Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2

[LHCling]

Wait...what? You lost me. D: I just can't help but notice that once you leave, you have to reactivate every switch to gain access to the area beyond the three barriers. So I have to reactivate it...?

Switches retain their current position even after you leave. That, and -cut- dammit.

Sanayoulostme.jpg

[nintendonut888]

Oh, but I want every character I can get. Plus I hear Tenshi is invaluable and borderline broken. And yes, I noticed that switch.

Put it in spoiler tags if you want, but if this is something I have to preplan tell me what it is I have to do and why.

[Serela]

Oh, but I want every character I can get. Plus I hear Tenshi is invaluable and borderline broken. And yes, I noticed that switch.

Put it in spoiler tags if you want, but if this is something I have to preplan tell me what it is I have to do and why.

You don't really need to preplan, since the area is fairly small. First just explore it all you can without messing with switches, and you'll see where you need to start going after you turn off the first switch.

And yes, she is. Invaluble, no, borderline broken, yes. Exactly why I'm not using her this playthrough; having her take 0 damage from everything and switch in a nuker when the boss won't get a chance to attack it... that isn't really a satisfying way to win.

[nintendonut888]

Oh, then I guess you're not talking about this area. :V The area past this "green switch off" barrier was freaking huge, but I found the failsafe unlock. This is the first time in a while that my entire team is almost out of TP.

[Ghaleon]

Not sure exactly where you're stuck. but here goes:

To get tenshi, you have to have every switch turned off, then you use the 12F relay point, and backtrack down the stairs you took to get to the relay point for the first time.

To complete the 3 floors as a whole. You use the relay point, have all switches turned on (the all on switch is right there anyway), pass the triple lock orb thingie, and turn all the switches off (via new switches that you can only access after the relay point), and I think you have to turn them on again. It's really hard to explain.

The key is to treat everything before the relay point completely seperate from everything after, it'll save you a huge headache if you avoid treating it all as one big area.

So get all the corners and secrets before the relay point, ignore the all on switch btw, and then pretend everything up to that point never existed when you're ready to finish the floor (the stuff after). I seem to recall you had to turn the first switch off, then on again, before you could turn the 3rd switch off for the first time.

[nintendonut888]

...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! >_<

I'm going to go see what I unlocked by turning the failsafe thingamajig off, 'kay? X(

Also, I have officially been playing this game for 24 hours. T_T

[Serela]

...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! >_<

I'm going to go see what I unlocked by turning the failsafe thingamajig off, 'kay? X(

Also, I have officially been playing this game for 24 hours. T_T

wait; thats the first Failsafe lock you've undone? Oops, you must have missed one. Don't worry, its the simplest to get and you can do it later.

Anyway, unlocking all 4 Fail-Safe locks will open the door on 12F leading to the boss. You know, the door on 12F that you've been able to reach since the moment you finished 9F.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Donut, I have over 100 hours on my file, and that is somewhat small compared to how many I have put into some games. :V

Honestly, Tenshi isn't as good for me as people say she is. Yes she take 0 from a lot of attacks, but so does Meiling. Tenshi at her best is similar to cutting you down to 3 char slots but in return, some times a boss will waste a turn. My tenshi NEEDS that full buff to take 0s while my Meiling takes 0-1000 from most moves without a buff and since my Meiling is at the point where she has a little over 100k HP that amount of dmg taken is pathetic.

Then there is the detail of purpose past taking 0s in dmg, Tenshi has a 40% chance of Buff Removal with 1 move that will probly do 0, and then she has 2 other moves that will tend to deal 0. Meiling on the other hand has a rather good Self-Target HP healing move and a half-decent healing move the removes ailments and can be used on any ally. On top of that Meiling can also toss out decent dmg to most foes with her 2nd move or good dmg to lower DEF foes that don't have a lot of SPI resistance with her 1st move.

All of that is personal exp from using both of them, and I didn't want to have to drop someone for Tenshi and then have to spend Skill Points on her instead.

Also Donut, the 10F-12F bit is my most hated portion of the game due to the enemies mixed in with the floor setup. But if you found 1 Failsafe Lock, then your nearing the end of that pesky portion of the game. You can do it, just hang in their!

[nintendonut888]

I actually like this stretch of the game. There's always somewhere new to look around in and I actually see the goal I'm gradually heading towards.

Also, I've deactivated all three switches and have found 3 failsafe locks. If I don't find that last one in the last area I haven't explored yet I'm going to be a sad pastry. ;_;

Also, since I've deactivated all the switches, where do I have to go to find Tenshi?

