Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 4F (Read 251545 times)

Serela · « **Reply #480 on:** July 06, 2010, 01:42:39 AM »

Quote from: Bananamatic on July 06, 2010, 01:33:27 AM

Isn't 27F boss about piercing attacks?

no
it's about Patch taking 0 damage from all it's attacks, didn't you hear him :V

I actually stopped my second run of the game while exploring 27F so I haven't fought that. My first run basically ended after beating the final boss (I did a FEW V2s). My third, maybe I'll beat the whole thing for once? Then again I want to use people just because I like them, this run, and not for actual usefulness...

I'll probably get sorted out. Back to work on alphes image pack! About half of them have their _Stand.png done (these usually take less then a minute to convert into), and 9 Team+Minoriko have their LFace done, which takes a little more effort to do it well. Wriggle looks bad around the edges because her image was weird, everyone else is great. 18F+Mari won't have replacement art and Minoriko will only have a replacement LFace; and I'm not planning on doing SFaces because :effort:.

I'll probably do the rest of the _Stands before I sleep, and then upload it because I'm going out of town tommorow.

Serela · « **Reply #481 on:** July 06, 2010, 03:52:52 AM »

Welp. I did all of them. As in, all the LFaces and Stands.

That took quite awhile ;_;

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RWY9NIQN

Just copy this over the CharaGraph folder in your thLaby Special Disk, and next time it starts, boom.

Orin has some transparency issues; it would have taken a whole lot of effort to make that not happen, and she isn't a very good character anyway. Wriggle's picture was screwy too, I make her LFace less grainy, but at least hardly anyone uses her either. Minoriko has no _Stand, I'm sorry, the source image was filled with other stuff (in a fake-SWR game) and the LFace was all I could do. 18F and Mari are not included in this as I couldn't find any matching artwork for them.

Besides, 18F is creepy enough without a better picture.

Fishin · « **Reply #482 on:** July 06, 2010, 04:02:57 AM »

Quote from: Bananamatic on July 06, 2010, 01:15:46 AM

Why does he have so much HP compared to my chars ;_;(spoilers obviously)

I'm guessing he's too lazy to pick level up bonuses and just clicks HP every time. I just beat 26f boss, and while my characters were generally doing more damage (Marisa with fully boosted Master Spark did about 2m compared to his 1.4m or something), they all had less hp. The weird thing was that my Komachi had around 120k hp (and I obviously put most of her bonuses into hp), while his had about 170k.

Also weird was that he had

Spoiler:

already, who I'm pretty sure is a much tougher boss fight than 26f.

Serela · « **Reply #483 on:** July 06, 2010, 04:04:40 AM »

Quote from: Fishin on July 06, 2010, 04:02:57 AM

Also weird was that he had
Spoiler:
Maribel
already, who I'm pretty sure is a much tougher boss fight than 26f.

Actually, it shouldn't be. Final Boss ver.2 has a recommended level of 230 or 220 or something. I had it beaten way before I got to 26F.

Garlyle · « **Reply #484 on:** July 06, 2010, 06:34:44 AM »

Quote

and she isn't a very good character anyway.

Hey, hey. I use Orin a lot when just travelling randomly. Blazing Wheel does some startlingly high damage coming from a speedster.

Esoterica · « **Reply #485 on:** July 06, 2010, 06:51:49 AM »

Quote from: Garlyle on July 06, 2010, 06:34:44 AM

Hey, hey. I use Orin a lot when just travelling randomly. Blazing Wheel does some startlingly high damage coming from a speedster.

As of 18F I've still been using her for bosses, even.

...so unrelated, have we just decided to say fuck it when it comes to spoilers now or something? :V

MysTeariousYukari · « **Reply #486 on:** July 06, 2010, 07:06:33 AM »

Ok, after my months-long rage at labyrinth, I start it up, again. God-Mode Lag kicks in, I'm angry again but fight on to Meiling. I Master Spark her(I carried stuff over from the previous run of course) game crashes and makes me cry ;-; Why is it lagging!? I only ONCE dealt with this before, and the comp had been on for several hours alreadt during the summer that time so that doesn't count worth crud, so why the lagging NOW for cry out loud! ;-;

Edit: Most spells will cause lag for me actually, save for concentration >.> What good will that do me, when everything else lags the game like crazy. It's WORSE then playing PCB on Slow Mode!(Thats what, turning the fps to 30 at bosses??)

Garlyle · « **Reply #487 on:** July 06, 2010, 07:25:03 AM »

Quote from: Esoterica on July 06, 2010, 06:51:49 AM

...so unrelated, have we just decided to say fuck it when it comes to spoilers now or something? :V

This is a good point.
Honestly, the only spoilers I'm really concerned about throwing at someone are the characters who actually have plot positions (

Spoiler:

)

Also, along with going through and doublechecking/simplifying the spell formulas, I've begun to wonder if I shouldn't rewrite the descriptions for characters in the Wiki. The reason I'm saying this here? You guys could probably contribute too. I want it to cover the characters as they function at all points throughout the game and plus disk, and I haven't actually beaten everything yet, so...

