Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2

[Garlyle]

I've gone up to about 108% as well.  The -actual- chances of getting an encounter on a given step is actually 50 less than what it displays; so 52% is only a 2% chance that your step will trigger an encounter.  As a result, obscene luck could theoretically have a displayed encounter rate of roughly 150% (no idea if it would display beyond for like a half second or something).


YCZ, come back to try to fight her once you complete the lockdown, is my suggestion.  At that point, focus on keeping her from doing... well... anything... by massively dropping her speed (She's pretty slow regardless) and keeping her in paralysis lockdown.  Also try reducing her DEF and MND as opposed to buffing your attacks, for once - Komachi's damn good for this.

[yoshicookiezeus]

I have finished the whole failsafe locks quest, if that was what you were wondering. I tried your advice by keeping her paralysed with Cirno and

Spoiler:

Yuugi

while having

Spoiler:

Komachi

lower her stats, and things were going pretty well until she pulled out Violent Motherland and wiped my party (including Meiling and

Spoiler:

Komachi

, both with full health and three One Million Holy Boards defense buffs)... I guess I just need to level up some more?

[Pesco]

I've gone up to about 108% as well.  The -actual- chances of getting an encounter on a given step is actually 50 less than what it displays; so 52% is only a 2% chance that your step will trigger an encounter.  As a result, obscene luck could theoretically have a displayed encounter rate of roughly 150% (no idea if it would display beyond for like a half second or something).

That's why I said set your encounter to 200% if you want to speedgrind. Walking around while the thing is at 100 and over is embarrassing. :V

[MysTeariousYukari]

Yoshicookie, that boss is difficult if only due to it's high DEF and MND count. If you can defeat the 12F boss, you should be able to defeat this boss as well if you can't beat the 12F boss, then grinding awaits :V

[Serela]

YES! I beat the damn thing! 
Killed it with a last ditch effort Master Spark, which was pretty awesome.
MS does less damage than Silent Selene.  :V
I guess I need more sp before it becomes ridiculously powerfull?

Having more SP will boost the damage, yeah. But the main thing that will help is having Marisa use Concentrate 3 times and then have someone switch her out; then she'll be in the back with 97% MAG buff and recharging to full SP! It's AWESOME then. Good for either switching her in/out for 1 turn super nukes, or nuking a final phase.

I'm also 15 levels underleveled. ;-;

And considering 16F and up is where its not obscenely rare to game over in a random battle, you'll really need to fix that soon, eheh~

15F is better for grinding then 16F, by the way. Basically the same exp/skill points and much easier battles. Ditto for 17~18F, 17F is better if you need to grind for 18F boss. Because you'll just get damage raped by that boss if you're underleveled, and the battle takes too long to possibly get THAT lucky.

[LHCling]

Tips on individual monsters would be great.

From what I gathered:
AC - Battle

Spoiler:

~60k HP? Don't bother outspeeding. High DEF low MND. SPI resistant.

AC - Magic

Spoiler:

~40k HP? Something you want to outspeed. Low DEF? SPI resistant.

AC - Holy

Spoiler:

~40k HP? Ridiculously annoying support that needs to die first; better if they all die at the same time though. SPI resistant.

Gold Sorceress

Spoiler:

~40k HP? SPI Resistant.

Gold Knight

Spoiler:

~60k HP. Just a general meat shield of sorts I guess. Somewhat FIR resistant.

Dimension

Spoiler:

~40k HP. Rather low DEF. MYS Resistant.

Will o' Wisp

Spoiler:

~25k HP. WND, SPI Resistant, MAG Weak.

Spirit Crystallization

Spoiler:

~40k HP. Generally, run from this if you enter the battle without any capacity to kill them. Very high MND. Also WND Resistant.

I do not claim the above is correct in any way; there are assumptions. I feel there are parts missing though. Mainly because I didn't do a full experiment of every (type of) attack possible.

I'm also 15 levels underleveled. ;-;

No you're not. :dealwithit Man it up.

