Rewrite Mafia (Game Over - Town and Third Party Win)

[Validon98]

I just realized: Perhaps these random effects are what Shadoweh can't tell us about? That would explain the voteblock, although I'm not sure if it explains Serela's silence. It could just be unconnected, though.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount

Affinity(4): BigBangMeteor, Serela, Validon98, Raikaria
Bardiche(3): Shadoweh, BT, huh what
huh what(1) I have no name
Shadoweh(1): Bardiche
BigBangMeteor(1): Affinity
Not voting(0): Nobody
With 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to lynch.

You have ~59 hours remaining in the day.

[Validon98]

Votecount
Affinity(5): BigBangMeteor, Serela, Validon98, Raikaria

Excuse me? There's one more vote than there should be. I smell shenanigans. >.>

<Dormio> YOU SEE NOTHING.

[Serela]

##Unvote ##Vote IHNN

[Validon98]

...I give up trying to figure out what the hell's going on with Serela. It isn't a character or word cap. I think he can't do anything but unvote and vote at this point. Plus this vote seems just out of nowhere random. This is just a theory, but I think Serela isn't even in control of his own votes. I'm not sure, though. Once you're able to talk again, Serela, you better explain what the hell is going on, because you were able to talk at the beginning of D2 and now you can't.

[BT]

Serela, post one word that isn't related to votes if you are able to.

(This is how you solve problems. )

[BT]

I wouldn't worry about vote hijackers. So far he's been voting logically (first on Affinity, the guy he seemed to suspect). Maybe he can only vote, though.

[BT]

I also grant you permission to ##Vote BT (bold) if all you can do is vote, to prove the point.

[Bardiche]

Shadoweh is confirmed town!
No. She is not. Huh What is not confirmed to be Town-aligned, and until such a time that he flips and the mod says his role included the knowledge that Shadoweh is guaranteed to be a Town-aligned entity, we have no confirmation that she is Town. We don't even have confirmation that Huh What is not scum refuging in audacity. This naivety is baffling. If BT comes out and claims he has role-related knowledge that IHNN is Town, should we all blindly sheep to that? Of course not; Until BT flips there is no indication of whether he is speaking in Town's best interest.

Huh What has claimed ITP and is gloating over how he doesn't need to scum hunt. And you consider his word to be helpful to Town?


Shadoweh is still scum.
She hasn't made any cases today. She's gone OMGUS on me, voting me because I suspect her. This is a textbook example of it. There is no attempt to refute why am I wrong, only attacks because I don't do x or y. Her content D1 has been exceedingly lazy. There are no attempts to clear any chaff or work out any confusion, she's just sitting there dolefully. Huh Whatty even agrees she is useless.

This is scum-minded behaviour. Sitting back and doing nothing lets her slip under the radar while we engage in the MOTK tradition of lynching the talkative people. MOTK has a very low track record of actually lynching lurkers. Today she throws up a huge stormcloud where I am her vote, with no attempt to actually convince others. Instead, Huh What seems to do most of that work. She's satisfied doing absolutely garbage, tunnelling onto one thing and not even looking past that. How is my behaviour scum-minded? How am I advancing a scum agenda by loudly going after Shadoweh? There's no explanation for that, yet my explanations for why Shadoweh is scummy are handwaved because "ITP told us she's Town, and obviously ITP has the best for Town in mind".

Mind Huh Whatty even said something about figuring shit out "tomorrow", implying he'll be around by then. If he was sure he's going to suicide tonight, why the hell talk about shit you'll do tomorrow? Is this really the guy you want to believe and sheep to and not think any longer?


Bard isn't voting Huh Whatty which is his meta!11!1!

Actually most roles like this include clauses that kill the person if they even hint at having something, like PX's role in We Don't Talk About NotV Mafia.

Hold on, Shadoweh does this all the time.

it strikes me as weird when bard says this about shadoweh of all people since he's played with her in previous games where she was similarly useless. i mean yeah, her play isn't very pro-town, but do you really think it's impossible for town!shadoweh to be playing like this?

