Labyrinth of Touhou 4F

[Esoterica]

Sometimes, I need to take a break from Team Unappreciated and remind myself just why the high-tier characters are high-tier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwkzOm5afdc

And you thought I had an easy time with Bloody Papa before? (Seriously now, I'm beginning to really doubt if the recommended level for that fight should really be 160+. Sure, you'd like to be that high if you want to survive his attacks...but who said anything about letting him attack?)

Remind me why I don't have 16F in my team right now.

She always starts with Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, which is a powerful SPI attack with 100% DTH rate, so you'll need your starting 4 characters to have lots of DTH resistance.

And lots of MND/SPI resist.  Even if DTH doesn't kick in, it's extremely likely anyone without good mind is going to die.

[Serela]

She always starts with Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, which is a powerful SPI attack with 100% DTH rate, so you'll need your starting 4 characters to have lots of DTH resistance.

200% DTH rate, actually :V

[Ghaleon]

Here you go.

I'm pretty darn sure that they cranked up the dth%s of enemies.

[Rikter]

I know what it does and that she always opens with it it just happened to me much later in the fight when I thought I had a chance to win.

Also i've already seen that list I ment character wise did anyone become good?

[Serela]

Also i've already seen that list I ment character wise did anyone become good?

Nitori is now the best attacker in the game, hands down. Otherwise everyone's the same, although we realized Rumia, Wriggle, and to a point Reisen, are actually nice. Especially Wriggle.

[Esoterica]

I know what it does and that she always opens with it it just happened to me much later in the fight when I thought I had a chance to win.

Also i've already seen that list I ment character wise did anyone become good?

Gotta keep those defense buffs up.  If you don't have Mokou yet she's extremely useful for the fight thanks to her durability and DTH resistance, as well as Yuyuko's weakness to fire.  Suika's another valuable character for the fight, and should be less of a pain to recruit than Mokou.

No character changes were made from 2.06 to 3.01 that I'm aware of.

EDIT: If you were talking 2.04 to 2.06 like Serela mentioned, then yeah, Nitori is a must-use character for bosses.  Megawatt Linear Gun is pretty much an 88 SP Master Spark now.  That one spell is the only thing that changed though.

[Pesco]

Mystia's speed levels should be cheaper than her MAG or DEF/MND levels, right? Her leveling costs for speed is 240 from the figures Cheat Engine gives me and that's double of what it costs for her defenses. It might be my save file being weird but that shouldn't be the case.

[Bananamatic]

Lv550 Reimu=lasted 11 minutes vs Winner

possible y/n

[Krimmydoodle]

11 minutes with your attackers healthy and kicking ass, 11 minutes of Tenshi taking 0 damage, or 11 minutes of you sitting at the attack menu and staring at the clock?

[Bananamatic]

ehh...I can put up a decent fight(I managed to do around 60% HP damage to him or so), but the worst part are single target attacks - Sword of Light is 200k fixed damage or so, Zantetsuken 260k, Magic Arrow 80-110k...the rest is either row or reduced to an acceptable amount.
Most chars have 160-190k HP. Go figure :V

It's only a matter of time before he decides to be a dick, takes out 16F and Reimu and I have no way to heal or buff defence.

Also Scimitar loves to 1 hit Nitori by DTH on the first few turns.

solution: more HP, more exoskeletons, more levels

I should note again that this guy was at a higher level than me and he didn't even get to look at the attack menu.

[Garlyle]

Also i've already seen that list I ment character wise did anyone become good?

As stated, the only solid change was something actually implemented back in 2.05 - Nitori's Megawatt Linear Cannon went from 5 x ATK to 8 x ATK and in the process went from "good but not quite awesome" to "standing on par with KOi3S, Starbow Break, minimum-SP Master Spark, etc" level power.

However, some attempts to really use a number of formerly underutilised characters have revealed some... unexpected results.  Namely that everyone's pretty badass afterall.

[Bananamatic]

Standing on par? Outdamages Shiki's Judgment and Starbow Break by a lot...I'd say best single target attack in the game.

[Pesco]

Mystia solo against Chen and Meiling. Level 17 is NOT overleveled enough! But otherwise, trash wiping is loleasy.

