Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F  (Read 118925 times)

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Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #750 on: March 27, 2011, 06:31:29 pm »
Does anyone know a formula or something to convert displayed character SPD into database SPD (ie. the actual amount of gauge filled for a character per tick)?

Too lazy to math it but:
100=100
Ughh I forget if it starts at 100 or 200... I might be off by 1 iteration
200=200
400=300
700=400
1100=500
1600=600
etc

The pattern is correct, I just don't remember if it splits immediately, or at 200.

Rukoto

  • "Ordinary" Magician
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #751 on: March 27, 2011, 09:23:07 pm »
Too lazy to math it but:
100=100
Ughh I forget if it starts at 100 or 200... I might be off by 1 iteration
200=200
400=300
700=400
1100=500
1600=600
etc

The pattern is correct, I just don't remember if it splits immediately, or at 200.


I'm pretty sure you're right. I've been going off of the same "formula" too, and the speeds I get seem to be very accurate if not the same. (e.g. Evil Jewel's 412 speed is 748 character speed and Strategist's 400 speed is 700 speed).

And I just beat Eiki (no drop, as usual). Eiki decided to focus when Marisa only had 160SP left,  and most of my nukers were already dead. I thought I had lost, but Ran pulled through with Ozuno. By the way, when should I pay Maribel V2 a visit? Sitting at Reimu 249 now.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #752 on: March 27, 2011, 09:35:17 pm »
Right, second question then: Between character speed values that doesn't break a "databse speed point", say, 700 and 703 (which corresponds to a "database speed" of 400, if I'm reading this correctly), does the game consider them to be the same speed or is there still a difference in terms of turn order? (ie. What I want to know is if a character with 703 speed will always act before a character with 700 speed no matter what order they are in the party)

Rukoto

  • "Ordinary" Magician
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #753 on: March 27, 2011, 11:26:09 pm »
I beleive the character with the highest ATB (over 10000) gauge gets to go first, so it can vary. Yukari's Spiriting away always makes Kaguya go first though, while your other party members get their turns starting with the leftmost one. Also, I've noticed that one of your chracters can go before an enemy buffed by Prayer of Supremacy if that character's ATB gauge also happens to be full because the character's ATB gauge is still higher than that of the buffed enemies' (since Prayer of Supremacy just sets the targets' gauges to 10000). I can't think of anything else to mention on that matter.

Also, I'm at Yuuka now. Does her Gensokyo's Reflowering spell recover ALL of her HP? It sure seems like it does because my team ran out of energy before I could get her into focus range. Maybe I'm doing something wrong again :V

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #754 on: March 28, 2011, 12:08:52 am »
yeah, people with a higher atb gauge go first, even if they appear full at the same time. As mentioned, some moves push it past full. Kedammagatron (or however the hell you spell it)'s lighting attacks for example, seem to be much more than full.

Zengar Zombolt

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #755 on: March 28, 2011, 12:27:29 am »
It has to be more than full, bitch goes like 4 times in a row.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #756 on: March 28, 2011, 01:16:21 am »
yeah, people with a higher atb gauge go first, even if they appear full at the same time. As mentioned, some moves push it past full. Kedammagatron (or however the hell you spell it)'s lighting attacks for example, seem to be much more than full.

According to the database, the no-delay Heaven's Lightning has a post-use gauge of 102%.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #757 on: March 28, 2011, 01:18:34 am »
Yeah.. I think it's a special case that was forgotten to be mentioned in the database though. I mean back on floor 20 when I was only around level 110, I'd be able to move in between lightning attacks from those lightning dorf enemies. But that 27f boss, even when Aya is out with her 2000ish speed, no dice, she'll sit there with a full bar unable to move in between them regularly.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #758 on: March 28, 2011, 01:41:49 am »
Yeah.. I think it's a special case that was forgotten to be mentioned in the database though. I mean back on floor 20 when I was only around level 110, I'd be able to move in between lightning attacks from those lightning dorf enemies. But that 27f boss, even when Aya is out with her 2000ish speed, no dice, she'll sit there with a full bar unable to move in between them regularly.

