Author Topic: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now  (Read 126948 times)

Shimatora

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #270 on: October 28, 2011, 03:25:36 PM »
Pressing the right arrow key takes you to the user replays.

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Paper Conan

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #271 on: October 29, 2011, 04:06:37 AM »
Sakuya can Perfect Maid in midair in Hisoutensoku.  :o

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #272 on: October 30, 2011, 04:00:02 AM »
Yuyuko's theme "Ghost Lead" can be read as "Ghost Lied".

Drake

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #273 on: October 30, 2011, 05:06:06 AM »
I don't think you pronounce 'lied' as you do リード. Read, lead, feed, mead, weed, etc.

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7TC7

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #274 on: October 30, 2011, 04:58:16 PM »
I don't think you pronounce 'lied' as you do リード. Read, lead, feed, mead, weed, etc.

Assuming he ment the german word "Lied", which means "song" in english, it's pronounced the same way as "Lead".
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #275 on: November 02, 2011, 02:17:28 AM »
There is a bug in a spell practice at ten desires where soga no tojiko's spellcard, if you die right at the time you defeat tojiko it will result in TOjiko's prite becomes futo sprite

KrackoCloud

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #276 on: November 06, 2011, 06:50:48 AM »
Shikieki is canonically stronger than Yukari, but why? I've thought about this for a while, and my initial answer was just because she has raw, absolute power.
But that word - Absolute - Has made me come up with a little theory that goes just a little bit farther.

Yukari's power is boundaries and borders. Shikieki's ability is absolute judgment.
No matter how much Yukari manipulates a border, its two sides will always exist. For a border to reach one side completely would mean it's no longer a border.
At the same time, Shikieki practically lives on the edges of the two sides. In other words, she's untouchable by boundary manipulation.
For example, if Yukari moved the border of right and wrong to make practically everything 'wrong,' Shikieki would still be righteous. Why? Because she is always at the absolute edge of the 'right' side, the point that the boundary can never overtake, and judges everything by these absolute edges - An untouchable standard.

It's a little ambitious of a theory, and I certainly don't suggest this is the main reason Shikieiki is stronger than Yukari, but it's a nice image to show the difference between the two.

Drake

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #277 on: November 06, 2011, 07:35:00 AM »
I've probably mentioned it before, but Yukari says that Yuyuko, Reimu and herself together are "no match" for the Yama. Most people seem to immediately jump to say Shikieiki > everyone, which is a possibility I suppose, but it's really tough to say looking at the context. It isn't like Yukari was going to start a fight with the Yama or anything, and it wouldn't progress beyond a danmaku fight anyways, so why bother leaving in the first place? Obviously, it was to avoid her lectures. In an argument, there's no way any of them could beat Shikieiki; she would have them there for ages. The words used are 逆らえない which is "shouldn't defy/disobey", and 退却 which is "retreat". They aren't exactly "cannot defeat" and "leave"; it seems to me to be more of a play by Yukari like "we don't want her to see us; we'd better make a tactical retreat" (because she's a bother).
Or, you could take it to mean "she could really screw us over if we got on her bad side". The Yamas govern Hakugyokurou, which gives her precedence over Yuyuko; Reimu is simply a human and will end up being judged one day; and who knows what kind of crap Eiki has on Yukari.
Either way I don't truly give in to the "Shiki is more powerful than Yukari, Yuyuko and Reimu because Yukari wanted to leave before they crossed paths" thing.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #278 on: November 06, 2011, 03:12:31 PM »
Younger sisters are almost always stronger than their older sister.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #279 on: November 07, 2011, 09:59:11 AM »
Mamizou notes and sake bottle are floating at the official art or it has string in it :V

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #280 on: November 07, 2011, 10:53:55 AM »
@Drake:
Well, I am one of those people that do believe it, because that is what I am getting from the reading, but if a better translation says otherwise,
I will probably change my view. Right now, when I read A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years, from the context it seems to imply
"a very strong presence" (I assume this means Eiki) to be extremely powerful, because of their entrance(flowers fearing their presence and all that).
Also, I assume  she does not mean fighting via spell card rules, because everyone supposedly has an equal chances or something like that in spell
card rules.


