Topic: Touhou 15 「東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom」 Patch 1.00b released  (Read 117816 times)

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From what I can tell in Marisa's ending Yukari tells her that Sagume is probably an Amanojaku and then Marisa explains the occult stone origin. Then she calls Yukari out by telling her she thought she was supposed to be protecting the boundary but... Then Yukari just says she was busy and I think takes the occult ball Marisa still had with her somehow, hmm... Remember to please take these translations with a grain of salt as I'm still learning...

Thanks!

I was hoping Yukari would have an explanation.  Even if it's never touched again, good to see ZUN's realized that it's kinda bizarre she hasn't shown up or even talked about any of this stuff going on.  Though I'd prefer if it turns out she really was busy with something even worse...

Surprised it's in Marisa's ending and not Reimu's.  Unless she shows up there too, of course.

ChronaSE

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Is Clownpiece  second-to-last spellcard even possible? Seriously, it's nuts.

up-down-up-down-up-down. Just move before the laser hits your hitbox.

There's already a quality arrange of <><><><> theme on nico, dis fandom..
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 06:48:42 am by Helepolis »

☆ Hinalyte

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Is Clownpiece  second-to-last spellcard even possible? Seriously, it's nuts.
The one with double lasers right? I find it easier than the one with lasers and stars.

also >can barely remember the order of Junko's spellcards and what they look like


Finished the game on Pointdevice mode, Marisa A, normal. Somewhat happy that I unlocked Extra by just that, because I thought you need to play Legacy mode to unlock it. Game's definitely super-hard. Even harder than SA!

No opinion on the new characters/music yet, lol.
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Plubio

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Probably I just made a mistake. The spell I'm thinking of is that one with red flame-bullets that looks like they will stop before hitting you or something like that I can't read the pattern. Sorry for the trouble tho.
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The one with double lasers right? I find it easier than the one with lasers and stars.

also >can barely remember the order of Junko's spellcards and what they look like


Finished the game on Pointdevice mode, Marisa A, normal. Somewhat happy that I unlocked Extra by just that, because I thought you need to play Legacy mode to unlock it. Game's definitely super-hard. Even harder than SA!

No opinion on the new characters/music yet, lol.

Pointdevice is the actual canon occurrence according to the prologue and demo dialogue (I assume it's not a spoiler if it's going off of info in the demo that's been out for forever now), so it makes sense that it can unlock the continuation of the story, the Extra Stage.

Sagus

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You know, I'm really glad I suck at danmaku, because to me this was as enjoyable as all other Touhou games. Perhaps even a little more so, since I don't have to worry about restarting the whole game by running out of continues.

Loved the music and the new characters' designs, can't wait to see the main scenarios and their profiles translated.

Surprised it's in Marisa's ending and not Reimu's.  Unless she shows up there too, of course.
In Reimu's Point Device ending, at least, she doesn't. Dunno about Legacy mode.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 02:48:18 am by Sagus »
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ふねん1

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Okay, I stand corrected, getting resources in the second half is actually really hard without Sanae's bomb. I think this is more a case of only one shot-type "breaking" the game as opposed to the resource system itself being too lenient (well, it still is during the first half, but I digress). Technically Reimu's bomb can supergraze too with the right timing, but it's really only useful on bosses since they don't die right away like most enemies do. Hell, even milking some boss attacks for life pieces may not be entirely feasible. I don't have all those attacks sorted out in my head yet though.

And for those who want to keep track of this stuff, if my math is right, there are 82 chapters in the main game: Stage 1 = 11, Stage 2 = 12, Stage 3 = 14, Stage 4 = 13, Stage 5 =17, and Stage 6 = 15. Enough for a whopping 27 extra lives at max, but some chapters are not likely to have enough graze for a life piece, so this number will inevitably be less.