It has less to do with how high your character's speed is and more about if your character's speed and post-use delay is aligned enough that when they get a full bar, they get more than 10200, which would then allow them to act if they went full precisely at the same time as the opponent that cast Heaven's Lightning.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #759 on: March 29, 2011, 03:54:47 pm »
Does anyone know if there's a way to turn off music while leaving the sound effects alone?

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #760 on: March 29, 2011, 04:42:28 pm »
Stick the music.dat somewhere else. If the file's not there it won't play the music.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #761 on: March 29, 2011, 04:49:29 pm »
Once I tried naming music 1 2 and vice versa in hopes of making the other music file the default, that effectively turns it off too.. booo.

Earthsiege

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #762 on: March 29, 2011, 05:56:39 pm »
So I picked this back up after getting bored with Winner grinding, and I'm trying a team of less-used/"niche" characters, just to see how it turns out. I'll only use the same twelve the entire game, from 1 to 30. Team I think I'm running with:

Komachi (tank/physical)
Rinnosuke (tank/physical)
Tenshi (tank)
Reimu (general-purpose/obligatory)
Youmu (physical)
Kanako (mage/tank)
Renko (support)
Sanae (support)
Suika (physical)
Utsuho (mage)
Rumia (mage)
Maribel (mage)


Any glaring problems, criticisms, goodluck's, etc.?
http://pastebin.com/DzbzqF0k - LoT2 reference list. If anyone catches anything, drop me a line.

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #763 on: March 29, 2011, 06:39:49 pm »
So I picked this back up after getting bored with Winner grinding, and I'm trying a team of less-used/"niche" characters, just to see how it turns out. I'll only use the same twelve the entire game, from 1 to 30. Team I think I'm running with:

Komachi (tank/physical)
Rinnosuke (tank/physical)
Tenshi (tank)
Reimu (general-purpose/obligatory)
Youmu (physical)
Kanako (mage/tank)
Renko (support)
Sanae (support)
Suika (physical)
Utsuho (mage)
Rumia (mage)
Maribel (mage)


Any glaring problems, criticisms, goodluck's, etc.?

I'd drop one of the last 3 in favor of Marisa, or in the case of 2.06 or beyond, Nitori. 
You need one super-powered nuke in order to safely drop certain bosses.   I'd also switch Tenshi for another attacker, since Komachi/Kourin should handle practically everything.

Stryfender

  • Nickname: Narrowd
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #764 on: March 29, 2011, 09:20:34 pm »
......I am one unlucky bastard. After finally able to take on most of the denizens of the 30F I am in despair. They are stingy sons of...

0/27 Awakened Exoskeleton
0/31 Gantz Suit
0/19 Immortal School Badge
0/33 Egg
0/17 Necronomicon
0/5 Psycho Gun
0/11 Rhododendron Dress
And finally a staggering 0/56 for Ultimate ZUN Hat. That cheat thingy is looking mighty tempting at the moment.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #765 on: March 30, 2011, 12:02:32 am »
......I am one unlucky bastard. After finally able to take on most of the denizens of the 30F I am in despair. They are stingy sons of...

0/27 Awakened Exoskeleton
0/31 Gantz Suit
0/19 Immortal School Badge
0/33 Egg
0/17 Necronomicon
0/5 Psycho Gun
0/11 Rhododendron Dress
And finally a staggering 0/56 for Ultimate ZUN Hat. That cheat thingy is looking mighty tempting at the moment.

Don't worry. I'm as unlucky as you are.

You know all those 25% drops in non-plus disk bosses? I have gotten 3 of them only. Out of 22.

Speaking of 30F drops, which ones are the really good ones anyways? The ones that caught my eyes are  Necronomicon(Alice), Arturos Gem(Suwako), Egg(Eientei), Ultimate ZUN hat(Yuyuko, but maybe it's better to farm them in 26F?), Extinction Cannon(Mokou), Immortal School Badge (Yukari), Awakened Exoskeleton(Rinnosuke), Rhododendron Dress (Yuuka - is she hard anyways? I see that she only has 450 SPD). Maybe the 256 Affinity ones as well?
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #766 on: March 30, 2011, 01:03:51 am »
Just beat Eiki and Maribel V2.  Unfortunately, Yuka is tearing me up.  Stupid recover 1.5 million spell T.T

For the person who asked what level to take on Maribel V2, Reimu was level 237 and I do not use her (think thats only 80% exp?).  I had no issues fighting her and did not lose a single character. 