Some things I never realize back then. I remember reading that the Hakurei Barrier was created in 1885 and I could never find the source.
So, I couldn't understand why that was fact, since from what I know, there's a barrier of sorts hundreds of years ago in Yukari's profile.
Until, of course someone pointed out that in PoFV there is mention of it and I was like, oh I finally figured out why.


Oh, and I used to think Rumia and Remilia were the same person.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #281 on: November 07, 2011, 01:41:13 PM »
I don't really know what to add without seeming stupid...
Alice calls Reimu a bitch in Imperishable Night-I just realised how snarky she is in all the non-fighting games when talking to Marisa. it makes sense, but I lol'd at their interactions in IN. And she seems bloodthirsty against Eirin... Just going against fan perception as a timid girl, I guess...
Also, I JUST realised that Nue Houjuu is a midboss in TD, making her the first and only Extra Boss to be delegated to midboss level...
Kinda like poor Kogasa, and Stage 1 Yuyuko...
URAMESHIYA!!!!!!!!!!
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Chronojet ⚙ Dragon

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #282 on: November 07, 2011, 04:00:26 PM »
Also, I JUST realised that Nue Houjuu is a midboss in TD, making her the first and only Extra Boss to be delegated to midboss level...

Technically, Ran is Yukari's midboss, but it's in the Phantasm stage, which made her just a much harder version of Chen.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #283 on: November 07, 2011, 06:17:33 PM »
I don't really know what to add without seeming stupid...
Alice calls Reimu a bitch in Imperishable Night-I just realised how snarky she is in all the non-fighting games when talking to Marisa. it makes sense, but I lol'd at their interactions in IN. And she seems bloodthirsty against Eirin... Just going against fan perception as a timid girl, I guess...
Also, I JUST realised that Nue Houjuu is a midboss in TD, making her the first and only Extra Boss to be delegated to midboss level...
Kinda like poor Kogasa, and Stage 1 Yuyuko...
URAMESHIYA!!!!!!!!!!


I believe fans think Alice is timid because her profile states she's a coward. That and she is very mild-mannered in the fighting games a lot of the times, and described as helping humans in such a fashion in Perfect Memento.

However, this is all BECAUSE of the cowardice. Alice IS a psychopath of sorts. As shown in IN, and even in some of the fighting games (she starts to get particularly snarky with Tenshi, for example). In addition, Perfect Memento says she enjoys getting into duels.

If this explanation seems mixed up/contradictory, that would be because Alice's personality is a bit complicated, in large part thanks to that cowardice.  ....okay, I'll admit, I'm distracted in real life now too, so apologies if this explanation ends up being a bit incoherent or contradictory.

As pointed out by Suika, she basically avoids the strong youkai while interacting with humans and weaker youkai. So you'll see her acting mild mannered when the threat of strong youkai are around (check out her interactions with the SDM in the fighting games. She even explicitly states she doesn't want to run into the mistress, which likely explains why she's so polite to its denizons. She's more than happy to attack Sakuya when Sakuya is away from the SDM in the fighting games, though) while being snarky when dealing with beings she's familiar with (Reimu, Marisa, and possibly Yukari).

By default, given her interactions with Suika,Tenshi, the three fairies (before she knew they were fairies), and Eirin, she seems to run under the assumption that new people she meets can be taken on. I'm going to assume this is because she's overall confident in her abilities (thus overall willing to tackle new threats without bothering to research/worry about them being too powerful), yet realizes that her ego will be shattered if she's ever defeated while fighting at full power.

Her interaction with the three fairies also shows that it's a bit of a defensive measure. She's hostile to new beings because she thinks they're a threat to her (which might be a bit of a form of cowardice as well, as a being who knows little of fear probably wouldn't get so defensive), but once she finds out the three fairies are just fairies, she suddenly becomes much more friendly to them.