[MysTeariousYukari]

Donut, you enter the labyrinth from the 12F Relay, then run down to 10F. Remember that thing that need the Blue switch on then a Blue thing that needed the Blue Switch Off? Tenshi is past that point, but you also need Green and Red off to get to her.

[Serela]

Also, since I've deactivated all the switches, where do I have to go to find Tenshi?

To get tenshi, you have to have every switch turned off, then you use the 12F relay point, and backtrack down the stairs you took to get to the relay point for the first time.

When you get back to 10F, you'll see that blue dot that requires the switch to be off. Mhmm~

Also, the last failsafe lock... you need the blue switch on I believe. It's above the original switch for Red, which you should have found fairly early in the 10~12F puzzle.

Also, if you haven't seen Flan twice, you are missing her. Same with a Sake Shard. And the events involving a black cat and ghosts, with Patch/Youmu/Rumia/Chen, which will not disappear if you do not have enough battle points with said characters for each of the events.

[nintendonut888]

Welp. I have somehow missed the last failsafe. Also I have seen the black cat and ghosts, but I haven't seen Flandre. Which is REALLY odd because I've explored damn near every place in this maze. ;_;

And are you saying I'm going to need to turn the switches all around again, all because I missed one early on?

;_;

More than my whining, I can't honestly be expected to remember where the earlier switches are. :V







EDIT:


WHAT.

So...there's actually a whole ton of stuff left to do on these floors outside of finding that last failsafe lock (which I STILL don't know where to look for BTW). I have to find Flandre, but also I should have fought a lot more with Rumia and Youmu? And there's something about losing characters if I do something wrong? I just want to be done! ;_;


EDIT 2: Okay, having calmed down/resigned myself to my fate, what counts as "battle points?" Do I just have to have them in my 12 team party, or have them actually fight?

[AlexX Unlimited]

Honestly, Tenshi isn't as good for me as people say she is. Yes she take 0 from a lot of attacks, but so does Meiling. Tenshi at her best is similar to cutting you down to 3 char slots but in return, some times a boss will waste a turn. My tenshi NEEDS that full buff to take 0s while my Meiling takes 0-1000 from most moves without a buff and since my Meiling is at the point where she has a little over 100k HP that amount of dmg taken is pathetic.

At what levels are we talking about and how many skillpoints are invested in each girl and their defenses?

[Krimmydoodle]

So...there's actually a whole ton of stuff left to do on these floors outside of finding that last failsafe lock (which I STILL don't know where to look for BTW). I have to find Flandre, but also I should have fought a lot more with Rumia and Youmu? And there's something about losing characters if I do something wrong? I just want to be done! ;_;


EDIT 2: Okay, having calmed down/resigned myself to my fate, what counts as "battle points?" Do I just have to have them in my 12 team party, or have them actually fight?

The Rumia event is on 9F, by the way.  And there's nothing that's lost forever, so don't worry about screwing anything up to ruin your game as far as recruitment or whatever.

As far as the battle points, characters get one battle point for being in the front four at the start of battle, and one point for being in the front four at the end of battle.  The points do nothing as far as character abilities, and only affect the few events that require battle points (for Chen, Youmu, and Rumia), and that the character with the most battle points is the character who appears on your save file.

Edit: also, if you're desperate enough, there's three useful maps on the Japanese wiki that can help you out.  The parts of the map that are pointed to in light blue text are the four fail-safe locks.

[nintendonut888]

...FUCK.

PLEASE tell me where to find this failsafe I missed. ;_; I spent about an hour flipping switches to go to the one last place I haven't looked in, and it turns out I needed to flip the blue switch ON. ASG;jkl;klj;kljv;lkjv I am so pissed off right now, and if it turned out I wasn't even goingto the right place...

Ya know what? I'm done for tonight. I'm too frustrated to go through that whole rigamarole again, and inferring from the wiki, where that is is actually where I start the process to recruit Flandre. So I've got that, and I have to grind and use Chen, Youmu, and Rumia, all of whom I think are pretty useless...not to mention I'll have to go through that process AGAIN to reach the events to unlock Yuyuko (who I hear is worth all the trouble but with all this I wonder...).

If anything, I'm getting good experience, since I heard the Eientei trio are pretty hard.

[Pesco]

Twinked/hacked saves! Who needs what sort? Send your requests here.

[scherzo]

I find the plus disk to be dissapointing comapred to the original game. Too much grinding required, yes, required. Not to mention there is virtually no story, in addition, the gear, exp, and skillpoint values in all the new content is really screwed up. They really didn't put the same level of effort in having everything balanced in the plus disk IMO. Still though, the game is so good it's still fun anyway. Plus the joinable characters are kinda unique.