[Parallaxal]

Hmm...I think whenever I'm getting bored of Plus Disk grinding with Team Unappreciated, I might start up another team just for fun. I've still a few scattered goals I want to do: I still want to try using Yuyuko and Youmu, as they're among the very last few characters I've never used for a main team playthrough. I also really do want to try out some of the quirkier stat builds, just to see what's feasible. I'm be aiming for ATK-based Komachi, ATK-based Sakuya, MAG-based Eirin, and MAG-based 18F (yes, that means using those other two characters that work with this). Also, I've just got to try MND-based Iku, since I'm pretty much just using her for Thundercloud Strickleback and the DEF-down debuffs at this point. It's too good not to try: Iku's MND growth is only 1 point lower than Tenshi's, but Iku's got a better leveling rate and notably better HP growth.

[Bananamatic]

Man, you never get bored of that game.

I'm so lazy that I'll just rather grind 30F all day long :V

[Serela]

MAG-based 18F

Why? There's actually absolutely no advantage to this over doing ATK-based. 18F's skills are all either ATK-based or composite; on composite, whether the numbers are from ATK or MAG don't matter, but simply what they add up to, so having the higher stat (ATK) boosted is always better. Now, if there was a MAG attack, or composites were calculated differently, it'd be worth trying, but with the way it is, it's just... well, the exact same as ATK-based 18F, but with less damage.

If there's specific characters you want to use, I could make a party for 'em. I think I have more fun theorizing parties then playing the game tbh :V

[Parallaxal]

Did I type 18F? Oh snap, I did. I meant 16F.

[RainfallYoshi]

Kind of like Team 9, I've pondered other specialty theme teams such as game-based ones (Team EoSD, Team IN, etc.) or ones based on other things like Team Eintei, Team Moriya, or others.

Or if you really want to be crazy, Yuyuko/Youmu super team.

[Serela]

Based on what Parallaxal said, I'm thinking...

1.Youmu
2.Yuyuko
3.Komachi
4.Sakuya
5.Eirin
6.16F
7.I bet you want dat Wriggle, otherwise whoever
8.Iku
9.Cirno (See how if her buffed Icicle Fall is any good for damage
10.-Tank-
11.-Healer-
12.Have you tried Kanako yet? Otherwise, whoever you feel like.

10/11 can be disobeyed if you want more challenge.

[Ghaleon]

I'm currently playing with Kanako. on 15f. So far she still has too many sp issues to really give a solid review on. Seems like her sp just doesn't grow as fast as the other "caster" type characters. her low-delay attack is actually pretty underwhelming because of its low pierce potential. Hunting ritual is awsome for trash purposes. VoWG is great..but yeah, I can only cast it once then I'm oom. Suiga on the other hand is probably the only good damaging cld nuke in the game..It really flattened those foe bosses.

I'm pumping up her mag for testing purposes, and her defenses are still pretty darn good. If you build her defensively though, I rekon her only use would be cld nuking bosses. hunting ritual would probably only be just another yuugi storm spell (only with no element), and her low delay nuke would almost definately be feeble as %@%#.. I don't know if VoWG would still be powerful or not. Regardless, it probably wouldn't really seem like it's worth the sp cost.

It should be mentioned though that given sp being a non-issue. Kanako is probably the only character in the game who has a powerful physical AND magical  multi-target nuke... Though that isn't as good as a defense ignore nuke >=P

[Parallaxal]

If you just want to play normally, and not have to overlevel for everything, I'd recommend going for a team of 12, or at least close to it.

Team SA is a perfect fit for 12, if you include all playable characters and bosses that appear. You have Yuugi, Suika, and Nitori for physical offense, Utsuho, Marisa, and Patchy for magic, Reimu for covering most of your healing needs with Sanae filling in the rest, plus a few more random buffers/damage dealers. No dedicated tank, per se, but Yuugi can take most physical hits, and maybe you can raise Suika for MND or something, I don't know.

Team PoFV has exactly 11, not bad. You do get Komachi as a sort-of tank, but Reimu's your only healer, so maybe ATK-based Komachi will work better. Team IaMP also has 11 members, and is a more balanced party anyway, with Meiling as your tank and Remilia as backup. It's just a bit too...typical, what with everyone being often-used characters and all. Suika's the biggest oddball there.

