Topic: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]  (Read 11818 times)

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martelefort

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2017, 03:00:29 am »
Maybe i'll repeat what others already said but hey i'll give it a try.

First i think Kosuzu will be the boss in AoCF. But she doesn't even need a special ability to do it . In my opinion, she isn't posessed in FS, just got a lil' drunk of her newfound power. Im pretty sure she just ( maybe with a little help of Yukari on how to do it ) unsealed the youkai out of the scroll, that youkai is the one doing the possesion thingy. The " an ennemy too strong to defeat alone " is, i'm pretty sure, just yourself getting posessed and your partner has to defeat you. I think it might fit Kosuzu, as she thinks  equally about youkais on humans (as seen on the fox chapter), so by making a youkai possessing a human and vice-versa, it could give the all " now i know what it feels like " stuff. I think she basically wants what a lot others want as well : a peaceful life with humans and youkais as equal.

As for why Yukari made a move, i agree with nyttyn that she's bothered about the human village's information that youkais try to get hold off by targetting Kosuzu. Akyuu is pretty much untouchable, so Kosuzu is the logical place to control informations. Yukari has already been seen to be " against " youkais, by training Reimu or telling her to exterminate well, so i guess she thinks that another youkai controlling the information wouldn't suit her plans.

The parallel with the fortune teller is obvious, but i think it was more of a foreshadowing as well as a a way to build-up tension. It showed that Reimu is actually the " peacekeeper " of Gensokyo's equilibrium and that she doens't mind killing stuff. Keep in mind that when Yukari say that she wants to save Kosuzu from Reimu, Kosuzu doesn't even know that Reimu killed the fortune teller ( and in a very cold way ), so it was more to say to the reader " yep, Kosuzu might get herself in trouble ".

There is also the parallel with WaHH, as both Kosuzu and Kasen made it clear that they wanted to overthrow things, but as for now it is quite unclear, so i can't say much, though i theorize Kasen's strategy is more grandiose that Kosuzu.

As for how Reimu will respond and the following events of FS, it won't be solved fast i think. Sure, it's part of a two-chapters story, but the title is " Reimu's miscalculation " so the next chapter will just continue on Reimu realizing the trouble, she won't solve it right now. I'm sure she will resolve the accident and things will remain just as they were before, just like any other incidents in the past. I agree that it would be quite disapointing, but it seems that's how things goes in Gensokyo. Maybe it'll have an impact on how Reimu regards the youkai-human relation, but i doubt it.

That was a lot of text. And of course, what i just said was pure theory and only ZUN holds the response there.

Zelinko

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2017, 12:09:53 am »
I actually disagree with the idea right off the bat for one reason.

Say you're a reader of FS and see this big plot buildup in story for it only to solved off screen.

If the last issue was more stand alone and set up as Forbidden Scrollery Volume 7 Extra: Antinomy of Common Flowers it'd work better.

SaBND's Great Fairy War extra was a standalone story that was a backstory to 12.8.  FS50 was the buildup of a long chain of events and will get it's payoff in book.

For what Kosuzu's doing and the outcome I can't seperate her actions enough from the all but inevitable Revenge of the Sith parodies to fully get going without her and Reimu doing a HIGH GROUND parody.
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Lt Colonel Summers

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2017, 04:33:11 am »
Chapter 51 has just been released.

All I have to say is...

GODSDAMN YOU, YUKARI! YOU *insert every single profanity ever existed in English here* GAP HAG! I'M GONNA STRANGLE YOU UNTIL YOU'RE IN HIGAN, AND THEN I'LL STRANGLE YOU EVEN MORE!!!
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Fulisha of Light

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2017, 04:47:16 am »
Chapter 51 has just been released.

All I have to say is...

GODSDAMN YOU, YUKARI! YOU *insert every single profanity ever existed in English here* GAP HAG! I'M GONNA STRANGLE YOU UNTIL YOU'RE IN HIGAN, AND THEN I'LL STRANGLE YOU EVEN MORE!!!

What happened?  :wat:

Jeremie

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2017, 05:46:57 am »
Personally I'm pretty underwhelmed. Without wanting to sound mean, I feel the story went from pretty intriguing to immediately taking the most predictable route of all. I hope the follow-up will subvert that and end up being far more interesting.