I'm thinking of dropping Patch and replacing her with Renko for some decent buffing and debuffing.  Only problem is I do not know where to put my level up stats.  Should I just put it all in SPD or is there someplace better for her?  Can't exactly increase her MAG since I intend to use Charge. 

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #767 on: March 30, 2011, 01:22:11 am »
You said you aren't using Reimu, so charge might be worthwhile for you. But if you ever find yourself keeping defense buffs up high to your party somehow anyway, it's really pretty crummy. the ap guage cut in half doesn't justify buffing 2 people with atk/mag, since renko herself doesn't benefit from it, and your tank likely wont very much either. But yeah, if you aren't using Reimu, the def buffs it provides probably outweigh the ap guage thing too.

Anyway, mind is probably your best bet. Speed might be an alternative but Ithe ap guage after her spells get hit so hard that you probably just switch her out between uses anyway.
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #768 on: March 30, 2011, 03:28:10 am »
Well I have Yukari to do the defense buffing.  I dont have aoe heals which hurts me but Meiling and Tenshi tend to take hits just fine and Minoriko is great for healing as is.  For awhile I did not use any buffs at all which made Rennosuke a huge pain to survive some of his attacks.  Besides Reisen's and Chen's self buffs, I never bothered with buffing attack and magic before. 

Simply for the debuffs, I think I'll try out Renko.  Havent even finished catching her up on skill levels yet and she is already doing better than some of my mind tanks.  But having a good paralyze, Suwako is kinda not needed for that role anymore and not many bosses are weak against nature (especially not Yuka).  So I might drop Suwako and pick up Ran or Keine to get some attack buffs.  I don't really know much about Ran and Keine I only recently unlocked (though I saw her in action on the Team Unappreciated Let's Play). 

That or I will need grind more to get enough firepower to deal with Yuka's 1.5 million heals. 

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #769 on: March 30, 2011, 04:24:33 am »
Keine's definitely worth it for efficient offensive buffs.  You need all the firepower you can grab for Yuka due to those heals. 

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #770 on: March 30, 2011, 04:37:15 am »
I never found Keine to be that useful for buffing in boss fights (well, if you're not using Reimu or Yukari, she might be better for DEF buffs), because normally I only have one attacker out. Iku and Ran are the only ones I'd use for offensive buffing in boss battles.

I do use her to buff in randoms though. Her base speed isn't bad, and if I build her speed up and give her some speed gears she can outpace the majority of my sweepers, giving them a buff before they rip away.

J.O.B

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #771 on: March 30, 2011, 05:20:42 am »
Which skills are best to level up for who?
I know Patchy is good with MAG.
Meiling is good with HP and DEF(and MND).
Should I level up Che'n's speed? Or should I level up her ATK?

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #772 on: March 30, 2011, 05:42:56 am »
There's always Iku's buff for offensive.

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #773 on: March 30, 2011, 09:09:59 am »
Which skills are best to level up for who?
I know Patchy is good with MAG.
Meiling is good with HP and DEF(and MND).
Should I level up Che'n's speed? Or should I level up her ATK?
Character - Personal Preference - General Consensus
* indicates I switched builds halfway through the game
Reimu - Magic/Mind/HP hybrid - Defensive build
Marisa - Pure Magic - Pure Magic
Remilia - Hybrid Attack - Pure Attack or Pure Defensive
Patchouli - Magic/Mind Hybrid (offensive slant) - Pure Magic or Pure Mind or Hybrid
Sakuya - Mixed*(Attack -> Defensive -> Attack, nearly unusable) - Pure Defensive or Pure Attack (are actually good)

Chen - Attack - Attack
Meiling - HP/Defense heavy hybrid with Mind- Pure Defense, Heavy Defense/HP hybrid
Cirno - Attack - Attack
Minoriko - Magic/Mind Hybrid* (Magic -> Mind) (heavy defensive slant) - pure Mind or very heavy Mind/Magic
Youmu - Attack/Defense hybrid - Pure Attack
Rumia - Magic/Mind hybrid (offensive slant) - Pure Magic
Alice - Magic/Mind hybrid (offensive slant) - Pure Magic
Yuugi - Attack/Defense hybrid (offensive slant) - Pure Attack or Pure Defense (does anyone use her that way, anyways)
Wriggle - Mixed* (Attack -> HP heavy defensive) - Pure Defensive (Balanced or else whatever tank your team needs)
Aya - Attack - Attack

