Author Topic: Diablo2:Lord of Maidens - Touhou mod [Completed] (Read 263566 times)

Bgrmystr2 · « **Reply #750 on:** December 22, 2012, 10:07:45 PM »

Quote from: Pesco on December 22, 2012, 09:54:12 PM

Something about Master Spark being done ish

Awwww yeaaaah xD So much want right now you have no idea. Images?

Those procs look dangerous as hell. Here! I'll even start the baseless rumors based on vague names so we get it out of the way! :V

I'm betting that stats are for thus named, and points are for skill points, but what kind of debuff.... Without the item buffs for power, your ~~Touhoe~~ Touhou might get killed extremely quickly.
^Ehhe...
Debuff regen looks like it's for either health regen, mana regen, both, or the regen from skills and items. ..Or maybe ALL the above?

Resists is obv. Deadly as hell.

Debuff grind..? I've got nothing. Haha..

Debuff speeds seems sort of like the frozen status. but instead of being frozen, you simply move slower... and being able to be frozen on top of that.. oh man you talk about snails looking like rockets.

Starxsword · « **Reply #751 on:** December 23, 2012, 12:20:01 AM »

Debuff grind could affect item drop rate and xp gain...

Pesco · « **Reply #752 on:** December 23, 2012, 05:52:51 AM »

Sausage Spark screenshots

Tarmo · « **Reply #753 on:** December 23, 2012, 05:55:46 AM »

Those are some trippy sausages man.
Also the alignment seems pretty good, if there were any mistakes I didn't notice them.

Hawkpath1337 · « **Reply #754 on:** December 23, 2012, 11:34:08 AM »

Quote from: Bgrmystr2 on December 23, 2012, 10:48:05 AM

BUT BUT.. BUT... SAUSAGE SPARK! :getdown:

I am thoroughly impressed. That is a HUGE upgrade from the Ice thrower and I stand by my statement of previous.

Was there ever any doubt?

:3
Anyway, I do like the master spark thing, but it's not worth getting perma-debuffed. Get rid of those darn debuffs. And don't go "It adds extra challenge," because THAT'S WHY I WANT THEM GONE! Call me a wimp if you want, but it's artificial difficulty, and also STUPID CHEAP, just from the sound of things. Are you trying to make this Nintendo Hard or something, Pesko!?

Pesco · « **Reply #755 on:** December 23, 2012, 12:17:03 PM »

Artificial difficulty is when you just make all the numbers bigger. That's boring and doesn't change the way you play. Giving the enemies a way to fight back and actually be a threat is the real game. And let's not forget that this is a Touhou mod. Touhou games kill you in one hit. Back in 0.64 we had the infamous Danmaku Archers level of enemies. These guys could attack you from offscreen in the dark. You get hit, you died. Making my players dodge that stuff was fun. Multiplayer games where you get your team to be meatshields was fun. It's so good that I'm keen to make another side area filled with Danmaku Archers.

Bgrmystr2 · « **Reply #756 on:** December 23, 2012, 12:27:35 PM »

Quote from: Hawkpath1337 on December 23, 2012, 11:34:08 AM

:3
Anyway, I do like the master spark thing, but it's not worth getting perma-debuffed. Get rid of those darn debuffs. And don't go "It adds extra challenge," because THAT'S WHY I WANT THEM GONE! Call me a wimp if you want, but it's artificial difficulty, and also STUPID CHEAP, just from the sound of things. Are you trying to make this Nintendo Hard or something, Pesko!?

There is a definite difference between artificial difficulty and Nintendo Hard.

Artificial Difficulty being numbers and no real way to avoid it by way of skill precision, or timing. You're definitely correct in that it seems like artificial difficulty, but I want to see it in action before I judge whether it's fair or not.
Prime example : Diablo 3 Inferno difficulty as well as some specific Rare / Champion affixes. (Jailer, Waller, Knockback, Reflect Damage, Vortex, Nightmarish, Shielding)

Nintendo Hard is simply stupidly difficult in that you NEED skill, precision, and timing to surpass it. Numbers have nothing to do with it. Artificial difficulty can help MAKE something equivalent to Nintendo hard, but it is not the sole proprietor, and shouldn't be associated with Nintendo Hard as being the primary addition.
Example : I would argue that the primary shooter Touhou games to be this kind of difficulty. A friend of mine continuously uses the title Battletoads as Nintendo hard. Perhaps, but this title doesn't have artificial difficulty. It's all skill, precision, and timing.

