"Placeholder Sign [I can't think of a name]" (Spell Card Help Topic IV)

[Zil]

Bomb for UFOs in stage 4. You can't afford to miss those things.

Also, I really have to say that I think maxing out your bomb stock is insane. You're just begging to die with unused bombs unless you throw them at eveything with no attempt at dodging whatsoever. The advantage of having lives instead is that when you run out of bombs, you can attempt to capture things that might normally be somewhat risky. Instead of thinking of extra lives as lives, you can think of them as "auto-bombs." Once you're out of real bombs you can try to capture everything at no cost, because getting hit is sure to cost no more than that one life. That's why an extra life with no bombs is better than a bomb. If you're hit while you have the extra life, the extra life automatically protects you, so you just try to dodge. If you're hit with a bomb, it's lost, so you need to use them in advance. This is the primary reason why lives are better than bombs. Add in the fact that you get more total resources out of red UFOs in the first place and that seals the deal. Red is better than green. Period.

[I have no name]

Bombs deal damage.
Deaths don't, in fact, they lower your damage by lowering your power.

[Zil]

There shoudn't be many spells so difficult that they would kill you again after you already died. Deaths clear the screen and give you some free shots. For the true nightmares, such as some of Shou's stuff, you can simply plan to have a bomb for it. Even when collecting reds you still have more bombs than lives. Loss of power doesn't make much of a difference.

[MMX]

Oh man. I never played UFO (and not planning to do it in near future) But i think doing a no-bombs run of it would be interesting :3 (And considering the ammounts of lives you can get it might be the easiest no-bombs ever)

[BT]

No, it wouldn't be the easiest no-bombs ever.

 :wat:

[xForeverFanaticx]

:\ I see your logic there Zil~ Thanks ^^

Can somebody explain Ichirin's last spell? I get that it's lasers from the eyes, and then the fists are on the same level as you are, so misdirect them. But I can't read the lasers well enough... @@

Also, I think I'd consider destroying UFOs the same as bombing if I were to ever try a no-bomb run.

[I have no name]

No, it wouldn't be the easiest no-bombs ever.

 :wat:

It was a pretty easy one.
No, seriously.  I did it, died FOURTEEN times, but still 1cced...with 2 lives to spare.  and I could have probably gotten 1 more.

[MTSranger]

If you're hit with a bomb, it's lost, so you need to use them in advance. This is the primary reason why lives are better than bombs. Add in the fact that you get more total resources out of red UFOs in the first place and that seals the deal. Red is better than green. Period.

There shoudn't be many spells so difficult that they would kill you again after you already died. Deaths clear the screen and give you some free shots. For the true nightmares, such as some of Shou's stuff, you can simply plan to have a bomb for it.

Well, maybe for you, cuz you actually can dodge the stuff for more than a few seconds. I've tried many times. I can't
On every one of Ichirin's cards I tend to die twice if I don't bomb, seriously!
Same for most of Murasa, and Shou, and even Kogasa, not to mention Byakuren.
Thus, how far I get actually depends deeply on how many cards I can bomb through.
6 red UFO = 3 lives = 6 bombs and 3 chance to dodge stuff
6 green UFO = 8 bombs.
Given that I can't clear a lot of the cards with 1 death, 3 lives simply means 6 bombs.
So, for example, I go for all green UFOs in stages 3, 5, 6 so that I can bomb my way through the boss in a 1cc run.
The red UFOs are there to protect against random deaths, otherwise I'll have no room for error.

Even when collecting reds you still have more bombs than lives. Loss of power doesn't make much of a difference.

SanaeB :V
Not everyone is good enough for ReimuA.
I completely fail stages with her, while I can actually do pretty well with SanaeB and collect lots of UFOs.

[xForeverFanaticx]

Speaking of players and stuff, I can't seem to find a TH12 player shot/bomb analysis O: I'm hoping mainly for a shot analysis, cuz I want a few things cleared up.

