Town Mafia (Game Over)

[BT]

No IHNN, Validon's the closest there is to "the game thrower" just from the weight of his choices, practically deciding the last two lynches, but this is more of a universal loss, not one man's.

[BigBangMeteor]

I told you Affinity was scum.

I was confirmed town.

What the fucking fuck

You had no 100% reason to suspect Affinity as scum, nor did you really even give reasons based on scumhunting. You weren't wrong in this situation, but townies can be wrong about scumreads. You can't expect others to sheep everything you say just because you're confirmed town.

Basically town lost because of the dumb BT lynch on N4. Even if town had wanted to be lazy and just PoE, they could have still won had they lynched Dormio N4 and then Affinity tonight. Half the game even recognized the extreme likelihood that VM had inspected BT, for them to put BT at the top of their townie list.

[Validon98]

Okay, looking back, I was on Dormio's case mainly because I was not used to how he plays. That lack of effort seemed scummy, and despite everyone saying "that doesn't mean anything," I ignored that and kept thinking he was suspicious. Him posting a lot of stuff about the Steam Summer Sale didn't help matters. So my mistake was not knowing how to read Dormio properly, in other words "this semi-lack of effort thing is normal and doesn't paint him as either scum or town." Which of course is confusing as hell but then again this was the first time I've played in a game with Dormio.

And I was being slightly joking when I said I wasn't going to join the next game. Of course I am. Dan has a right to be frustrated at me somewhat but then again he could have been a little more clear as to why he wanted me to vote that way. ^^;

Cut: @BT: I also wasn't even freaking there for most of Night 5. I wasn't trying to throw the game at all. I didn't WANT to decide the last two lynches, but things got thrown my way and of course I made a mistake because "whoops, I don't get Dormio's meta."

Cut Again: Yeah, I admit the BT thing was dumb but I wasn't sure and I was wrong so argh sue me, I screwed up.

[Kilgamayan]

@ "town deserved to lose" sentiment.  No fuck that.  Town deserved to win.  Scum got destroyed.

2/3 of the scum team got destroyed. Town only deserves to win if 3/3 of the scum team gets destroyed.

Town arrogance and complacency was what let Affinity back in the game. Guess which individual player embodied both of those qualities the most? Here's a hint: it wasn't Validon.

[BigBangMeteor]

Oh, and the SB lynch was bad too. You can't say EVERYONE ELSE IS TOWN OFF META when you don't even know SB's meta as town and scum. For all you knew, he could have been extremely super townie off meta, more than anybody else. It was at least somewhat better than BT's since SB barely showed up to defend himself, but still.

[Kilgamayan]

If I ever play another game with SB I will refuse to vote him for any reason out of principle. 2/2 for being a dumb mislynch. ;_;

[ActionDan]

2/3 of the scum team got destroyed. Town only deserves to win if 3/3 of the scum team gets destroyed.

Town arrogance and complacency was what let Affinity back in the game. Guess which individual player embodied both of those qualities the most? Here's a hint: it wasn't Validon.

I'll give you the arrogance, but complacent I was not.  I had said back with 6 alive that the only two people left to vote were Dormio and Affinity.  The reasons I had for town reading the rest of everybody were both prescient and succinct. 

[ActionDan]

The thing is I wasn't sure and I didn't want to jump to conclusions. You could have, you know, backed it up with evidence. You just said "vote Affinity." >_>;

EDIT:

I'll just stay out of the next game, then.

Hard to believe you'd have listened to me.  I directly said on the last day "no claims plz".  And what did you do right after? Claim.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

if dormio was scum then the scumteam piled on shadoweh's wagon D1 1-2-3 at the start of the day, giving them little room to maneuver their votes*. on the other hand, affinity's vote was perfectly timed to push shadoweh over serela right as the serela wagon started to pop up. this was really easy to find on re-read and i was pretty sure affinity was scum but then again i'm inclined to think nobody in lylo re-read the game

*theoretically scum can all wagon together on purpose but they never do

[BT]

No I definitely thought his votes were well timed, his cases on SB too, that's what I meant by bad voting patterns. That was pretty much it though and I had to argue with stuff like "his content is town!affinity content".

Though yes it definitely should have been considered and I think I'm the only one who brought it up.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I had to argue with stuff like "his content is town!affinity content".

this shit is the worst and should be taken to mafiascum ftr

don't try to meta-read the content of players who have static posting styles. i mean you can but what's the point. also if you can't explain why a meta read is valid properly it's probably bad

[BigBangMeteor]

I noticed it, but ded.

Why was I killed btw?

[WHMZakeri]

Honestly, if there is any one person to blame, its not any of the people that made it into Kilo Lylo.
It's true that town fell into arrogance and complacency, but I think that after BT's lynch they had that wrapped up and were starting up their trains of thought and rereads and blah blah all over again. Night five saw it's fair share of arguing and discussion comparative to the fact that there were only 2 people that actually needed to decide.

