Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER

[Serp]

VOTECOUNT  -  Mod Needs Sleep Too Edition

Shadoweh (5):  NeoSerela, PX, Schezo, Dormio, Kilgamayan, huh what  (L-2)
Kilgamayan (1):  capt. h
Schezo (1):  huh what, Kilgamayan
PX (1):  Colt, Dormio, capt. h
huh what (1):  Bardiche
Dormio (0):  capt. h
Bardiche (0):  capt. h
Colt (0):  huh what

Not Voting:  Edible, Shadoweh, Zakeri

Not Voting:  Edible, Shadoweh, Zakeri

With 12 votes in play, 7 are required to lynch.  Under 31 hours remain in the day.

[Bardiche]

Kilga, I don't think his argument can be the scum quicklynch: if you are scum and scum would quicklynch, that'd mean two scum had to pile on... which exposes the one outside the bucket list. I cannot imagine Capt H would make the argument that scum'd throw the game just to lynch Shadoweh.

[capt. h]

Kilga, I don't think his argument can be the scum quicklynch: if you are scum and scum would quicklynch, that'd mean two scum had to pile on... which exposes the one outside the bucket list. I cannot imagine Capt H would make the argument that scum'd throw the game just to lynch Shadoweh.

Good point. I guess there isn't any danger to L-2.

##Unvote

[Edible]

@Bard: I'm here, just in and out.  Trying to keep up with the game but busy otherwise.

I've shifted my views from Shoot Kilga and Lynch Schezo to I Don't Care What Order We Do It In But Let's Kill Schezo And Lynch Shadoweh.  As stated previously, I think either Shadoweh or Bard is third party/scum and therefore set off my ability.  Bardiche's crumb and subsequent full admission of UK's death when such information was not actively being searched for is interesting and I'm willing to put him further back on the lynch order of the List of Five, but if Shadoweh refuses to play along as she's been doing all damn day then there's very little we can do (outside of Dormio's apparent day-block).  Said anti-town behavior from Shadoweh also makes me less willing to tolerate her over Bard for the time being.

I realize at this point I haven't actually voted anyone.  Let's change that.

@Dormio: I do think we should let Shadoweh off someone, preferably Schezo or herself, before we lynch her.  Better that two names get scratched off my list than one.

##vote Schezo

[Bardiche]

And then capt h proves me wrong. Your entire case was "Kilga voted Shadoweh to L-2!" and yet you claim you made every effort to hunt scum? You shouldn't feel insulted because this is exactly what I am talking about.



Zakeri hasn't posted in 80 hours, give or take, and it bothers me that if he makes a post soon he can saunter into D3 with almost NOTHING on the table except for his weird vote for Conqueror.

[Shadoweh]

Except right now you two effectively ARE the people rushing to lynch me and the one vote after would be some random passerby who loses it for town tomorrow.

Bardiche: Your reason for killing UK is worse then mine for killing you and doesn't explain why you didn't kill huh what. You effectively killed her because she called you out on making a post meant to end the RVS with the intention of not being there and waking up to see the mess you caused. Surprise, someone voted you for it. Then she went on to find a real case. You are openly claiming to have killed her over a stupid ED1 case based around the border between RVS and real voting. Also, she voted for Hanged Hourai at the end and verified NeoSerela's role. No one else is apparently going to call you on this. Kilga sure isn't. He will Die For This Ship.

Well, Bard doesn't appear to be dead. Thanks Dormio.

I am the Town Heroic Vigilante. My ability is to have no qualms about taking justice into my own hands and shooting whoever I think is a zombie. I am not a one-shot vig. Starting Day 2 I have a vig shot every day. If I shoot a Townie, I am not likely to die. If I shoot a zombie, because they go down harder, I am not likely to survive the day. So there you go. Basically every time I take a shot I play Russian Roulette with myself and someone else. My role is incredibly vague about what will and will not kill me so after I took my shot I didn't care if I was the lynch. There was a chance I was dead anyways. I assume though that if I shot a townie today I would live until tomorrow. This is why I preferred the idea of lynching the Obvious Zombie Schezo instead of shooting him. If I lived to tomorrow I would have offered my second shot as proof that I'm not scum and see where town would take it from there. Except now I can't do that. I can't prove I have more then one shot because by then we'll be in LYLO with no way to tell who's really a zombie. I can't prove I'm not a serial killer either by commiting suicide. So I am effectively screwed and have no excuse to offer because I expected to use my power and die today.

