Daily Touhou Best Topic Round 2 Part 3

[Seppo Hovi]

PCB. No contest.

[ふねん1]

Esu is seemingly presenting this question in two parts, so I'll answer in two parts. :V

Subjectively, I like SA's scoring system the most. It's very, very challenging, but gives some pretty noticeable increases in score whenever you add in a new technique. Despite this, the best routes will still see you trying to capture some stuff normally (and not just because you've maxed out the multiplier, mind you), meaning you'll be tested on some really hard attacks just like you would in a survival run.

However, the one that's most sound is probably MoF's system. It's relatively simple at its core (as in there aren't a whole lot of things you need to keep track of) and greatly emphasizes survival, especially on Spellcards. Chaining has been tried and tested on actual arcade shooters to great effect, and while MoF's works a bit differently due to the bombs, the chaining part still works.

[Zil]

@K.B. I can't say I fully understand the scoring, but yes, it's pretty much luckshit. I think reflecting spirits may be more important than chaining, and I can at least say that as I got better at the game my average score per run increased from around 30mil to 50mil, so it's not completely random. But anyway, I like it because it's fun, not because it makes sense or is reliable in any way. I'd rather play through that game a few times hoping I get a good score (and having a shitload of fun while I'm at it) than memorize a bunch of stuff in a game I think is boring to get a score I don't even care about.

[DeltaSierra4]

PCB. No contest.

I'll second this.

[チソウ タイゼン]

PC-98: What's scoring?
EoSD is too simple.
PCB is too complicated.
IN is too what the fuck.
MoF is too LET'S RESTART ON STAGE SIX BECAUSE HOW DARE KANAKO TARNISH THIS NO-DEATH RUN
SA is very fun, but makes me die too much.
UFO is very fun, but makes me die too much.
TD is just no.

SA/UFO, then. Maybe UFO because of it's versatility.
Maybe SA because grazing is super fun.

Aaaah, I can't decide~

[I have no name]

Mountain of Faith

[Paper Conan]

I always aim for no-death runs and fuck grazing, so MoF for me.  :derp:

[K.B.]

Zil: fair enough.

I'll have to pay more attention to spirits with regard to score.  Not sure how to test how much you get from destroying a spirit, but there certainly seems to be a marked increase in cancel-able bullets as soon as there's any mass destruction of spirits, so there're probably points to be had by canceling those as well as the actual spirit-destruction.  In that vein, I'll have to toy with spamming lvl2s in early rounds to see if that increases the cancel-able bullets (and perhaps spirits) on my side.


Edit: nevermind.  PoDD chaining is the worst thing and I'm not touching this game after I finish my hard 1ccs.  My z finger is too valuable to me to get some repetitive strain injury over a poorly designed game.

Edit 2: ok not necessarily poorly designed, but certainly pain-inducing.  Venting.

[Karisa]

In no particular order, here's a long post that I'm not sure who will even read:

IN's is somewhat interesting, but I wouldn't say it's the best.
MoF's is fun since you don't have to do that much to score. However, that also makes watching the world records not as interesting for the exact same reason. Also death = failure is annoying.
EoSD's is strange (bombing for canceled bullets?).
PCB's is fun but also confusing just because there's so much going on (instead of one main gimmick to focus on plus collecting point items at full value). And I'm not really a fan of the way unfocusing is nearly always better than focusing.
MS's is too simple (and heavily biased toward Mima), basically just survival plus collecting point items, though it's fun to get a score with letters in it.
LLS's seems to be primarily memorizing the best places to bomb for point items (which I never bothered learning).
SoEW's is luck-based depending on how many point items you can collect at maximum value.
HRtP's is somewhat interesting, but it's also the best way to play for survival, and trivializes the game more than TD.
SA I've never really tried scoring in, though graze auto-collect is fun.
UFO's is incredibly high-risk-high-reward. There's so many different ways things can go wrong, but when everything goes right, the points really start coming in... Probably my favorite to watch, but not my favorite to play (except maybe in Extra).
TD's is completely broken, and the result isn't even as fun as bombing through everything could be, since your resources are too strict.

In conclusion: I have no idea.

Also I second the vote for all the previous scoring systems at the same time (with adjustments so they all have some effect, and also limit the negatives like MoF's dying penalty and TD's bomb trivializing). As long as the limits are also removed, so it doesn't just max out at 999990 x 9.99 then crash when you summon a UFO.

[Zodiac]

PCB. No contest.

Third.

[chirpy13]

Third.

Fourth. I honestly can't think of anything I dislike about PCB's scoring.  It encourages unfocused movement (never a bad thing to get used to), has hardly any milking at all outside of borders, doesn't completely trash your run if you die once or twice, has plenty of depth and planning... And to quote Heartbeam: "PCB's grazing sound is like no other.  It's really soothing when you stand by a stream of bullets."  That tktktk really adds a lot to the enjoyability to it for me, however silly that may sound.  Stage 4 grazing is such a beautiful thing...

