Tales of Phantasmal Land Redux (NOW RECRUITING PLAYERS FOR INCIDENT!)

[Ikari]

I've already got a few real life players, so if anyone wants to learn to play or stuff, I can help Fun to see people are interested in actually playing it!

[Hanzo K.]

We'd have to do it via IRC or something though, like webchat, mibbit, or what have you.
And in games like this, character generation is always the most challenging part to me. Not coming up with the character concept, but finagling the little details that make it complete.
At least this seems to have a point-buy system, as opposed to random dice rolls. (D&D and it's derivatives, I'm looking square at you.)

[Ikari]

We're working around the dice rolls thing, but it'll most definitely keep the basic concept of Phantasmal Land; Instead of having a dice roll that is influenced by your stats, it'll be your stats that will be influenced by dice rolls, which will represent luck.

Haven't you ever seen a pro screw up in something easy? Or a newbie accomplish a miraculous thing through sheer luck? Obviously you have. Does bring surprise and excitement? It sure does! That's why we're trying to work around it a bit (because it's very flawed already >_>)

Now, I'll talk about something vital that every players should know if they want to make this game enjoyable.

COMMON SENSE, DAMN IT

There ARE a few rules that have to be respected as basic Gensokyan knowledge, not as gameplay rules.

- Do not always treat every fight as a life or death situation, because unlike D&D and its other derivatives, most of the fight you'll have are going to be about having fun and challenging your ability in a game. That means several things.

• Using your full power at all time (using all your spellcards, casting all your powerful spells) is a big no-no. As the spellcard rules state, let reason become your strength. Unless specified by your opponent, you aren't supposed to go all out, unless something extremely dear to you is threatened.
• A very important rule; Battles between players and NPC will almost always have rules. Not pre-set rules, no, rules you and your opponent will make up to make your battle an enjoyable, fun and challenging fight for both of you. Things like ''After x lives lost, you lose''* and ''You can only use x spellcard'' and other things like that are highly encouraged. Remember that danmaku is a game, much like Rock Paper Scissors can settle trivial things. A very popular set of rules I've observed so far is ''2 lives, two spellcard''.

*This will cause your loss, but unless your life count reached 0, you'll still be fully conscious and available to function, if only tired. That's why it's highly reccomended to set a life loss cap, since losing all your lives will incapacitate you.

- Think like your race should. A youkai does not see time the same way as a human does, and a fairy couldn't care less about dying because they'll just forget and reincarnate anyway. If you're not sure, ask around to other players and they may give you tips. Being out of character will make the GM lose his respect toward you, and you do not want to lose the respect of the guy who controls your adventure.

- The original Phantasmal Land pretty much asks every time you'll play to turn into an incident. I'm sorry, but that will not be the case in this one. Incidents may pop up, you may even create one, but for god sake, don't you dare to tell me you want this game to turn into a linear series of quests that you'll have to do or I'll punch your ovaries.

Pretty sure that's all I can think of for now.

[Hanzo K.]

You're gonna keep the point-buy system for the stats right? Because I freakin' liked that about this. I can't tell you how many times I've been screwed over by bad stat rolls.
And I rather like these characters, so I don't wanna lose them to bad stat rolls. I'd rather be able to customize them according to how the character is.
(One universal constant is that for the female characters, they'll always have high Cunning. And varying 'endearments?' in the breed of sarcasm, or otherwise similar. Such as this one Kitsune type I've got running around in my head.)

(PS: She needs to learn that my mindscape isn't a jungle gym! :getdown: )

[Ikari]

You're gonna keep the point-buy system for the stats right?

Uh, yeah, what else could we use-

I can't tell you how many times I've been screwed over by bad stat rolls. I'd rather be able to customize them according to how the character is.

OH DEAR HEAVEN, YOU MEAN THOSE HORRIBLE ''your stats are decided by a dice roll'' THINGS? OH FUCK NO, I WON'T LET ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE TO THAT EVEN APPROACH THIS GAME. NO WAY. EVER.

[Hanzo K.]

 
We're on the same page then! I liked D&D, but how a lot of folks left the stats up to a roll of the dice really hurt me more often than not.

And that's not getting into the handheld/console D&D games where you have to sit there for hours just to get the one stat you like for that character to be remotely good.
...Only to find out that another, almost-as-crucial stat, is complete and utter garbage. (Who ever heard of a Sorc with less than 10 Charisma?! That's just insane!)

