Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!

[Punch Hopper]

Derp, the header was in my notes :V. Sorry about that.

[Suwako Moriya]

No change in the vote chart. 55 minutes left!

[Sasword]

@Raz: Well, if you're talking about the time between the second and third vote on Stone, then that's even flimsier, especially considering that we have switched our votes a long time ago from there.  Your lack of any contributions past the first three hours of the game is rather worrying too, as well as the lack of any attempt to convince anyone about the validity of your case (why should anyone convince you then?).  Combine this with no pressure voting and updating and you're pretty much a horrible liability to town, even if you think that the latter half of D1 is pure fluff (which is not, since votes were thrown around and bandwagons were formed).  Hopefully this will change during D2 after flips.

[Kiva-la]

Real life comes before internet mafia. And if you could please link to my posts you're referring to? I'd rather let them speak for themselves; not that you aren't a fabulous public speaker, I'm sure.

[Ouja]

Hello, hullo.

Talk. Talk talk. Apparently everyone but me knows who Shoe is. I don't think I'll care! But I can say that I'm not fond of the train on Shoe because the reasons are just incredibly flimsy. One of the worst Day 1 Trains I've seen, in my opinion.

Not impressed with Gamzee disappearing. Not sure what to make of it either way.

Sad to see my preferred targets won't go.

Disappointed with Razeluxe and StuffMan! The former because he refuses to read the latest happenings and thinks nothing should've happened to change his vote, and then leaves it to people of indeterminate alignment to convince him otherwise... not even pretending to scumhunt is incredibly lazy. Why sign up for a game if you won't play.

The latter because he's done nothing all day but focus solely singularly on a wordplay trick to pursue me and has spent minimal attention to any of the other cases, with some pretense of being concerned over others... but not really doing much either way. Would definitely like to see him take off the tunnel vision goggles and start looking around.

Various shades of inactive on other people, lolwut remains for the people who DO post (I'm looking at you, Steven Stone, and the medieval guy whose name slips my memory every time) and just general apathy by now with how the game moves. Really guys.

Anyway, I'm sure as heck not going to let a Shoe train happen with as flimsy as the reasons on him are right now, so I'll be content to hop aboard the Gamzee train. The disappearance at an unconvenient time reeks of "hiding", and how everyone's just kept on attacking Shoe could be construed as a way to take attention off Gamzee and on Shoe.

Or just plain hate for the roleplay. I don't know. I've never felt Shoe was really that insulting, and it was pretty obvious roleplay.

##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: Gamzee

There you have it.

[Decade]

With this little time left I do not think that any other wagons will take off.  While Miss Moriya was very benevolent to allows us to lynch without a majority, a majority lynch would be better for analysis in the future.

The wagon on Miss Shoe is still....very bad.  The only reasons I've seen are "she's abrasive," "she attacked Steven" and "because I felt like it."  None of these things make for a compelling case.  So far I have been satisfied with her scumhunting.  I do not blame her for using her own wagon because it has to be one of the worst things I have ever seen in Mafia.

I....I don't like the case on Mr. Makara much more.  I think both the wagons are likely on town, but there is not much time left and the wagon on Miss Shoe is far worse than this one.  This one at least has one good point: that is, that he suddenly vanished.

##Unvote
##Vote Gamzee Makara

I will make another post with more thoughts if I can type it up in time.  I want to get this out as quickly as I can.

Ninjas, I'll address them later if I have time.

[Suwako Moriya]

Gamzee Makara is at L-1!

35 minutes remain!

[Halloween Alice]

And this is why I hate the idea that because you have two trains you have to stay with those two trains.  There's definately been a common theme that neither of these cases are very strong, but no one wants to move on to something else.

Well, ok, there's Raze, who doesn't seem interested in making his vote useful.  Either by making a real push for who he's voting for, or by moving and making his stance known on the two targets for today.  Either way, today seems to be decided, so I'm not likely to be sticking around for day's end.  Hope you guys are right.