On the other hand, I think it's nice that Sayo and Manuke are teaming up again.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 05:49:27 am by Jeremie »
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Lt Colonel Summers

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2017, 06:09:22 am »
What happened?  :wat:

Let's just say that Yukari is successful in convincing Kosuzu that Reimu and Marisa are the villains...
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Sophilia

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2017, 06:25:16 am »
That's the events of 50, dude.  51 is two battles to save Kosuzu's soul.
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TresserT

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2017, 06:45:19 am »
Yeah, I feel like this chapter didn't give us that much. It just confirmed what we could have inferred. Some interesting things that we got though; Reimu would kill Kosuzu if she had to, and Yukari was planning on Reimu killing (or at least attacking) Kosuzu. Hmmmmmmmm.

Also, since we have 2 chapters left before comiket, I can totally see this leading into AoCF even if it doesn't use the game directly for the story's resolution. Though if AoCF gets delayed due to it not being completed that might be awkward.
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the old guy

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2017, 08:09:32 am »
That chapter was weak. Next one better make up for it.
GODSDAMN YOU, YUKARI! YOU *insert every single profanity ever existed in English here* GAP HAG! I'M GONNA STRANGLE YOU UNTIL YOU'RE IN HIGAN, AND THEN I'LL STRANGLE YOU EVEN MORE!!!
Why? Sure, she might be doing something bad, but we don't know what her ultimate goal is yet. She may not want Kosuzu to die.
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PK

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2017, 08:40:05 am »
I don't think Yukari wants Kosuzu to die. I think her subject matter here is to see if Reimu would "protect Gensokyo's balance" regardless of who is the one involved.

Fortune teller she doesn't know that only wants to join the "winning side" without hurting anyone? Split him in two with no remorse or a second of hesitation.

Girl she knows that messes with dangerous youkai stuff all the time despite various warnings and purposedly releases a demon that both Mamizou and Marisa consider incredibly powerful? Obviously has to be someone else's fault and the girl must not be hurt.

Yukari didn't expect it, she probably considered Reimu the perfect guardian that would act the same against everyone.

My hope is that it doesn't just end like the WaHH chapter where Yukari gets "beaten" and simply puts up a show of fake apologize.

Jeremie

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2017, 09:02:33 am »
Fortune teller she doesn't know that only wants to join the "winning side" without hurting anyone? Split him in two with no remorse or a second of hesitation.

Girl she knows that messes with dangerous youkai stuff all the time despite various warnings and purposedly releases a demon that both Mamizou and Marisa consider incredibly powerful? Obviously has to be someone else's fault and the girl must not be hurt.

I think it's not that simple when it comes to the fortune teller. He flat out killed himself, manipulated people to get what he wants, complained about the relationship of humans and youkai and then claims he just want to go live his life quietly. With all of that done, it's kind of hard to believe him and with an attitude like he had, there was nothing to really prevent him to go around and share his experience with other humans. His actions turned him into a genuine threat to the balance of Gensokyo and thus he had to be dealt with. That and I assume the whole killing himself made it impossible to revert what he had done. The other man Reimu killed also appeared to be completely lost as well and thus was dealt with.

Kosuzu's situation so far seems to be much different and it might be possible to save her so it would make sense that'd they try to do that.
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Zelinko

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2017, 10:50:08 am »
So read 51 and well Page 10: Why translate that to rumbling when that was... MENACING

Later on it was left fine as it was.  Also TANUKI RUSH KEKEKEKEKEKE!

But yea on the merchant the guy was just a meat puppet at that point.  Remove the infestation and there's nothing left.

Still TANUKI RUSH!!! Wonder if they'll be shape shifting during the fight.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 10:52:20 am by Zelinko »
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andykhang

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2017, 11:19:06 am »
More than it's predictable, I think what you guy would like to see is a bit too outlandish. It's as if you want to have the worst route possible for this thing to change genre.

martelefort

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2017, 12:57:30 pm »
I just read it, and it wasn't that bad of a chapter was it ?

It's a trailer for two epic battles so the next one may be super good. maybe.

but yeah, the route here is the most simple
More than it's predictable, I think what you guy would like to see is a bit too outlandish. It's as if you want to have the worst route possible for this thing to change genre.

Even without wanting a bad outcome, I would like to see something a bit more complicated than just " I'm Yukari, i did it cause i felt like it, now let me fake being sorry and i'll go to sleep ".
Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2017, 01:43:09 pm »
Please, people. This manga series isn't the kind to feature huge battles. Next chapter will probably be the epilogue, with the scroll destroyed but Kosuzu going on with her business. I mean, did you seriously hope for something big and game-changing? In an official Touhou manga? HAH!

martelefort

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2017, 01:44:28 pm »
Cmon , let me have a bit of hope there. And i don't expect it to be  " game-changing " but i hope it have some repercusions on the universe.

MANoBadAssGar Jr.

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2017, 01:53:03 pm »
Boyyy, i think this is the first time that an "incident" in FS aren't concluded in 2 chapter. Feel like final arc, is this going to be last Volume?