Pesco · « **Reply #488 on:** July 06, 2010, 07:39:29 AM »

I can't see where people have or haven't used spoiler tags when I'm phone posting. Typing out the tags screw with my predictive text too. Up to you guys, I don't really care.

Playing with spell animation off on Special Disk doesn't appear to change how long a fight goes for me but should deal with your lag problems.

9-squad took down 18F without breaking much of a sweat. Wriggle was getting hit for 3k SGS when her HP was 15k. Mystia's level at 143 and Wriggle at 136. Everyone had skill levels of 50+ to HP and their defences. Levelup bonuses went to affinities.

Fishin · « **Reply #489 on:** July 06, 2010, 08:36:13 AM »

Quote

Actually, it shouldn't be. Final Boss ver.2 has a recommended level of 230 or 220 or something. I had it beaten way before I got to 26F.

Huh, you were right, I was able to win pretty easily. I tried her at a lower level and lost before I even got to her final phase, so I guess I assumed there would be a bigger difficulty jump.

Quote from: Garlyle on July 06, 2010, 07:25:03 AM

This is a good point.
Honestly, the only spoilers I'm really concerned about throwing at someone are the characters who actually have plot positions (
Spoiler:
Yukari for where she's actually the boss because she's lead up to be the final boss, Rinnosuke for SURPRISE SAVIOR OF GENSOKYO, and especially Maribel and Renko which come out of nearly nowhere and don't appear until the end. Even when I was seeing them on the JP wiki using the terribad autotranslations I was like "There is -no- way that that's Maribel and Renko. It can't be" and then it was
)

pretty much this as far as spoilers go. "<character> is in the game" isn't a big surprise most of the time.

Quote

Also, along with going through and doublechecking/simplifying the spell formulas, I've begun to wonder if I shouldn't rewrite the descriptions for characters in the Wiki. The reason I'm saying this here? You guys could probably contribute too. I want it to cover the characters as they function at all points throughout the game and plus disk, and I haven't actually beaten everything yet, so...

Yeah, I've been doing some of this already (not a huge fan of the some of the current descriptions), but of course anyone else is free to work on it too.

Bananamatic · « **Reply #490 on:** July 06, 2010, 01:43:32 PM »

eh
final boss V2
lost twice thanks to that head with 1m defence

third time prepared kaguya, 3 hits and the head died
final form, froggy, master spark, dead

Ha ha, old chap! game balance.

EDIT: 26F down
it was almost hilariously easy, she is incapable of doing any damage except for sweeping your attackers, charging her ultimate and pulling a party wipe

Garlyle · « **Reply #491 on:** July 07, 2010, 10:05:27 AM »

Okay, so uh

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Labyrinth_of_Touhou:_Characters_1

I put up new summaries for the first five characters so far. Feel free to discuss it here, but I'd prefer it if you could leave any comments underneath of the actual summary. It would be nice to have one uniform discussion going on about the subject, where everyone can see it.
Rather than having people going in and randomly rewriting it, I think it would be nice to consolidate multiple people's understanding of the characters into one and get a very thurough coverage that can -stay-.

Serela · « **Reply #492 on:** July 07, 2010, 01:13:39 PM »

Reimu/Marisa/Sakuya look good.

With Patch, the end part where you say picking specific elements for best effect; well, actually, Silent Selene or Royal Flare is pretty much always the better choice for bosses. Silent Selene factoring in only /4th MND should be fixed in the formula, as well; it still says /2.

Princess Undine is almost equal to Selene for bosses weak to CLD, except for Selene's /4th mnd formula, and it's much better Delay which is great. Undine is the better choice for the two or three(!) early-game bosses weak to CLD, because of MP reasons. And I suppose against enemies weak against CLD because :multitarget:, but often you won't care enough about randoms to know if they're weak to CLD anyway.

Djinn Gust is 9 x (MAG - 2/MND) on something weak to wnd, which means whether it's better is situational due to MND. In Plus-Disk, where Patch's MAG should be massively overpowering, anything weak to WND might actually take really heavy damage to this; I know 27F, which takes forever to explore, has WND weak enemies. Someone should see if this can be useful in that case.

Satellite Himawari has a normal formula, just a little weaker. It might actually be a better choice in many situations against NTR-weak stuff. With 16Fs high mnd though, Selene is probably still a better choice against her, especially because better delay and Patchy's snailness; thought I should throw that out there, since that's the most notable NTR-weak enemy.