Probably I just made a mistake. The spell I'm thinking of is that one with red flame-bullets that looks like they will stop before hitting you or something like that — I can't read the pattern. Sorry for the trouble tho.
They slow down when you graze them "fully". It's essentially a scoring mechanic integrated into an attack design, which I find pretty cool. Alternate slowing down sets of bullets directly below Clownpiece and to either side (for reference, imagine similar angles to the holes in Attack on Dwarf's pattern). Don't do it too high up though, or else you'll catch too many bullets and you'll have to move even more to the side.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 04:54:24 pm by ふねん1 »
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Fulisha of Light

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Is it possible at all to do a no death run/ pacifist run for this game or are the bullet patterns too difficult to pass through?
So... is the general consensus for Junko's spell cards a result of ZUN rushing the game or done on purpose to suit her ability among people here?
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Serela

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It's pretty clear it's because of her ability/personality. Everything in the game apart from her is very... not like that. And even when she pops in in the extra stage, the only part that's like that is her. I agree that a few of her attacks are just too little, although for the most part they're fine.
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kevin1127

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So... is the general consensus for Junko's spell cards a result of ZUN rushing the game or done on purpose to suit her ability among people here?

I go with the second one

Doki-Doki

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I go with the second one
Likewise, even if it may have been bland somewhat gameplay-wise, I like the idea of her using straightforward spellcards designed to kill you instead of flaunting flashier prettier spellcards, it reflects on her deadliness as a tactful character pretty damn well.

pokemon123

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I'd say a bit of both.

ZUN tried to go for a simple feeling but didn't really capture it all that well. As jaimers said i feel like CAVE and other companies do the more "anarchy" thing far better.
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Just want to ask, since there are people accusing ZUN of rushing out the game that things are like this.

And some are saying because of who Hecatia is based on and what she is, she's likely more powerful than Eiki, though knowing how the fandom is, most people are probably going to let Yukari and maybe even Yuuka ROFLstomp her in fanworks.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 04:33:42 am by game2011 »
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The Stage 5 theme is so good. It's a shame it only gets to play for one loop, compared to the endless repetition of <><><><><>'s theme on Pointdevice runs. :U
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 06:49:19 am by Helepolis »

ふねん1

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So... is the general consensus for Junko's spell cards a result of ZUN rushing the game or done on purpose to suit her ability among people here?

It's at the very least the second option, but see, that's the one thing I don't get about Junko's attacks stated as mainly being designed to kill you rather than look flashy. Isn't every other attack in this game basically like that too, by virtue of their difficulty if nothing else? This could really be extended to danmaku in general - even if plenty of attacks in this game and earlier entries could be considered "not very good" at doing that job, that is still what they're designed to be at their core: things meant to kill you. If there was supposed to be a distinction between Junko and everyone else, then it pretty much completely falls flat on its face IMO.

The Stage 5 theme is so good. It's a shame it only gets to play for one loop, compared to the endless repetition of Clownpiece's theme on Pointdevice runs. :U
Yeah, I'm steadily warming up to it myself. I'm still not sure how many songs from the second half of the game are really gonna stick with me, but at least this one is off to a good start.
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Maybe to distinguish from attacks designed to kill you while looking flashy. It also helps that Junko does kill you pretty quickly.

Clarste

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It's at the very least the second option, but see, that's the one thing I don't get about Junko's attacks stated as mainly being designed to kill you rather than look flashy. Isn't every other attack in this game basically like that too, by virtue of their difficulty if nothing else? This could really be extended to danmaku in general - even if plenty of attacks in this game and earlier entries could be considered "not very good" at doing that job, that is still what they're designed to be at their core: things meant to kill you. If there was supposed to be a distinction between Junko and everyone else, then it pretty much completely falls flat on its face IMO.

I agree. There's nothing specifically lethal about Junko or her attacks. It makes sense that they're "pure", but she's not really trying to kill you any more than anyone else is.

kevin1127

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It's at the very least the second option, but see, that's the one thing I don't get about Junko's attacks stated as mainly being designed to kill you rather than look flashy. Isn't every other attack in this game basically like that too, by virtue of their difficulty if nothing else? This could really be extended to danmaku in general - even if plenty of attacks in this game and earlier entries could be considered "not very good" at doing that job, that is still what they're designed to be at their core: things meant to kill you. If there was supposed to be a distinction between Junko and everyone else, then it pretty much completely falls flat on its face IMO.

My excuse explanation would be that it's not her "purpose" of killing that makes her pattern simple (although she really wants to kill people) but rather it's her "ability" that makes her pattern simple.
Sorry I can't find a good way to explain this my English sucks, the simplest way I can put is this: her ability purify her bullet pattern
I like how the extra stage theme has immediate allusions to Doremi's boss theme.
Maybe Clownpiece also defies the difficulty logic in terms of having easy and normal spellcards being minutely easier than hard and lunatic spellcards. Anyway I hope events in TH16 doesn't get worse (in terms of destroying both Gensokyo and the outside world since even powerful characters from hell are introduced into the series now.

