[東方意地奴 ~ Touhou Ijiyatsu] - Monarchly Moron (Ver. 1.00f)

[Rikter]

I finally got around and tested the stage. Other than the fact it was running at 30 FPS due to my computer and I still found it hard the only thing I want to complain about is the thud sound from Zengar's options.

[Drake]

[14:19] <Drake> lol thud sound
[14:19] <Drake> Yeah we're working on that
[14:23] <Drake> You can change the processing rate in config.exe If you need to.
[14:23] <Drake> you can also change difficulty if you're willing to click a few times and type a number
[14:26] * ImperishableRikter (~akrutaa@oh-71-50-195-157.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit
[14:28] <Drake> okay then, don't listen

[Rikter]

I was in the middle of IN extra and I had to close it and IRC then and there. Regardless i'll look at that config.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Playing the test stage for fun.

Are those sound effects final? Because the sound that plays when an enemy dies is really, really, annoying, and the boom from Zengar's star shot gets kind of distracting.

And uh, you might want to give large IE its own sprite instead of  just resizing it. It'll look better.

[Drake]

None of the graphics and stuff is final. Most of it is placeholder right now.

[Naut]

0.01d is out

Looking for opinions on the mechanical portion of the stage, like the point system, Idiot Energy, power, Embodiment summoning, etc. As I said in the programming thread, the sounds and graphics are mostly placeholder for now. Sorry about the bvvv star sound and lack of a spellcard background for the horribly small boss fight. Truth be told, I forgot it.

Difficulties are not accurate reflections of actual stage one difficulty of Ijiyatsu, merely a good idea of how things handle under certain amounts of cpu stress (for example, on lunatic, the screen frequently is filled with bullets, I'm looking to see how most computers handle that amount of stress. Survey says: poorly for < 2 cores).

Uh, my concern right now is the really poor design of the level (too random and shitty, I think). I'm hoping to work together with somebody (plural?) to design better levels at some point, possibly through Ventrillo/whatever or some chat program that allows drawing images as we chat, since IRC is painful when you're trying to convey an image to somebody else, especially when they might not know how to code in Danmakufu.

Another concern is getting those debug numbers in the bottom left turned into images, I'm tired of them taking up half the active dodging screen. I compensated a bit in 0.01d, but I'd really rather them as imaged numbers somewhere else on the screen.

Idiot Energy is still really awkward (despite the changes to it in 0.01d), and the Embodiment summon still feels wrong to me. Looking for suggestions on how to fix/revamp this, since it's really starting to bother me now.

Other issues escape me at the moment, but I'm sure somebody will find something worth talking about.

[Helepolis]

The burning aura needs to be called different. Once the boss dies, the animation halts which makes it look extremely weird. This is why I kind of questioned when you said you are not calling it inside the @initialize

About the boss appearance also. Burning aura + red magic circle appear when the dialogue is over. It is like this:
- Dialogue end -> burning aura + magic circle appear
- Concentration effect ( red bubble + leafs )
- Begin combat.

I'll look into the appearance of the embodient and probably come up with something to suggest, I think Drake was mentioning something about a double call on the concentration effect which made it look weird.

[Rikter]

0.01d is out
Another concern is getting those debug numbers in the bottom left turned into images, I'm tired of them taking up half the active dodging screen. I compensated a bit in 0.01d, but I'd really rather them as imaged numbers somewhere else on the screen.

Those numbers annoyed me in the first version. Prehaps you could have them be transparent when you move over/near it. Like SA's Graze Meter.

[Naut]

Here's an incomplete changelog of 0.01c -> 0.01d. I didn't actually keep track of anything so I'm probably forgetting stuff.