Or... something like that.

Given my current distracted state in real life, I'm not sure if I should be pressing the "Post" button to this or not.

.....eh, oh well, here goes.

_cf

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #284 on: November 09, 2011, 06:10:51 PM »
I've probably mentioned it before, but Yukari says that Yuyuko, Reimu and herself together are "no match" for the Yama. Most people seem to immediately jump to say Shikieiki > everyone, which is a possibility I suppose, but it's really tough to say looking at the context. It isn't like Yukari was going to start a fight with the Yama or anything, and it wouldn't progress beyond a danmaku fight anyways, so why bother leaving in the first place? Obviously, it was to avoid her lectures. In an argument, there's no way any of them could beat Shikieiki; she would have them there for ages. The words used are 逆らえない which is "shouldn't defy/disobey", and 退却 which is "retreat". They aren't exactly "cannot defeat" and "leave"; it seems to me to be more of a play by Yukari like "we don't want her to see us; we'd better make a tactical retreat" (because she's a bother).
Or, you could take it to mean "she could really screw us over if we got on her bad side". The Yamas govern Hakugyokurou, which gives her precedence over Yuyuko; Reimu is simply a human and will end up being judged one day; and who knows what kind of crap Eiki has on Yukari.
Either way I don't truly give in to the "Shiki is more powerful than Yukari, Yuyuko and Reimu because Yukari wanted to leave before they crossed paths" thing.
I think it's both. Maybe "power" is not the best word, but Shikieiki's "authority" should be supreme. It has to be, because part of her job is sending very powerful beings to their punishments in hell, and that couldn't happen if powerful ghosts could rebel and start smashing things. So she has ways to control and compel everyone, which mean no chances to "fight" her and end up winning. (games like spellcards apart, of course)

That aside, she's also a good meaning person with the ability to be always right, and a meddlesome, nagging personality. This makes her a very disagreeable company for people like Yukari and Yuyuko (and, to be frank, to Reimu and 99% of Gensokyans).

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #285 on: November 09, 2011, 11:28:35 PM »
That aside, she's also a good meaning person with the ability to be always right, and a meddlesome, nagging personality. This makes her a very disagreeable company for people like Yukari and Yuyuko (and, to be frank, to Reimu and 99% of Gensokyans).

Well, I can't say much for how to interpret Yukari's statement about Shiki's power (I don't speak Japanese), but the above quoted part is pretty much canonically confirmed. Akyu specifically states that youkai avoid Shiki for this reason (and also states that almost all long-lived youkai have been helped by Shiki at least once in their long lives. Of note is that both Tewi and Yuka appear to recognize and be familiar with Shiki off the bat in POFV, too)

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #286 on: November 10, 2011, 01:10:18 AM »
I've probably mentioned it before, but Yukari says that Yuyuko, Reimu and herself together are "no match" for the Yama. Most people seem to immediately jump to say Shikieiki > everyone, which is a possibility I suppose, but it's really tough to say looking at the context. It isn't like Yukari was going to start a fight with the Yama or anything, and it wouldn't progress beyond a danmaku fight anyways, so why bother leaving in the first place? Obviously, it was to avoid her lectures. In an argument, there's no way any of them could beat Shikieiki; she would have them there for ages. The words used are 逆らえない which is "shouldn't defy/disobey", and 退却 which is "retreat". They aren't exactly "cannot defeat" and "leave"; it seems to me to be more of a play by Yukari like "we don't want her to see us; we'd better make a tactical retreat" (because she's a bother).
Either way I don't truly give in to the "Shiki is more powerful than Yukari, Yuyuko and Reimu because Yukari wanted to leave before they crossed paths" thing.