I also like LLS and MoF's systems though!  LLS is quite simple - collect the items, graze when you can, use up your bombs to collect items for double value, use up your lives for more bombs.  It rewards good survival by giving you more room for suicides/bombing, and unlike games with similar systems (EoSD), there's hardly any milking involved with it.  MoF is cool because it focuses pretty heavily on survival.  Don't die and you'll get a good score.  It can get pretty aggravating if you're going out of your way for high scores, but if you just play it for the sake of playing it's quite fun.  And very encouraging since your scores will increase proportionately to your skills.  I sorta like IN's solo human system too, since for the most part it's just simple no-focus survival.  I really despise team and solo youkai scoring in IN though - too much milking.

Other games... As much as I love them, I'm not really into scoring for them.  I'd probably like UFO's if it weren't so strict with UFO chaining, and TD's if it were more like what Nereid's doing to it.

[Chuckolator]

Time for another question.

What is your favourite spell card from Great Fairy Wars?

Freezing mechanic makes for awesome spell cards, and it's a shame they don't get the recognition that the main games do. A lot of my favourites are from this one, but I'd say my favourite is Luna Child's version of "Three Fairies". So intimidating and so much fun, even on Easy.

[Zil]

This is the most difficult question that has been asked so far, in my opinion. There are a ton of spells and so many of them are great. In general I think Sunny Milk's are my favorites, but choosing just one is impossible for me.

[DeltaSierra4]

I like Luna Child's Wall break for some reason. Maybe it's the pattern that I like

[SuccinctAndPunchy]

Open Universe, because of it's power for trolling those who attempt to No Ice the Extra Stage.

[I have no name]

Can I just say "all the ones that aren't stupid"?

If not, then probably Three Fairies because I don't remember too many others at the moment.

P.S. I have a question in mind for the next one so no one snipe it with some lame PC-98 question

[BT]

I also have a question ready, if this is a thing. :V

I like Sunny's maze spell. Yeah, I know, it isn't even close to ~dodging~, but it's really neat and I like milking it for motivation.

[Esper]

P.S. I have a question in mind for the next one so no one snipe it with some lame PC-98 question

Hey some people like those games more than a few of the Windows Series games :V

Can I just say "all the ones that aren't stupid"?

I want to say that as well.

[I have no name]

What is your favorite ultra patch?

You know, those things so utterly full of undodgable garbage, but also some really fun added challenges.  Mine would probably be PCB, by virtue of *not* having a broken final spellcard, while still being fun through the rest of it (except Youmu's last nonspell.  That's broken but technically doable.)  Mountain on Faith's would be a lot more fun...except for Virtue of Wind Wall God.  Honorable mention to the GFW ultra patch for being ironically easier than the main game on normal.

_{^{23 hours is totally enough time}}

[SuccinctAndPunchy]

Shoot The Bullet.

10-6 on Ultra is sheer hilarity.

I remember TAS'ing that with Hourglass, and I just could not keep a straight face while playing just because of how bat-shit insane it is!

You have to dodge unfocused through bubble bullets that overlap so much that you can't tell where you are, you have to navigate either via rote or following the path of the white lights off the bubble bullets because of the sheer density of it all, it's the most insane, cruel and sadistic maze I've ever seen.

I have not had that much enjoyment out of something totally impossible than from playing that scene.

I might not be in the spirit of the question since I played it with tools but whatever, it amused me and continues to. So it wins. Nyeh.

[Buu]

I haven't really played around much with the Ultras other than a few Extra Stages but TD is so nuts it's fun again. Especially Mamizou.

[Random]

SA

wee walls

[Esper]

Shoot the Bullet.

[Zil]

Yeah, Shoot the Bullet. You can just avoid the scenes that become stupid, and the good ones are really good. The main games' ultra patches seem horrendous to me.

[Esper]

Yay my question!

Which character do you think has the best ability?

To me I think Sakuya Izayoi for her ability to duplicate items and abuse time.

[チソウ タイゼン]

........I was gonna answer Hong Meiling, as a joke, but then I had to think about whether or not she had an ability.

[Zil]

Passing through walls, woooo~

[Chuckolator]

Passing through walls, woooo~

Seiga Kaku likes this.

[MMX]

Favourite ultra patch: The only one i've tried was the one for TD, and it's pretty fun. Applied to normal mode it makes game much more fun like it should be.On hard and lunatic it becomes pretty ridiculous at times, though some cards in spell practice are still fun.

Best ability: Satori :3

[DeltaSierra4]

In terms of power, I'd go with Flandre's ability, with Sakuya and Reisen as close second and third. In terms of how cool the ability is, I'd go with Satori, with Sakuya and Remilia as second and third.