• Added a shitty boss to the end of the stage, which features Drake's dialogue function and Helepolis' sexy effects. Both effects were squandered, however, due to shitty stage design and lack of a real boss fight. But they're there!
• Also heavily edited most stage enemies and the order they spawn. Added a walling enemy. I think it's kinda cool, at least. Still only one Embodiment, though you don't collect enough IE during the stage to spawn two anyway.
• Split difficulties in to four files. This was done only for ease of testing, the files will be merged in to one MockStage.txt again when I go back to code it (delete three of them, rename the fourth without the number at the endwwwwww). People had a hard time editing one character in a text file for difficulties, so whatever.
• Changed Zengar's hitbox code, now is less blurry and has a shitty animation when focused
• Also changed Zengar's power level differences. There should be less of a jump between 1 and 2 power now, same with 2 -> 3 and 3 -> 4.
• Edited the debug values in the bottom left, goes semi-transparent when you are near them and the point multiplier flashes when you are auto-collecting items (grazing or above the POC). IE is not auto-collected.
• Added comments to the CommonData system for IE spawning, among other things.
• IE can now be absorbed from the IE ball, making it easier to time controlled Embodiment spawns. Embodiment clear all enemies and bullets on the screen upon death, so this system is very useful and will need heavy testing. Currently affects playability of the "wall" portion of the stage, specifically on lunatic.
• Small edits to the IE code that didn't involve IE absorbtion, like limiting it's y coordinates so the ball doesn't fly off the stage. Still looks like shit, though.
• All items attract to the player at a faster rate (0.16p/f^2 -> 0.25p/f^2).
• All items now make a really annoying sound when you collect them.

That's all I remember right now, I'm sure there were other small changes but whatever. Some of these changes were bigger than they seem.

[Nobu]

Alright, played through the stage five or six times, and here are my initial impressions. I know some of these things i'm commenting on are probably because of being teststage, but i'll just give you all my thoughts.

PC and sprite related:
-Not really liking Fortuna Star's secondary spread function, it doesn't feel very effective at doing anything. (Like a less effective version of SA ReimuB or something)
- The familiars when at 2.00 power obscure part of the sprite, which looks kinda weird because you can't see the arms doing the superman thing.
- @ Skye: I think the ripple going across the front of the hat is actually overdoing it a bit. I think it might look better if only the motion of the side of the hat was kept, but the ripple going across the hair was removed.

Stage/General:

-Those walls really are pretty cool. Afraid to try Lunatic.
- Music continues when game is paused? Is there a way to fix this?
- Embodiment explodes too slowly :V
- Embodiment exploding animation seems too big and excessive


Boss and Spellcard related:

- The Spell Card Attack looks really busy and cluttered, to where it half looks like a bunch of words just randomly moving around the screen.
- The rotating spell circles around the boss are pretty bold and distracting, a bit too big, (maybe will look better with a bg) and also rotates really fast.  It seems kinda silly to put words on the spell circle if it's going so fast no one will be able to read it.
-IE Before/During/After boss: I think the IE should either autocollect to the player or boss when the boss appears (Actually, autocollecting to the boss might fit better). And after the boss, the IE that was taken is either released and autocollected, or just released onto the stage again. (Wasn't paying attention to see if this already happens though)



That's my initial impression. Also, What do you think of replacing the big IE orb with some kind of partially transparent or hazy mote of light.

(Everything else I didn't comment on was fucking amazing btw, esp. the sapping out of IE from the big orb when you get close to it)

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

I'm pretty sure the "can't pause music" thing is built into Danmakufu. I don't think it's something that can be fixed. It's why Nuclear Cheese was looking into a replacement ...

[Suikama]

I'm pretty sure the "can't pause music" thing is built into Danmakufu. I don't think it's something that can be fixed. It's why Nuclear Cheese was looking into a replacement ...

Correct

[Naut]

I know some of these things i'm commenting on are probably because of being teststage, but i'll just give you all my thoughts.

This is what we want, don't hold back.

-Not really liking Fortuna Star's secondary spread function, it doesn't feel very effective at doing anything. (Like a less effective version of SA ReimuB or something)

As of right now the spread shots do 0.1^damage/_frame. I'd give you some perspective on how little that is, but let's just say that it's absolutely negligable, the fragment stars might as well be doing 0 damage. They are mainly an effect right now. I guess you'd like this changed? Kinda offset balancing a bit considering I'd want to lower the damage of the knives and main stars to compensate, but the effects of the little star damage may only ever be noticable on stages with asstorms of enemies everywhere. Personally, I'd like to keep it as an effect, but make it explode all over, dealing small damage to anything they hit (say, enough to kill one small wave fairy), then make a small explosion when the star collides with something (so explosions everywhere. Think Sanae B, except with ordinance everywhere and won't look like orbular shit). I think it would look pretty badass.

- The familiars when at 2.00 power obscure part of the sprite, which looks kinda weird because you can't see the arms doing the superman thing.

Noted, I'll fix it.

- Music continues when game is paused? Is there a way to fix this?

God I wish...

- Embodiment explodes too slowly :V
- Embodiment exploding animation seems too big and excessive

Working title of the Embodiment is UsuallyDead. :V

Nah, we'll speed up the explosion for Embodiments. The current burst is supposed to be used for the end of a boss battle, I just put it there for shits and giggles, so it's a bit too extravagant. We'll fix that soon, if we can make a better exploding animation sometime in the near future.