Don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE fan of real difficulty, and I hate artificial difficulty with a PASSION, but there are sometimes where artificial difficulty can be JUST as passable as realistic difficulty.
Example : Halo 1's legendary tier Spec Ops elites. They dish enough damage to down you in less than a second, but with good reflexes and a good plan, you can avoid dying entirely.

Pesco is also correct. Dodging stuff in Diablo 2 is exponentially fun because you know you're a second away from death, but using the game mechanics, you survive, succeed, and conquer.

I wasn't around during 0.64 so I don't know what Danmaku Archers were like.. but I do know that the ONE thing I hate the most in Diablo 2 are THOSE GOIDSKGFJSF GLOAMS I hate gloams. Did I mention I hate gloams? Goddamn Gloams. Passive mana burn, most powerful element in the game, and shoot you from off screen. It wouldn't be so bad if I could see it coming and avoid it, but it's kind of like getting headshot'd when you're minding your own business in an FPS. REALLY sucks. The normal ones are alright since they don't do a whole lot of damage overall, but when you get into the rare ones who also pack mana burn as an affix, you can kiss your mageass goodbye. They don't NEED any other damage buff, being rares, yet they come with those too.

Edit :
As much as I hate gloams, they are, STILL, arguably realistic difficulty. Not artificial. As much as I hate to admit it. My problem comes with something that never makes itself known. Doesn't care. Kills you out of cold blood. So much different from a boss say.. Remilia.. who comes out of goddamn nowhere, yet you still can run away, try to fight it, but she's too fas- dead.

Hawkpath1337 · « **Reply #757 on:** December 23, 2012, 01:09:31 PM »

Quote from: Bgrmystr2 on December 23, 2012, 12:27:35 PM

Pesco is also correct. Dodging stuff in Diablo 2 is exponentially fun because you know you're a second away from death, but using the game mechanics, you survive, succeed, and conquer.

Why hello different definition of fun. It's worth noting that I thoroughly enjoy being excessively overpowered.

Quote from: Bgrmystr2 on December 23, 2012, 12:27:35 PM

Edit :
As much as I hate gloams, they are, STILL, arguably realistic difficulty. Not artificial. As much as I hate to admit it. My problem comes with something that never makes itself known. Doesn't care. Kills you out of cold blood. So much different from a boss say.. Remilia.. who comes out of goddamn nowhere, yet you still can run away, try to fight it, but she's too fas- dead.

Clearly talking about the EoSD bonus area. Remmy's a wimp in the Tepes's fortress. Phoenix in, smack her a few times, boom. She's dead. So satisfying, knowing I can do that whenever I need runes. I still hunt around in Act 2 for 'em, though.

P.S. I hate burning dead archers. I hate burning dead archers so much. Gosh darn burning dead. Of course, they're not THAT bad when you can just phoenix into the middle of them and slash 'em to smithereens while your spear dude does the same with his spear. There's a reason I go after whoever my hirelings going after. They die faster that way. Much faster.

Tarmo · « **Reply #758 on:** December 23, 2012, 01:11:54 PM »

If you want to be overpowered you can always play on players 1.
Although players 8 provides more of a challenge along with more xp and loot.

Hawkpath1337 · « **Reply #759 on:** December 23, 2012, 01:16:02 PM »

Quote from: Tarmo on December 23, 2012, 01:11:54 PM

If you want to be overpowered you can always play on players 1.
Although players 8 provides more of a challenge along with more xp and loot.

My playstyle is switching to players 1 when I reach the act boss, and play on players 8 in any other circumstance. Mind you, I can pwn the smith(forget who replaces him) with a Voile Fairy in Pure Physical Combat on p8. ALSO JEWELS ADD SOCKETS RECIPE IS REALLY AWESOMELY HELPFUL, IN FACT I SHUDDER TO THINK OF HOW OP YOU CAN GET WITH IT!

