Touhou 15 「東方紺珠伝 ～ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom」 Patch 1.00b released

[Clarste]

I don't think Junko's position has changed at all. It's not like she's a new development to the Lunar Capital: she's presumably been plotting against the moon for thousands of years. She mentions meeting the crew of Apollo 11 (but doesn't give any details), so she's definitely been hanging out on the moon by herself for at least decades, and there's no reason she can't continue to do so. I doubt she'll end up in Gensokyo.

[Tiamat]

The Extra Story is where you'd go to get what finally happens to Junko, I imagine.  Well, maybe.  Unlike other Touhou games, the extra story in this one is a continuation of the main plot rather than a new mini-plot launched off from the main plot (I think?)

[Critz]

So, I presume this turned out to be just a red herring. Bummer.

So, now that we know the deal with the endings, did anyone confirm the Extra Stage unlock requirements already? If, for all intents and purposes

Spoiler:

1cc'ing or not changes nothing about the ending we get and playing on Pointdevice / no-deathing Legacy or not is what decides which one you'll get, then it would be pretty important to know storyline-wise whether getting the 'worse' ending can still unlock the Extra Stage and allow you to proceed further. Would Junko just move on to the Extra Stage part of the story if she pwn'd your impure self effortlessly (as it's implied outside the gameplay by her dialogue)?

What about no-death Legacy runs that have their first death or Junko? - Junko in-story seems 100% certain she cannot win anymore if you reach her without dying, but scoring a first misss while fighting her should logically overturn the outcome to her favor.
(Unless it's another Kaguya situation from IN, where you'd get the good ending even if she forces your imperishable night spell to break with her bonus spell cards.)

I also wouldn't mind knowing if an Easy clear or a clear with continues unlocks the Extra Stage,

Spoiler:

considering there's no such things as "1cc" in-story at all this time, only death or no-death runs.

[Clarste]

I also wouldn't mind knowing if an Easy clear or a clear with continues unlocks the Extra Stage,

Spoiler:

considering there's no such things as "1cc" in-story at all this time, only death or no-death runs.

Easy unlocks extra. Using continues also has the same ending as a 1CC. I wouldn't know if Legacy mode unlocks Extra though, because I can't un-unlock it.

[yukiluck]

Current translations:Did anyone try to play the song in reverse and confirm this? ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dObTqkz-x2I

[Fulisha of Light]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dObTqkz-x2I

Damn, that's really creepy D:

[Quils]

I get the feeling that with the Dream World passage the Lunar Capital (and the Moon in general) will be much more accessible. Maybe it'll get the same treatment as the Underworld: everyone saying that you shouldn't travel to that world because it's dangerous blah blah... but that still wouldn't stop some people from the Moon occasionally visiting Gensokyo or Marisa going to the Lunar Capital to hunt for treasure, for example.

Well, I hope that's the case because it would be sad to never see these new characters again.
(And I hope this means that the Watatsuki sisters could appear (not counting cameos) in some manga chapters (WaHH/FS/whatever) in the future, specially those mentioning what happened after this incident.)

[ChronaSE]

Come to think of it,  Junko's son is the yatagarasu Okuu ate?

[SomeGuy712x]

I wouldn't know if Legacy mode unlocks Extra though, because I can't un-unlock it.

Legacy does indeed unlock Extra, because my first time playing the full version, I 1cc-ed Legacy on Easy with Reimu, and that unlocked Extra for her.

[PK]

I get the feeling that with the Dream World passage the Lunar Capital (and the Moon in general) will be much more accessible.

I doubt it. Apparently, it still takes the full Moon to travel between the two, and not everyone can use the dream world whenever they want like in LoLK (i'm not sure Reimu and the others were able becuse of the drug). Also, Lunarians would never allow people going on the Moon as they please. The "filthy earthlings would bring us impurity and thus death" thing is still true.
As for Marisa going there to cause trouble...even if by some low chance she was allowed to go there, she better keep her hands off and behave, since lunarians don't have Gensokyo's rules to ensure her safety.
Lunarians showing up in Gensokyo isn't impossible though, especially if it has something to do with Eientei. Maybe Sagume shows up to take her urban-legend-causing occult balls back (would make for a great 15.5 i think).