- The Spell Card Attack looks really busy and cluttered, to where it half looks like a bunch of words just randomly moving around the screen.

Helepolis has been trying to make it look as close as possible to ZUN's effect, and what he has completed is very close. I do agree though, it does seem really cluttered. Plus I am against completely copying ZUN's effects anyway... Why not make our own better?

- The rotating spell circles around the boss are pretty bold and distracting, a bit too big, (maybe will look better with a bg) and also rotates really fast.  It seems kinda silly to put words on the spell circle if it's going so fast no one will be able to read it.

Yeah I agree it's too fast, but I don't mind the size. Probably due to lack of background, so my bad for presenting the effect so negatively.

-IE Before/During/After boss: I think the IE should either autocollect to the player or boss when the boss appears (Actually, autocollecting to the boss might fit better). And after the boss, the IE that was taken is either released and autocollected, or just released onto the stage again. (Wasn't paying attention to see if this already happens though)

I like this idea. Hope everybody else does :<

That's my initial impression. Also, What do you think of replacing the big IE orb with some kind of partially transparent or hazy mote of light.

I think it would look really cool (especially if I could throw in some 3d effects too... Hoohooho!), but the main concern is preserving processing power. The current IE takes up more than I want it to at the moment, and such a complex effect might drag cpu down further. However, I am thinking of ways to make this happen, as well as make it not look like ass. Very important that it doesn't look like ass. So uh, let it be known that I am trying to work out a way to do this!

(Everything else I didn't comment on was fucking amazing btw, esp. the sapping out of IE from the big orb when you get close to it)

Actually, this is a cool effect I'd like to try and pull off in conjunction with your mist IE idea. Gives me ghostbusters vibes.




Only one big comment so far... Sniff :<

[Helepolis]

I cannot let you people get away insulting our spell circles just like that !!!!!!! PREPARE TO --- no actually, just to show you people comparisations with the spellcard circles and animation. Because obviously people never payed attention to them in the original Touhou games. Also there is a good reason why it might look off. We are aware of it as well and tweaking will occur for sure. But before that just to teach you some people about graphical details.


Originally, the code was based on Uwabami breakers, as you can notice the location of the hexagon circles. The major differences I can spot with the eye is:

• The thickness of the outer circles ( especially the white foggy one ). Also the text being inside the outer circle, have you ever payed attention to the original one? I bet 99.99% not. ( And if you take a look at UFO screen, ZUN even uses a far weird style for it. As if the text is stretching ).
• The 'Spell card attack' text looks more shiny and glowy and opaque compared to original. This is does disturb me as well.
• Location of the hexagon circle needs to be UFO style, aka more to the right
• Texture repeating inside the circle needs to be adjusted, I already did this but not updated Naut/Drake

We will do our best to prepare, please watch warmly.


Here is a two shot view of UFO ( which we generally are basing it on. Though beware! Continue reading.)


And here is a two shot view of the spellcircle being used for Ijiyatsu


And finally, here is a two shot view from Uwabami breakers.

[Serp]

Alright, I think I've played through the stage enough times to get my initial thoughts down:

I think we ought to have a more precise counter to let the player know how close they are to summoning an Embodiment.  Experienced players will probably be able to eyeball the size of the floating orb pretty easily, but even so, the number should be available at a glance.

Keeping the Embodiment alive long enough to time out the pattern is a hassle.  You either have to stop shooting, or else make sure to stay at the opposite side of the screen so you're not hitting it with stray shots.  I expect that this will be even tougher for the spread shot types.  The Embodiment already increases difficulty by firing more bullets, but if you add the fact that you can hardly shoot enemies while it's up, it ends up being more frustrating than challenging.  Rather than adjusting the bullet patterns, I'd suggest making Embodiments, especially high-level ones, have much more health.  That way, the player probably won't shoot the Embodiment down unless he's intentionally lining up his shots to do so, and he can still take down the stage enemies.

Also, enemies coming from the bottom of the screen make me rage.  Most lower-level players will hug the bottom on their first run through a stage, and the shot patterns just before that point tend to herd you to the corners.  You could probably keep the current enemy spawning position, but maybe try to contrive things so that the player is herded into the middle of the screen just beforehand, with some shot clusters aimed at the corners...  or something.  This is just more of a design note for any bottom-spawning enemies in general in the main game.