Bgrmystr2 · « **Reply #760 on:** December 23, 2012, 01:36:20 PM »

Quote from: Hawkpath1337 on December 23, 2012, 01:09:31 PM

Why hello different definition of fun. It's worth noting that I thoroughly enjoy being excessively overpowered.

What you're feeling is the ability to crush hundreds upon hundreds of things that come at you with relative ease. Kind of similar to how the Heavy plays out in TF2. That's not really a different definition at all when I like that kind of power too. Yeah, Diablo 2 already has this feature, and it's not going to go away simply because he added a few buffs. Like I said, I need to experience it before I judge it. If it turns out that it kills off that ability, then I'll come back and say you were right.

Quote from: Hawkpath1337 on December 23, 2012, 01:09:31 PM

P.S. I hate burning dead archers. I hate burning dead archers so much. Gosh darn burning dead. Of course, they're not THAT bad when you can just phoenix into the middle of them and slash 'em to smithereens while your spear dude does the same with his spear. There's a reason I go after whoever my hirelings going after. They die faster that way. Much faster.

Is this making fun of what I said about gloams or is this legitimate? I'm confused. :V

Also, yes I think that Pesco is taking into account the immense amount of power you can get lategame with heavily socketed items rocking stupidly high concentration of your primary skill points.
I currently have 4 in my staff / hat, 2 in my armor, and I'm already totaling 759 Danmaku + 511 Elementals. I can easily get 4 on gloves AND shoes, on top of two on belt. That's an extra 10 sockets not including if I removed the two from my armor and made a touhouword (which I plan to.)

Since 65 or so is about the highest I can find for the class jewels at the moment, I could easily have a total of 260 from hat, staff, gloves, and shoes, giving 1040, not including the 120+ I already had to start with in the hat AND the staff, so that's a total of 1520 for all four of those items. Another 250 from the belt, drop the 55 from my armor. 1715 main stat points, ignoring if you go for the armor which can give a MASSIVE boost, but I'm forgoing that to get the Marisa touhouword since I can't find a class specific armor for Fairy. ..If I included the armor, I'd top that number for 6 sockets at 65 plus a 120 base.. 510 points added onto the 1715 to give a grand total of about 2225.

I do think that you can get STUPIDLY powerful. My Danmaku being at 759%, and I can surpass 2,225% damage from ONE skill? That's pretty impressive to me. And that can top off even higher since I haven't reached the end of EX tier, nor have I even TOUCHED Phantasm items yet. There's SO much of the late game in this mod I have yet to touch yet I feel so unfathomably powerful already.

Gotta give it to Pesco though. I know I'm only nearing the end of Nightmare.. yet I'm at the character level of finishing HELL in vanilla (mid 8x). Guy knows how to balance.

Edit :
The thing about /players is that it doesn't INSTANTLY update the game. It never has. Not sure if you know this. I sometimes go through several minutes of gameplay before it actually activates. Doing it in town, or before you leave town for the first time has no effect for me. Never has.

Tarmo · « **Reply #761 on:** December 23, 2012, 01:53:48 PM »

As far as I know /players effects any enemies that are spawned at that time. So if you walk into an area while on players 1, leave, type "/players 8" and then come back...the monsters you had already encountered will still be players 1. I'm pretty sure this is to prevent people from just switching to players 1 whenever any sort of annoyance comes their way.

Bgrmystr2 · « **Reply #762 on:** December 23, 2012, 01:57:32 PM »

Really? /players ALWAYS takes several minutes for me to activate irrelevant if I'm in town, out of town, starting the game, doesn't matter. Maybe it hates me.

Quote from: Hawkpath1337 on December 23, 2012, 01:43:36 PM

both.

Fair enough, Sir. I'm not a fan of them either. We're talking about the fire archers that spawn in packs with so many arrows that it makes you twitch uncontrollably until you die, right? (I believe it's solved by faster hit recovery, but that's FAR and few between in vanilla AND this mod.)

Quote from: Tarmo on December 23, 2012, 01:53:48 PM

As far as I know /players effects any enemies that are spawned at that time. So if you walk into an area while on players 1, leave, type "/players 8" and then come back...the monsters you had already encountered will still be players 1. I'm pretty sure this is to prevent people from just switching to players 1 whenever any sort of annoyance comes their way.