Kilga: Oh, then that is pretty much what I did. My shot, my responsibility. However I did keep my target to what town had decided was the best group of people to kill. Other people wanted to keep you alive because you're a valuable player. I choose a course that had a possibility of clearing you because of that instead of honoring your own suicidal urges. When trying to explain this role to one of my friends I equated it to giving a shotgun to a dying person.

[Kilgamayan]

I'm not even sure what unilateral means. I assume it means tried to shoot Bardiche. Can you explain to me why you would rather die yourself then see Bardiche eat a bullet?

Two major reasons.

- Bard's role, in the limited amount of description that it has received, is more useful than mine.

- It's no secret I've been fucking up badly for most of the game. I work a full-time job and a part-time job and the Wednesday-Thursday interval also comes with evening rehearsal commitments to church group. On top of all that, I came down with a sore throat on Tuesday and have had a nasty cold ever since, meaning late evenings have recently been devoted to bed ahead of this game. It has been ostensibly impossible to sit down and concentrate on this game because the majority of the time I've been able to devote to it has been picking out random minutes during the work day where I can peek in and get a quick, cold-addled assessment of what has gone on since the last time I looked. I know I am town, but I strongly feel Bard is town also, and it is not hard to assess that he could very well be more useful to town in the long run than me. I win with the town; I would be remiss to take actions that I feel are not in the town's overall best interest.

[Shadoweh]

I put forth that Bard is in fact not as town as you think he is and is more likely to be a Serial Killer or Scum then Town. He killed someone that was playing pretty town instead of the various lurkers or the person he had a case on that was going nowhere, because she voted him for his Anti-RVS Shenanigans. I realize you can't see my alignment so you can't see it from my perspective. My kills go off in front of everyone. His kill was in the night phase. If you lynch him instead of me Dormio can keep cockblocking dayblocking me, he can't do that with Bard. I would also point to how Bard felt no need to roleclaim when he was literally going to be shot, and then suddenly Dormio is dayblocking me. You of all people should know that unless you have a cop on someone the only person you can be sure isn't scum is YOU.

[Shadoweh]

Okay, have to go to work, try not to hammer me while I'm out!

[Bardiche]

My case on UK was going nowhere, and I killed her because she refused to respond to my inquiries. Even disregarding the fact she voted me for that absurd point and demanded clarification on a point she never acknowledged, I disliked her ignoring that case and wanted her gone for that. I admit I may have been biased due to UK and my history together, but. Trying to contort reality does not speak in your favour.

[capt. h]

My case on UK was going nowhere, and I killed her because she refused to respond to my inquiries. Even disregarding the fact she voted me for that absurd point and demanded clarification on a point she never acknowledged, I disliked her ignoring that case and wanted her gone for that. I admit I may have been biased due to UK and my history together, but. Trying to contort reality does not speak in your favour.

See, I'm confused, you made one post about UK total. I'll post your remarks on UK:

UK finds it interesting people didn't mention Zakeri. Does interesting equal scummy?

Huh What, why did you need to have a major epiphany before you concluded that your vote on me was, in fact, absolute crud?

There's just so many people I want to vote for, but I still have only one vote (and no six hammer votes to crumble either ) so I'm going to go with the one who I find most egregious. ##UNVOTE
##VOTE: UncertainKitten

You mention that you worry how easily the wagon on Conq was made. I take this as a worry that there may be scum intent founded in voting him. Yet you seem to agree he is the scummiest person around.

Why make this mention at all? Shouldn't it be a good thing lots of people pile on the person who looks scummiest to you?