I guess I'm the only person here who likes the plus disk content more than the original. Plus disk is much harder than the main game, but that doesn't mean the game is forcing you to grind (at least not until 30F, which is just silly). Rather, you're given a far smaller margin of error to work with. I'm finding that while I could get away with all sorts of sloppy play in the main game, I'm forced to research, formulate targeted strategies, and then execute them flawlessly for plus disk bosses (a great example would be the 21F joinable fight). The plus disk bosses really give a sense of accomplishment for beating them and feel more 'epic' to me.

Honestly, Tenshi isn't as good for me as people say she is. Yes she take 0 from a lot of attacks, but so does Meiling. Tenshi at her best is similar to cutting you down to 3 char slots but in return, some times a boss will waste a turn. My tenshi NEEDS that full buff to take 0s while my Meiling takes 0-1000 from most moves without a buff and since my Meiling is at the point where she has a little over 100k HP that amount of dmg taken is pathetic.

How is that possible? Meiling's MND is below average, and her DEF isn't stratospheric like Tenshi's. She'll be taking plenty of damage even at >50% DEF/MND.

[nintendonut888]

Awlight. I have found and undone the final safelock. You know how? Thanks to good ol' Kanako telling me he discovered a glitch with the game's barriers. If you move onto one that spits you back and press a directional key at exactly the right time, you will turn that direction, and then be shot out the direction opposite of where you're facing. For example, if you move down onto a barrier and press up at the right time, you'll be spat out below the barrier. I used this to bypass the barrier and switch that motherfucker off! Sadly, no matter how much I tried, I could not glitch past the barrier that would lead me to Flandre.

It looks like I still need some leveling to defeat the Eientei trio anyway. Guess this means it's time to do that shit all over again, and find those butterflies of Tenshi's while raising the BP of Rumia, Chen, and Youmu. And you say Orin is now somewhere around these floors?

Maaaan, I'm going to be glad to be done with these three floors.

[Ghaleon]

I guess I'm the only person here who likes the plus disk content more than the original. Plus disk is much harder than the main game, but that doesn't mean the game is forcing you to grind (at least not until 30F, which is just silly). Rather, you're given a far smaller margin of error to work with. I'm finding that while I could get away with all sorts of sloppy play in the main game, I'm forced to research, formulate targeted strategies, and then execute them flawlessly for plus disk bosses (a great example would be the 21F joinable fight). The plus disk bosses really give a sense of accomplishment for beating them and feel more 'epic' to me.

I don't agree at all, it DOES force you to grind. I'm sorry, but I'm not playing incorrectly when the said 21F joinable casts gigaflare and has undefendable damage greater than your tank's max hp. It's just says "level more dur", same with the baal avatar. The other 3 sigil bosses are pretty cool yes, but that's about it IMO. The other bosses are regular every day bosses with no challenge except the 20% health focus mode my next spell WILL kill you, it gets boring really fast when you've seen that for the 3rd time in a row.

I also remember really being excited seeing the items in the next 5 pages, but 3 of them are littered with crap that doesn't even hold a candle to pages 9 and 10, the rest may be good, but not necessarily.

I think the problem with the plus disk is that there is an overall lack of the feeling of progression. Each and every floor you traverse from 1-20 rewards you with new encounters that are more rewarding, filled with treasure that is progressively better, often giving you multiple new joinables after every floor. In the plus disk, a new joinable is a rare thing, 3 of them can be obtained without ever entering floor 21, so they don't even really feel like plus disk content. Not to mention there are only 2 pieces of music that are new. Hell, even the art for the enemies look kinda strange IMO.

[Ghaleon]

Awlight. I have found and undone the final safelock. You know how? Thanks to good ol' Kanako telling me he discovered a glitch with the game's barriers. If you move onto one that spits you back and press a directional key at exactly the right time, you will turn that direction, and then be shot out the direction opposite of where you're facing. For example, if you move down onto a barrier and press up at the right time, you'll be spat out below the barrier. I used this to bypass the barrier and switch that motherfucker off! Sadly, no matter how much I tried, I could not glitch past the barrier that would lead me to Flandre.

It looks like I still need some leveling to defeat the Eientei trio anyway. Guess this means it's time to do that shit all over again, and find those butterflies of Tenshi's while raising the BP of Rumia, Chen, and Youmu. And you say Orin is now somewhere around these floors?

Maaaan, I'm going to be glad to be done with these three floors.

You're the one who said you enjoyed it >=P. But yeah, those 3 are the longest feeling section of the game..Well, other than the brutal grinding needed for floor 30 in floor 27.