Spoiler:

If this is about taking out Yukari at Lv70, consider yourself within the "recommended range"; it turns out that it was very possible at that Lv to begin with, seeing my "easily reproducible" results at Lv75

.

Also 'nut, use spoiler tags FFS. You can't be that lazy, right? Or did you get that trait from a certain person as well?
I hate restarting 18F "Bitch" each time

Spoiler:

Scarlet Gold Sword

just hits a 3rd or 4th slot character at the start.

[Jaimers]

Oh crap, I think I messed up. :S
I gave

Spoiler:

Komachi

ATK the entire time as level-up bonus, while I now see that HP would have been much better.

Did I screw myself over? D:
I still have a save from right before fighting the F7 boss, but I would rather not face this asshole again. Plus, mapping F8 took like an hour.

[Serela]

Oh crap, I think I messed up. :S
I gave

Spoiler:

Komachi

ATK the entire time as level-up bonus, while I now see that HP would have been much better.

Did I screw myself over? D:
I still have a save from right before fighting the F7 boss, but I would rather not face this asshole again. Plus, mapping F8 took like an hour.

Well, you could either go for an ATK Komachi (Scythe that chooses the dead should be fairly nice, right?) or just don't use Komachi.

Her tanking ability is greatly reduced by the fact that, while she is potentially the hardest to 0hko, she is guarenteed to take big damage from everything and so cannot stay out long without constant Minoriko pampering. All your other tanking characters should be taking low to zero damage from most (Read:Most, definitely not all) attacks with some buffs on them.

[nintendonut888]

I've never much understood the point for spoiler tags. >_> By that logic, why don't we use spoiler tags every time we refer to a boss in the shooters?

[Serela]

I've never much understood the point for spoiler tags. >_> By that logic, why don't we use spoiler tags every time we refer to a boss in the shooters?

Because it takes like 20 minutes or less to reach the final boss which most people can do on Easy Mode, and as far as Extra goes, basically everyone who would be on this forum knows who the boss is anyway.

Also, where it doesn't really affect the story much in the shooters if you know the boss (as if they have a big story plot anyway), the last three big bosses in thLabyrinth actually can cause spoilers to know.

Although you probably figured it out, haven't you? Don't try to if you haven't, its much more fun if you get surprised. That's the whole point of a good story!

[MysTeariousYukari]

Woot! 2F of my 2nd run and battles take forevar~ :V

[nintendonut888]

I finally tussled my way through floor 17. It actually wasn't near as bad as floor 7, overpowered enemies notwithstanding.

Now it is floor 18.

I know what awaits me on floor 18.

Ze chase begins...

* Donut cocks shotgun

Also I just beat Flan. Yay.

[Pesco]

Although you probably figured it out, haven't you? Don't try to if you haven't, its much more fun if you get surprised. That's the whole point of a good story!

7F and 14F-oshit-i-walked-into-a-boss-fight are the best surprises.

[yoshicookiezeus]

After about an hour of grinding,

Spoiler:

Tenshi

goes down!

Spoiler:

Suwako's Iron Ring attack

was probably what made the victory possible, as I think she had the boss paralysed for more than half of the battle... Things were becoming a bit panic-shaped towards the end, when I only had Meiling, Patchy,

Spoiler:

Sanae

, and Marisa (who was in reserve) left and she used Focus to prepare a final party-wipe, but I brought in Marisa and brought her down with good ol' Master Spark before she could actually use the move.

And now to try the 12F boss trio again... Hopefully the new character will help, as she seems to be a bit of a tank.

[nintendonut888]

Is it just me, or are the enemies in floor 18 much easier than the ones in floor 17? Not only that, but they give a lot more experience.

Anyway, looking forward to finally meeting the floor 18 boss when I get home from school today~ This floor looks like it'll be fun.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Oh god

Spoiler:

Tenshi

has great defences. Just tried fighting the 12F bosses again and she didn't take any damage at all (even though I stupidly forgot to equip her with any items=, until the left one went down and the middle one promptly unleashed an attack that did a lethal 3,000 damage to her along with wiping the rest of the party. Note to self: Keep a paralysing character for the final desperation phase.

