:28:55 PM »
To be fair to Microsoft, used games being re-sold is pretty bad for the industry, as the developers and publishers get none of the money for that sale, and it denies them the sale from a new copy. It may be the developers twisting MS's wrist there.

Please don't kill me verbally for giving reasoning as to why this may not be Microsoft's fault.

I think it'll go like this:
Want a gaming machine? PS4.
More than gaming? XBox
WiiU? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA [It's already failing BEFORE the competition comes out...]

Of course, PC Gaming Master Race represent.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 07:32:13 PM by Raikaria »


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I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2013, 07:32:31 PM »
To be fair to Microsoft, used games being re-sold is pretty bad for the industry, as the developers and publishers get none of the money for that sale, and it denies them the sale from a new copy. It may be the developers twisting MS's wrist there.

Practically every other industry on the planet has to deal with "used" products.  Books, CDs, movies, cars, clothes, tools, you name it.

This is greed, not necessity.  Pure and simple.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2013, 07:34:11 PM »
Just look at how VCRs are KILLING HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
  • *
  • Of Floating Eyeballs?
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2013, 07:49:21 PM »
Where did I ever call it necessity? No, I was only stating a reason, and never said it was a good one.

Also, don't liken the movie industry to games.

Movies:
Cinema [Pay-per-veiw]
DVD/Box Office TV
Finally free TV channels with the makers being paid by the TV channel out of their AD revenues.

Games only have one stream of income, one phase where the developers are paid. Being sold at a shop.

Also don't liken it to books and such.

Budget and investment in books is a lot smaller. Costs are paid back on the cost of the ink ect which is factored into the initial purchase. It dosen't cost bookwriters tons to come up with an idea and write it down. It does cost a lot to employ a large team to animate a game, test, program, ect, ect, ect.

Same with clothing. The initial purchase price covers the variable costs mainly. It's a lot easier to cover costs that way when a large amount of your costs are based on per-unit of production.

You can't attribute the costs in game development as a direct cost of each sale, they are not variable costs. You have to decide the price bracket based on an estimation of sales to cover your fixed costs. Pre-owned games can destroy this.  The total cost of game development is almost the same if you sell 1,000 or 1,000,000 units. The total cost of printing 1,000,000 books is far, far larger the total costs of 1,000.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 07:55:01 PM by Raikaria »


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2013, 07:56:19 PM »
Games only have one stream of income, one phase where the developers are paid. Being sold at a shop.

This is wrong, but even if it were true, that still puts the onus on the devs and studios to expand and find other ways to sell. What you do with something you bought, and now own, as your own property, is your own god-damned business.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
  • *
  • Of Floating Eyeballs?
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2013, 08:00:37 PM »
Well, yes, they can be sold online and expansion packs and everything, but still, games do not go through phases like the movie industry. About as close as they get to that price discrimination is if the price lowers a few months after launch... but that may just be because the game is older and has to lower in price to remain competitive.

A movie will generally remain on the Silver Screen for quite a while, until people stop going to see it. Since that income stream is dried up, it moves down to DVD, ect, ect. You can't re-sell a cinema experience. [Well, not legally] Once DVD sales start to dry up, it moves onto TV.

The exception being seasonal targets, of course, such as having a DVD out for XMas.



http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Re: Xbox One
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2013, 08:08:08 PM »
Where did I ever call it necessity? No, I was only stating a reason, and never said it was a good one.

Also, don't liken the movie industry to games.

Movies:
Cinema [Pay-per-veiw]
DVD/Box Office TV
Finally free TV channels with the makers being paid by the TV channel out of their AD revenues.

Games only have one stream of income, one phase where the developers are paid. Being sold at a shop.

Also don't liken it to books and such.

Budget and investment in books is a lot smaller. Costs are paid back on the cost of the ink ect which is factored into the initial purchase. It dosen't cost bookwriters tons to come up with an idea and write it down. It does cost a lot to employ a large team to animate a game, test, program, ect, ect, ect.