[Sasword]

I didn't sign up for this 'vacation' to read all day long.  Nor did I sign up to have to wade through this crap; Arguments about fluff are, themselves, fluff. As for the rest of what you all have to say, I'll get back to that tomorrow, when I have more time. Until then, let me give you all a helping hand:

- Stone Mason isn't any more or less likely to be scum just because a wagon was built on him, that's WIFOM.

- There is at least one scum from the Shoe train, and more than likely one from the Stone Mason train as well.

- Don't just look at what is being said--it is scum's MO to lie and deceive you into an early grave--look beyond that.

- Bad play (newb play) is a null tell, pure and simple. Anybody who tries to argue otherwise is just smokescreening, and likely scum, since seriously what could ever convince you that bad play is a tell in either direction.

There is more, but I am short on time. Until then, folks.

There are only tips, no pressuring nor any scumhunting to help town, nor any furthering of the case against me.  Smells more like a logic puzzle than a post.  I'm fine if you think the arguments between Shoe and Gamzee or whatsoever are fluff and stuff like that, but the votes are material, and the bandwagons are real.  Not participating in any of them this close to the deadline reeks of scum trying to distance himself from all responsibility.

[Suwako Moriya]

15 minutes remaining!

[Kiva-la]

Maybe I should clarify something here. My vote is where it is, because that is easily the scummiest thing I have seen so far. Everything else has been pretty easily defined as derp or worse, and I'm really not in the mood for the headache of a derpsandwich. I went through 3 pages, and only 3 because real life comes up, and I didn't see a single scumtell. All I saw was people getting a tad too gung-ho on bad play, and getting carried away with all that drama. I have purposefully been avoiding it because, hey, guess what? I have not seen a single strong case yet. Guess what else? It's Day 1. Strong cases aren't exactly prevalent, and all you people who think they are are just kidding yourselves. Sorry, but it's true. I believe both trains to be scum capitalizing on a Town/Town struggle.

I honestly believe Miyako to be the scummiest, because of the timing of the posts. If I had time to rake through every post, I'd be able to give you better cases on other people, but I can't. And I'm not apologizing for not dedicating my life to mafia. As such, my vote stays, and for the time being I maintain she is the scummiest person I've seen. Also, trying to paint me as scum for not having the time to read through 6 pages of game  is bad play. Not scummy, per se (though probably), but definitely not winning you the sportsmanship award.

[Suwako Moriya]

5 minutes remaining!

[Suwako Moriya]

Time is up!

[Suwako Moriya]

So that Hojo kid disappeared without a trace again? Man, he has no luck, does he? Too bad for him. Too bad for you lot, too, since I knew he was innocent.
 
Now, as for this Makara fellow here...gimme a moment.
 
Oh, and try not to look, this won't be for the squeamish.
 
...
 
...
 
...huh.
 
Looks like you lot aren't useless after all. Found a snake charm on one of his horns there. Guess I shouldn't be too surprised, no one who talks like that could be on the level. Well done, regardless.
 
Oh, and don't bother going after the body. I'm sure Aya and her friends will take care of it for us.
 
Satoshi Hojo, Town Rebound Striker, was modkilled due to pulling out!
Gamzee Makara, Scum Swiss Army Knife, was deadline lynched!
 
It is now Night 1, so all the good little players should go to bed and make no noise. People with night actions, please send them in.
 
Final Day 1 Vote Chart
 
Shoe (4): Sailor Moon, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, John McClane, Gamzee Makara, Sandor Clegane, Steven Stone, John McClane
Stone Mason (0): Stuff Man, John McClane, Miyako Miyamura, John McClane
Sailor Moon (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shoe, Gamzee Makara
Shannon (0): Roddy MacStew
Miyako Miyamura (1): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen
Steven Stone (0): Shoe, Saki Marimi
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (0): Saki Marimi
Saki Marimi (1): Stuff Man, Roddy MacStew
Gamzee Makara (7): Roddy MacStew, Sailor Moon, Miyako Miyamura, Stone Mason, Shoe, Saki Marimi, Shannon
Sandor Clegane (0): Shannon, Shoe
 
No vote cast: Satoshi Hojo, Steven Stone

Oh, and I should add that nights will be no more than 24 hours. They might be less, though!