You should probably just stick to Selene for bosses, Flare for FIR-weak/multiple-bosses fights/randoms. But if you have specific knowledge on enemy weaknesses, or they're resistant to FIR, then you might get a little use out of the other spells for randoms. They're still mostly only good for conserving MP early game, though.

About Remi, I just thought it should be mentioned that with her great SPD, 50% delay on her attack, and ability to tank+damage, her damage output is a good bit better then the numbers suggest.

MysTeariousYukari · « **Reply #493 on:** July 07, 2010, 01:52:42 PM »

Quote from: NeoSerela on July 07, 2010, 01:13:39 PM

About Remi, I just thought it should be mentioned that with her great SPD, 50% delay on her attack, and ability to tank+damage, her damage output is a good bit better then the numbers suggest.

^ This. Remi's greatest flaw in the end is Spear itselfs formu-*check touhou wiki* wait what!? That is a step up from what I remember, I thought it was 1.4 not 1.6 and 1.8 not 2.0, so if the current one is from Special Disk, then ^_^

Bananamatic · « **Reply #494 on:** July 07, 2010, 01:59:32 PM »

So Spear was also buffed? Remi started sucking for me at F7.

Serela · « **Reply #495 on:** July 07, 2010, 02:13:56 PM »

I don't think it's been buffed, I thought that was it's formula the whole time. The wiki history doesn't say it's been changed recently. Just saying, due to the frequency of her attacks compared to other characters, not needing to switch out, high SP recovery with low attack cost; her damage is better then what the raw damage from her attack deals. Frequency and ease of use means you get to attack a lot more then other characters, and she also has the self-buff, wheras Iku is the only attack stat buffer for most of the game.

Speaking of Iku, she's probably an underrated character. Kaggy, Ran, and Sanae are the only ones who can buff OTHER people's atk/mag if I remember right, two of which only do so by a small amount; not counting plus-disk characters. PAR can be avoided by resistance boosting items, Meiling, Sanae (who can also buff), and Rumia (who was either buffed, or possibly sucks less then we thought; either way, she might be more useful in an Iku setting). Iku has much better survivablity, speed, and attack viability then Sanae does. Speaking of such, what's the delay on Iku's atk/mag buff? Wiki doesn't list it. And last I remember, wiki's numbers for Iku's buff were also lower then the buff actually was.

Bananamatic · « **Reply #496 on:** July 07, 2010, 02:30:22 PM »

reached 27F
liliths are nice, but I'm starting to feel the level gap required already
so up to 29F the level increases required aren't too steep, but 30F suddenly requires 450-600?

MysTeariousYukari · « **Reply #497 on:** July 07, 2010, 02:32:39 PM »

Quote from: Bananamatic on July 07, 2010, 01:59:32 PM

So Spear was also buffed? Remi started sucking for me at F7.

Banana, you do put ~~most~~all level bonuses in ATK for Remi right? Cause, for what I have seen, THAT is a make-or-break with some characters. Keeps character who seem weak, strong, for longer then you might have thought possible, like Remi all the way to the end of Plus Disk

I only put the bonus into a characters main offensive stat, and Remi was only falling behind at 30F, where she couldn't keep up with 15Fs single-target move or 26Fs single-target move in pure DPS. Remi was about as fast as 15F, maybe faster, and Remi was dealing like 900k or sumthing buffed, 15F and 26F were dealing 1.5 and 2.3(?) Million respectivly, both Un-buffed.

Bananamatic · « **Reply #498 on:** July 07, 2010, 02:39:21 PM »

18F's slightly improved Spear copy is also kinda weak tbh and I put everything into atk

my party is usually like this

tank/dedicated switcher-reimu/9F/16F-reimu/9F/16F-16F/switching in attackers

makes cooldown time irrelevant, making remi suck even more
all you need for buffs are the 2 50% def/mnd ones and 9F, possibly 18F buff for an opening shot

Serela · « **Reply #499 on:** July 07, 2010, 02:56:45 PM »

You should experiment using

Spoiler:

, her party buff is a slightly weaker version of 18F's in exchange for halving party gauge (which isn't that bad, esp, since all your defenses are buffed up from it). The damage is really insignificant unless you're Patchy.

Also, Mystearica, that's how I used my levelup bonuses too. But then Baity comes around with a more defensive setup and just does so much better then everyone else... I mean, he beat the final boss at Reimu lv120 right? And with the way damage works in this game, it makes sense. On my Special-Disk play I think I'll go a bit more defensive.

Err, well, I'm at my grandma's house already (yay unsecured wireless connections), but the fact that I still have internet, and may be getting my own laptop while here, is discouraging me from starting :x It runs a little slow on mom's laptop, too...

Bananamatic · « **Reply #500 on:** July 07, 2010, 05:24:32 PM »

27F clear

brb, grindan for a month

what's 28 and 29F like anyways?

