Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2

[Inactive person]

I need some suggestions to maybe improve my main party.  (I just arrived at F15 and I have all the characters except

Spoiler:

Orin (Dunno if I'm strong enough)

)

My main party includes :

Spoiler:

Meiling for my main tank (I find her easier to use then Tenshi)
Ran for the.. ATK/MAG and DEF/MND buff
Reimu for the Healing and Barrier spell
Patchouli for nuking
Tenshi for backup tank when Meiling went down
Sakuya for SPD buff
Marisa for destroying things
Remilia for partially tanking and attacking
Sanae for healing and Miracle Fruit
Aya for swapping characters and SPD buff
Youmu for extra damages
Yuugi for tank and hitting with Three Steps and the other one

(I play non-translated one cause I can read Japanese anyway and I'm not really sure of English translated spell names)

I also want to add

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

because she's my favorite character but I don't think I have the space for her.  So..  Any suggestions?

[Tankatron]

Well gee! It's about time I reached the 30F. I'm pretty sure that I'm supposed to stay on floor 29 for now to grind. Anyone know the recommended level for the floor 30 enemies?

[Milkyway64]

Well gee! It's about time I reached the 30F. I'm pretty sure that I'm supposed to stay on floor 29 for now to grind. Anyone know the recommended level for the floor 30 enemies?

Not a level recommendation, but no, not 29. There is NO REASON to do your end game grinding anywhere other than floor 27.

[mlkio]

Well gee! It's about time I reached the 30F. I'm pretty sure that I'm supposed to stay on floor 29 for now to grind. Anyone know the recommended level for the floor 30 enemies?

The min level is about 350 I think, but you might want to wait till 400 since only rinnosukke and yukkari is worth fighting anyways. Also floor 26 has zun hats so you might want to stay there for a while.

[nintendonut888]

Yay, I recruited my first character! ^_^ *hops up and down* I recruited Meiling, but Chen ran me through when I tried to fight her.

I should ask now to get out of the way: Characters who don't fight don't get exp, do they? Not only that, but only the ones who are in battle when the opponents are beaten get the exp, right?

[Krimmydoodle]

Everyone will get xp, all the time.  I believe specifically, front four get 100%, reserve eight get 90%, and anyone chilling in the SDM, as well as anyone you have yet to recruit, will get 80%.  Or something along those lines.  It's fairly negligible, so pretty much anyone at any point in the game will be okay to use with little dedicated investment, and even if you've just recruited them, they'll be just fine.  They may require a bit of skill point allocation as well, but getting a decent amount of skill levels on a new character is really cheap anyway.

Although it's really painful when you recruit plus-disc characters and you have to sit down and allocate a few hundred level bonuses to try them out.

[nintendonut888]

That's a relief. Also I've defeated Chen and made it to floor 2 (where I was very relieved to learn that there are continue points so I don't have to traipse through everywhere every time I start). This game is not going to be one of those that I'll beat in a few days I can see, but it's also one I would be willing to put in a long commitment for.

[LHCling]

Reserves (or the ones in the "Back Row") seem to be getting 100% on my end. Yes, I've been playing since a few days ago as well  :V

On that note, I hate 10-12F. Seriously, it's more annoying than frustrating.

[Kanako Yasaka]

7F is also really annoying. I've never been one for trial-and-error teleport mazes.

[trancehime]

Not a level recommendation, but no, not 29. There is NO REASON to do your end game grinding anywhere other than floor 27.

My friend, I would like to disagree. 30F becomes a great place to level when you hit Lv400+. The enemy drops there are also among the best things you can get in the game, like the Psi Gun, the Rhododendron Dress, and the Necronomicon.

Spoiler:

You only have to worry about Utsuho Ver2, Chen Ver3, and Alice Ver3 at that stage. Maybe Rinnosuke Ver3, but he's actually easier at that stage than the first time you fought him. Mokou Ver3 and Yuyuko Ver3 might be scary targets, as well.

To be fair, I only learned to love 30F once I got to levels past 600 when 27F just wasn't cutting it for me, I enjoy getting millions and millions of EXP in under fifteen minutes of OHKOing trash there.

61/100, Lv4550.

[Pesco]

Anyway, after figuring out how to save, learning the hard way that dying isn't the way to return to Gensokyo, and watching everyone get decimated by kedamas, it's time to try some more...