[Sasword]

Since I have the ability to talk about the game during night, and since I am about to be gone for most of D2 anyway (be around only in the middle), I feel that I should give my thoughts first.

I think Shannon is the person I want to lynch today.  Steven and McCain are pretty much okay for now because they dropped their votes against Shoe when she was 5-4 against Gamzee, which does not seem like what scum would do.  Sandor is pretty much neutral for me now despite his silly votes.  Stone landed a crucial vote to push Gamzee up to 4 votes, despite his lack of reasoning, which makes me want to give another chance to see what he would do today.  Roddy is pretty much obvtown for now for being the first on the bandwagon, but his cheerleading of many other axillary cases strikes me a little bit.  Sailor Moon's vote feels the most out of place because of the schizophrenia ("Gamzee brings up good points but I think he's scum," without telling us the good points) .  Shoe is almost definitely town for now due to obvious reasons.

What bothers me most are those who defend Gamzee without putting too much effort into it (e.g scum wants to defend their fellow mates but not too obviously).  Shannon prodded me and Stone (strangely ignoring Sailor Moon, whose vote was further back), but did not follow up at all on my responses.   Shannon's can be found here.  Furthermore, Shannon defends Shoe and says that her scumhunting is satisfactory and trying her best, but never explains why, which strikes me as cheerleading to gain town credit.  She votes Sandor at a critical moment where Gamzee and Shoe had 4 and 5 votes respectively, seemingly as some sort of distraction to town, when Mason did the same thing against Gamzee, but for no reason at all.  This strikes me as very weird, as if she did not want to gain any suspicion if Gamzee was lynched on D1.  Thus, I think Shannon should be pressured today.

[Suwako Moriya]

All right! I think we're all ready to resume this little party. All of us except one, anyway. Someone's been playing with my handheld...what the hell is this garbage? "@[=g3,8d]\&fbb=-q]/hk%fg" ? What a cruddy final message.

Roddy MacStew, Town Chess Game, was killed overnight!

Day 2 has begun!

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal

12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch. You have 72 hours. Happy hunting!

[Suwako Moriya]

And now, a brief word from our sponsor.

I'd like to take this time to re-emphasize the "Don't be lame" rule. I have had multiple players so far complained about, and I really do not want to have to spend half the game running around telling people to lighten up their attitudes. Please, let's all use a bit of common courtesy when interacting with each other as people. If you think a post might cause issues, either reword it, or mark it clearly as RP/flavor if that's how your character behaves. Err on the side of caution; it is better for everyone's blood pressure.

Thanks. We now rejoin our regularly scheduled game, already in progress.

[Ryuki]

I'll try to respond to this as succinctly as possible, because I don't have much time and I won't be around much for the next 16 hours or so.

Your first lolwut reasoning. Obviously the implication is you think that I'm scum for attacking Steven. But further, the implication is that my walls of text are scummy. You don't out right say this though, which is interesting. Either way, it's the first attempt in a long series of events to discredit me.

And Boom, subtle shift. It's no longer about the WoTs or speculation, it's now "How far will Shoe go with an early D1 case on Steven Stone, because early D1 cases have to have AIRTIGHT LOGIC >=[!" Then you basically attack me for some roleplay reasons, and try to draw reasoning for a town read out of me. That's actually a mild scumtell, since towntells are the kind of thing scum want to know so as to emulate them. But, mild, anyway.

"because early D1 cases have to have AIRTIGHT LOGIC >=[!", you said it yourself. I put my vote on you originally because it was slightly better than a random vote, and I kept seeing more and more reason to stick with it. Also, I never attacked you for roleplay reasons in that second post, I don't know what you're seeing. :| I was calling out the fact that you expressed some judgments of certain people but never elaborated.

Oh manz, it's another shift. Bear in mind this is around 12ish hours before deadline. The time for weak reasoning has passed. Your second paragraph is blatantly false, as I believe my "guns" turned to those jumping on my case later in the bandwagon for weak reasons.