This mystery, along with the dogged idea that voting me until page 6 was going to yield a groundbreaking revelation, as well as a plethora of friendly conversation that sadly has no real bearance on the here and now of the game raise you to my utmost scum state. It's this post that's funny, because you're saying there's enough to work with to make cases, and yet you have made no effort to do so yet other than prodding and prying.

This feels like a cheerlead. Conqueror and capt H are scummy, but I'm not going to pursue it, is how I read that.

Now, I'm rather curious why you didn't pursue UK more than you did if you really wanted her to answer your questions. You spend a lot more time on Huh What than UK, after all.

[Bardiche]

Because I tried, and got nothing for it. No one else seemed it worthy to comment on it and short of incredulously going "OMG UK Y U DO DIS" I had few options. I took the easy way to deal with it.

Also:

"Dormio blocked Shadoweh who he thinks is scum!" and "Kilgamayan voted Shadoweh to L-2!!", the latter of which isn't very telling of scummy behaviour to me. Perhaps you can elucidate that?

There are no given reasons to jump off of Shadoweh to begin with and by now, you seem completely convinced Shadoweh is town. Why?

if you were convinced he was scum, and wanted to put honest-to-god scumhunting in, why did you not pursue other arguments to underline why PX is scummy?

Why do you abandon that case in lieu of Dormio?

(should of course be: "for Dormio")

Why is there no effort to further convince the town that PX is scum based on your belief that he has someone write his arguments for him and is, thusly, scum?

What is with people and ignoring my inquiries this game? :V

[capt. h]

Because I tried, and got nothing for it. No one else seemed it worthy to comment on it and short of incredulously going "OMG UK Y U DO DIS" I had few options. I took the easy way to deal with it.

Also: (should of course be: "for Dormio")
What is with people and ignoring my inquiries this game? :V

Honest answer or answer that'll make you feel good?

Anyway, lets answer your questions.

1. I thought Kilga voting Shadoweh to L-2 was scummy because Schezo doing it was scummy. Dormio blocking a vig kill on our list of people who are probabloy zombies is scummy because it's a free kill on a major scum suspect. Dormio really did put us back a day when he blocked Shadoweh, and that's a very scummy thing to do.

2. I'm convinced I can lynch shadoweh tomorrow if he is scum, not that he is town. I am also convinced his vig kill can help us either way, so I figure let him take the shot.

3. I stopped being convinced PX was scum when Conq. showed his list. I became pretty sure he wasn't scum when Dormio made that anti-town vig block.

4. I abandoned PX in favor of Dormio because anyone who gets in the way of checking Edible's list is anti-town.

5. Because that all assumes Dormio is not scum, and if nothing else Dormio is in town's way. If Dormio turns out to be town, then I'll attack PX again.

[Kilgamayan]

Musings on car ride home have given way to new thoughts of approach. It dawned on me that I may very well be in that bizarre little situation where the person I think is the scummiest and the person I think most likely to be scum are not actually the same person. I should be voting for the latter ahead of the former, so:

##Unvote: Shadoweh
##Vote: Schezo

I'm going to skip back over the day to see if I may have missed this piece of information while work-snipe-reading, but I will ask the question now regardless just in case it hasn't been said yet.

/!\ ATTN EDIBLE THIS IS IMPORTANT /!\

When you got the results from your test last night, what exactly did they say? Did they say at least two scum, at least two zombies, at least two traitors, or at least two non-towns?

[Edible]

When you got the results from your test last night, what exactly did they say? Did they say at least two scum, at least two zombies, at least two traitors, or at least two non-towns?

It specifically stated zombies.  I check blood, so it makes sense.  It wouldn't have picked up Hourai, I imagine.

I should also note that there were only two potential results yesterday - negative and positive.  Negative meant I detected only one or zero scum/zombies, positive meant I detected two or more.  I got positive.

[capt. h]

Edible: thanks for the tip about how the test works.

##Vote Schezo

Now here's what I think about Shadoweh and Bard:

They've both claimed vig powers. There is a distinct possibility that zombies have vig powers. However, Bard and Shadoweh are both covered in Edible's blood test.