Chaore. Do you remember back at that time when we talked about Donut getting this game? Fucking called it .

[nintendonut888]

Anyway, I just got ⑨'d. :< It FELT like I was doing good against Cirno, but she...just...wouldn't...go...down. Also, since I have finals that I should actually worry about, I should stop playing for tonight.

I'll be back...

EDIT: lol one grinding session later and one last try barely netted me a win over Cirno. I have to hand it to these old-fashioned RPGs, they really give you a sense of accomplishment for defeating a boss.

[Axel Ryman]

Ok so 12F...

Spoiler:

Kaguya, Reisen, and Eirin...what order should I go after and what party members should I use?

[AlexX Unlimited]

Ok so 12F...

Spoiler:

Kaguya, Reisen, and Eirin...what order should I go after and what party members should I use?

Spoiler:

Reisen is totally up to you. She is always vulnerable to PAR, so if you can keep her perpetually under that effect she is not threat and you can ignore her. If you don't, like me, you can try and take her out first. She has about 175,000 HP.

Kaguya and Eirin you MUST take out at about the same time. Eirin has about 240,000 HP and Kaguya has about 120,000, and if you take out one first the other spams either Astronomical Entombing or Hourai Barrage, which both devistate and potentially instakill your entire party. They will also use their respective super moves once their HP is in the red, which means once you've dealt around 90k damage to Kaguya and 200k-210k damage to Eirin. Either way you will want to be using multi-hit spells on them to the best of your ability and single-targets on Eirin until she starts to get close to her deathbed, at which point, if Reisen is still alive, you can focus them on her so that they will both die to Royal Flare or something. If one dies first don't panic; just focus all possible attack power on the other and finish them before they can get a turn.

One last bit of advice: Don't use debuffs on the party other than PAR. if at least 3 status effects are on any number of party members (whether its 3 on one person or one on all three), Kaguya will use Buddha's Stone Bowl, which gives them all a HUGE statubuff. Its possible to win still, as I still managed to win after she cast it, but its a problem you're better off not having to deal with in the first place.

[orinrin]

Is it a bad thing that I am pouring all my skill points into Cirno, because I want her to become the strongest?  (Perfect Freeze is rape.)  Right now I am trying to figure out why I can't kill Yuugi, because I deal pretty much 0 damage to her.

[trancehime]

Is it a bad thing that I am pouring all my skill points into Cirno, because I want her to become the strongest?  (Perfect Freeze is rape.)  Right now I am trying to figure out why I can't kill Yuugi, because I deal pretty much 0 damage to her.

She has around 60000 HP. KO3S hurts, so be careful.
Her weakness is Spirit elemental, and she resists Heat and Mystic.
Asteroid Belt and Dark Side of the Moon are good ways to deal with Yuugi's defenses.

Try using Cirno's SPD debuff and Reimu's PAR attack.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Is it a bad thing that I am pouring all my skill points into Cirno, because I want her to become the strongest?

I did that at first with Chen to help her damage output since she could smack most bosses like 4 times before the enemy could move, but its really a better idea to spread it around best you can.

Oh, and don't bother investing skillpoints into her defenses, as she's too fragile for it to be worthwhile. Speed I think is a lost cause too. Bad stats stay bad, so you're really best not investing in them at all at this point in the game.

EDIT: On the subject of my own game, you all told me I'd regret using greenie because everything from my point onward (16F) would spam Djinn Storm and make her impossible to use. While I can't beat the boss of the floor in question, she doesn't spam it anywhere near that much and, while certainly crippling, its a problem that affects ALL my characters and not just her. Not having healing for a while is bad, yes, but I can at least compensate by swapping people around since they also get healed while on the bench. I have more than one character for most of the jobs in my team for a reason.

[Deranged]

Is it a bad thing that I am pouring all my skill points into Cirno, because I want her to become the strongest?  (Perfect Freeze is rape.)  Right now I am trying to figure out why I can't kill Yuugi, because I deal pretty much 0 damage to her.

Cirno and Reimu's attacks are composite (ATK+MAG VS DEF+MND). Yuugi's MND is pretty bad but her DEF is sky high, so composite attacks aren't going to do much to her.