Uh. For one, that was 17 1/2 hours before deadline, look at Suwako's post two posts later. And two, you were still focused on Gamzee at that point.

Looks like I was interpreting a lot of your actions incorrectly, and yeah it's pretty obvious you're town at this point.  But i'll be damned if you didn't have me convinced, at least more than anyone else. :| I was pretty sure that of you and Gamzee one was scum and one was town, with you winning out in my mind.

One thing i'd like to add before dropping this. A lot of times you said things like "Link me to EVERY allegation you level against me, rather, to every point where I've committed it.", and "bla bla bla unsubstantiated bullshit, where's the proof", which I really felt were stalling tactics/lack of better arguments. Since I mainly made inferences based on your readily apparent actions (like espousing Gamzee then voting Sandor, or starting off with Stone then switching to Gamzee, etc.) Please, you gotta figure out a better way to stand up against scrutiny, because it made me think you were being pretty damn dodgy. The getting really pissed and losing your cool once the bandwagon got bigger didn't help matters much either.


Eh, so much for succinctness. Ah well. I don't have anything worthwhile to contribute at this point aside from parroting Miyako, and a pressure vote. At least until I get the opportunity to look over things from D1 later.

##Vote: Shannon
 

[Skull]

The best looking case on this good ol' Mason is here.

The reason for pressuring Gamzee at the time was because I agreed with Shoe's logic in the case against him, as well as the other posts 1 2 3 that indicated Gamzee could be in the wrong. In short, I waz swayed by the tide. Furthermore, I still hadn't put mah vote down, and since the 3rd vote had gotten in before I started, putting pressure was really all I could do. When I saw the third vote, I thought, 'Well, another vote won't hurt, a lot more are needed for a lynch. When/ If he talks more, I'll get a better read and change if need be, because I can sorta see his side too. I don't like the way it feels there's a carrot in front of my face, so I need to do some analyzing for myself." Unfortunately, didn't have time but, to do a once over. It looks like the ingress of votes on Gamzee led to an egress on him talking.

I am guilty on sticking to the shadows though, but only for short bits. Really only enough time to play catch-up. Though I did refrain from participating at one point because Gamzee still hadn't resurfaced, and I took a leaf from Shoe's book by deciding to fish a little for responses. I felt it wasn't patient enough with that ploy to catch any big fish. By the time I got back, the five minute bell had already rang, and before I could get anything out, I hit preview, and it was bedtime.

##Vote: McClane Are you satisfied with my defense?

[Halloween Alice]

Not especially happy with your reasoning, since a pressure vote with no reasoning is meaningless, and it makes it hard for other people to be sure about you.  After all, no point in finding scum if no one listens to you because they think you're scum.  That's said, it's hard to argue with being one of the pivotal votes that lynched scum, so shouldn't be any issue if you actually provide commentary on people before they're dead.

On that note, I noticed you voted for me, but didn't mention anything of why you think I'm scum.  Got any reasons for that?

[Sasword]

Just dropping in quickly to ##Vote: Shannon for reasons above.

[Ouja]

Personally a little wary of Evangeline, who pushed so hard for a Shoe lynch which we now know was an alternative to a Gamzee lynch. I think we should take a hard look at those who tried to actively discredit the Gamzee case and/or push the Shoe case the hardest. I feel scum might've just fallen on its arse, because the 'disappear and say nothing more' strategy reeks of poor stratagem and bad decision-making on the scum-side of the game.

I... reluctantly agree that Shannon needs to explain herself a little. Where I understand that we both voted on a case we weren't completely on-board with, I am a bit loathe to accept her reasoning entirely. Voting solely for majority seems a little weird, especially if you believe both to be town. Perhaps it's just how games are played here.

I stand by my opinion that those on Shoe need a good, hard looking at. Unfortunately, the end result are Sandor, John, Steven and Evangeline. Two of those have little presence, Evangeline was suddenly convinced either Gamzee or Shoe were scum and John hasn't reviewed the previous day, but I feel considerably more comfortable with him.

Mostly because he didn't push for Shoe's train so hard, which would've made more sense if he were scum. Giving him the pass for now.