OOOOOOHH! It all makes sense now! :V I always wondered.. Thank you for clearing that up. xD

Hawkpath1337 · « **Reply #763 on:** December 23, 2012, 02:04:11 PM »

Quote from: Bgrmystr2 on December 23, 2012, 01:57:32 PM

Fair enough, Sir. I'm not a fan of them either. We're talking about the fire archers that spawn in packs with so many arrows that it makes you twitch uncontrollably until you die, right? (I believe it's solved by faster hit recovery, but that's FAR and few between in vanilla AND this mod.)

Yes, we are. It's the amount of damage they do that makes me hate them, though. I can get away from them easily enough. And I've only gotten past act 1 with my Mokou/Patchy/Medicine. I focus on Mokou. Specifically her rage. And MOKOU LOOKS LIKE A BOY! EVEN WITH THE HAIR RIBBON, HE STILL LOOKS LIKE A GUY! AAGH! I KEEP WANTING TO CALL HIM A GUY! Anyway... darnit, can't think of anything constructive to say.

Pesco · « **Reply #764 on:** December 23, 2012, 04:25:41 PM »

Quote from: Bgrmystr2 on December 23, 2012, 01:36:20 PM

Gotta give it to Pesco though. I know I'm only nearing the end of Nightmare.. yet I'm at the character level of finishing HELL in vanilla (mid 8x). Guy knows how to balance.

Ahahaha surely you jest :V. You know the level cap in the mod is 128, right?

Back to the mention of the enemy debuff procs that started this. They're sorta like the enemy's dirty trick at the end of a fight. But if you're prepared enough, it shouldn't phase you much. Debuffs stick on you for at least 3 seconds and scale with the enemy level. It caps out at just over 20 seconds. The strength of the debuffs are random for every proc. Due to the way I have to set these effects, you will mostly only encounter them in the main game. The way mobs are spawned also means you'll never see all 6 debuffs at once. At most you'll have 4 within a mob. The most harmless debuff gets to be the most common and the more dangerous ones have a lower chance of being spawned. But I will say danger is measured relatively. Speed debuffs shouldn't matter to a Chen build because she maxes out her speeds very easily. A grind debuff to Nazrin or Tewi means nothing. ~~So clearly Youkai Hunter is the best class.~~ There's something for everyone to struggle with and forces you to play the game with more attention than just spamming the skills.

Bgrmystr2 · « **Reply #765 on:** December 23, 2012, 04:48:14 PM »

Quote from: Pesco on December 23, 2012, 04:25:41 PM

Ahahaha surely you jest :V

Look! More hidden professionalism!
^{..or footprints}
I know the level cap is 128, but it always made me think that it would be kind of like the level cap of the base game being 99. You got to like high 80s and never needed to level ever again. It was pretty pointless at that point. Is it like that or do we actually reach 128?
.. And what's with 128 anyway? Is that just the game's core limit? Or is there a story behind it?

The debuffs sound interesting from what you describe. I look forward to more information on them, and any testing results you feel the need to inform us with. :3

Pesco · « **Reply #766 on:** December 23, 2012, 04:51:14 PM »

Max power in PCB was 128. A nice arbitrary number for the level cap.

Bgrmystr2 · « **Reply #767 on:** December 23, 2012, 04:53:22 PM »

Quote from: Pesco on December 23, 2012, 04:51:14 PM

Max power in PCB was 128. A nice arbitrary number for the level cap.

Right-o.

Quote from: Hawkpath1337 on December 23, 2012, 01:09:31 PM

Clearly talking about the EoSD bonus area.

Yup.

Quote from: Hawkpath1337 on December 23, 2012, 01:09:31 PM

Remmy's a wimp in the Tepes's fortress.

Agree to this.

I sort of wish Reimu had some extra skills when you fight her in the real game like Marisa does. (or it seems like she does lol) I can see those fights being much more fun like they are in the touhou game areas.

ARF · « **Reply #768 on:** December 23, 2012, 05:11:06 PM »

The new debuff thing sounds like it would add some interesting depth to The Grind, I hope the effect can be dodged though. Although it probably doesn't matter too much if they just last a few seconds anyway.