Yes, I think it's impossible Town Shadoweh would do absolutely nothing when her meta is to shove into everyone's faces how Townie she is and generally being somewhat involved in the discussion. She's hardly involved in any.

[Validon98]

Mind Huh Whatty even said something about figuring shit out "tomorrow", implying he'll be around by then. If he was sure he's going to suicide tonight, why the hell talk about shit you'll do tomorrow? Is this really the guy you want to believe and sheep to and not think any longer?

I think he meant real life tomorrow, not game tomorrow. >.>

[Bardiche]

Oh, but my main point still stands. He's not town-aligned, why are we trusting him?

Also, that quotation has nothing to do with the fact that I'm actually vanilla town. I mean I wouldn't want to die implying I'm anything other than vanilla town.

[Bardiche]

I still do sincerely think that the huh whatty situation will be resolved overnight, so voting him isn't useful to me at this juncture because I'd rather lynch the scums.

[Serela]

Bard can't see the Solution In Front of Him.

Huhwhatty will resolve himself overnight! ...if Shadoweh is alive.

If Shadoweh isn't alive, then we can wifom all the way to our graves over whether HW is being crazy gambit (I doubt it, because he's instalynch material if Shadoweh isn't dead and he isn't gone tomorrow, and this is a pretty odd thing to gambit about from first post in the game)

Bard, you can shove Shadoweh off a cliff tomorrow, let's just let the role shenanigans resolve themselves for us tonight first.

And, no, Shadoweh won't be confirmed town because obviously HW wants us to NOT lynch her right now. ('tho, seriously, when the day is about to end or something and you don't have to worry about her being lynched, please tell us whether she's srsly confirmed town or not to you)

Sheeping HW's case stuff on IHNN. I could repeat the reasons right here but I don't have anything to add, so :effort:.

Affinity isn't a town read and everyone's going to keep being hung over on him, seems pretty clear, so he's a distraction even if he's town and might even be scum, so I'm fine with lynching him too.

Only thing I have against Bard is weird reactions about role shens today. I mean, obviously HW can't "take care of himself" tonight if we lynch Shadoweh, unless he just immediately suicides on Kotarou's death. I had a town read on him d1. :T

Validon is :idon'teven:, and I should probably reread BBM, Affinity might even have a decent case on him; but I have work soon and I must scream. I mean leave. I have some flimsy silly reasons for thinking BBM is town but they're probably bad to actually put any weight into.

Anyway if you want HW to remove himself from the game (or more or less confirm himself as scum but I extremely doubt since this is a really ill-thought-out gambit if he's lying) then don't lynch Shadoweh kthnx. We can do it ~*~later~*~ if we really want her dead.

Bye!

[BT]

Mind Huh Whatty even said something about figuring shit out "tomorrow", implying he'll be around by then. If he was sure he's going to suicide tonight, why the hell talk about shit you'll do tomorrow? Is this really the guy you want to believe and sheep to and not think any longer?

I assume he meant real life tomorrow. Ohph.

You sound like a politician. huhwhat claimed ITP but consider this:

Additionally, Bard, there are two possibilities here.

a) Shadoweh is Kotarou. This means she's town.
b) Shadoweh is not Kotarou, and is scum. However, according to Prims's wincon, Kotarou exists in this game. If Shadoweh wasn't Kotarou, someone would have counterclaimed. For there to be no CC, Prims must be lying, and must therefore also be mafia. That means they'd be tying each other together an awful lot for two scumbuddies.

We CAN TELL huhwhat has role info on Kotarou because he started searching when the game started. Link that to the above.

To be frank, the huhwhat-Shadoweh interactions regarding the claim should also strengthen this assessment. There's too much evidence for you to honestly cite "she is scummy so this is a conspiracy" and be working in town's best interest.