Like I notice that shotgunning with SanaeB unfocused is stronger than focused, implying that the shot unfocused is stronger(probably, or the basic shot is weakened significantly), and also that SanaeA's focused shot isn't *too* much stronger than unfocused, implying that though the shots are faster and more plentiful, they are weaker as well(or, again, the basic shot is weakened).

About the life vs bombs... you need 5 life pieces to make 1 life...

okay here's a situation(yours from before):

3 Red UFOs = 6 life pieces = 1 life total at least = 3 bombs total at least
From that, you have 3 bombs and one chance to dodge stuff, as you say. Once you die, you gain another 2 bombs. That totals to... 3+1+2=6 screenclears/invincibilities.

3 Green UFOs = 3 Full bombs and 3 bomb pieces = 3 bombs + 6/5 bomb = total 4 bombs at least

that means that according to the uttermost basic data, if both situations began with 0 lives and 0 bombs, you would end with either 6 chances before game over or 4 chances before game over. However, that is given that you actually bomb when you should.

So, looking at this random thing I suddenly typed up, I realize myself that Red UFOs are more valuable in the long run IF you allow yourself a certain liberty of bombing. In the shorter run, green UFOs would be better, but they would go to waste with the extra bombs wasted with death. 1 life is basically equal to 3 chances of survival (2 bombs, one screen clear), while 1 bomb is just equal to... well, 1 bomb.

EDIT: by wasted bombs with death, I mean the 2 you'd gain from dying with 0 bombs in stock (or the 1 you'd gain from dying with 1).

About Ichirin's spells... do you know the "proper" way of capturing them?

[Zil]

I think you got your numbers wrong there. You need four fragments for a life and three for a bomb.

6 red UFOs = 12 fragments = 3 lives and the 6 bombs that come with them.
That's a total of 9 resources, 3 of which "take effect" automaticaly for you, meaning you don't risk unnecessary use, though they are not as strong.

6 green UFOs = 6 bombs and 6 fragments = 8 bombs
That's a total of 8 resources.

So it's like Kanon said, basically.

Then there's another factor which I forgot to mention:
If you fail to fill a red UFO, you get a life fragment, so the UFO's "output" is only half.
If you fail to fill a green UFO, you get a bomb fragment, which is a quarter of the ideal output.
So summoning a green and failing to fill it gives you crap, while I believe a red is still worth it even if you know you can't fill it, such as right before the boss appears.

I suppose that if you really die more than once to many spells, you'll want to collect greens. Hopefully practicing spells can remedy that but okay, I'll concent that bombs are fine. Plus SanaeB has lower shot damage than Reimu and a stronger/versatile bomb, so whatever then.

About Ichirin's spells.
First one - Just dodge and try to follow her.
Second one - Memorize where the first appear from. From there it's just a matter of avoiding the bullets while dealing with the fists.
Thirs one - Misdirect the fists and doge the lasers. There is a tiny point of safety between the fists which I find pretty easy to use, since you then don't have to worry about misdircting. Of course, you have to make sure no laser is going throught there.

[MTSranger]

About the life vs bombs... you need 5 life pieces to make 1 life...

It's 4 pieces. Otherwise everybody will just go for all bombs.
We've had this discussion before. I'm not sure why there are still people thinking 5 pieces.

About Ichirin's spells... do you know the "proper" way of capturing them?

Of course! It's not that the way I'm approaching them is wrong. It's just that I'm not good enough :V
King Kraken Strike - dodge and pray. Seriously, even my VoWG capture rate is higher than this.
2nd card - go where the fist isn't obviously. Circle clockwise or counter clock wise depending on wave. I can't read those round glowy bullets that fast though (the fists are kinda fast, even if you stay really far away from them), and I tend to die because of that.
Lazors - dodge between the fists lol. Still, that doesn't mean you don't need to read lasers - and I fail at that. If I read the laser successfully, I will survive for a while, but since the spell has so much health, I eventually get killed by the red glowy bullets that build up. I've one-deathed this thing before, but that's only because of reading lasers correctly - something that I mess up often enough.

For a lot of those spells, I can 1-death if I'm lucky, but it doesn't happen often enough for me to trust red UFOs for them.
It's much safer imo, in a 1cc run, to just stock up a few bombs and bomb them away. I can now capture the nonspells anyways, so no worry.