As also said, she's somewhat resistant to FIR and MYS, so your best damage dealer will likely be Patchy's Silent Selene. Alice's Seeker Dolls also does decent damage, while Marisa and Rumia still do okay damage with Magic Missile and Moonlight Ray despite the MYS resistance. Your main goal is to keep these 4 alive somehow and keep them spamming attacks.

EDIT: On the subject of my own game, you all told me I'd regret using greenie because everything from my point onward (16F) would spam Djinn Storm and make her impossible to use. While I can't beat the boss of the floor in question, she doesn't spam it anywhere near that much and, while certainly crippling, its a problem that affects ALL my characters and not just her. Not having healing for a while is bad, yes, but I can at least compensate by swapping people around since they also get healed while on the bench. I have more than one character for most of the jobs in my team for a reason.

16F boss uses Djinn Storm no more (and possibly less) than 2 times. I did a large writeup on the first page if you want more details.

And I settled that debate by... well, using all four of the main healers. It's not like healing is the only thing any of them can do after all. Though admittedly I have a very defensive playstyle against bosses.

[AlexX Unlimited]

16F boss uses Djinn Storm no more (and possibly less) than 2 times. I did a large writeup on the first page if you want more details.

Honestly, advice for bosses from here on out would be lovely. Recommended levels would be nice too (Reimu is 77 right now), since I'm pretty much past the point where strategy can trump a boss even if you're below the recommended level (I know its pretty possible early on if you get lucky enough to not have to deal with heavier attacks too often, but around F10 that ceases to be the case...).

And I settled that debate by... well, using all four of the main healers. It's not like healing is the only thing any of them can do after all. Though admittedly I have a very defensive playstyle against bosses.

Yeah, this is why I hesitate to drop medicinebitch. Overhealing the tanks, even the low HP one (and herself for that matter), really goes a long way in helping you survive.

EDIT: I'm starting to think I should learn how to fix up wikis... Looking at the character list firebitch's description makes her sound like a terrible character. Granted, there are a couple other of durable casters by the time she joins, but she's the only one focused on almost absolute offense (Reimu and goldenbitch are pretty much entirely support), meaning she can stay in the active party to dish out impressive amounts of damage for a very good while, even in the dreaded slot #2 if you've put a bit of skillpoint levels into her defenses.

[Ghaleon]

I need some suggestions to maybe improve my main party.  (I just arrived at F15 and I have all the characters except

Spoiler:

Orin (Dunno if I'm strong enough)

)

My main party includes :

Spoiler:

Meiling for my main tank (I find her easier to use then Tenshi)
Ran for the.. ATK/MAG and DEF/MND buff
Reimu for the Healing and Barrier spell
Patchouli for nuking
Tenshi for backup tank when Meiling went down
Sakuya for SPD buff
Marisa for destroying things
Remilia for partially tanking and attacking
Sanae for healing and Miracle Fruit
Aya for swapping characters and SPD buff
Youmu for extra damages
Yuugi for tank and hitting with Three Steps and the other one

(I play non-translated one cause I can read Japanese anyway and I'm not really sure of English translated spell names)

I also want to add

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

because she's my favorite character but I don't think I have the space for her.  So..  Any suggestions?

Your party setup is quite similar to my own. I don't use Youmu though, I also have autumn harvest lady because healing is guud, and I find she does it better than your other healer (I use her more for buffing really, but I find I just can't keep her alive on a boss. I don't know, she's cursed, she goes down easier than anybody), I used your party buffer for awhile, but dumped her for kaggy. At the time I didn't think her buff affects the ENTIRE party (derp moment), probably woudln't have done that if I had noticed, Kaggy is excellent in combination with Patchy though.

Last I don't have Yuugi, I have uhh...someone instead *thinking*, Oh! Alice...

Anyway my own party setup isn't perfect in my opinion, I'd dump a character or two in favor of a couple other ones, but I'm stubborn so too bad for me.

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

is a character I really wanted to be good too, but when I first saw her, I figured she'd be useless because of dth attacks not being able to affect bosses, otherwise her stats were basically "Almost like patchy but not as extreme", so better pretty much everything, but lower MND and MAG, with speed that is only barely better. In otherwords, I figured she'd be a glass cannon without Patchy's OOMPH due to poorer mag, and death affects.