And approximately how much HP do those two have? It would be nice to know how I should allocate my attacks in order to be able to take them down without too much time of getting destroyed in between.

[Pesco]

And approximately how much HP do those two have? It would be nice to know how I should allocate my attacks in order to be able to take them down without too much time of getting destroyed in between.

240K    120K    Irrelevant

Spam Royal Flare until Patch is out of SP. By then you should have won.

[Garlyle]

Oh crap, I think I messed up. :S
I gave

Spoiler:

Komachi

ATK the entire time as level-up bonus, while I now see that HP would have been much better.

Did I screw myself over? D:
I still have a save from right before fighting the F7 boss, but I would rather not face this asshole again. Plus, mapping F8 took like an hour.

Just start giving her HP from now on and keep going.  You're not totally fucked; a level up bonus put into a stat is actually LESS of a bonus than a single level via Skill Points.  So... yeah.

Besides, some extra ATK for her isn't bad.  She's actually got a fairly good ATK stat, and even if her most useful technique, Narrow Confines, is pretty much shitty for damage regardless, Scythe that Chooses the Dead is actually pretty nicely powerful.

[LHCling]

18F done at Reimu Lv93.

...Sandbag fest. Also, I never increased any of my characters'

Spoiler:

TP so... it felt pressured

. 2 Deaths being Youmu and

Spoiler:

Yuugi

.

EDIT: 30 minute battle FFFFF-

Also, pic uploading uploaded. Really strange...
http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=384&u=12803292
I was surprised I was able to take that

Spoiler:

Scarlet Gold Sword

. Might've been from the small "residual" buffing though left over.

[Serela]

I wonder what level Baity'll beat the final boss at. I myself haven't gotten back around to playing thLaby in a few days since reaching 20F but it seems like with the right set up and some luck, you could do it at Reimu 130.

Of course, with all my skillpoint wasting trying out new chars and trying to avoid characters I used on my first play, I'll probably go to lv135~140. It'd be too much luckgarbage for my party at this point, it seems.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Spam Royal Flare until Patch is out of SP. By then you should have won.

Then Patchy must be kind of underleveled (she's at level 51), as she ran out of SP before I had even gotten rid of

Spoiler:

Reisen

... And with her horrible SP recovery rate, it takes forever before she can start attacking again. I still managed to take out everyone except

Spoiler:

Kaguya

, but of course she just destroyed my entire party after a few turns alone.

On a side note, I never thought I'd see a situation where Patchy is a better tank than Meiling.

[AlexX Unlimited]

*tanking with 15F optional*

And people say I was being silly by claiming the game makers favored her...

Anyhow, spoilerific questions:

Spoiler:

Is it worth it to drop Marisa for Yukari? I haven't beaten her yet, but I think I've got a strategy down. Only thing is Marisa has been dying a lot lately and her Spark can only do so much for requiring several turns to prep, then stay on the bench until near the end of the battle, while Yukari can have a pretty effective nuke since I'm using both Ran and Chen, which can be used more than one turn in a row without requiring quite a bit of time for prepping. Yukari can also support, but since I have Ran and Reimu for that I figure that could be a secondary job if I decide to use her (after all, if I'm dropping Marisa it has to be for more offense).

Only thing is, as I've said before, skillpoint levels are an issue... I'm STILL way behind on levelling and training Yukari will just put me behind further. I can deal with it, but I need to be sure she's absolutely worth it before I do.

[Serela]

And people say I was being silly by claiming the game makers favored her...

Anyhow, spoilerific questions:

Spoiler:

Is it worth it to drop Marisa for Yukari? I haven't beaten her yet, but I think I've got a strategy down. Only thing is Marisa has been dying a lot lately and her Spark can only do so much for requiring several turns to prep, then stay on the bench until near the end of the battle, while Yukari can have a pretty effective nuke since I'm using both Ran and Chen, which can be used more than one turn in a row without requiring quite a bit of time for prepping. Yukari can also support, but since I have Ran and Reimu for that I figure that could be a secondary job if I decide to use her (after all, if I'm dropping Marisa it has to be for more offense).