That leaves Steven, Sandor and Evangeline, of which Steven I want to ascribe having picked up the derpball and rolling with it. That leaves Sandor with his weak reasoning, and I'd like him to explain himself and iterate why the other cases arising were unappealing to him and why he focused solely on Shoe.

##VOTE: Sandor

I'd also like to hear Steven Stone's thoughts of the previous day and everything up to here so we can at least take him into consideration. Honestly all he is to me right now is a bunch of newbie mistakes, and I want to see that change into "more analysis", or at least "more participation". We won't lynch you for being stupid at this stage, that's reserved for D1.

[Ouja]

Right, the above also leaves Evangeline, but her bad reason stuck out like a sore thumb and, honestly, at this point I feel pressuring her on it won't return a lot of results. I would still like to query why Evangeline was so sure Shoe was scum, on D1, so we have a better picture of her vote reasons.

[Suwako Moriya]

Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (2): Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Miyako Miyamura
John McClane (1): Stone Mason
Sandor Clegane (1): Saki Marimi

12 players still alive means 7 votes will lynch. There are about 58 hours left in the day.

Shoe has informed me that they have having internet connection issues. It is unknown when they will be back online, but they are trying their best to do so.

[DiEnd]

Sailor Moon's vote feels the most out of place because of the schizophrenia ("Gamzee brings up good points but I think he's scum," without telling us the good points) .

Hmm? I gave my reasoning by the end of that sentence. Here's a link to said post for convenience. Or is it just that you think my points sucked? Last I checked, bandwagoning and exaggerating something to make it look scummy were nice reasons for a D1 case ):

Mason, on the other hand, actually does look kinda schizophrenic, as he spends his post defending himself and then... votes McClane out of nowhere without reasoning? Just because you don't like his case on you doesn't make him scum; that's OMGUS territory. Hell, you even said it was the best of the cases on you.

Miyako's case on Shannon looks nice, I'd like to see what Shannon has to say about it. There's already two votes on her, so I'll look elsewhere for the moment.

Shoe is obvtown, and Steven is derp. Sandor is lurky, I'd like to see more from him so I could get a better read. Need to reread again and analyze the Shoe wagoners and such. Then I'll come back with a vote. K, reread. Evangeline doesn't look very scummy to me. Mason kind of didn't exist the later half of the day, although, well, he did help the Gamzee lynch... hmm. Raz is ha ha, old chap! active lurking and telling people to give him a case, but RL does happen, so if he participates more today then fine.

Oh, and one thing I noticed in my reread; Steven, it's against mafia rules to edit your posts. Don't do it again. If you need to edit, make a new post with the corrections stated; EWBOP, Edit By Way of Posting. Oh, err, I think I've been spelling it wrong all along... ahh ;_;

In conclusion, I'm looking at Sandor/Mason/Shannon as possible scum right now. Two of those already have pressure votes on them.

##Vote:Mason, please explain your spontaneous vote on McClane.

[Suwako Moriya]

A quick checkof the edit history of that post shows nothing that isn't harmless. I do appreciate you pointing it out, however. In general, folks, please do not edit your posts. This isn't directed just at Steven, it goes for everyone.

[Ryuki]

Right, the above also leaves Evangeline, but her bad reason stuck out like a sore thumb and, honestly, at this point I feel pressuring her on it won't return a lot of results. I would still like to query why Evangeline was so sure Shoe was scum, on D1, so we have a better picture of her vote reasons.

It wasn't so much that I was 'so sure' Shoe was scum, as I think it's the nature of D1 that you can't be so sure of anything. But at the same time, that doesn't mean you should just putz around D1 without doing much of anything. The initial vote I put on her was a combination of 'Eh, that's kinda a dumb reason to attack Steven I think' combined with 'It'd be in character to get annoyed at her for that' ("I felt like it."). The person that I saw giving off the most scumtells from that point on was Shoe, so I never saw reason to change my vote. Which turned out to be in all likelihood a bunch of null-tells and some amount of confirmation bias. ;;

With the two biggest bandwagons turning into Shoe vs Gamzee, I figured they were either both town or scum/town. (I don't fathom what scum/scum would be trying to accomplish acting as the two of them did.) I was banking on scum/town, and put my chips in with Shoe because I felt her tells were the less likely of the two to be null tells. She also talked a whole lot more, so there was more material to find fault with than with Gamzee.