[I have no name]

I'm not sure why there are still people thinking 5 pieces.

SA life fragments are 5 to a life.  Honestly I thought the same was true for UFO for a while.

[xForeverFanaticx]

Oh. I. seriously. never. realized. that. My bad ^^

Meh aaaanyway, I need help with Most Valuable Vajra. Yes, Shou. Urggggg. Damn spell has me praying every time.

[Zengeku]

Most Valuable Vajra. The Normal version I assume? Well, notice that pentagram thing that follows your position? They indicate where the lasers will move. However, this information really isn't that relevant. I suggest sitting under Shou for as long as you can. Then as the green laser makes it closer, start circling around the screen (i don't remember if the circling direction is different on the EZ-Normal version) and keep an eye on the bullets fired by Shou.

Practice it more. Its one of those cards that seems insurmountable until you get the approach down.

[Piranha]

A few questions concerning Marisa(IN Normal):
Is Marisa's second nonspell static?
Any advice for Milky Way and Earth Light Ray?

 

[I have no name]

Marisa's second nonspell is static based on Marisa's position.
Milky way is just dodge.
Earth Light Ray...I'm horribly inconsistent at this.

[xForeverFanaticx]

Earth Light Ray...I'm horribly inconsistent at this.

I hate the little aimed volley of stars she shoots at you @@ idk how it is on hard/lunatic, but it's annoying on Normal...

About Most Valuable Vajra. Yes normal version
Circling is clockwise on Normal. And is there a certain distance that's good between 2 pentagrams? This might be confusing to explain... What I mean basically is when the lasers home into your positions, is there a recommended distance to put between the 2 laser's positions? Cause the rotating of the lasers is hellish sometimes and sometimes easy due to the space between the lasers varying.

[I have no name]

I hate the little aimed volley of stars she shoots at you @@ idk how it is on hard/lunatic, but it's annoying on Normal...

About Most Valuable Vajra. Yes normal version
Circling is clockwise on Normal. And is there a certain distance that's good between 2 pentagrams? This might be confusing to explain... What I mean basically is when the lasers home into your positions, is there a recommended distance to put between the 2 laser's positions? Cause the rotating of the lasers is hellish sometimes and sometimes easy due to the space between the lasers varying.

Hard/lunatic version is called shoot the moon and is entirely streaming.  Completely trivial.

Most Valuable Vajra I always just ran around the screen, not caring about damage except right at the start.  basically any bomb ends the attack though.

[xForeverFanaticx]

God. So many lives. And I managed UFO Normal again

Only problem was with Most Valuable Vajra, Murasa's Survival Spell, and the fact that I didn't bomb as liberally towards the end (starting at St. Nikou's Air Scroll)

Other than that, it's was really good~ Captured a lot of spells that have been giving me trouble (and derped St Nikou's Air Scroll @@)
Almost captured Flying Fantastica, about 1 and a half cm of HP left and then I died. . _ . luckily, I started bombing again there.


EDIT:

AAAAAAHHHHHHH crap. ; ~ ; Died just near the end with both SanaeB and MarisaB...(yes, I like to vary my characters~ :3)

at least I almost survived that annoying nonspell where she circles the screen O: still hate it and the nonspell before it too @@

A few questions...

1) For Byakuren's first spellcard, it's safer to be directly below her rather than at an angle, right?
2) Star Maelstrom, better to do vertical caps, or horizontal caps?
3) St Nikou's Air Scroll. I understand it's static, right? I just can't seem to remember the correct spot that has the opening where I can squeeze out (it's probably about the size of a bullet, the opening I mean)... anybody care to help me with remembering?
4) Flying Fantastica. Do vertical most often, or just go with it as it comes? (as in, stay fairly underneath Byakuren, or just dodge for your life?)