Orin has a few events in those floors, I don't remember if all 4 were there, or just some of them. I think it was 4 though. she doesn't actually join you yet though, that's later on. After beating the joinable in the floor that's full of squares, Orin should appear near the top right corner of that same square-floor, if she doesn't, you missed some events.

I don't remember if you said you have Sanae yet or not, but if not, go get her, that foe enemy should be cake now.

[nintendonut888]

I enjoyed it until I realized I missed a failsafe lock. It's the same thing that makes the Water Temple in OoT a scrappy level: If you do it all correctly, you never need to backtrack. If you mess up one small thing though, you have to redo everything you've done just to fix the one thing you made a mistake with.

My biggest problem is getting those BP for those three characters. I used Youmu for a while, but she was never on my front 4 much, same with Chen, and I ditched Rumia as soon as someone better came along. I never thought I'd ask this, but...is there an easy way to hack the game to give these characters more BP? I'm really not up to grinding on floor 1 for an hour or so to gain the necessary BP to recruit Yuyu, and I'd be surprised if I am tomorrow.

[Pesco]

Cheat engine news.

Battle count address 00121FD0

Individual stats of characters are stored all over the place and will vary with everyone's game. But was is constant is the relative placing in memory. So far, found a character's tp, hp, sp and only Reimu's battle points counter. Here's how the spacing looks
Reimu's hp 01C129E8
Reimu's sp 01C129F0
Reimu's tp 01C129F8
Reimu's bp 01C12B9C

[Krimmydoodle]

Don't set aside time to grind out their BP, just include it in any grinding you need for bosses.  If you have to sit around and dedicate grind time to up your stats, just swap out one of your front four for one of those three (or all of those three if they can handle it).

Or you can just wuss out and hack it.

Also, that barrier glitch explains something that happened to me before.  The game screwed up, I got stuck behind a barrier, and I had to rewalk the long path that is the path from 29F to 30F.  I was fairly pissed.

[Pesco]

Forgot to add: The address I've listed there is Reimu's current hp, sp and tp. Her max values of those stats are obv in the next address slot. The thing with trying to find bp is that you're pretty screwed unless you have a starting point like an address or rough estimate.

[nintendonut888]

Hmm. Turns out I already have enough BP to trigger Rumia's event. Maybe this won't be so impossible after all. I'd better wait until I have enough BP to do Youmu's event before I go start the path to get Flandre though, because then I'd have to go through ALL THAT SWITCH SWITCHEROO AGAIN, and to get both Flan and Tenshi I'll have to do it at least two times more as it is.

[Jyazen]

Just one minor question to the more experienced people:
Is there a limit to Element Affinity? I've been raising Affinity a lot (especially on the nearly no DEF/MND girls) and is now at 300-ish affinity on some, with it being 500-600-ish with items. Was just wondering if there's a max so I won't waste my preciousssss SP if it, say, maxes out at 500 or something.

No max, but at some point it becomes so expensive to raise them that it's simply impractical.

Okay, thanks. I was just wondering because the english wiki said 500 whereas the japanese wiki gives example till 400 only, so I was curious if there was an effective max to it that raising above won't do anything to the calculations.

I'm off to fight the v2s and then the boss rush  :V

[Ghaleon]

Hmm. Turns out I already have enough BP to trigger Rumia's event. Maybe this won't be so impossible after all. I'd better wait until I have enough BP to do Youmu's event before I go start the path to get Flandre though, because then I'd have to go through ALL THAT SWITCH SWITCHEROO AGAIN, and to get both Flan and Tenshi I'll have to do it at least two times more as it is.

Yeah, I dumped Youmu really really early, but managed to snag enough bp for her somehow. The BP requirements for Orin's thing really isn't too bad.

The BP requirement to get kaggy on the other hand...ugh.

[Krimmydoodle]

The BP requirement to get kaggy on the other hand...ugh.

There was a BP requirement for her?

[Ghaleon]

There was a BP requirement for her?

STFU >=P.

I had to run around for over 2 hours farming exp for sanae, Eirin, Mokou, and Reisen. I didn't like Mokou or Reisen at all, so they had none. Sanae was more for bosses than actual trash clearing, so she had none. And I didn't bother using Eirin either for my first game because I didn't notice the overhealing part of the her spell for some reason.

[Fishin]

BP is pretty easy to hack if you know how it works (ie you get one for being in the starting lineup of a battle and one for being in the finishing lineup - use Increased Value by).  I'm not a huge fan of Tenshi, my main gripe with her being that she doesn't really contribute anything besides soaking up damage (Meiling can heal herself and cure status effects on others, Remilia does respectable damage, Komachi has awesome debuffs) and maybe dispelling buffs with Sword of Rapture, but she is the best at completely nullifying attacks if you can get her to that point.