Reu

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I agree. There's nothing specifically lethal about Junko or her attacks. It makes sense that they're "pure", but she's not really trying to kill you any more than anyone else is.
If you ask me, each boss spellcard is based around their respective characteristics/personality, Junko isn't here to play games or do a job, she's here for straight up revenge and has been waiting for this day for quite some time, it's understandable that she doesn't feel the need to/want to think of fancy patterns and really just want you out of the way, especially when she's just the epitome of pure anger at this point.
Hence some of her spellcard names,
This is unlike the other characters even in this game, with Kishin not exactly trying to stop you and ClownPiece just having fun with her patterns.
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After watching a stream by one of our local players last night, I can safely say that ZUN successfully captured the essence of "I Wanna be the Guy" in LoLK. Several spells were simply "grind until you find the right way to advance", which might be a turn-off for some players. Obviously, this is somewhat of a radical departure from the Touhou we're used to, because the mechanics of the game make it feel like some of the side games instead of previous mainline/whole-number games.

Gameplay talk aside, the music (at least from the stream) sounds as good as ever, and I'm sure remixes will come shortly after. Character designs are a mixed bag, though I won't talk about that too much since we all have our own opinions. Graphics are similar to DDC from what I can tell, so that's that.

Needless to say I'm looking forward to buying and playing this game once it starts selling on Playism (or somewhere similar), and by then I'll likely talk a bit about gameplay from my own point of view. I might even post a video of my first playthrough...

ChronaSE

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So in the end Junko didn't get her revenge against Chang'e? that's frustrating I bet. Hopefully Chang'e appears on a future game, wonder how would she look like.

Also I though this is kinda neat, she changes haircolor~ https://40.media.tumblr.com/56b1b09a61dc5fa643f380527ba1cca9/tumblr_nt3g31LRqk1uyyvbbo1_540.png
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 07:04:10 am by ChronaSE »

Clarste

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If you ask me, each boss spellcard is based around their respective characteristics/personality, Junko isn't here to play games or do a job, she's here for straight up revenge and has been waiting for this day for quite some time, it's understandable that she doesn't feel the need to/want to think of fancy patterns and really just want you out of the way, especially when she's just the epitome of pure anger at this point.
Hence some of her spellcard names,
This is unlike the other characters even in this game, with Kishin not exactly trying to stop you and ClownPiece just having fun with her patterns.

That's not really what her personality is like though. If you're playing on Pointdevice mode, she actually gives up before the fight, considering her loss an inevitability. I mean, she's definitely pissed at Chang'e, but she has nothing against anyone else. She made friends with Hecatia, and was sincerely hoping that the Lunar Capital would be able to stop her, because winning so easily would be boring. If you're playing on Legacy mode and have ever died, she taunts you for dying a lot.

Just because she's an embodiment of a grudge doesn't mean she can't think long term.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 07:18:09 am by Clarste »

Sagus

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Also I though this is kinda neat, she changes haircolor~ https://40.media.tumblr.com/56b1b09a61dc5fa643f380527ba1cca9/tumblr_nt3g31LRqk1uyyvbbo1_540.png
Hah, she also changes which world goes on her hat, matching the hair color with the planet's color. That's hilarious. We now know why ZUN toned down the level of silly hats in recent games; it was just so we would lower our guards before he unveiled Hecatia here, the absolute Queen of Ridiculous Hats. It's no coincidence that Clownpiece also has a particularly silly hat.

Seriously, Hecatia gives Shikieiki a run for her money in this department.

EDIT: Hm, just realized that the fact that she changes her hair color (and eye color too, it seems) when she changes the world on the top of her hat is likely a reference to the fact that she has three different bodies (one for each of those worlds). That's kinda cool.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 07:31:35 am by Sagus »
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Hah, she also changes which world goes on her hat, matching the hair color with the planet's color. That's hilarious. We now know why ZUN toned down the level of silly hats in recent games; it was just so we would lower our guards before he unveiled Hecatia here, the absolute Queen of Ridiculous Hats. It's no coincidence that Clownpiece also has a particularly silly hat.