I feel like Kosuzu gonna end up with some youkai attribute or something else beside her omni-reading abilities (had no better idea to word it lol), and spared from Hakurei due to Yukari meddling.
I really doubt Yukari gonna win the duel.

On the other hand, I think it's nice that Sayo and Manuke are teaming up again.
Who?

Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2017, 02:45:02 pm »
My hope is that it doesn't just end like the WaHH chapter where Yukari gets "beaten" and simply puts up a show of fake apologize.
I very much doubt it. That "beat up" in WaHH, it's because she took the blame for Kasen in order to hide their meeting. She wasn't being serious about that "off-screen" battle.
However, in this case, she's being very serious and has a very serious objective in mind. The resulting battles will exciting to be the least. Also, it will be the first real action scenes since ever? There was SSiB but heh, it was one-sided from the beginning.

(Now onto my projections)

Regardless, Reimu not deciding to attack Kosuzu and went to Yukari "surprised" her of which most likely reconsidered immediately what to do and what the outcome most be. And this is why she's serious about this. However, even if her thinking prowess is far far far superior to Reimu and could think of thousand of scenarios in a minute, Reimu has the advantage of, well, having beaten her up 2-3 times already? On the Mamizou's side of the battle, she's here with the Scroll youkai that absorbed a ton of tsukumogami and her with hundred tanukis. To be honnest, I don't see this ending well for her. I don't even count the tanukis in the battle yet. Not yet, because, I'm unsure of what they could do. They will probably transform into weapons or something.

As for Kosuzu, it looks grim for her. Simply because Reimu decided to aim for Yukari first. It won't end on status-quo and that's for sure.

And I smell the end of the manga very very soon too and I also believe that this will lead into AoCF.

andykhang

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2017, 04:23:56 pm »
Though ,probably, Yukari already calculated this result and know this in advance already, and her being "surprise" is an insult to Reimu's "triggerhappy" tendency. And remember, all of this "defeating" is not only in term of SC, but even in that she's just playing around. And I think you're underestimating the ye olde Tanuki abit there, she isn't the Tanuki boss for nothing.

Agree that this series would probably end though, not sure the status-quo would change much though.

Lebon14

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2017, 05:01:41 pm »
Sure, she's the boss of the tanuki but, remember, she was afraid of the scroll just moments before receiving a confidence boost.

Suspicious person

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2017, 05:11:04 pm »
It’s kinda interesting that Yukari, who initially claimed to want to protect Kosuzu from Reimu, would somehow get Kosuzu to be in a position that is very much like a target for Reimu. Anyway, while Yukari might seem like a shifty duplicitous trickster, whenever she gets involved, she usually has some kind of goal that serves Gensokyo’s well being on the long run, while not necessarily as beneficial for the involved parties. As far as this current arc goes, I’m of the opinion that Yukari is targeting Kosuzu’s night parade scroll. What kind of plan exactly and what she might want to do with it, I dunno, but it’s possible she want to have some control over it or straight up take it out of the circulation :

One of the recurring theme of FS is youkai politics, but when it comes to youkai relations and their standing in general, power is key : the strong rules, the weak are just there. Youkai politics is, from what I can tell with FS and DDC, essentially 2 things : Youkai-on-Human politics, AND Youkai-on-Youkai politics.

The Youkai-on-Human politics is especially simple : Humans MUST be at the bottom of the barrel and stay there : Human fear is needed, and Youkai must be strong enough to command fear.
And for the relationship between the Youkai or their own politics, simply put,  the strong rules (which is pretty much a key point in DDC) : for example Yukari is the strongest youkai in Gensokyo, so she call the shots, do whatever she wants and get away with it.
But the thing about strong youkai in Gensokyo is that it’s not like they pop out of the blue : most of them have been there for quite a while, and as people who are fairly aware of how things roll in Gensokyo, they don’t cause trouble (or they do but within the rules), and as for the minor / weaker youkais, they cannot do anything that go against the rules, no matter how much they want to, else they’d get put in their place (pretty much ISC ?)
Basically, Gensokyo have rules : the strong respect them so everyone else better follow suit.

So… what’s kind of problem could have been introduced by FS ? The night parade scroll.
On one side,It can empower youkai and even give birth to tsukkumogami, so it’s already not too power balance friendly, as far as youkai-on-youkai politic goes : it could help whatever youkai hold it rise up in the power hierarchy : it could be problematic if it ended in the wrong hands.
And on another side, it contains an especially powerful youkai : if the strong rules the weak and guarantee order by pretty much being some kind of dissuasive force for whoever want to break the rules, a STRONG NEWCOMER who is NOT necessarily familiar with the rules of Gensokyo and might not be kept in check is obviously going to threaten the order in Gensokyo.

