Labyrinth of Touhou discussion thread #2

[Ghaleon]

Nuke him out of his first form and save marisa for his lightning form. Have hong as your tank and don't attack him if he's in fire form. He's weakest as fire and you should use that chance to heal up and buff with ran.

Err, why save marisa for lightning form? Lightning form is weak to nature damage. Marisa will do extra damage to his spirit form (which is very light blue if I recall correctly).

I personally like to save marisa for his final form though.

[mlkio]

Because his lighting for is his most dangerous form. As long as he isn't strong enough to kill anyone, he'll go down.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Hmmm...

Spoiler:

Lightning is what f***ed me over last time... he KO'ed everyone cept Reimu during that form and his 1st form, mostly lightning. Reimu died to the next form, spirit, but only due to haveing been under the effects of PAR for like 7~ of the bosses turns...

Can ailments kick in if the attack causing it does 0 Dmg? Cause whenever I was playing, and an ailment move was used and dealt a 0 the ailment never kicked in for allies and for foes.

Spoiler:

Like Cirno's Diamond Blizzard for example, if it does a 0 the foe won't get hit with PAR, same for Wriggle and her Comet on Earth as well as Firefly Thingie, I have never had them Poison if they dealt 0, yet once they started causing Dmg, Poison was very common for me...

Also,

Spoiler:

could someone tell me the SPD stat of the 18F boss, and any notable bosses that appear after? This includes the Final. If I know the SPD/Speed stat, then I know when I stand a good chance of beating that boss, level wise. Out run the boss with like 4+ chars by a decent amount, and you have practicly won:D

Thanks to everyone for you help thus far, I wouldn't have gotten this far this fast without your great input:D *offers cookies to everyone who has posted in this topic, 1st part and current part, so far.*

[Serela]

Can ailments kick in if the attack causing it does 0 Dmg? Cause whenever I was playing, and an ailment move was used and dealt a 0 the ailment never kicked in for allies and for foes.

Spoiler:

Like Cirno's Diamond Blizzard for example, if it does a 0 the foe won't get hit with PAR, same for Wriggle and her Comet on Earth as well as Firefly Thingie, I have never had them Poison if they dealt 0, yet once they started causing Dmg, Poison was very common for me...

Also,

Spoiler:

could someone tell me the SPD stat of the 18F boss, and any notable bosses that appear after? This includes the Final. If I know the SPD/Speed stat, then I know when I stand a good chance of beating that boss, level wise. Out run the boss with like 4+ chars by a decent amount, and you have practicly won:D

Ailments should still kick in if you deal 0 damage. Also, the speed is around 420~ if I remember right... I wouldn't count on trying to outspeed him, except maybe with Chen or Aya.

[mlkio]

I never really had problems with the floor 16 or 18 boss. Hong, reimu and that minokke or whatever is the team I used pretty much throughtout the entire game. Side note, use cirno. She along with reimu are exceeding good against most trash mobs. Both of them can aoe stun and with good recovery items can keep stunning while the other focuses. It should work very well on floor 19. For floor 20, use reimu, yuugi, cirno and patchy. It's easy exp with this team when you can't kill them normally.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Yup, I was right... Firebitch managed to completely tear me apart despite being 5 levels over the reccomended amount and having Marisa's Spark in reserve for her special mode (she died long before I had a chance to let loose with the attack, even after bringing her out with plenty of time left on the boss's active gauge).

EDIT: I don't need advice, as I know the right way to fight her. The issue is likely in my strategy (I DID make the mistake of accidentally getting greenbitch killed fairly early in the fight, after all... and after a couple rounds I realized why using Megawatt and Knockout in Three Steps was an incredibly stupid idea).

EDIT2: Spoilerness because I need something addressed...

Spoiler:

Is it normal for Eirin to be doing such crappy damage? Nitori could easily break 24,000 damage on Mokou with Illusion Waterfall, which I assumed was because Mokou is weak to CLD, but Eirin's Mercury Sea barely managed to do over 7000 damage to her. heck, I was eventually forced to reduce her to a healer and semi-tank since her damage output was so poor.