I, for instance, have a good idea as to why I believe Shadoweh's claim should make her obvious town. I just laid it out for you. Your method of convincing us otherwise is "look at the ITP", which is shallow.

This becomes even harder to understand because your case isn't even that great. MAYBE if there was damning scummy behavior to account for, but notice that you're accusing Shadoweh of lacking scum suspects. It has been cited multiple times by multiple players that it's hard to get scumreads in this game. This applies doubly to a player who is known for being half the townie she needs to be as town.

It's also false that she's been sitting there doing nothing in general - the way in which she responded to Rai's case on Affinity, for example, fed us input directly.

Yes, she is voting you because you voted her. So am I. So is huhwhat.

Cut.

[Bardiche]

Your method of convincing us otherwise is "look at the ITP", which is shallow.

for you to honestly cite "she is scummy so this is a conspiracy"

notice that you're accusing Shadoweh of lacking scum suspects

Are you intentionally twisting my words, or is this just accidental?
I'm not saying "look at the ITP" as a reason to vote Shadoweh. I'm saying he's no reason NOT to vote Shadoweh.

But whatever, I can see when someone's going to get off scot free with scummy behaviour.

##Unvote

I'll go re-read IHNN, Affinity, BT, Raikaria. See whether the transgressions of one exceed that of another. Kneejerk reaction is to vote Affinity, but I honestly haven't paid much attention to the other three because I was all "well seem pretty townie". I'm probably going to end up saying BT is pretty townie as well but clearly I must read someone who misinterprets.

[BT]

Those obviously aren't direct quotes. Just my way of posting.

The fact of the matter is that, yes, exactly, you're saying to disregard the claim-based evidence because an ITP is involved. There's more to it than that.

[Validon98]

Well, I guess Serela wasn't under a silence spell sort of thing after all. Okay, there goes the whole "random things happen each day" theory (although going with that for three votes in a row never helped you, Serela, and just served to confuse everyone).
And BT is right. Just because HW is ITP doesn't mean he is trying to screw us over. That's the only reason I trust him at this point, but of course if things don't go the way I figure they're going to go this night with the whole role debacle then I'm going to vote HW D3. Also, Serela's right: Affinity is a huge distraction for everyone right now. I say we lynch him, get him off our minds, and then we can focus on what's going on with IHNN, Bard, HW, and Shadoweh, because I don't want to change my vote until Affinity can prove he's not scum, which he still hasn't done.
Cut: That's still calling attention to the ITP, in a way. So BT's not entirely wrong. Do realize that your two statements are equal to each other logically: You want us to vote Shadoweh either way. Well, as much as I'd like to, I'm willing to wait one night. Only one night, though. If things don't play out with the roles, then I'll vote. Right now, I'm sticking with Affinity.

[BT]

Why do you not bother to refute my argument as to the claim-based evidence's validity? If you're dropping that, drop the Shadoweh suspicion too.

Cut. Taking a shower.

[BT]

That was to Bard.

[Bardiche]

Why do you not bother to refute my argument as to the claim-based evidence's validity? If you're dropping that, drop the Shadoweh suspicion too.

Cut. Taking a shower.

I'm not sure what this "claim-based evidence" is even.

[Validon98]

You are talking to Bard, right? Never mind.
Also, I just realized in my cut that I said I was going to vote for Shadoweh if things didn't play out when I said before the cut I would vote HW. To clarify, I'm probably going to go for HW first, just to get rid of a ITP, and then I'd go for Shadoweh ONLY if evidence doesn't pop up that she's being truthful. I trust her, just not 100%.

[Serela]

##Unvote ##Vote IHNN

[Validon98]

...You already were voting for IHNN, Serela. There you go, being confusing again.

[BT]

If Shadoweh isn't alive, then we can wifom all the way to our graves over whether HW is being crazy gambit (I doubt it, because he's instalynch material if Shadoweh isn't dead and he isn't gone tomorrow, and this is a pretty odd thing to gambit about from first post in the game)

I will be absolutely flippant if she gets shot tonight. It's a good thing to keep in mind.