Iku - Magic/Mind hybrid (Magic -> Mind) (heavy defensive slant) - Pure Mind
Komachi - Attack/HP hybrid - depends on what you need, but Attack and HP are the only stats she'll need
Sanae - Magic/Defense/HP/Mind - Defenses/HP/Speed or Pure Magic
Suwako - Attack - Attack
Nitori - Attack - Attack  (gamebreakingly good 2.06+, mediocre 2.04-)
Ran - HP/Mind/Defense hybrid - Either Pure Magic or Defensive

Reisen - Magic - Magic
Eirin - High HP Defensive - High Mind/Defense defensive
Tenshi - Mind/Defense heavy hybrid with HP - Mind/Defense split, enough HP to survive Rasetsu Fists (this can come from gear or SP though)
Mokou - Defensive attacker (heavy magic with HP/Mind/Defense all balanced) - Pure Magic or Defensive Attacker
Flan - Attack - Attack
Orin - Attack/Mind hybrid - Pure Attack
Suika - Attack/Mind hybrid - Pure Attack
Yuyuko - Magic Defensive Mage* (Magic -> Mind -> Magic) (unusable outside of DTH) - Pure Magic (is actually good)

Kaguya - Magic/Mind Hybrid - Pure Magic
Yukari - HP/Defense/Mind - Defensive (whatever your team needs)
Kourin - Balanced - Whatever your team needs (Pure Attack, Pure Defensive, tank with hitting power, attacker with staying power, etc.)

Maribel - Magic - Magic
Renko - Mind heavy tank - Pure Speed or Magic Tank
Okuu - Magic - Magic
Kanako - Bulky Mage (see Mokou, except with good magic) - Pure Magic or Bulky Mage
Yuka - Magic - Pure Magic or Bulky Mage
Mystia - Attack - Attack
Keine - Balanced - Probably Defensive
Shiki - Attack - Attack

notes:
Reimu does well with any stat, considering I have thrown 40 levels into SP and she still has excellent stats.  Don't do it though.  Sakuya's pretty useless as a tank if you do a lot of switching, but is a great stay-in attacker if you build her for it.  If you don't switch, Sakuya's a godsend.  Aya and Mystia are pretty freaking bulky.   Minoriko is probably the third/fourth best character at shrugging off magic attacks after pure Mind Patchy and pure Mind Iku, and possibly pure Mind or heavy Mind Yukari. 

Yuka is NOT outclassed by Marisa, with a multi-target Master Spark and the ability to do minimal support while attacking.  Maribel and Reisen's otherwise mediocre stats are made awesome by their buffs (same principle applies to lategame Remilia).  Nitori is gamebreakingly good in version 2.06 or the Special Disk, and fairly mediocre otherwise. 

Eirin is probably best off never touching HP with her level up points, considering she can overheal.  Trying to use Sanae exactly as you would Minoriko leads to her getting heavily outclassed; play to her strongpoints - either build up her defenses and speed to throw Miracle Fruit out fast and heal status, or bump Magic to have a strong heal, but makes her fragile.

Rumia, Mokou, Yuyuko and Alice all have the potential to hit like a truck despite otherwise mediocre magic stats.  Alice and Rumia level up fast.  Alice's Return Inanimateness has a comparable formula to KOi3S, only losing out because Yuugi has massive attack power, while Alice's magic is merely solid.  Mokou needs to hit weakness in order to really do well in terms of damage, but Fujiyama Volcano does well enough even without it.  Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvanah is ridiculously strong due to its formula.  Rumia's Moonlight Ray is awesome. 

Kaguya is one out of two characters who can use a viable defensive stat ignoring move, and the only one during the main game.  Shiki is gotten late in the Post Disk.

Keine and Rinnosuke have solid enough stats that if you equip the right gear, you can spread your points everywhere and still have them do well.  Specializing them is probably better, though.