Here's another fun idea: Team NICE HAT!

You can't just wear a hat...you have to wear an interesting or iconic hat!

Aya (fuzzball hat!)
Shikieiki (awesome judgment hat!)
Eirin (red cross hat!)
Iku (frilly oarfish hat!)
Keine (pagoda hat!)
Marisa (classic witch's hat!)
Meiling (dragon star hat!)
Minoriko (grape cluster hat!)
Mystia (winged hat!)
Suwako (come on...do I have to explain?)
Tenshi (peaches hat!)
Yuyuko (dreamcast hat!)

Or mix-and-match with whoever has your favorite hat...

It's not a bad team, as you've got both Tenshi and Meiling for tanking and Minoriko for healing (which is pretty much all you need, although Eirin's got backup heals). You've also got offensive and speed buffs, a fast paralyzer, and DEF piercing in addition to some decent physical and magical attackers.

@ NeoSerela: I've already used Kanako on my 3rd playthrough, and tried her out from the beginning of the game all the way through to the start of the Plus Disk. She's pretty decent; I'd rate her about the same as Alice, except stronger but slower for bosses. Suiga is an excellent nuke for boss fights, with a great formula and being CLD, which as mentioned earlier is very rare. She has great type coverage, too, with VoWG and a non-elemental attack. Her HP could use some work, but her defenses aren't bad.

As for the next team I'm planning, I'll probably be using Ran and Chen because, you know, 16F formula and all. And Tenshi, too, since it's been too long since I've last used her (my very 1st playthrough!). Good call on Cirno, though; I have used her for a full playthrough, but that was on a party with no offensive buffers. Can Iku turn her into a half-way decent attacker? Who knows?

[Bananamatic]

ZUNhats only :V

[Serela]

Totally forgot about Ran/Chen *facedesks*

Youmu, Yuyuko, Komachi, Sakuya, Eirin, 16F, Chen, Iku, Cirno, Tenshi, Ran and then -Healerperson-

Actually, hardly even worth listing them now since -Healer- is the only one you don't specifically want :derp:

[Esoterica]

I still want to try using Yuyuko and Youmu, as they're among the very last few characters I've never used for a main team playthrough.

What.

Both characters are pretty good, though they both suffer from SP consumption issues.  I'm not sure if Youmu's ever left my team for even one floor since I got her; occasionally for grinding or for a certain boss, but I've pretty much always had her on board.  Yuyuko doesn't hit very hard outside of Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, but that spell plus her great defensive stats make her extremely useful.

You'll have a hell of a time with both of them early on though, Yuyuko is terrible on early floors...mostly.  Fun fact: Early bosses don't have DTH resistance :derp:

[trancehime]

AND HERE I WAS WONDERING WHY NOBODY BELIEVED ME WHEN I SAID NITORI WAS GOOD

Sweet Christ, guys, I know what I'm talking about 

[Serela]

AND HERE I WAS WONDERING WHY NOBODY BELIEVED ME WHEN I SAID NITORI WAS GOOD

she sucks until you use her in a 2.06+ version  ;P

[Bananamatic]

AND HERE I WAS WONDERING WHY NOBODY BELIEVED ME WHEN I SAID NITORI WAS GOOD

Sweet Christ, guys, I know what I'm talking about 

NITORI IS GOD TIER until she gets one shotted

also I hope level 600 will be enough for winner
grinding is pretty fast tbh

[trancehime]

she sucks until you use her in a 2.06+ version  ;P

Obviously nobody paid attention to the x8.0 multiplier when I first said it.

Because it was definitely 2.06 when I was advocating her usage :3

I don't know man I just feel gypped

[Esoterica]

Obviously nobody paid attention to the x8.0 multiplier when I first said it.

Because it was definitely 2.06 when I was advocating her usage :3

I don't know man I just feel gypped

I feel for ya, I started using 2.06 when I got to Mokou and was like "holy crap nitori's good now", then I come here and everyone's still playing 2.04 because 2.06 didn't have an english patch :c

[Rikter]

Yeah I guess a level 60 something Marisa isn't enough to kill Mokou with post Resurection. And yes I was using buffs.