I'm not sure what this "claim-based evidence" is even.

Additionally, Bard, there are two possibilities here.

a) Shadoweh is Kotarou. This means she's town.
b) Shadoweh is not Kotarou, and is scum. However, according to Prims's wincon, Kotarou exists in this game. If Shadoweh wasn't Kotarou, someone would have counterclaimed. For there to be no CC, Prims must be lying, and must therefore also be mafia. That means they'd be tying each other together an awful lot for two scumbuddies.

We CAN TELL huhwhat has role info on Kotarou because he started searching when the game started. Link that to the above.

A lot of things can be argued about on the basis of huhwhat being an ITP. For instance, I think there's a good chance Shadoweh's in danger of whatever it is that's going on. Additionally, she's probably NOT confirmed town, but unless Dormio decided to mix up flavor and make the protagonist anti-town, there shouldn't be any way to reject the evidence towards Shadoweh being town. Yes, this isn't 100% factual concrete. No, you have not given sufficient reasoning on your part as to why you insist on holding onto your suspicion.

...You already were voting for IHNN, Serela. There you go, being confusing again.

He's probably limited to one big post a day + votes, either that or word limit still. Like Shadoweh, he probably can't admit it.

[Bardiche]

But there's three possibilities.

3) Shadoweh is both Kotarou and scum. Huh What is lying because he doesn't want Shadoweh lynched, as his wincon involves suiciding on her tonight.

[BT]

Do you think that first bit is likely?

[Affinity]

Affinity is a huge distraction for everyone right now. I say we lynch him, get him off our minds, and then we can focus on what's going on with IHNN, Bard, HW, and Shadoweh, because I don't want to change my vote until Affinity can prove he's not scum, which he still hasn't done.

Affinity isn't a town read and everyone's going to keep being hung over on him, seems pretty clear, so he's a distraction even if he's town and might even be scum, so I'm fine with lynching him too.

Probably the saddest reasons ever in all my five years of playing mafia.  Like it's so sad I don't feel like playing any more.  Mafia is supposed the game where you lynch someone with reasons they can contend with, not a game where you single ppl out as distractions and leave them for the sharks later.  What changed?

Serela: Uh didn't you agree that Ralkaria's case on me was bad.  What changed in your perception of me.

Validon: how would you suggest I prove that I'm not scum.  you're not even addressing what I'm saying at all while I am trying to address what everyone is saying.  so lazy and bad.

[Bardiche]

Do you think that first bit is likely?

Would I have been voting her if I thought it was impossible? Nameclaims don't point to anything. There's been plenty of cases where a protagonist is scum.

Affinity are you AtE

[BT]

You're lacking an opinion on a certain recent event.

Also: I think people think you're too preoccupied with addressing everyone's complaints. As you have shown right now.

Cut: Of course it's not impossible, as I've said in that very post, but I don't understand why you choose to oppose such high likelihoods of a slot being town for a case that isn't strong enough to justify that.

[Validon98]

...You know what, to be honest, I don't even know why everyone was voting for Affinity. If I remember correctly, it was for basically focusing on defending himself and not contributing much to the conversation in terms of scumhunting. There was also something about BBM that I never understood. Right now, BBM isn't giving me any reasons to label him scum, so that's one thing. Perhaps if you can convince me why you think BBM is scum besides "he voted for me," I'll get off your back?
Also, forget about Serela answering you. We've being toyed with by forces beyond our control. Screw it, I'm going back to the "random things happen to a person each day," except now I'll tack on BT's theory that they can't say what exactly is going on. I swear, if this doesn't get cleared up when the game's over, I'm never playing another Dormio game again. "This game may or may not contain certain gameplay elements which could be considered by some to be somewhat bastardly,"... I'm calling them bastardly and sticking to my guns with that.