With the possible exception of Flan, who should be built pure Attack anyways, but can actually pull of a hybrid due to her ridiculous Attack power,  always focus on a composite attacker's higher attacking stat. 

Yuugi and Suika are almost interchangable.  Suika is slightly weaker with better overall defenses, better defensive support options, and a Wind nuke while Yuugi is noticeably more physically bulky, a bit stronger, doesn't have a buff, but has a better overall offensive attacking set, and better offensive support.  Either way though, most likely thing is you're going to buff and nuke. 
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #774 on: March 31, 2011, 01:57:42 am »
Well from my lurking here in the past and watching lets plays, I've heard and seen just about everything about every character cept for like Shiki and Okuu.  Shiki I find the usual, pierces all defense type attacks that are greats.  But I hear nothing about Okuu (assuming thats the one with the nuclear reactor in her).  What are the general thoughts about her in her role in the game? 

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #775 on: March 31, 2011, 02:29:15 am »
Well from my lurking here in the past and watching lets plays, I've heard and seen just about everything about every character cept for like Shiki and Okuu.  Shiki I find the usual, pierces all defense type attacks that are greats.  But I hear nothing about Okuu (assuming thats the one with the nuclear reactor in her).  What are the general thoughts about her in her role in the game?

I have Okuu in my party of 16 right now, and I have to say that she's pretty underwhelming if you have someone to do the buffing. For one thing, Uncontained Nuclear Reaction is pretty weak as far as a self-buff is concerned, and the damage it does is pretty much crap given its extremely weak formula, so unless Sanae's your only buffer or something it's better just to buff her with someone else. As far as her actual damaging spells go, they also have lousy formulas. Even with her greater MAG, Hell's Towamak or whatever it's spelled is maybe about as powerful as Fujiyama Volcano assuming even buffs (I'm running Iku), and Giga Flare maybe as powerful as Swallow's Courie Shell (though with a different element). And the latter cost a crapload of SP (10 more SP than Hourai Barrage while doing half the damage?)  She does have some durability (like Eiki, I sometimes leave her out to take a hit if I know the boss isn't using a doomsday spell), but that's only because I'm using Thundercloud Sickleback rather than Uncontained Reaction (and its unresistable DEF/MND debuff). Speaking of Sickleback, Okuu's status resist is like really bad (tied for worst with Chen, I think), which is annoying because she's the only one in my team that I have to delegate TWO equipments to her PAR resist, and MAG attackers don't get equipments with both good MAG/SPD boost AND PAR resist. She isn't too bad on clearing trash, but she's usually the first one I throw back to the SDM to make room for a supporter when I prepare for a boss battle.

Rukoto

  • "Ordinary" Magician
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #776 on: March 31, 2011, 02:56:26 am »
Not getting any ZUN Hats from Kedamagrammaton and I've killed that thing about 7 times already (out of several more tries). It's like the Rinnouske boss to my team: Heaven's Lighting x3, Djinn Storm, repeat for three turns, then Rankain about three times in a row *twitch*

Yet it only took 2 tries for Yuuka's Rhododendron Dress...

EDIT: Took ~13 tries. At least each battle doesn't take too long (normally).
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 03:33:36 am by Rukoto »
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #777 on: March 31, 2011, 04:15:22 am »
Just beat Yuka.  Was a bit over leveled though (Floor 27 is such good exp and skillpoints).  Didnt get the drop but dont really care.  Now just have to take care of Okuu and be done with unlocking characters. 

Maybe I'll do the V2 boss rush next.

(Edit: lol 3 uncontained nuclears in a row!)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 04:50:17 am by Kanoe »

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #778 on: March 31, 2011, 05:22:41 am »
Do V2 boss rush now... It's way super easy compared to Yuuka.
Basically V2 boss rush is doable (and easy) before Reimu 200.
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #779 on: March 31, 2011, 05:49:25 am »
Yeah just finished it.  I thought Maribel V2 would be included which was why I waited so long.  Boy did I feel dumb trying to recover my SP during my fight against Rennosuke. 

I don't know if I have bad luck or what but Okuu spams her tops spells all the time.  I can blitz over half her hp away after fully buffing everyone and using some spirit away action.  I would try to be a bit more cautious but she seems to like blasting me with nuclear reactor and giga flare just wipes me out. 
 

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