HOWEVER, her big spell has one of the biggest multipliers in the game (3X(magX3) - (T.MNDX0.5)) or whatever, absolutely amazing. I'm also not sure, but lowering the delay bar on her smaller attacks is probably nice too (though you lack a slower just like me, so the effect doesn't benefit as much as it could, I myself never bothered to add a slower since every relatively difficult boss always seemed immune to status debuffs for me, I just gave up bothering to try at a certain point).

I personally don't like Youmu much, she just seems like a watered down Remilia with area attacks IMO. Her single attacks don't really top Remi's for me (even her big one, Youmu's lower atk, and lower spd, make it so that it really doesn't outdamage spearing dps wise, despite the huge increase in sp cost). While she might be great for trash, I have a feeling Yuyuko would be better (if not the best in the game...

Spoiler:

except

for Flandre probably).

[Ghaleon]

EDIT: lol one grinding session later and one last try barely netted me a win over Cirno. I have to hand it to these old-fashioned RPGs, they really give you a sense of accomplishment for defeating a boss.

Really? I find most RPGS are trivial to the point where beating bosses makes me feel like I stole candy from a baby. This one DOES give satisfaction though. I have had some prideful moments beating some bosses in this game.

Alot of people say grinding solves everything, but you CAN beat every manditory boss up to floor 16 or something without grinding. Some of the optional ones too (Nitori for example is often considered a manditory grind boss).

Now if you're using guides to clear thru floors faster than you naturally would otherwise, you probably have to grind. Also, some bosses, if you aren't on par with level, will badluckrape you for it. The next boss you're going to fight for example, basically says "too bad you can't win you suck" if she casts aoe poison on your party first thing in the fight, or spams her aoe attacks too often.

I really suggest people try not to grind if they can't beat a boss easily though, try again and again. You'll be doing yourself an injustice by trivilizing an encounter. Finding an RPG this difficult (without actually needing you to grind) is stupidly rare, savor it.

I stopped playing this game for the last few weeks, feel like starting again.

Anybody know of a way to play in window mode, but resize the window? I *REALLY* hate how small it is.

[Pesco]

I read on one of the earlier poosh threads that the window sizes were hardcoded.

:suwakodwi:

[Serela]

This game is not going to be one of those that I'll beat in a few days I can see, but it's also one I would be willing to put in a long commitment for.

It took me 50 hours on my first play, until I beat the Final Boss. And then of course, there is a whole bunch of post-game content, even if you don't consider Plus-Disk!

It was worth every minute, though, and I can't wait to do Plus-Disk... because for some reason I wanted to do a second play with new characters before I did Plus-Disk. I think this team is working a lot better, and NOT cheesing bosses with Tenshi makes it much more satisfying~

On that note, I hate 10-12F. Seriously, it's more annoying than frustrating.

Don't worry, that is probably the worst part of the game. Just bear in mind you are doing 3 floors at once. 13F has an weird gimmick too, but can be fun; and if you REALLY dislike it, all the solutions for 13F are on the wiki.

And yes, if you don't explore everywhere in 10~12F puzzle, you'll miss out on not one but TWO characters. If you are neither a completionist, or looking to play post-game content, it doesn't matter too much though.

Other then that, the only floor with much irritation is 18F, and the sheer fact that you've almost reached the end will get you through.

Now if you're using guides to clear thru floors faster than you naturally would otherwise, you probably have to grind. Also, some bosses, if you aren't on par with level, will badluckrape you for it.

Yeah, speeding through with a guide isn't a good idea. You want to explore every inch of every floor so that
A.You get all the treasures and events (Missing out on characters or awesome equipment will make you go -sadface-)
B.You will have to do much much less grinding

Using the 13F guide to get all the solutions will still be fine as long as you explore the entire floor, though. Even if you do it the normal way, I'd recommend looking at the guide afterwards to pick up the awesome equipment the floor has to offer.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Reccomended level for 16F beech?