[Puffy]

Advice Scarlet Gensokyo on Lunatic? And Remi's non-spell where she fires bullets-bubbles-fireballs consecutively, the bubble part especially the others are capable enough, its just the bubbles, streaming left/right does no work like hard mode

Scarlet Gensokyo and Meister seems almost impossible without bombs because there's always that situation where you get walled with a massive storm of bullets.

 

1) For Byakuren's first spellcard, it's safer to be directly below her rather than at an angle, right?
2) Star Maelstrom, better to do vertical caps, or horizontal caps?
3) St Nikou's Air Scroll. I understand it's static, right? I just can't seem to remember the correct spot that has the opening where I can squeeze out (it's probably about the size of a bullet, the opening I mean)... anybody care to help me with remembering?
4) Flying Fantastica. Do vertical most often, or just go with it as it comes? (as in, stay fairly underneath Byakuren, or just dodge for your life?)

1) For normal, it is possible to stay under her, so that will work, and will not be difficult, but on higher difficulties (hard mode and beyond), angle is most preferable.
2) Imo, I generally i think horizontal for dodging stars and vertical for dodging lasers.
3) - Not sure.
4) Can't remember.

Here's a Replay for Question 1 and 2.

[I have no name]

Remilia's last nonspell, bubble phase:
Every time you hear the sound, tap the direction you're streaming in.  I find this easier if I'm hugging the bottom and holding down.
Scarlet Gensoyko...dodge.  Pray you don't get walled.

[Zil]

1.) I don't see why you wouldn't just stay under her. On any difficulty moving over won't make much difference and you of course won't be hitting her as much.
2.) Both work. Personally I prefer all vertical because it ends faster. Try to choose a method and stick with it though. Don't dance around all over the place.
3.) I'm pretty sure it's not static.
4.) Again, don't fly around like crazy. Stay under Byakuren and use lots of vertical movement.

Remi's bubbles - Yeah, it's just streaming on any difficulty. Just practice a bit.

[BT]

(About Remilia's nonspell:)

It seems different on Lunatic when it's not, simply because the streaming is a lot faster.

Like IHNN said, tap to each sound she makes. That seems to work. It's a pretty fast pace.

[Byaaakuren]

For Star Maelstrom, I find it easier to shotgun her at the beginning then do vertical movements to avoid the stars. The card usually ends very quickly for me

[xForeverFanaticx]

:\ well, I have a clear with one of each character (as in, 1 reimu, 1 marisa, 1 sanae). But I just can't damn do Kogasa's spells in Extra... @@ her first spell is pretty easy for me, but the others are plain annoying... Second spell I need to un focus for a lot of it, right? Try not to be pushed to a side? Third spell, I just can't predict or read fast enough at all... is the final placement of the lasers static to the origin of the lasers? Cuz if they are, I need to study and keep an eye on Kogasa more and more...

[Zengeku]

The second one is based around anticipating the paths of the bullets coming from the side which can prove tricky. Try to predict their paths as they come in on you and position youself in the spots offering the best chances. There aren't really any tricks to it afaik aside from getting better at it. Unfocused movements can work to your advantage if you spot a way to quickly move around a cluster of bullets instead of moving through them. And yeah, try not to get pushed to the side.

The third one is just a matter of reaction time but I can recommend following the lasers as they are stopping, making sure not to run straight into it as it turns on but stopping in the gap between the lasers. That approach made it easier for me back in the day.

[xForeverFanaticx]

Blahhhh I don't think this is really too good of a thing to be doing... eeeeh w/e I'm just having fun with it, playing games here and there :3

Aaanyways, I'm in need of a few tips on Kanako's spells in MoF stage 6(after just barely 1CCing it just now).

EDIT: On Normal.