And yeah, doing something with the IE when the boss appears sounds good.  Having it be sucked into the boss orb-by-orb just like it gets sucked into the player would be a nice touch.  This should probably go for the midboss as well, unless it's not given back upon defeat, in which case we'd have to decide whether we want the player to be in a rush to summon Embodiments before the midboss shows up.

[Nobu]

Hele, I noticed the spell circles playing through Touhou now that I knew what I was looking for. But basically along the same lines as Naut said, why not try making it better? ;3 (And no, i'm not trying to marginalize your accomplishment in making the spellcircle because it looks almost identical to ZUNs, gj)


Also, more storyline brainstorming in meido last night. This basically gives a rough outline of the plot *now with 100% more analogy!*

Code: [Select]

01[00:55] <Nobu> I'm going through Gpop's bio, and I was thinking about the role of the idiot pantheon and that sorta of meta-physical weird thing that we're not fully explaining
03[00:56] * Choja (~Encyclope@adsl-75-32-30-120.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #Ijiatsu
[00:56] <Drake> it is weird
[00:56] <Drake> what do they do, anyways
01[00:56] <Nobu> So, we have three player characters, and the final boss is Theorin +2, right?
[00:56] <Choja> it is drake
[00:56] <Drake> +2?
01[00:57] <Nobu> +2 midbosses/imoutos, Mode and I
[00:57] <Drake> oh
01[00:57] <Nobu> So here's the deal. Zengar, Rou, and Ruro were the original deities of the Idiot Pantheon, and ruled over the other idiots in CPMC/whatever we'll call it
[00:58] <Drake> you mean gpop?
01[00:58] <Nobu> Well, I was thinking that, but part of Gpop's bio is that he became demoted before the events of Ijiyatsu
01[00:59] <Nobu> And Zengar and Ruro is the 'Deity Double Team', and I like that title too much to change it
[00:59] <Drake> Oh, you mean at gametime
01[00:59] <Nobu> Yes
[00:59] <Drake> DEITY DOUBLE!!!! ^_____^
01[01:00] <Nobu> So, Zengar, Rou, Ruro were the three deities, and got usurped by Theorin and crew, so they control the idiot energy.
01[01:01] <Nobu> And they're busy plotting somewhere and doing something big involving the IE, so all the PC pairs each have their own reasons to investigate
[01:01] <Drake> they all want IE?
[01:01] <Solid-Serpentarius> The IE must flow.
01[01:02] <Nobu> Basically. Think of it in Final fantasy 6 terms
01[01:02] <Nobu> The magic keeps the world intact, and no one controls the source
01[01:02] <Nobu> Theo-Kefka comes in and throws the magic statues out of alignment, and controls the power directly
[01:02] <Drake> ahh
01[01:03] <Nobu> The magic statues in this case being the former Deities
01[01:03] <Nobu> And Theo-Kefka is now in her tower of ruin gathering all the IE in the world to one point to do something big, and the PCs are going to stop it
[01:03] <Drake> they're still deities though?
01[01:04] <Nobu> Well, deities in title, but they're fallen deities because they're no longer the ones in control
[01:04] <Drake> IN THE NAME OF THE IDIOCY I WILL PUNISH YOU ^_____^
01[01:04] <Nobu> :V
01[01:04] <Nobu> I'm actually really liking this FF6 analogy, it makes it pretty easy to understand
[01:05] <Drake> and FF6 was awesome so yeah
01[01:05] <Nobu> Exactly
01[01:06] <Nobu> So essentially in in-game perspective, Nobu, Mode, and Theorin can be designated Deities in flavor, like in their titles or as part of spell cards


[Rikter]

Yay Final Fantasy 6.

[Moerin]

I am willing to support anything that makes me Kefka~

Ahem... Um... I mean, that sounds like a great idea, Imouto-chan~

Spoiler:

Well I am kinda trying to build a monument to non-existence, aren't I?

[Gpop]

Just telling you now, althought they consider Zengar's shottype "DOUBLE DEITY" or whatever, Ruro wasn't a deity at the time, nor a mod.

Otherwise I would still be considered a Deity. Ruro, Kanako, Purvis, and I would be considered the "former" Deities or something.

[Nobu]

Well, the exact details will have to be worked out, but the gist is that whatever three deities at the time were forcibly evicted from their spot. With the way the idiot pantheon works with the ever cycling positions, anyone in the Ijiyatsu world could have been a deity at one point in past. For some (like you Gpop), that's something relevant to mention since it is a major part of your backstory. For others, there might not be a reason to mention it.