[Drake]

I get the feeling that with the Dream World passage the Lunar Capital (and the Moon in general) will be much more accessible.

I'm not too sure about that. Doremy let you through to the true Lunar Capital, but this seems like a one-off due to the circumstances. She's normally supposed to keep these sorts of things in check. Maybe it won't matter and it'll still be used as transport here and there, but it almost seems too convenient for anyone to go to and fro. It kind of underwhelms all the methods previously used to get to the moon (lunar veil, god rocket, monthly gap, mountain-sea hax) if it's just some regularly available thing.

Come to think of it,  Junko's son is the yatagarasu Okuu ate?

No. "Eating" is also a pretty lax metaphor at this point (it's more like "consume"?), basically Kanako set up Utsuho as a vessel for the divine spirit of the Yatagarasu just like you might make a shrine out of an empty wooden box. That's where the "empty-headed" part comes in. She also didn't take on "the" Yatagarasu, since gods can split to fit into any and all shrines made for them. Now when I was talking about the Yatagarasu above, that's just how the tale of Houyi goes. It doesn't necessarily mean ZUN is adapting the story how it's usually written, since currently it's only very loose connections as far as I can tell.

[Quils]

Ok... maybe not "much more accessible" but "a little bit more accessible". I guess it makes much more sense for the lunarians to visit Gensokyo instead of the earthlings visiting the Moon.
But still, Sagume doesn't seem like the kind of person who would visit other places. She must be a lot like Satori so we'll probably not see too much of her in the future. How sad.

(I can still see Marisa getting into trouble with the lunarians just because she's Marisa)

[Starxsword]

Basic physics. If fairies create actual air that can be breathed, then it can be seen. Well, may be what they create is more like an idea of the air, an idea of "you are able to breathe here", and giving this idea enough magic for it to come true. Very Touhou-ish.

Really now, some assumptions there. You mean to imply that you can detect oxygen from say a plastic air tank from a distance?
How do you know how the fairies are creating breathable air? How are you so sure it causes an atmosphere when it can simply be a zone where you can breathe in?

[Tiamat]

(And I hope this means that the Watatsuki sisters could appear (not counting cameos) in some manga chapters (WaHH/FS/whatever) in the future, specially those mentioning what happened after this incident.)

The Watatsuki sisters don't need the dream world passage if they want to visit Gensokyo, anyways.  They visited just fine in Inaba of the Moon and Earth when they just wanted to chill in Gensokyo with their former mentor and pet rabbit for a while.  While it's true that ZUN gave the author the freedom to write the jokes and thus the specific details might be questionable, it was also ZUN who made a lot of the "suggestions" of who should actually appear next, so it's possible the Watatsuki sisters appearing (and thus their ability and willingness to travel to Gensokyo on a whim) was his suggestion (and thus, canon enough, IMHO) too.

[Clarste]

Watatsuki's power lets her freely travel between the Earth and the Moon. They've always been able to visit.

[Quils]

I know about Toyohime's power, I'm just saying that they may now have a reason to appear in the mangas again since the Moon is relevant again. Maybe not visiting Gensokyo, but at least I would love to see what they where doing while the Lunar Capital was under attack.

[Drake]

The Watatsuki sisters don't need the dream world passage if they want to visit Gensokyo, anyways.  They visited just fine in Inaba of the Moon and Earth when they just wanted to chill in Gensokyo with their former mentor and pet rabbit for a while.  While it's true that ZUN gave the author the freedom to write the jokes and thus the specific details might be questionable, it was also ZUN who made a lot of the "suggestions" of who should actually appear next, so it's possible the Watatsuki sisters appearing (and thus their ability and willingness to travel to Gensokyo on a whim) was his suggestion (and thus, canon enough, IMHO) too.

You don't even need to note Inaba; Toyohime used her ability to carry her and Rei'sen to the Bamboo Forest in SSiB/CiLR.

[game2011]

I've seen people mistaking Shinki for the goddess of hell.  I assume that this misconception stems from this passage on the wiki?
"Due to her angelic and demonic elements, Shinki is sometimes considered to be a fallen angel, in particular an analogue to Lucifer or Satan (who was described as bright and beautiful, matching Shinki's name). Pand?monium, the capital of Makai, was the capital of Hell in Paradise Lost."