1) Rice Porridge or whatever it's called, the one that's extremely prone to clipdeaths >~< Is there a way to actually reduce the chances of clipdeathing, or is it pure dodging? TT.TT
2) Misayama Hunting Shrine Ritual. How are the red knives aimed? I know their aims are somehow relative to you, but they seem to spread out a LOT, and I panic too much to focus on dodging them at the side walls...
3) How does Kanako's opener work? Are the bullets' aims changing counterclockwise or something? Because I can stream it sort of in one direction, then I gotta dash back and stream again :\
4) Kanako's first spell. When I misdirect the blue amulets, should I misdirect them to the corners and gradually move upwards as I move back to the middle? Or just misdirect to the side and stay on the bottom edge sort of?


btw, I was using MarisaA :3

[Makai Butterfly]

Blahhhh I don't think this is really too good of a thing to be doing... eeeeh w/e I'm just having fun with it, playing games here and there :3

Aaanyways, I'm in need of a few tips on Kanako's spells in MoF stage 6(after just barely 1CCing it just now).

EDIT: On Normal.

1) Rice Porridge or whatever it's called, the one that's extremely prone to clipdeaths >~< Is there a way to actually reduce the chances of clipdeathing, or is it pure dodging? TT.TT
2) Misayama Hunting Shrine Ritual. How are the red knives aimed? I know their aims are somehow relative to you, but they seem to spread out a LOT, and I panic too much to focus on dodging them at the side walls...
3) How does Kanako's opener work? Are the bullets' aims changing counterclockwise or something? Because I can stream it sort of in one direction, then I gotta dash back and stream again :\
4) Kanako's first spell. When I misdirect the blue amulets, should I misdirect them to the corners and gradually move upwards as I move back to the middle? Or just misdirect to the side and stay on the bottom edge sort of?


btw, I was using MarisaA :3

1.  Rice Porridge bullets are notoriously clippy because the hitbox is literally the entire bullet.  The best thing to do on that spell is look for the largest gap as soon as the transformation from jellybean to rice happens, possibly even before that.  The gap will begin to shrink because the rice bullets are always going at a slight diagonal, so tackle it like you would tackle Suwako's final spell (if you've played her yet) and either read diagonal trajectories or zip slightly up between the bullets each time.  If all else fails, call it an auto-bomb until you get better.  I often still do.

2.  This spell looks terrifying, but it's actually quite easy once you get the path down.  Kanako starts by releasing three or four rings of large blue balls.  Quickly find your way through all four while staying in the center to deal damage to Kanako.  Almost immediately, she will start releasing her knives.  Scoot yourself to the left or right (your choice) and you'll notice that she's also release another four rings of blue balls again.  Rather than dodging them at the bottom, start dodging them by going up the side of the screen.  As you are clearing the last one, make sure you let go of the focus key and the rest of the knives should just pass below you.  Now quickly dash back to the center and repeat.

3.  Kanako's opener doesn't appear to be entirely aimed.  The best way I've found to deal with it is to think of it like Reisen's opener and look for "lanes" that form vertically.  You'll start seeing them as you get better at it.

4.  This is her easiest spell by a long shot.  Start in the center and as soon as she moves, follow her to stay under her.  Usually it's just a little bit to the left or right.  Now, very slowly stream back toward the middle as the red pillars fall down next to you (make sure you give yourself enough room so that the thick part doesn't clip you) and then wait near the center until the pillars are gone.  Now, quickly release focus and dash a little to the side you are still streaming toward to create a "gap" in the blue amulets and then stream back toward the middle again.  Rinse and repeat.  There's really no need at all to go too far to the left or right.  It just gives you less time under Kanako and increases the time the spell's going to take to defeat.  This strategy works for all difficulties.

Check out Zengeku's strategy for those three spells on his YouTube video.


I really need a better strategy on Native God "Seven Stones and Seven Trees," Suwako's seven-pillar-jellybean spell.  From what I gather, it's best to dodge vertically and go up into the "cone" of jellybeans and then back out vertically so you don't run into a "tree" pillar.  Is that right?  I find myself lumping it into auto-bomb territory and I don't like that.

[xForeverFanaticx]

God, he sure is confident with the hitboxes in Rice Porridge @@ Squeezing through each pair without any trouble @@

I'll be sure to try out Misayama Hunting Shrine Ritual soon.

Kanako's opener, I'm beginning to notice them :\

Judging from the video and from a bit of testing it myself, yes, it's much better!

Thank you!~ ^^

[MMX]

Misayama Hunting Shrine Ritual is easy :V