Ghaleon · « **Reply #501 on:** July 07, 2010, 06:25:25 PM »

Remi's spear has always been 1.6(2.0- /2def). And as I've been saying this whole time, she's damn good >=P. I actually put my levels into her def/mnd myself, and her attack is STILL good for its delay and her survivability. It might not do as much damage as 15f's nuke or 8f's nukes or whatever, but she does it faster, and she doesn't need to go home crying for mommy after a couple hits. If I'm in a fight where I win with only 1 or 2 characters alive, Remi WILL be one of them, despite being out for more of the fight than most people.

On my next playthru though I'm going to dump all her levels into attack for once (despite never really doing this for anybody except 15f girl and Marisa) just to see how much dps she can do if treated like a strict nuker.

I don't know if I already said this or not too, but for anybody who cares, the optimum amount of dps done when using both remi and Chen with their attacks and their self buff is 1 buff - 5 attacks - 1 buff, repeat. It's worth noting that 1 buff - 4 attacks is very close. You may want to go with that if you can afford the sp if you want to keep your def/mnd part of the buff high.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #502 on:** July 07, 2010, 06:30:24 PM »

Quote from: Bananamatic on July 07, 2010, 05:24:32 PM

27F clear

brb, grindan for a month

what's 28 and 29F like anyways?

Pretty standard stuff, no bosses, new trash, nothing really nasty aside from yellow kings IIRC.
30F would be really fun if it didn't require such a high level for most of the trash. It's like 20F where every trash encounter is a super-trash of sorts. Some of them are so easy you can beat them right when you reach the floor (1 or 2), and one is so stupid hard that you can have your first two party members dead (even if it's china and remi) before even chen gets to move...at level 400.

Sorry for double post.. I never got a "new post has been made as you were making your post" thing.

Bananamatic · « **Reply #503 on:** July 07, 2010, 06:37:00 PM »

yeah, 30F is V3s

why does 28 give such low exp though? it's not even worth fighting thanks to the amount of super fast crap and way too high HP
my guess is that 29f is exactly the same, then the game suddenly throws stuff 300 levels higher than me

seriously, what's the point and why so much grinding
why can't the game just cap your level at 350 and lower the difficulty

should I just rush F30 and try to beat something there? reimu is lv276 atm

Ghaleon · « **Reply #504 on:** July 07, 2010, 06:54:43 PM »

Quote from: Bananamatic on July 07, 2010, 06:37:00 PM

yeah, 30F is V3s

why does 28 give such low exp though? it's not even worth fighting thanks to the amount of super fast crap and way too high HP
my guess is that 29f is exactly the same, then the game suddenly throws stuff 300 levels higher than me

seriously, what's the point and why so much grinding
why can't the game just cap your level at 350 and lower the difficulty

should I just rush F30 and try to beat something there? reimu is lv276 atm

Probably not.

Honestly if I were you I'd just quit at that point. Start a NG+ now or something if you like. I don't know if special disk makes that grind easier or better. But last time I played, it just wasn't worth it. The first boss in 30f was pretty fun though.

if you really want to try some of the trash
8f girl v3 is a joke, 12f trio is fairly easy too actually...But I think that was more to do with my defensive playstyle, they might wreck your face if you spent your stuff on atk/mag instead.
18f boss v3 is extremely easy, AND has the best drop.
9f boss is the last of the easier ones.

8f is by far the easiest of them all though, with 18f being 2nd probably.

the china and chen aren't easy at all, chen especially so.

Bananamatic · « **Reply #505 on:** July 07, 2010, 07:05:07 PM »

are items all that important at this point? the skill point chests are laughable and most items are useless duplicates

rush to 30F, then grind at 27F I guess?

Ghaleon · « **Reply #506 on:** July 07, 2010, 07:13:15 PM »

Quote from: Bananamatic on July 07, 2010, 07:05:07 PM

are items all that important at this point? the skill point chests are laughable and most items are useless duplicates

rush to 30F, then grind at 27F I guess?

Treasure chest items? I don't remember. I'm pretty sure 30F trash items were the only worthwhile ones though. Even then alot of those suck too.

Bananamatic · « **Reply #507 on:** July 07, 2010, 07:15:16 PM »

29F still gives 200k exp at most
yeah, so much for the "easier grinding". I have no idea what kind of a retarded developer would make a such a massive level gap, then completely ignoring it in the further patches.

Esoterica · « **Reply #508 on:** July 07, 2010, 07:33:37 PM »

Quote from: NeoSerela on July 07, 2010, 02:13:56 PM

And last I remember, wiki's numbers for Iku's buff were also lower then the buff actually was.

They are; it was a 72% buff last I checked (odd number, but whatever).

Bananamatic · « **Reply #509 on:** July 07, 2010, 07:41:44 PM »

Guess I'll just hack in Uber Cirno and grind on F30 :V