[Ikari]

It's time to cover a very important piece of gameplay that was NOT present in Phantamal Land!

MAGIC

I don't mean magic as in the spell sections of Phantasmal Land, nor how using spells will work, etc...

Do you remember how the original pdf had a set list of spells with a set cost? I'm sorry, but we're talking about Touhou here.

Do magicians use set spells in Touhou? Is magic a pre-determined thing with pre-made spells? Of course not. People make up their spells by using a domain of magic and being creative about it. Marisa has light magic, Alice has remote object manipulation and Patchouli has elemental magic. I'm 95 % sure all of them made up their own spells (Okay, Marisa DID do a few remixes, but you get my point >_>). Why would your character have to follow a rulebook?

Magic in Touhou works in a very simple way; Some races are able to use magic naturally, and a few of them have a set domain of magic. Kitsune have illusion magic, Rabbits have luck magic, Nekomatas have dark magic, Kashas have necromancy, etc... Magicians DO have a ''choose your own domain'' thing though.

Basically, if you're going to be a magic user in Touhou (which is surprisingly not obligatory), don't expect me to throw a 10 pages list of spells and tell you to pick those you'd like. You'll have to make up your own spells, research them, work on them, and spend FP on them. Is that lazy from me, expecting you to do all the work? Probably. Is it a bad thing? Certainly not. Creativity is a major part of Touhou and there is no way I'm taking it out.

TL;DR: Magic will work in split domains and you will create your own spells, with their own names. Knock yourself out!

[Hanzo K.]

So for example, say, that Kitsune I was talking about earlier, would have something in the Illusion school that is actually useful for attacking. Seeing as the stock set listed in the .pdf has attacks only in the elemental schools.
The idea being based on the ever-popular 'Kitsunebi'. Fox Fire. A time-honored staple of all things Fox.

[Ikari]

So for example, say, that Kitsune I was talking about earlier, would have something in the Illusion school that is actually useful for attacking. Seeing as the stock set listed in the .pdf has attacks only in the elemental schools.
The idea being based on the ever-popular 'Kitsunebi'. Fox Fire. A time-honored staple of all things Fox.

I was sorely disappointed in the lack of offensive spells in the illusion category, as Kitsune would be limited to defensive spells unless they went OOC >_>

At the same time, Kitsune AREN'T supposed to have a heavy arsenal of offensive magic. None at all is harsh, though. At the same time, elemental spells were pretty limited too. Minor fire control and fire bolts, how powerful. I know spellcards are supposed to be the higher notch of magic, but spells should also have their places in the game, right?

Also we already have 4 very active players with defined characters, so I might as well list them before we get a copy of those.

Ikari Kanashimi (character came first, username second): Magician, magic based on the three basic emotions and their respective elements; The flames of Anger (fire), The tears of Melancoly (water) and the Winds of Joy (wind).

Akimi Tsuki: A Kitsune who favors swordsmanship over magic, and uses illusions that create the actual impression of a physical contact, making her spells very scarce as they require a lot of energy.

Usagi Akuma: A Rabbit youkai with luck magic, and has spellcards that specializes in lucky/unlucky artifacts; 4-leafs clovers, the box of Pandora, etc.

Manabu Tadao: A magician youkai that strayed from the path of regular magic and specializes in the manipulation of books; Shooting text, summoning material beings from stories, etc...

[Hanzo K.]

...Nothing there I had concepts for. Though I have to agree that they are nice.
See, the concept in particular for the Kitsune I had was based heavily on the most famous one of all, Tamamo-no-Mae.
Seeing the item "Tamamo's Garb", merely solidified the idea for me.

Of course, as opposed to the more common interpretations as seen in such series as Fate/Extra, she's more the demure snarker sort.
(Which, obviously, would mean she'd come at default with Tsundere. Something I have no trouble with portraying, being given to equal moments of snark and warmth.)

[Ikari]

Sounds great. And, you reminded me of another subject!

ENDEARMENTS

I wouldn't say I removed the whole thing, but I kinda did. You won't have official endearments that will give you fan points when you pick them and act like them. Two major reasons;

1) That's basically calling players idiots and saying ''GUYS, GUYS, MARY SUES AREN'T GOOD, GET SOME FLAWS''. I mean, I think everyone here knows a character needs flaws, without having to poke at them every single minute and saying ''LOOK, I'M A FORGETFUL PERSON, AREN'T I JUST QUIRKY''.