I made a little Momiji the other day, a bit sad that she can't use most active secondary tree skills (flandre) in her wolf form :ohdear: But that's alright. Something that confused me was the Yorihime aura which didn't seem to give any additional elemental damage despite the description stating that it does. Also the wolves summonings seemed perhaps a little weak compared to the insanely great spider summonings from the Yamame build, which is also kinda OK as they certainly aren't useless. Shit I feel like I'm giving the most vague and useless feedback ever. I haven't been playing much since I'm saving myself for the final release.

Now that the master spark is totally kowai and sugoi I might just make nice Marisa themed playlist and go for a spark fairy as my first build!

Merry Christmas fellow maidens :3

(If I'm not makings sense it's because beer wwww sorry)

Pesco · « **Reply #769 on:** December 23, 2012, 05:32:43 PM »

Yorihime aura give bonus damage when there's a significant investment into Purity. If you know how to flash change aura, you can give yourself quite a bit of free elemental damage. I only realised the possibility of a pure Yorihime build (I don't do puns when I'm working, go away) when testing Flan myself.

Momiji's wolves can eat corpses and teleport. I could look at giving them a bit more offense as I'm sure they aren't as tanky as the spiders.

ARF · « **Reply #770 on:** December 23, 2012, 05:36:03 PM »

Quote from: Pesco on December 23, 2012, 05:32:43 PM

Yorihime aura give bonus damage when there's a significant investment into Purity. If you know how to flash change aura, you can give yourself quite a bit of free elemental damage. I only realised the possibility of a pure Yorihime build (I don't do puns when I'm working, go away) when testing Flan myself.

Momiji's wolves can eat corpses and teleport. I could look at giving them a bit more offense as I'm sure they aren't as tanky as the spiders.

Sweet, good to know that it is working at least. Give the wolves rabies! Or something better :3?

Pesco · « **Reply #771 on:** December 23, 2012, 05:53:56 PM »

I don't think I can give them Rabies as an usable skill. They could get some proc effects like Blazing Wheels.

Bgrmystr2 · « **Reply #772 on:** December 23, 2012, 08:36:40 PM »

Just curious, is the bonus for Orreries Sun supposed to be extra mana regenerated? I would figure this kind of bonus would go toward the skill that's supposed to.. you know.. regenerate your mana. Open Universe. Which simply gets a duration increase.

I guess giving any more % health to mana to Orreries Sun would seem pretty op but it's not like you couldn't get 100% in vanilla Diablo II, you just had to max out Telekinesis to get it there. (You'd still take 1 damage to your hp even at 100%)

Edit :
Well... I guess seeing that we naturally get an unbelievable mana regeneration skill like Open Universe.. it would be broken to have 100% (minus 1) of the damage you take go to mana and then have it just up and regenerate back.. I never quite experimented with that and the % mana regen runes in vanilla.. but I guess it would be a sacrifice of your high tier items and damage in order to do so. I know it's almost required for you to do this in Diablo 3 to even get anywhere in Inferno.

..But that's because some dumbass thought a potions cooldown was a good idea.. You know.. let's use a potion because we're at 1 health and not die. "Why would I do that?" Oh right, Why WOULD you do that? Why would we NOT jump out in the middle of moving traffic? Why would we eat when we're hungry? Why would we tend to our wounds when we're hurt? Why would we do that? :wat:

Tarmo · « **Reply #773 on:** December 24, 2012, 09:41:52 AM »

I recently started a momiji build myself, so I'm kind of curious what exactly "flash change aura" means D: (Sorry I'm kinda bad at this game)
Also it seems to me that there is a problem with rabies, when attacking with my basic attack the character screen tells me I have a 95% chance to hit (tested on act 1 players 8 blue kedamas) it hits near the expected 100%. However when attacking the same target with rabies I find I almost never hit, it's somewhere closer to a 1/20 chance to hit. I did try this with a different weapon (I was using the dragoonslayer dao) just in case the double proc effects interfered with it...sadly I got the same results.
Either I'm really unlucky or there's some kind of problem D:

Amraphenson · « **Reply #774 on:** December 24, 2012, 10:18:40 AM »

It's when you toggle between auras to stack them, because they linger for a bit after being deactivated.