EDIT3: Beat her second try. Apparently Megawatt isn't actually fire-based (aquabitch must have been suffering from heavy attack reductions the first time to make me think it was, though Illusion Waterfall still hits the boss like a freaking freight train), and I discovered I did better when I prepped to weather the storm once rather than try to just beat it (after her indication move she gets herself half a meter back, while after she uses her nuke it empties completely, giving me enough time to Master Spark and Megawatt away what was apparently her last 90k-100k HP).

[Anima Zero]

Reimu lv206, still raging over floor 22 guardian.  When it decides to spam Ether Flare and Ultimate Light Cannon for 12-13k to all practically half or more of the turns it gets (Even with a proper defense buff in place), is ridiculously fast, and uses Destroy Magic every 3rd turn, it becomes a little too hard to try mounting any reliable offensive assault without having to swap to random junk characters to take the Destroy Magic casting .

[Deranged]

EDIT2: Spoilerness because I need something addressed...

Spoiler:

Is it normal for Eirin to be doing such crappy damage? Nitori could easily break 24,000 damage on Mokou with Illusion Waterfall, which I assumed was because Mokou is weak to CLD, but Eirin's Mercury Sea barely managed to do over 7000 damage to her. heck, I was eventually forced to reduce her to a healer and semi-tank since her damage output was so poor.

Spoiler:

Mokou and Flan have really really bad defenses, the former especially if you stat-down her. Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall damage calculations specializes in doing large damage to low defense enemies, while Mercury Sea damage calculations is tuned towards doing better damage to high defense enemies, as well as being overall worse damage calcs to balance it having the ATK-down effect.

This actually tends to make Nitori the best CLD-element user for random encounters, since the majority of CLD-weak enemies are usually defensively weak too. Having a NTR attack for CLD-resistant groups and a reliable single-targetter helps too.

[Serela]

I wish the 2.05 patch was the official one instead of 2.04. Because apparently Nitori's Megawatt Gun only has
1.25((ATKx5)-(T.DEF/2) in 2.04 and below, instead of
1.25((ATKx8)-(T.DEF/2) in 2.05. Note that ATK multiplier.

That's the difference between a great attack and a great nuke.  Still going to keep using her at LEAST until I get 15F girl, then I'll see how I like her so far.

[AlexX Unlimited]

I wish the 2.05 patch was the official one instead of 2.04. Because apparently Nitori's Megawatt Gun only has
1.25((ATKx5)-(T.DEF/2) in 2.04 and below, instead of
1.25((ATKx8)-(T.DEF/2) in 2.05. Note that ATK multiplier.

I was wondering why Illusion Waterfall was hurting firebitch for so much more... D=

I still think she's a great character though, and even if its a tad nerfed compared to what we thought its still a good move for enemies with high defenses.

[Anima Zero]

22F Sigil Guardian taken down with Reimu at lv219.  Go freaking figure luck wants to laugh in my face as I only saw Ether Flare and Ultimate Light Cannon one time each and Cry of Anguish was never used .

Nobody died thanks to having a pretty steady strategy that worked out like a charm.

Let's see what it unlocked so far...a ver 2 Bloodstained Seal boss on 21F and the southern circle on 25F which lead to treasure, but no sigil guardian.

...Let me guess, I'm gonna have to wipe out either the 21F or 24F Sigil Guardian, aren't I xD?

[Milkyway64]

22F Sigil Guardian taken down with Reimu at lv219.  Go freaking figure luck wants to laugh in my face as I only saw Ether Flare and Ultimate Light Cannon one time each and Cry of Anguish was never used .

Nobody died thanks to having a pretty steady strategy that worked out like a charm.

Let's see what it unlocked so far...a ver 2 Bloodstained Seal boss on 21F and the southern circle on 25F which lead to treasure, but no sigil guardian.

...Let me guess, I'm gonna have to wipe out either the 21F or 24F Sigil Guardian, aren't I xD?