One key point is that the Human Village needs to be preserved so pretty much everyone (youkai) who know what’s good for them will make sure to do so : interference (the bad one obviously) with the Human Village, for youkai, is obviously a taboo. Yet the very nature of youkai is such that they must be at odds with humans : they are enemies.  Gensokyos’ youkai know the relevance of the human village so they won’t do anything too rash towards it… but what of the youkais who are not familiar with that ? They are going to be, like, some sort of danger.

Considering all of that, It should be pretty obvious that the night parade scroll is an artifact that can put the power balance in peril.

My guess is that whatever plot Yukari is cooking revolves around the night parade scroll and that such plot requires Kosuzu to a certain extent (else she wouldn't involve her). Where exactly does Kosuzu comes into play in that, I dunno. At any rate, I can't clearly see how Yukari is protecting Kosuzu with all of this. Maybe she's just a stepping stone towards her objective ? We'll see what this is all about in the next chapter(s ?), I guess. Besides, there's still a question that begs to be asked regarding what exactly happened between Kosuzu leaving with her Youma books and her coming back at the Shrine.

At any rate, this chapter kinda answer the "what's gonna happen to Kosuzu if (...)" question from a while back, so there's that. Kosuzu has some crazy luck.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 05:14:08 pm by Suspicious person »

Shadowlupus

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2017, 05:38:23 pm »
Thai folks over here speculate that this chapter might be connected to 15.5 because the phrase "completely possessed" in the chapter is written as 完全取り憑かれて or 完全取憑.

However, it is written 完全憑依 in 15.5, a minor difference. So, ZUN continuing this plot into AoCF is still a possibility!


EDIT: Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery volume 1 has been licensed by Yen Press and is now available for pre-order on Amazon. However, there is no an official announcement yet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/6doa61/yen_press_has_licensed_touhou_suzunaan_forbidden/
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 05:47:30 pm by Kageshirou »

TrueShadow

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2017, 08:46:59 am »
So, no comment that the scroll contains an oni? Possible fourth deva?

andykhang

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2017, 11:11:20 am »
...I don't think so, really. The power of collecting, and the fog...sound too much like a certain drunk loli, in her heyday as the force of evil

martelefort

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2017, 01:23:52 pm »
That's an interesting point, i doubt it tho, but if it's true it's going to be intresting, and will link it to WaHH most likely.

Also i just noticed Reimu opens a gap and jump into it to teleport herself, it's the first time i see it in action, just like Yukari's power actually.

PK

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2017, 03:56:51 pm »
I can see how the scroll could be related to Suika. Remember that some of her titles are also about being the "night parade of one hundted demons"? And that thing is a oni with some kind of gathering ability, other traits Suika shares.  Weird.


Also i just noticed Reimu opens a gap and jump into it to teleport herself, it's the first time i see it in action, just like Yukari's power actually.
I wonder if it's because of her urban legend, the Gap Woman? She should be able to actually teleport without gaps, right?

TresserT

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2017, 05:53:28 pm »
Reimu's barrier abilities are extremely similar to Yukari's boundary abilities. Ever since.... I want to say IN, Reimu's been training with Yukari off and on to refine those abilities. She was definitely training with Yukari by SSiB at the latest. Reimu's been becoming more and more Yukari-like for a while now, in terms of what she can do.

Just as an example, Yukari could jump from one side of the screen to the other in SWR/Hisou. In HM, Reimu gained this ability too. Just as one example of many that I would have to look up to talk about.

It's probably more than just the urban legend, is what I'm saying. Thought it is cool to see just how far they've come.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 12:54:45 am by TresserT »
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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2017, 11:38:26 pm »
Yeah Reimu's barrier warping abilities have been long established really. It isn't something strange, I'm actually quite happy ZUN chose to show it now rather than have her just fly up there. Especially when it was used to go confront Yukari herself.

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Sophilia

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2017, 01:43:48 am »
It also reinforces what was said by Mamizou and Reimu earlier, that Yukari and Kosuzu were hiding in the Outside.  So Reimu and Yukari are on the Outside shrine's roof, while the other two are on the shrine grounds in Gensokyo.

This reminds me, what was the exact wording of the location of Yukari's home again?
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Alrysc

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Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2017, 02:45:17 am »
This reminds me, what was the exact wording of the location of Yukari's home again?
"Along the northeastern edge", I believe is what she said. The same place where she pointed out the holes in the barrier to Reimu before the fight in PCB, I'm pretty sure.
 

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