Saw someone said Shinki is no longer the goddess there because of Hecatia...

[HalfGrand]

I think the whole "Frozen Capital of Eternity in reverse" thing is a pretty neat little tidbit from ZUN. I wonder if he meant to make it sound like that when played backwards or if it was just coincidental and ZUN thought it would be neat to mention playing it backwards... ZUN plays his music backwards? Haha  :V

It sounds pretty nice even when played backwards. It kinda reminds me of "death mode" when you get hit in Ten Desires and have 10 seconds of invincibility before *pichuun*.

This is some serious Stairway To Heaven stuff right here... without the Devil worship of course. 

[Quwanti]

I think the whole "Frozen Capital of Eternity in reverse" thing is a pretty neat little tidbit from ZUN. I wonder if he meant to make it sound like that when played backwards or if it was just coincidental and ZUN thought it would be neat to mention playing it backwards... ZUN plays his music backwards? Haha  :V

I'm pretty sure it was just a mistake in the translation part, because it already says something different on the wiki now.

[Helepolis]

Even older articles / translations from earlier games were not exactly accurate or carefully worded which created lots of false or inaccurate assumptions. Especially for a game that is not even a week old, it is highly discouraged to immediately accept everything as translated. Be careful with that :V

[Drake]

Yeah I'm still seeing some weird things in the omake at least so I'd be wary of written translations for a little while

[Jaimers]

Goddammit ZUN why do you do this.

[N-Forza]

I meant to link that at some point, but yeah, ZUN made the projective hitboxes bigger when he made them round.

[ふねん1]

No wonder the mini-stars feel so fat now. At least there's a bit of consolation in knowing the long elliptical bullets had BS hitboxes both before and after. Were these changes specifically for LoLK or did this happen earlier?

[Critz]

Which games are being compared there?

Also, if anyone wonders, continued clears do not unlock Extra Stage. Not surprisingly.

[Kaizaki]

It's semi-implied at this point that many occurrences of Shinto mythology involving the Amatsukami have to do with the moon. As Chang'e never ascended to the moon in Touhou lore, it's reasonable to say Junko also lived on the moon... But you also have to consider the connection to the story of Houyi, which is probably started the whole thing. In Reisen's ending

Spoiler:

it shows Chang'e with the moon, Houyi with the sun, and Junko and the child with the earth. One of the famous stories of Houyi is that ten "suns" (yatagarasu) were born and shot down by Houyi in order to save the earth, so one of these might have been her child?

I haven't done enough research to nail down what ZUN's scrambled together here.

Thanks. I did think of the connection to Houyi, theorising in a previous post that Chang'e was banished to the Earth and met/married him there, with the events concerning Junko and her child following after (Reisen ending spoilers)

Spoiler:

which would explain her Earth position in the diagram

. But as it's a theory and doesn't have much backup (not to mention the number of points both in and not in favour), I naturally had doubts. It's just that the few sources listing her as a former resident of the Moon made me wonder if I missed something.

[Valar]

Really now, some assumptions there. You mean to imply that you can detect oxygen from say a plastic air tank from a distance?

*Big McIntosh voice* Eeyup.
Not gonna explain how though, since it will require using terms I don't know English words for.

How do you know how the fairies are creating breathable air? How are you so sure it causes an atmosphere when it can simply be a zone where you can breathe in?

That's what I wrote myself and even described how it could be realized. You really just want to argue, aren't you?

[gilde]

It turns out that you actually do get some unique text (spoiler warning?) at the end of the Staff Roll for a no-miss Legacy clear.

Spoiler:

"You have surpassed a god!"

;

Spoiler:

"Brag to everyone!"

/

Spoiler:

"You're better than a TAS!"

/

Spoiler:

"Are you even human??"

for Normal/Hard/Lunatic respectively.

[Shizzo]

It turns out that you actually do get some unique text (spoiler warning?) at the end of the Staff Roll for a no-miss Legacy clear.

Spoiler:

"You have surpassed a god!"

;

Spoiler:

"Brag to everyone!"

/

Spoiler:

"You're better than a TAS!"

/

Spoiler:

"Are you even human??"

for Normal/Hard/Lunatic respectively.

Consider you need more dexterity to dodge Junko's danmaku than to perform heart surgery, no wonder the game claims you're better than a TAS  :V