I was pretty sure the floor 22 guardian did it, but yeah, looks like you're going after one of them now.

Burninator is easier, so stay away from floor 21 for now.

[Tankatron]

Maybe I'm cursed or something. Least I'm past those dreaded stairs now.

Well does anyone know if you need all the extra characters in order to fight the true 30F final boss? I can't find an item on floor 22 needed to get a certain character on F25. I check the spot but no luck and I get repelled by the barrier so I don't have it.

As long as I don't need her then it's all good.

[Krimmydoodle]

You do, because you're required to have all 40 characters before you can fight one of the midbosses on 30F, which you have to beat to get to the boss on 30F.

Also, there's no character on 25F.  If you're talking about 24F, are you sure you've checked the spot where the 22F item is?  (By which I mean, I'm expecting you to have checked a map that tells you where it is.)  If you haven't checked a map, and you're simply worried because you've explored 22F and haven't found the item, it's behind a sigil that you wouldn't have cleared the first time you explore 22F.

[Tankatron]

Yeah in all honesty I'm not really too sure how the heck I messed that up.
I somehow just failed at reading the map on the google-translated wiki and was looking in the totally wrong place. Yes I did mean 24F.

All in all, complete fail on my part.

[Anima Zero]

I was pretty sure the floor 22 guardian did it, but yeah, looks like you're going after one of them now.

Burninator is easier, so stay away from floor 21 for now.

Burninator easier indeed.  For laughs, I tried it out.  Party wipe first attempt (Oh god Flowing Hellfire you are NOT my friend!).

Second attempt preparation included equipping Remi, 18F character, Reimu, and one other person with plenty of FIR affinity equips as well as spending the skill points I had (~300-400k) to boost the heck outta Remi's FIR affinity.

Everyone survived Flowing Hellfire this time (Barely).  Buffs up as usual...oh god it still hurts I may have to grind for more skill points to put into MND/FIR affinity when I die.

...Or should I say, I might have added more characters to my party that could cause PAR with their skills instead.  Turns out Burninator is quite vulnerable to PAR.  7F girl's 3rd skill pretty much meant I could keep it in near permanent lockdown.  It did fail to hit with PAR once, but I managed to survive boss's next turn.

Remi + 15F optional pretty much killed the boss thanks to being able to keep PAR on it.

Got what I could from floor 25.  Seems like I do have to take out that floor 21 Sigil Guardian if I want to get anywhere.

Great, I get to figure out how to not get crushed by 21F Sigil Guardian's Demon-Slashing Dance while I grind up for said boss.

[Milkyway64]

Power through it. Can you survive 50,000 damage? No? Then kill it fast when it gets lowish on HP.

However, if you must take the hit, use expendable squishies in the first two slots and keep your tanks/damage dealers in back. Demon Slashing dance is a row attack, so SOMEONE will survive.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Is it just me, or is fire an incredibly common element for bosses to use?

Still on Floor 15 right now, but if the bosses and guardians really do use fire that commonly I'm thinking it might be helpful to use the boss I just got from F12 (and unlike the one on F15, I actually like her).

[Ghaleon]

Is it just me, or is fire an incredibly common element for bosses to use?

Still on Floor 15 right now, but if the bosses and guardians really do use fire that commonly I'm thinking it might be helpful to use the boss I just got from F12 (and unlike the one on F15, I actually like her).

I wouldn't say fire is a common element as a whole. But all the enemies that have absolutely nothing but ONE element, always seem to be fire.

[AlexX Unlimited]

I wouldn't say fire is a common element as a whole. But all the enemies that have absolutely nothing but ONE element, always seem to be fire.

In that case I'll see about putting her on the team somewhere to give her a try.

Since the wiki article on her seems to be blank, any advice for skillpoint and levelling stat distributions? Also, does it make a difference if I input skillpoint levels before or after levelling a character?

[Garlyle]

In that case I'll see about putting her on the team somewhere to give her a try.