Only thing is, as I've said before, SP is an issue... I'm STILL way behind on levelling and training Yukari will just put me behind further. I can deal with it, but I need to be sure she's absolutely worth it before I do.

Well, she's great for a tank (If you spend Lvl-Up bonuses in MND she has PATCH-LEVEL MND, plus her support moves. Maybe higher.), but those 2 characters in your party to make her nuke stronger, MAG isn't a bad choice at all.

I wouldn't drop Marisa because Spark is really useful, but, it wouldn't be a totally bad choice to do so... but, I'd recommend dropping someone other then Marisa.

[Ghaleon]

Dropping marisa is a bad idea. Master spark might not seem great at first, but it truly is the only thing in the game which provides you with a source of damage without taking a front 4 spot (not for long anyway). Plus the oodles of "I just casted focus and my next turn will own you" bosses later on.

[Serela]

Dropping marisa is a bad idea. Master spark might not seem great at first, but it truly is the only thing in the game which provides you with a source of damage without taking a front 4 spot (not for long anyway). Plus the oodles of "I just casted focus and my next turn will own you" bosses later on.

If you think about it, several characters can meet (or possibly exceed) Master Spark's damage if you actually get them to 100% ATK/MAG buffs first. It's just that Marisa's Concentrate makes it the most easily viable for her to do it. Especially considering when the boss is weak to an element that is not MYS, or resists MYS.

Well, and Master Spark is still probably more powerful then most things in that case, although the fact that after 1 shot... that's all, folks! Which means only superior because of Concentrate and for FINAL PHASE MUST NUKE INSTANTLY.

[AlexX Unlimited]

I wouldn't drop Marisa because Spark is really useful, but, it wouldn't be a totally bad choice to do so... but, I'd recommend dropping someone other then Marisa.

Well, Yuugi has recently began falling behind due to everything using magic (that being the one thing she can't tank), so if you think I can live on just my current tanks

Spoiler:

Tenshi, Eirin, and Meiling

and you think too much uses magic from this point onward I could bench her for the newcomer.

[Serela]

The fact that she can both tank AND cast a party DEF/MND buff is really useful. Her gauge-filler and SPD down+PAR skills are useful too, but her party buff is what really makes her shine. Great for a defensive party.

Your choice really, you shouldn't have a ton of trouble either way unless you're planning on doing Plus-Disk (In which case she'll prolly REALLY help out with some tough bosses, but I can't tell you for sure. Since I haven't played it yet and all. But it really should.)

[MysTeariousYukari]

For

Spoiler:

Yukari

I would definatly use her as she works similar to a

Spoiler:

back-up Reimu due to both of them having a good party DEF/MND buff

. In fact I almost always had the former out over the latter, and for no good reason :V But I would also keep Marisa as her Asteroid Belt does great damage and her Spark hit records for me, over and over xD

[AlexX Unlimited]

For

Spoiler:

Yukari

I would definatly use her as she works similar to a

Spoiler:

back-up Reimu due to both of them having a good party DEF/MND buff

.

Maybe I should take the insane option and drop Reimu for her. =V Ignore my team is already pretty crazy.

[Serela]

Maybe I should take the insane option and drop Reimu for her. =V Ignore my team is already pretty crazy.

She's a lot more useful then Reimu... if you forget that Reimu has the only multi-heal in the game. The only one that actually heals a significant amount, at least (2 others where the healing is simply a minor add-on). This makes Reimu drastically useful, although it is certainly possible to get by without her.

This girl is really good because unlike Reimu, she can actually stay out and take hits. Plus, when using the 2 characters who increase one of her attack's power, she can deal pretty nice damage (Albeit in a strange way, but still), or instead you can go for MND on levelups instead of MAG and suddenly have someone with even better MND then Patch does.