Seriously, Hecatia gives Shikieiki a run for her money in this department.

EDIT: Hm, just realized that the fact that she changes her hair color (and eye color too, it seems) when she changes the world on the top of her hat is likely a reference to the fact that she has three different bodies (one for each of those worlds). That's kinda cool.


not only that, but her danmaku also references the world she's currently, well, using a hat of.  Spirit World spellcards, Earth (Hell) spellcards, Moon spellcards.  She's got all of it!  I guess it makes sense she's using the spirit world hat as the default, since they're fighting in the dream world. 

kevin1127

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not only that, but her danmaku also references the world she's currently, well, using a hat of.  Spirit World spellcards, Earth (Hell) spellcards, Moon spellcards.  She's got all of it!  I guess it makes sense she's using the spirit world hat as the default, since they're fighting in the dream world. 

Agree, and I love this concept very much.
Her bullet color also changes (Both in nonspell and spellcard, but nonspell is more obvious) based on the world.
If I remember correctly, red is spirit world, blue is earth, and yellow is moon.

GuppyForce

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Probably I just made a mistake. The spell I'm thinking of is that one with red flame-bullets that looks like they will stop before hitting you or something like that I can't read the pattern. Sorry for the trouble tho.
Pretty much what Funen said but for me I have to dash up and down to create a comfortable enough space to dash out through. Not sure if the difficulty has anything to do with it (I'm playing on normal).

The one spell I can't figure out is the Stage 4 first spellcard. I'm not sure if I'm missing something big here since no one seems to be commenting about it.

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Am I allowed to put pictures of Clownpiece in my avatar and signature, or would that be considered spoilers?
>Sʜᴇ'ʟʟ ɢᴏ ᴀʟᴏɴᴇ, ᴀɴᴅ ɴᴇᴠᴇʀ sᴘᴇᴀᴋ ᴏғ ᴛʜɪs ᴀɢᴀɪɴ. Wᴇ ᴅᴇᴘᴇɴᴅ ᴏɴ ʏᴏᴜ. Wᴇ ᴅᴇᴘᴇɴᴅ... I'ʟʟ ᴅᴇᴘᴇɴᴅ ᴏɴ ʏᴏᴜ.
>I ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ᴍᴜᴄʜ ᴀʙᴏᴜᴛ ʏᴏᴜʀ ʟɪғᴇ ʙᴇʏᴏɴᴅ ᴛʜᴇsᴇ ᴡᴀʟʟs.
>Tʜᴇ ғʟᴇᴇᴛɪɴɢ sᴇɴsᴇ ᴏғ ʟᴏᴠᴇ ʙᴇᴛᴡᴇᴇɴ ᴛʜᴇsᴇ ɢᴏᴅ-ғᴏʀsᴀᴋᴇɴ ʜᴀʟʟs
>Aɴᴅ ʏᴏᴜ ᴄᴀɴ ʜᴇᴀʀ ɪᴛ ɪɴ ʜɪs ᴠᴏɪᴄᴇ, ɪɴ ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴄᴀʟʟ.
>Tʜɪs ɢɪʀʟ ᴡʜᴏ's sʟᴇᴘᴛ ᴀ ʜᴜɴᴅʀᴇᴅ ʏᴇᴀʀs ʜᴀs sᴏᴍᴇᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀғᴛᴇʀ ᴀʟʟ.
That's not really what her personality is like though. If you're playing on Pointdevice mode, she actually gives up before the fight, considering her loss an inevitability. I mean, she's definitely pissed at Chang'e, but she has nothing against anyone else. She made friends with Hecatia, and was sincerely hoping that the Lunar Capital would be able to stop her, because winning so easily would be boring. If you're playing on Legacy mode and have ever died, she taunts you for dying a lot.

Just because she's an embodiment of a grudge doesn't mean she can't think long term.


Speaking of mythology, I was actually wondering sure that Junko's backstory sounds quite sad and all, but in the chinese legend didn't Houyi shoot down the evil suns for good reason?  They were destroying/going to destroy mankind or something like that.  Does the game ever reference what happened, in the touhou-canon?  Because if so, and it's anything like how the legend says, the whole game would be simplified as 'two wrongs don't make a right', heh.
 

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