[ActionDan]

re-read the game

I did.  not joking.  Even meta'd dormio

[Validon98]

There was also the fact I wasn't even really there Night 5. I would have definitely gotten more into the discussion... if it weren't for the fact real life got in the way. It got in the way for a lot of the game, actually. Next game hopefully I'll actually be around more. ^^;

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

i offered to sub in!!

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

i would've posted "btw guys validon was newbscum who didn't realize you're supposed to quickhammer" and voted affinity

[Validon98]

I don't see why you couldn't have been allowed to. I would have been fine with letting you take my place Night 5 due to my absence. ^^;

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

This sort of thing is what my time was going towards btw towards the end of the game.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Oh yeah here is my super boring personal QT because I didn't really post in it much since I was doing other stuff.

[BigBangMeteor]

Honestly, if there is any one person to blame, its not any of the people that made it into Kilo Lylo.
It's true that town fell into arrogance and complacency, but I think that after BT's lynch they had that wrapped up and were starting up their trains of thought and rereads and blah blah all over again. Night five saw it's fair share of arguing and discussion comparative to the fact that there were only 2 people that actually needed to decide.

That's just the point. After BT's lynch. Both of town's available mislynches were wasted due to the arrogance and complacency, and by the time people realized that the town was in danger of losing, the game was in effective D3 LYLO because everybody had been equally lazy the last two cycles, causing them to both be very unhelpful in assisting scumhunting.

[WHMZakeri]

That's just the point. After BT's lynch. Both of town's available mislynches were wasted due to the arrogance and complacency, and by the time people realized that the town was in danger of losing, the game was in effective D3 LYLO because everybody had been equally lazy the last two cycles, causing them to both be very unhelpful in assisting scumhunting.

That's pretty much exactly my point.
There's no reason to pin the blame on Dan or Validon for doing what they did during lylo, because they were both doing their best to salvage a lost game.

[ActionDan]

what game wasn't lost even after BT was lynched.

BT's lynch was a complete waste imo, but it didn't mean the game was over.

[ActionDan]

and 2ndly, during that lynch Validon went from possibly mislynch material to becoming super town.  (thanks 80% to me).  you could say we saved a lynch.

[Mitsuki]

I won!

I mean, sure, I lost. But I won my bet with Vhaltz guessing the last mafia!
Betting on mafia should become mainstream.

I really hope the next games I join don't end up becoming so inactive and lazy. I already experienced that in a game before this one, and I thought it was because I was playing with inexperienced players. I'd never have imagined that could happen with people who know what they are doing (>_<) Also, the game was solved.
Next time something like this happens, I think that could be solved by a simple reread. If you don't really feel like rereading the entire game at least check your posts and thoughts. (I gave an explanation on why I think this would be useful in the graveyard, if you want to check)

Also, I know I try to use meta and such and fail at it. I won't stop doing that though because I wouldn't learn that way. I'll learn by being wrong a thousand times and analizing my failures during my free time~
However, if someone really hates that I can stop. (?_o)7

Vhaltzotsuki's hydra QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/kRpXZ9XUkXGh
You'll realize that Vhaltz was the one who provided the most content to the posts, but who cares.

[SB]

lazy towns in charge of losing games

[SB]

If I ever play another game with SB I will refuse to vote him for any reason out of principle. 2/2 for being a dumb mislynch. ;_;

YOU REMEMBER

[Vhaltz]

Like I said in the graveyard I'm fine with the Affinity win. Dormio deserved to be lynched instead and should've been the one to be force-subbed due to repeated proclaimed lack of interest in the game. It really kills the game for me when people don't play to their wincon and I know I've been really pushy with my cases this game and people could be annoyed at me for that, but I still don't really get why I had to get AtE thrown at me for expecting something as basic as that. =/.

I really don't mean to be a jerk, but man, Dormio, your play this game was really bad compared to several other games you've played that I read. I'm not sure if I'll want to sign up if you do this again next game.

Other than that I find myself nodding to BBM's and Kilga's postgame thoughts so far. SB lynch was kinda meh but somewhat logical at the time due to circumstances and PoE so I don't really blame people for that. What did make me go what the fuck was the the BT lynch, which I thought was infinitely worse because I expected the game to get back on track with more rereads and posts and cases after PoE failed with SB flipping mafia goon. Instead N4 ended up with a lynch on a cop inno that everybody had gone into detail on the day before (like Conq said it's the ONLY read I never wavered on throughout the whole day, Validon doesn't count because I got his townread like halfway into the day).
The only reason that crossed my mind that BT might've been an okay lynch was if Shadoweh had explained her bus driver paranoia properly, but she didn't until she hit the graveyard, so I'm still on what happened then.

[ActionDan]

Dormio did fine?

?

?

BT lynch was a product of Shadoweh derping + Validon sheeping + Dormio lynching because what ever.

I think a no-lynch that day would actually have been best.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

"i'm happy my faction lost because player X is a fucking scrub" is defeatist and lame