Since the wiki article on her seems to be blank, any advice for skillpoint and levelling stat distributions? Also, does it make a difference if I input skillpoint levels before or after levelling a character?

The second question gets asked a lot.  As always, no, it doesn't make a difference.  Because levelups and skillpoint bonuses are totally independant from one another as far as growth goes, it doesn't matter what order you do them in.

[trancehime]

Spoiler:

Eirin ended up being a staple in my boss busting team now, because it becomes more of a war of attrition than anything else. Here's a bunch of shit the boss throws at you:
1) Gravity-based attack dealing 50% cHP
2) Time Stop
3) A multi-target instant death attack
4) A single target Fire elemental attack that can ruin your shit if you have Fire-weak members
5) Several debuffs in his first form
6) Two healing moves, the latter which buffs him and heals him for 33% of his total HP.
7) A BoFV style Absolute Defense attack, which only Defense Ignoring attacks can break through
8) A buff that doubles his Agility
9) Aaaand much more.

I'm at 34/100 wins.
My roster is: Marisa, Flandre, Rinnosuke, Tenshi, Sanae, Eirin, Yuka, Mystia, Orin, Kaguya, Alice, Yuugi, average party level is Lv1850

[Anima Zero]

Well, didn't have to grind that much for 21F Sigil Guardian.  It's now dead with Reimu at lv225 going into the fight.  21F character in 4th slot putting out the majority of the offensive assault with backup from Remi, 18F character (Who used the super buff first turn), and anyone else I had a chance to fit in when possible.

Luck decided to pull random total BS on me.  Oh hai Silent Cloud hitting 3 characters with SIL (Who had resistance to said stat ranging from 24-30 to boot), Slash gibbing 8F healer girl in 4th slot, yeah.

Somehow, I pulled through.  Barely though.  One more turn and I would have been dead for sure.

Time to go pay that 25F Sigil Guardian a visit finally.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Oh boy, lots of progress on my part...

Spoiler:

I beat the 18F boss just barly, beat the Acacia Sigil Guardian on 19F even more barly, beat a few randoms on 20F, and fought the 6F Bloody Seal boss. I got the 6F Seal boss to switch to it's Breakaway form, but the move "Wave Blaaaaaaast!" got spamed to hell and back. Flight of Idaten spam, just without something called "delay" of any sort between each use. Was I even close to winning, at all?

[Anima Zero]

Oh boy, lots of progress on my part...

Spoiler:

I beat the 18F boss just barly, beat the Acacia Sigil Guardian on 19F even more barly, beat a few randoms on 20F, and fought the 6F Bloody Seal boss. I got the 6F Seal boss to switch to it's Breakaway form, but the move "Wave Blaaaaaaast!" got spamed to hell and back. Flight of Idaten spam, just without something called "delay" of any sort between each use. Was I even close to winning, at all?

Spoiler:

I believe you were very close, yeah.  Once that form comes out, it doesn't have much HP left.  Just blast it with your strongest attacks at that point.  Guess you got to see what it does if it manages to get an action.  I never did because it died for me before it could act.

As for me...25F Sigil Guardian is dead, Reimu being at lv226 for this fight. I'm not exactly sure how I managed to beat it on my 2nd try.

Came down to the wire, that's for sure.  Only had 4 characters left, 1 was paralyzed, Reimu had no SP left for healing, boss just buffed itself up, nobody was at full HP (Around 50%, if that).  Next turn it would get meant I was dead.

Figuring I was screwed anyways, I used Reimu's Fantasy Seal (Had enough SP for this though ), Magic Missile with Marisa and

Spoiler:

Eirin's Astronomical Entombing

.  That final attack did roughly 51k...which apparently was enough to defeat the Sigil Guardian.  Lucky is me.

Time to go explore.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Just took out the first of the 3 optionals on floor 14.