Tarmo · « **Reply #775 on:** December 24, 2012, 10:43:24 AM »

Thanks for clearing that up Kanzaki.

Anyways, I wanted to go ahead and take a shot at a more in depth look at momiji if that's okay with you guys.

It's pretty obvious that she gains high amounts of ar and attack speed from wolf form itself, so the question (I think) is how to build around that. Your only choices for main attacking moves seem to be rabies and feral wolf. I have some small problems with both of them. If I remember correctly rabies was a pretty good choice for a main attack on wolf druids in vanilla diablo 2. I believe this had to do with the ridiculously high poison damage it could do. However rabies has very little innate synergy with the werewolf's bonus attack speed. I'm sure it's a solid choice regardless but it just seems like you wouldn't need to put more than one point into werewolf for a rabies build (Perhaps this was your intention). As for feral wolf, it's a single target auto attack that has no bonus to attack speed, as far as I know this wasn't very good in pve. It might make a solid choice in pvp though, if anyone here actually plans on playing pvp. (It also appears that the tooltip for feral wolf doesn't update as you get more +feral stat, even if you use the hidden stats updater)

In conclusion I believe momiji is a pretty fun character to play, but has a couple skills that don't synergize all that well with each other. I won't make any judgements pertaining to balance as I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the late game of diablo 2 in general.

Pesco · « **Reply #776 on:** December 24, 2012, 01:48:55 PM »

Rabies is supposed to use a special attack animation. I'll just blame Blizzard for setting an animation that ignores your attack rating for the skill. I've changed it to using the normal attack animation and there's less swinging into air with Rabies now.

Feral Wolf grants progressive lifesteal, which is pretty hard to get in the game. The only other ways to get lifesteal for cheap is from Remilia's Bloodmagic Square passive or Komachi's Short Life Expectancy attack.

I think treat Rabies as a kind of crowd control skill that you use in general. Feral Wolf being a chargeup kind of skill, you use when it's a boss. These being your only attacks in a pure Momiji build would mean it takes a lot of investment. If you use Momiji's skills as a support tree, investing just in wolf form should be enough.

Tarmo · « **Reply #777 on:** December 24, 2012, 02:02:39 PM »

Eh don't mind me, I'm probably just worrying too much.
I thought the max level was 99 still for this mod, so I was worried that if I maxed out feral wolf my aoe damage would be piss poor. If I remember correctly you got around 120 skill points (probably less) in vanilla so that's about enough to max out 5-6 skills, I was hoping to max wolf/lycanthropy/feral wolf/sword mastery/random aura so I was afraid I wouldn't have skill points left. If the level cap is 128 I should be able to max all those and rabies as well with some points to spare for flandre's fire absorb/lifesteal passive.

Anyways thanks for looking into the rabies issue.

Pesco · « **Reply #778 on:** December 24, 2012, 03:08:22 PM »

You get 12 skill points from quests, 2 from the spellcard contract and 127 from levels. 141 points to put where ever. A pure build that maxes everything takes 150 points to do. I set the cap for skill levels to 25 because the parameters for scaling have a bracket between skill level 23-28 that you wouldn't get to see if the cap was the normal 20. As basic as it is for the hardcore players of efficiency, it bears reminding that not every skill in every build needs to be maxed. My general idea was that a pure build realistically only needed about 3 maxed skills (75 points) and you'd spend 4 or 5 for prereqs. You still have 61 points left to play around with, which is enough for your secondary tree to see 2 maxed skills and access other 1 point wonders.

I don't claim to have thought out everything in such detail, but a lot of things just worked itself out along the way.

Edit: Tested my enemy debuff procs on Phantasm. They're freakin harmless. But at least they scale as planned.

Bgrmystr2 · « **Reply #779 on:** December 24, 2012, 05:24:54 PM »

Quote from: Pesco on December 24, 2012, 03:08:22 PM

12 skill points from quests

Wait what? Where? I know you get three from Akara (1 per diff), and 6 from Tyreal (2 per diff), but where does the other three come from? You can't mean the Ancients since they give you a level up. They don't actually give you a free skill point.

What am I missing?

Edit :
OH wait, from act 2, the first boss drops the book of skill point. Right. Forgot.