Same with clothing.

You can't attribute the costs in game development as a direct cost of each sale, they are not variable costs. You have to decide the price bracket based on an estimation of sales. Pre-owned games can destroy this.
Pre-owned sales do still support you as they increase retail sales, people can and are more willing to spend more on games if they can recoup some of that cost.

games have other monetization besides retail:
DLC/ microtransactions
subscription fees
in game advertising
merchandise

Developers are paid before any sale takes place, and are often sacked before the game hits retail !!! (unless you are selling alpha access i.e. minecraft)
Retail sales are to recoup the investment of the publisher, and pay royalties (for outsourced actors, music and game engines).

BT

  • I never talk to you
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  • People say that I should
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2013, 09:05:11 PM »

triangles

  • gotta stock up on dark matter
  • each pound of which weighs over 10,000 pounds
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2013, 09:56:39 PM »
welp :V

JT

Re: Xbox One
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2013, 11:54:28 PM »
All of this news has made me go from not wanting to buy an Xbox One to not wanting anyone to buy one.

Aya Reiko

  • Humans are scary!
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2013, 03:56:16 AM »
Now this is one angry rant about this console.
Another angry rant. One of the best parts starts practically at the beginning.

My bets the hacker/modder community hacks the thing within a month.

LadyScarlet

  • Too lazy to make this a gif right now
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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2013, 04:15:47 AM »
*reads about used games fee*

Isn't it ironic how attempts to stop piracy only cause more piracy? I mean, you got SOPA, SimCity and now this. If you wanna put DRM in your game-- heck, even your console-- at least make it like EarthBound, the one example of DRM done right.
My Youtube Channel. I mostly upload Hisoutensoku videos.

NekoNekoRex

  • Catgirls are Charming!
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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2013, 04:18:01 AM »
That should be seriously illegal. Didn't they make a law with the sole intent of preventing this (the first sale doctrine)
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Aya Reiko

  • Humans are scary!
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2013, 04:59:41 AM »
Jim Sterling's take on it

Is there anyone not ripping this to shreds?  Well, aside from the M$ asskissers?

notverycreative

  • The coldest chill,
  • in the emptiness of reason.
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2013, 06:27:08 AM »
That's just creepy. I hope this bombs worse than the Virtual Boy.

Quote
All of this news has made me go from not wanting to buy an Xbox One to not wanting anyone to buy one.
Seriously! It's a good thing none of my friends or family want one. If Gamestop has one set up, I'm staying the hell away from it and will start ordering games online. Well, maybe Play-N-Trade won't have one, since they're more focused on retro stuff. I'll probably end up becoming a retro gamer, anyway. I've been gaming for so long that I don't feel like I can adjust to this new age.
I need an option, a reason, and some hope.

Mesarthim

  • Oh no, which direction should I move?
  • Clumsy
Re: Xbox One
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2013, 06:37:33 AM »
Another angry rant. One of the best parts starts practically at the beginning.

My bets the hacker/modder community hacks the thing within a month.

Yeah I just finished watching that within the last hour. Now really this isn't of much concern to me since I've never been an xbox gamer. However these days I do not buy a console until quite awhile after its release for either better models, price drops, and general "did they screw it all to hell or is it safe" stuff. I'm the Sony/Playstation sort but I didn't get a PS3 until a few years after its release and I'm in no real rush for a Vita (a market microsoft isn't really touching, I don't count phone games if they're doing that).

These days the indie / doujin gaming market is just so much more fun with pretty much no artificial restrictions placed upon you to play those games.

Hard 1cc: 4 (LLS), 6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW)13 (TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)
Lunatic 1cc: 8 (IN), 9 (PoFV), 11 (SA), 12.8 (GFW), 14 (DDC)
Extra Clear: 4 (LLS) ,5 (MS) ,6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW),13(TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)