Spoiler:

Pretty easy battle against Yuyuko. Most of my team had 38-40 Death resistance, and Mokou had around 50. Nitori and Chen died to DTH, latter due to me forgetting just how fast Yuyuko was, and Yuugi died because I was an idiot and didn't swap her out when I should have, so Yuyuko's spells tore her apart even in the back row. Marisa let loose with two full power Master Sparks (concentrating 3 times, then having Ran use her team attack buff to get her to 100), and generally I had a good strategy down. I could have probably made it out without any casulties, only thing stopping that was my incompetence and bad luck with Nitori, who was the only one without over 100% death resistance (and I couldn't sacrifice any of her equips without resulting in a notable drop in attack power). Meiling and Eirin stuck in the first two rows and basically tanked the whole fight until one attack strangely managed to one-shot Meiling, at which point I brought out Tenshi. Until her death Meiling was healing statuses and using her minor heal to the best of its ability, focusing whenever she had nothing better to do. Eirin was the same since even Astronomical Entombing did a flat-out 0 damage (seriously, that thing seems pretty useless even against random enemies), so it was all Hourai Elixir, tanking, and focusing on her part as well.

Also question:

Spoiler:

Does Yuyuko have heavy MDef or Fire Res or something? Mokou's Fujiwara Volcano was like a second Royal Flare against the enemies on floors 15 and 16, easily decimating them all, yet Yuyuko took crap for damage from it AND Fire Bird -Flying Phoenix- (another move that usually tears apart anything else I hit with it). Wu didn't seem to do anything either, so I was eventually forced to just use her Curse and try to debuff Yuyuko best I could whenever she was out (which was when everyone else was restoring SP). Granted, she survived just fine thanks to total death immunity and reasonable defenses, but considering she was a superstar in mob clearing I was highly surprised she wasn't much help in the battle.

[Serela]

Also question:

Spoiler:

Does Yuyuko have heavy MDef or Fire Res or something? Mokou's Fujiwara Volcano was like a second Royal Flare against the enemies on floors 15 and 16, easily decimating them all, yet Yuyuko took crap for damage from it AND Fire Bird -Flying Phoenix-

Yes, her MND is huge; Marisa and Patchy only deal good damage because of MASTER SPARK RAPE and massive MAG stat, respectively.

And I have noticed that the first spell you mentioned really doesn't seem to do the damage it's formula would suggest. I don't know why, unless lots of stuff just has great SPI resistance and we haven't noticed.

[AlexX Unlimited]

Yes, her MND is huge; Marisa and Patchy only deal good damage because of MASTER SPARK RAPE and massive MAG stat, respectively.

I did notice my physical fighters were doing notably better damage than most of my magic-users. In that case I guess its a good thing my team is relatively evenly divided between magic casters and physical casters.

And I have noticed that the first spell you mentioned really doesn't seem to do the damage it's formula would suggest. I don't know why, unless lots of stuff just has great SPI resistance and we haven't noticed.

Spoiler:

Astronomical Entombing?

If so then yeah, the damage formula along with the user's stats dictate that it should be pretty powerful, yet for some strange reason it isn't even doing decent damage. The only reason I keep the character around is for her semi-tanky defenses (making her a good slot-2 character, something my team really really needed at the time she joined) and her percent healer, making her a decent support character.

[Pesco]

KO3S is good for that fight IIRC

[AlexX Unlimited]

KO3S is good for that fight IIRC

Against

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

?

Yeah, it really was. Did over 24k-25k in a single hit, and if I hadn't been incompetent and forgotten to swap her out before she took too much damage she probably could have done a lot more than she did before going down (which had to have been at least 100k's worth of damage).

EDIT: Forgot to mention my level was Reimu 71 (which she levelled from the fight). Chased down and got the character I've been waiting for since the start at Reimu 72. Not a hard battle, just have to be effecient at taking out her minions without wasting precious resources. Only casulties were my two healers. Got lucky and managed to poison her early on with Irremovable Shackles, too (and paralyze her, though that only worked once... still, poison probably helped).

Only thing? I'm not sure who to drop for her... D= I'm sure as heck not just leaving her, though. She'll get on my team no matter who I must kick.