I think we should use their vig powers regardless of whether or not they are zombies. For one, zombies will target vigs that help town, regardless of how scummy the vigs look, so if one of them is a town vig they will probably get night killed anyway, saving us a lynch. And until we clear Edible's list, the vigs would be helping town whether or not they were zombies. Since they are both on Edible's list, we can simply kill them if we don't find enough zombies after checking the other people on the list. By doing this, we can get more town shots at zombies than if we did not make use of their powers.

I also agree with Edible: Dormio, if you can give Shadoweh her vig shot back so that she can shoot schezo? It would be highly beneficial for town.

I agree that Schezo is the most likely to be a zombie.

[Kilgamayan]

Huh. That's actually an interesting idea, that Hourai may have been the Godmother equivalent.

Okay so.

I still think Bard has behaved in a far more pro-town fashion throughout the game than Shadoweh has but she does raise an interesting point in that Bard has claimed to have killed someone that was on Hourai rather than someone that was on Serela or someone that was being useless. There is also an interesting wurgle in the fact that Dormio, who I have had a very poor opinion of for a while, has apparently gone back on one role claim to demonstrate another ability entirely, an ability that would not be at all outlandish in scum hands, and he saved Bard from Shadoweh with it.

This is enough to make me leery of touching either of them for the time being when Schezo has none of these shenanigans surrounding him, a feeling that is exacerbated by Edible stating that his info specifically stated zombies because it allows for pairing consideration amongst those on the list. Now:

- I know I'm town.
- A Bard/Shadoweh pair would be ludicrous at this juncture unless they are both amazing actors with (testicles/ovaries) the size of Jupiter.
- I feel a Bard/huh what pair to be unlikely to the point of throwing the possibility out because they were both on Hourai yesterday and I do not see multiple scum bussing their potential Godmother like that.
- A huh what/Shadoweh pair...is actually admittedly an interesting idea, given how things have changed between them since Day 1. However huh what did come out of a Day 1 where he had voted for Hourai by gunning for Shadoweh which really makes me wonder if he would be a scum buddy with his two major targets like that.
- This leaves, for me, Schezo/??? where the doesn't really matter for the time being because Shadoweh getting blocked means we have one kill for the day. I've mulled over the player list and I've noticed that scum have an extremely small window of players that they could NK tonight without compromising their position in some capacity. This makes me all the more inclined to just go ahead and eliminate the one guy I'm 99% sure is scum simply by logical default and let the pseudo-zugzwang that the scum team is in give us more information with which to work to determine the second scum of the people on that list.

Obviously this all only works for me because of the very first bullet point, but it basically means that I'm going to sit on Schezo for the rest of the day and take my chances with new information tomorrow, because if I have a choice between making a call on Bard/Shadoweh with the info out now and making a call on Bard/Shadoweh with the info out now plus extra info from the NK as well as any other roles that pop up with something, I'm going to choose the latter 10 times out of 10.

Ninja'd by Cap providing more role speculation and proposing a plan I'm honestly having a hard time understanding. :C

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Okay.
Slightly less sleep deprived, but I need to go to the hospital in a bit over an hour.
I've only skimmed through D2 so far.
So I'll make a proper post when I get back.
Anyway, I guess a vig shot is still a vig shot.
If you really want I can give Shadoweh back her gun and take away whatever Schezo or Bardiche or whoever the hell Shadoweh wants to shoot's abilities.


Warning - HONK HONK.

[capt. h]

Okay.
Slightly less sleep deprived, but I need to go to the hospital in a bit over an hour.
I've only skimmed through D2 so far.
So I'll make a proper post when I get back.
Anyway, I guess a vig shot is still a vig shot.
If you really want I can give Shadoweh back her gun and take away whatever Schezo or Bardiche or whoever the hell Shadoweh wants to shoot's abilities.


Warning - HONK HONK.

Yes please! 

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Dormio, who I have had a very poor opinion of for a while, has apparently gone back on one role claim to demonstrate another ability entirely

Again, what previous claim?