Team and strategy info:

Spoiler:

I'm currently setting up Tenshi and Eirin to be the big two tankers reccomended in the first page of the topic. I swapped Yuugi for Eirin temporarily because poor Yuugi doesn't stand too much of a chance in this fight. I'm going to swap Mokou for Orin since Orin's Needle Mountain will help a lot more than Fujiwara Volcano. Nitori I'm going to take some time to try and buff the SPI Res of (WND is fine), as since she has my hardest-hitting NTR move outside of Patchy (and is physical to boot) I'm going to assume she'll be my hardest hitter in the fight. I'm not sure who to drop to make room for Reisen, because Patchy and Marisa can break Yukari's obscenely high MND, Reimu and Ran are manditory for buffing, and Meiling is really important backup in case Tenshi or Eirin goes down. I don't want to drop Chen since she has high physical damage output, which works well on Yukari (not to mention incredibly fast SP regeneration). Sanae will be my main healer, and stay on the bench anytime she is not healing or buffing (both to minimize damage taken and to restore SP after djinn storms more easily).

[LHCling]

Don't worry, that is probably the worst part of the game.

That's all I wanted to hear :earplug:

Anyway, I got

Spoiler:

Tenshi

(who seriously looks gamebreaking to me), and

Spoiler:

Flan

disappeared off somewhere; I haven't been bothered checking around for her yet. Because I'm worried about "The Trio" of 12F. I've worked out most of it (I think), it's just... I feel underlevelled for the battle (currently have Reimu hovering at Lv50; everyone else is give or take a bit). Well, I should probably look for her first since she's probably easier  :V

[scherzo]

For people annoyed by the exploring aspect of the game, maps for all the floors are available here. I relied on these heavily in my playthrough (my computer is so old that exploring large maps actually slows down the game significantly. You might want to watch out for this).

On recommended level ranges, I found the japanese wiki to be accurate up to and including the final boss, at which point it starts to be too conservative. The sheer amount of resources you have late game makes boss fights easier than they might appear at first glance.

[Ghaleon]

For people annoyed by the exploring aspect of the game, maps for all the floors are available here. I relied on these heavily in my playthrough (my computer is so old that exploring large maps actually slows down the game significantly. You might want to watch out for this).

On recommended level ranges, I found the japanese wiki to be accurate up to and including the final boss, at which point they start to become too conservative. The sheer amount of resources you have late game makes boss fights easier than they might appear at first glance.

Except for Baal avatar, which is a bald faced lie IIRC >=P

:suwakodwi:

/wrists

[Serela]

That's all I wanted to hear :earplug:

Anyway, I got

Spoiler:

Tenshi

(who seriously looks gamebreaking to me), and

Spoiler:

Flan

disappeared off somewhere; I haven't been bothered checking around for her yet. Because I'm worried about "The Trio" of 12F. I've worked out most of it (I think), it's just... I feel underlevelled for the battle (currently have Reimu hovering at Lv50; everyone else is give or take a bit). Well, I should probably look for her first since she's probably easier  :V

As long as

Spoiler:

Flan

has been encountered and has run away twice so far, you've gone as far as you can with her. As for Ms.Gamebreaking... yes. She is. She really really is. This is why I'm not using her anymore  :V

You should be able to do the boss at that point, but it is tough. Reimu and Cirno's PAR attacks help, as does using 2 windows Calculators to make sure

Spoiler:

Eirin and Kaguya

Spoiler:

die at the same time so one doesn't PANICNUKE you.

With Reimu's party buff, or Minoriko's, you should be able to reduce damage to 0 fairly easily on people who don't have crappy MND. But Minoriko's buff is single-target and Reimu's is SP intensive, so it might not be terribly helpful.

Also, do not put more then 3 total debuffs on the three of them (1 each or 3 on one, doesn't matter), or a party buff will be used on them, which will majorly suck for you.

[scherzo]

Except for Baal avatar, which is a bald faced lie IIRC >=P

I'm not sure why you think that boss is bs? I beat Baal avatar on my first try at lvl 200, whereas the recommended range is 210-250. This is actually a good example, as his exclusive use of physical attacks / one status effect makes him easy to prep for.

[AlexX Unlimited]

On recommended level ranges, I found the japanese wiki to be accurate up to and including the final boss, at which point it starts to be too conservative.

The wiki in question is composed of moonrunes and one of the worst translations I've seen google translate attempt. I honestly wouldn't know where to start to look for the one I'm looking for, and the fact its a boss 3/4 through the game just makes it harder to find... Perhaps we should put this information on the english wiki sometime?

Anyhow, searching back in this topic a bit NeoGenesis suggested 85, so I'll just grind for a bit since Reimu is 79 now.