I'll admit, the disappearing act by Gamzee near the end cast some doubt my way, but I didn't see my case as so flimsy that i'd turn 180 over something that could be explained as coincidence. Plus she was resorting to pedantic/dodgey countermeasures to my arguments near the end there ("Link me to EVERY accusation you've EVER made against me and the proof" and "You're wrong, but I won't tell/show you how you're wrong until you tell me blablabla"),  which further made me think I made the right choice.

[Halloween Alice]

Alright, having cleared my head a bit, just gonna say congrats and eat a bit of crow.  Also, while I have seen two scum get trained on Day 1 before, it was pretty damn flukey, and basically involved the scum having no say in who got trained.  While we've got proof that the scum were perfectly happy hopping onto an early Shoe train and staying there.  So, yeah, Shoe's clean.

Moving on, of the folks on Shoe's train, given it was a train of opportunity, I'm more inclined to see Evangeline's place on it as a null tell, while Sandor looks worse now.  Now that Day 2's come around, I'd really like to see some content coming from him, but...  as odd as it sounds, the timing of his vote really doesn't lend itself to a save Gamzee vote since it came right before the sudden rush.

My suspicions of Mason are still around, just...  I'm having a hard time reconciling his lack of explaination with being the one who evened things up between Gamzee and Shoe.

Instead, I'll focus on Raze and Stuff Man.  They both picked their obsessions and stuck with them, come hell or high water, giving very little information on anyone else, specifically, on either of the two main cases.  Stuff Man seems more likely to produce something, anything, so I'll stick a pressure vote on Raze to encourage him to play.

##Vote: Raze

[Ouja]

I find Evangeline's reasoning acceptable. Of course I'll keep a wary eye on her, but the thought process is explicable and I can see how she arrived at her conclusion, even if I still stand by that Shoe seemed pretty harmless to me and the case on her was bogus.

That leaves me with Sandor, who I urge everyone to submit more pressure on if he maintains his pattern of behaviour where he is tight-lipped and hardly visible. I don't want to believe LAL is going to secure our way to victory, but if Gamzee is any indication, we should not give lurkers free passes. Doesn't mean the remaining scum are definitely lurkers, but it does mean they would use the lurk as a strategy.

Steven, Steven Steven, can you grace us with your presence and talk about the previous day. Who do you think is scum. I recall Gamzee attacked Shoe after she attacked you on your roleguessing excuse, I want enough out of you to determine if Gamzee was pulling chainsaw defence or attempting to get a mislynch on Shoe. (given how rubbish I think the case on Shoe was/is I am not entirely convinced you're town, after some consideration! Derp only goes so far and I definitely don't feel it's a free pass!)

[Kiva-la]

...hmm. Interesting. Seems now that Shoe's silent and Gamzee is gone, everyone's a lot more sane (and easier to read.) I could get used to this. What I can't get used to is that Silver Medal; gonna have to keep my eye on that...

Day 1 is still a cluster of headaches, however, and only gotten harder to read the more I try, but I honestly find myself agreeing with Miyako the most right now. Shannon's posts have been... bad. No, that's not quite the right word... More like... Messy. And at first, that seemed accidental. But there's just so many words, while she's saying so little. It's a bunch of useless padding, filled with cheerleading, smokescreens, fluff to make her posts look better, etc.

Not sure what you're trying to do there, John. Earlier today you say that meaningless pressure votes are bad, then you place one on me? I mean, first, it'd take more than 1 vote to really put any pressure on, and that instead seems like you're trying to get something started, because secondly, I did actually talk about the two main cases.

Agreeing with others that Mason here should provide more information on his vote for John.

Oh, and just as a heads-up, gonna be busy most of the day for the next few days, but will try to be around when I can. Hopefully will be able to contribute more; sorry about the lack of time for D1, as well.