Yes, thank you, I was starting to think I was the only one who interpreted it that way. Think about it, when was the last time anyone in Gensokyo disinclined to fight someone just because the other is stronger?
Plus, Shikieiki's ability is to see things in black and white, which would probably neatly counter Yukari and Yuyuko's tendency to use troll logic to confuse people. Would be much less of a bother for the lazy squad to simply relocate.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #287 on: November 10, 2011, 01:29:51 AM »
As an aside, I doubt Shiki lectures (...or attacks, if that's still an open question) Yuyuko EVERY time Shiki sees her. I'm under the assumption Yuyuko went along with Yukari's decision to leave more for Yukari's sake than anything else.  After all, she's an employee of yama (and it's confirmed in Youmu's ending
Spoiler:
that Shiki drops by talk with Yuyuko about other subjects from time to time.  In this case, Youmu's training

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #288 on: November 10, 2011, 01:33:47 AM »
Quote
Alice calls Reimu a bitch in Imperishable Night

She was quoting Marisa.

Drake

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #289 on: November 10, 2011, 01:50:18 AM »
She also didn't say bitch.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #290 on: November 10, 2011, 02:08:30 AM »
As an aside, I doubt Shiki lectures (...or attacks, if that's still an open question) Yuyuko EVERY time Shiki sees her. I'm under the assumption Yuyuko went along with Yukari's decision to leave more for Yukari's sake than anything else.  After all, she's an employee of yama (and it's confirmed in Youmu's ending
Spoiler:
that Shiki drops by talk with Yuyuko about other subjects from time to time.  In this case, Youmu's training
Yeah, I agree, I don't think Eiki attacks anybody. It doesn't make any sense for her to attack, defend herself and other people, but not attack.


@haoreos2:
The reason I interpret it like that is because of the text and the context of the text, if the translation is correct. They were pretty
much talking about combat ability in that context. Since prior to her arrival, they talk about her passive power output.
However, I do not believe Eiki would actually attack anybody.
Also given who Eiki is, it makes sense. Her title pretty much tells you she is THE Yama or Enma, as they are interchangeable.
So, her rule is second to none in the world of the dead. In almost all mythologies, Death, if it has a form, is considered powerful and
absolute, and that is what Eiki essentially represents.
This is probably why you don't see her, she is not of Gensokyo or of this world, as she puts it.

Also, Yuuka hints to us that she believes Eiki is probably the strongest in Gensokyo from her quote:
Quote
Do you think when you're not teased,
you're above everyone else?
Let's make it as clear as black and white who of us is the strongest in Gensokyo!

With both of these, I assume A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years refers actual strength.

Drake

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #291 on: November 10, 2011, 02:55:21 AM »
The reason I interpret it like that is because of the text and the context of the text, if the translation is correct. They were pretty much talking about combat ability in that context. Since prior to her arrival, they talk about her passive power output.
The translation is correct, it just isn't literally correct. The "context" you're talking about is also misinterpreted by taking the whole passage fairly literally. They were not talking about combat ability.

wikitrans: very strong presence
jappo: 大きな気
meaning: large presence; the "strong" used is more like "grandiose" or "important" or whatever, than actual power

wikitrans: we're no match for them
jappo: あの方には逆らえない
meaning: as for them, should not oppose; while it could mean "stronger", isn't necessarily, given the characters, setting, and gensokyo in general

As I mentioned, I take it to mean more of Yukari going "Err, I think the Yama's coming. Better skedaddle before she sees us." Of course, as previously said, it doesn't directly contradict the possibility of Shiki > everyone. It does however contradict using the passage as absolute evidence that Shiki > everyone. Most people just seem to take those passages the wrong way, and I myself don't particularly follow that stance. And again, I still acknowledge that Shikieiki is incredibly powerful. Just not objectively the most powerful.

And even if you take the title to mean actual strength (even though it likely doesn't and is just a wordplay on Yukari's name and the flowers that are the subject matter of 90% of the story), wouldn't it be weird to just imply that Shiki only becomes strong every sixty years?