So maybe Kanako and Gpop would be the former deity double team instead? :V

Also I should note that this is additional motivation that any and all of the PCs can take advantage of in the way they portray their dialog and whatnot. Solving the incident and beating Moerin does carry the incentive of potentially gaining Deityhood or power for oneself. (And little do the PCs know that beating Moerin doesn't solve the problem, and they have to seek out Slaves and finally the moderators to get to the bottom of everything.)

[Helepolis]

Hele, I noticed the spell circles playing through Touhou now that I knew what I was looking for. But basically along the same lines as Naut said, why not try making it better? ;3 (And no, i'm not trying to marginalize your accomplishment in making the spellcircle because it looks almost identical to ZUNs, gj)

Well I don't know how to make a more different spellcircle aside then changing it's animation style etc. But yea, we already replaced the graphic for the Border of Idiocy, so we just need to modify the graphics I guess.

[Nobu]

I like the spell circle right now, but what if you make it spin a bit slower? A slow paced spin closer to the speed of the cherry border in PCB maybe?

[Fujiwara no Mokou]

I can make it different. I can even make it bend as it opens up like in the original games, it comes out a star and sets as a circle.

Spoiler:

I already have it set up in my stage, too.

[Helepolis]

I like the spell circle right now, but what if you make it spin a bit slower? A slow paced spin closer to the speed of the cherry border in PCB maybe?

Isn't that a bit too slow then? Having dazzling fast paced effects and stuff makes it look full of energy and strong fever. We'll see. Changing speed is only changing a number in the script so it is not hard to do it. But somewhere we will have to make a choice with the programmers.

[Nobu]

Well the danmaku can make that effect too, right? :V the spell circle shouldn't take up too much of the spotlight, right?

But anyway, it's not that big of a concern yet. Once there are actual bosses with backgrounds and cards, the speed and opacity can be adjusted to what looks best, right?

[Helepolis]

Well the danmaku can make that effect too, right? :V the spell circle shouldn't take up too much of the spotlight, right?

But anyway, it's not that big of a concern yet. Once there are actual bosses with backgrounds and cards, the speed and opacity can be adjusted to what looks best, right?

Sure :3 the way it is now makes the spellcircle stand out too much. Can't blame you people, because you never payed attention to it during the Touhou games ( MoF+ ) so yea >:3

[Nobu]

Also, might as well announce this here too, but we need to get progress down on the dialog for stages 2 and 3. While we'd prefer characters to have involvement in their own dialog, at the same time we'd like to get Ijiyatsu done before Duke Nukem Forever comes out. Don't come crying to us if rough dialogs are posted in the future and you had no idea. :<

And nobody should take this personally because there is no one person to single out. It's ridiculously difficult to coordinate a bunch of people with a variety of different time zones and lives with various degrees of interest in the project. Honestly, if you don't really care too much about being involved(or would just prefer your dialog/character left up to someone else to portray), it'd be better to just let us know. The player list is pretty much set in stone, so you won't be replaced if you decide you're too busy or apathetic to get involved (or just wanted your portrayal to be a surprise or something).

[Gpop]

Is Tenshi still the stage 2 boss? Problem is that I'm having trouble getting both Tenshi and Baity in their the same time as me. Really, every time I come to the channel I'm hoping that we could work on the dialogue.

I dunno if I can work on it today, but I would do it right now if IRC wasn't so gay here.

EDIT: I'm talking about here at school. It's perfectly fine at home though.

[Nobu]

Well, one problem is that the dialog needs a little bit more planning and structure (at least a rough rough outline of where it's going to go), but getting all the people involved with a certain segment of dialog all in the chat at the same time to discuss, let alone do the dialog itself, is like trying to get the planets to align.

On most days from evening to early morning EST, at the very least Drake and I are in #Ijiatsu at irc.dejatoons.net (And Dragoshi is pretty much our Keine stand-in so you can relay messages through him :V). Even if actual dialog doesn't get done or not everyone is there, you can still toss around any ideas you might have about a certain segment of dialog, which would make things easier devising a rough flowchart/outline on where dialog could go.

[Dragoshi]

Do know, though, that I go to sleep at absolutely retarded times of day, so message relays probably won't happen in the afternoon. :V

or they might, but it'd prolly' be at like 5 in the afternoon or so, so.... yeah!