[Kilgamayan]

If Dormio's role can actually give Shadoweh her gun back and is not simply a daytime roleblock then I suppose I would be up for having it returned to her on the condition that she agree to shoot Schezo today and absolutely no one else.

Cut by Dormio: It got pulled up earlier, let me grab it again.

[Kilgamayan]

Ah, I see now.

Anyway, Shadoweh, if you give me a heads up on your target before you shoot I should be able to guarantee that your target will die. (ie. break down bulletproof if they have it and disable things like Hourai's redirects)

This is claim of which I was thinking, and which I had previously parsed in my head as "Dormio has the power to make vig kills pierce" when the parenthetical statement would indeed line up with what he did to Shadoweh. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Not that it does anything to change the fact that you stopped Shadoweh from killing Bard (whatever the reasons). It just confirms that you didn't actually backtrack. :V

[Bardiche]

I would oppose returning the gun simply because I do not wish to die and because Shadoweh already demonstrated she will not permit town to direct the kill. The anti-town attitude of soloing the day while never providing any reasons on why anyone is scum displayed over the day also doesn't really make me eager to permit her to shoot me.

capt h, why is Schezo scummy for voting to L-2? I admit I have no real desire to read back to what particular instance you are referring.

How do Dormios actions clear PX? How does townDormio equate to scumPX, but scumDormio equate to townPX?

[capt. h]

I would oppose returning the gun simply because I do not wish to die and because Shadoweh already demonstrated she will not permit town to direct the kill. The anti-town attitude of soloing the day while never providing any reasons on why anyone is scum displayed over the day also doesn't really make me eager to permit her to shoot me.

capt h, why is Schezo scummy for voting to L-2? I admit I have no real desire to read back to what particular instance you are referring.

How do Dormios actions clear PX? How does townDormio equate to scumPX, but scumDormio equate to townPX?

Honestly, it's because I'm new at this game. Shortly after Schezo did it, Huh What said:

Ninja'd by Schezo. Haven't read it yet, but did he really need to push Shadoweh to L-2 this early?

And then Edible and Shadoweh happened and we decided Schezo was scummy. Basically, I fell into a non-sequitor, and I apologize for that.
___________________________________

In responce to your second question, in the previous game one of the players mentioned that 4 scum was typical for a game with 16 players. Since Hourai was a traitor, and two of the scum are on Edible's list, unless Edible is lying it's likely that either PX or Dormio are scum, but not both. The alternative is Edible is lying (possible), or there are 4 zombies in addition to the traitor, which would surprise me. Or there is someone else entirely (like Zak, who should either get modkilled or post twice as much as the rest of us combined to make up for his non-existance).

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

RE: Blocking Shadoweh, I only went through with it because I can give her back her abilities whenever I want.

[Shadoweh]

Kilga: I find a Kilga/Bardiche pairing to be likely, but I'm not going to try and convince you of it. I also find a huh what/Bardiche pairing to be possible if Schezo flips town.  If you give me back my gun I will shoot Dormio for doing this to me actually I'm not sure. We need a flip. My shot should set the day to 24 hours if we don't try to abuse the deadline so you all can think about it.

If Edible tested for zombies that lends more credence to my interpretation of the Traitor role. Because I have another shot tomorrow I can completely narrow down the list.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Shadoweh: You should have your gun back now, and Schezo's had his abilities taken away from him.
If you want to shoot someone else, tell me and I'll switch once I get back from the hospital.

[Kilgamayan]

Lovely. :wat:

Well, before the inevitable happens, I suppose I should pose the question of how Bard's death would possibly clear me like you claimed it would, since it would theoretically be nothing for myself as scum to endorse him because I would know him to be innocent the whole time.

[capt. h]

RE: Blocking Shadoweh, I only went through with it because I can give her back her abilities whenever I want.

Oh. :blush:

Sorry, I didn't know how the block works.

[Kilgamayan]

(The previous question assumes a town flip for Bard, of course.)