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #292 on: November 10, 2011, 03:10:50 AM »
@Drake: (Regarding the swearing) Oh? In my translation, which I got from the wiki, she does. Not in a particularly mean manner, though.
@Starxsword: I doubt she would attack anyone, really, if they didn't do it first (which, as an aside, actually supports the not-talking-about-her-power theory). She's very reasonable, despite what fanon seems to show. Plus, she is referred to as the yama in charge of Gensokyo, which means she isn't the only one. More like a county sherriff, or something. I also think her theme is closer to the judge of the dead than death itself, which would be more fitting for the shinigami (the ones that actually do the reaping, not the ferrymen like Komachi), and it is already shown that people without cracks in their hearts can consistently defeat them in any case. As for Yuuka, as far as I know, she hasn't actually met Yukari, Suika, the oni king, tengu boss... well, anyone most people would consider in the running, really, except for Shikieiki. She spends most of her time in a flower field or the human village.

I don't actually remember where the conversation takes place, though. I do recall deciding against the Yukari-was-referring-to-power interpretation, but without having the text in front of me I can't remark on that.

Drake

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #293 on: November 10, 2011, 03:27:20 AM »
She says 「邪魔だ、そこをどけ」. While そこをどけ p much means "get out of the way", 邪魔 means interruption/hindrance/obstacle/a bother, or something to that extent. While it is rude (of course she's also quoting something Marisa would say), she doesn't explicitly say "bitch", which if she wanted to could have been said a million different ways that had nothing to do with the implicit rudeness of the statement.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #294 on: November 10, 2011, 03:36:57 AM »
@Drake:
Oh, I see. I guess getting context is difficult, because of translation.
I think it is the influence of all the fighting animes I watch. I was under the impression that 大きな気 meant huge ki.
I also believe the title is more likely a wordplay on Yukari's name.

That is a case of translation and interpretation, heh.

@haoreos2:
Yeah, there are more than one Yama, but she is ranked the highest. At least, if her title: Highest Judge of Paradise, is to be believed.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #295 on: November 10, 2011, 04:11:22 AM »
Paradise being Gensokyo, innit? I.E, top Yama of Gensokyo.

@Drake: well yeah, she wouldn't have said the word itself, being an english word, but it's the meaning that counts. Besides, the music change when Marisa says it fits far too well =3
Must admit I paused and laughed in disbelief for about half a minute the first time I got that far.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #296 on: November 10, 2011, 08:56:22 AM »
Paradise being Gensokyo, innit? I.E, top Yama of Gensokyo.
That is possible, but I don't believe so. It is up to your interpretation. I can only present evidence.
Eiki mentions she is not of Gensokyo in PoFV and she is referred to by Akyuu as the supreme judge of hell.
Some relevant quotes from PMiSS:
Quote
One of the many Yamas.
As she is in charge of judging the dead of Gensokyo, she is the Yama with the closest ties to us. (*1)
1: Yamaxanadu is actually a job title at the Ministry of Right and Wrong. The meaning is literal: the Yama of Paradise.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #297 on: November 10, 2011, 09:58:56 AM »
True, it is a matter of interpretation. If it's worth anything, in Buddhism there are ten Yama for each hell, which means it's a pretty small group in any case.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #298 on: November 10, 2011, 11:29:14 AM »
Most of the Windows titles are vaguely obvious.

Embodiment of Scarlet Devil - Remi
Perfect Cherry Blossom - Yuyuko's goal
Immaterial and Missing Power - Suika
Imperishable Night - What happens
Shoot the Bullet - Photo Shoot of Bullets
Mountain of Faith - The mounrain is where they seek faith. Also Kanako is tryng to gather a 'mountain of faith'
Fairy Wars - Obvious
Ten Desires -
Spoiler:
Miko's ability to hear ten desires

J.O.B

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff that you still haven't noticed until now
« Reply #299 on: November 10, 2011, 12:51:48 PM »
Undefined Fantastic Object - The mysterious flying object in the sky which turns out to be the Palanquin ship.
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody - Scarlet temperament flowing from everyones bodies, creating various effects to the weather.