2) Most of them were ridiculous. Tail humpers? Trap? Come on, we're not in a cheap, badly made anime where we need some HILARIOUS moment caused by some player >_> It feels forced and weird. Plus, the endearments were meant to be played without nuances, which turns the very nice trait that can be a good Tsundere into a bad anime stereotype.

So yeah, no endearments, but no Mary Sues either.

[Hanzo K.]

So....How do we even get FP any ways? The way I was reading it, it talked like Endearments were the only way aside from the 'Very Bad Things'.

[Ikari]

FANDOM POINTS

While it was an excellent concept by itself, it's very lacking when it comes to one major point; Giving the points.

The original version has an insanely awkward way of gaining them, by making players borrow them by taking bad stuff, gain them when doing said bad stuff (like being lazy), etc. It's silly, and encourages the player to milk that problem, making it very bizarre and boring.

The new version is to give a fixed 15 fan points at the character creation and then give some to players based purely on their accomplishments and participations during the game. You stopped Flandre from destroying the world? Good for you, here's a whole bunch of them. You did a small quest for Reimu? Here's a little amount of them. It's more of a way to encourage player to do greater things, and also capping naturally the amount they gain; If they start the game, they won't be able to do grandiose things, limiting them to lower fandom points gains, and thus increasing said gains by doing greater things as they level up.

[Hanzo K.]

Ah! Danke. 15 at outset, and earn 'em like EXP for doing various things. I get it!

So...The .pdf also talked about increasing stats after creation. That seems to imply an almost Level Up-ish mechanic.

[Ikari]

Ah! Danke. 15 at outset, and earn 'em like EXP for doing various things. I get it!

So...The .pdf also talked about increasing stats after creation. That seems to imply an almost Level Up-ish mechanic.

Yep. As explained in the stats section in the first page, it worked weirdly, advantaged min-maxing and generally sucked because leveling up = wasting a LOT of fp on what could be spellcard material or spells.

[Zork787]

Just curious but is reading the original rules absolutely required before your modified rules can be used?

We'd have to do it via IRC or something though, like webchat, mibbit, or what have you.
And in games like this, character generation is always the most challenging part to me. Not coming up with the character concept, but finagling the little details that make it complete.
At least this seems to have a point-buy system, as opposed to random dice rolls. (D&D and it's derivatives, I'm looking square at you.)

Also Skype and Mumble/Teamspeak/Ventrillo are some other options to consider though skype is probably the most used as it's free and easy to use in the long run, plus it has video chat too, and you can even stream your desktop through it if you ever needed to do visual instructions on how the character sheet works and so on.

[Hanzo K.]

To be fair, I'd consider trying to max everything as an effort in insanity. (ignoring the fact that you can also come across resistance/immunity to that. :V)
Everyone's got their weak points and strong points after all. (I mean, look at me. I'm a whiz at reading and such, but as a cost, numbers are my weakest matter.)

I was actually just recently thinking about a way to salvage the aesthetics mechanic. Instead of say, specific aesthetics, certain things give direct bonuses to specific things on a ranking system.
Let's use something like Tamamo's Garb as an example. Instead of just doing a bonus to say, Noble Aesthetic, like it logically would, it instead gives bonuses on rolls for bluff, and other social rolls. Given how it's said to be the legendary clothes that Tamamo-no-Mae was famed for. And as she was a Kitsune, the bluff bit's perfectly sensible.

For another example, thick gloves meant specifically for gardening would give bonuses to that particular skill, as opposed to the whole 'Tradesman/Merchant Aesthetic'. (They ARE meant for Gardening after all, and I've found that a good pair of gloves makes the job easier.)


So say we're looking at the Tokin that all the Tengu wear. Note how there's different varieties in canon. Different Tokin, made specifically for that strain of Tengu, are better-suited to the specific task that kind does.
I know it might sound somewhat confusing, but just look at it like they're not quite a 'Precious Thing/Artifact', but also fill a better role than merely window dressing.

[Ikari]

Just curious but is reading the original rules absolutely required before your modified rules can be used?

To be understood clearly, the original needs to be read. Although, know that this thread is made to be an info dump in preparation for the entire re-write that this pdf will get. I'm posting sections to gauge people's reactions.

Excellent point, but that isn't aesthetics; That's practicality and enchanted objects, which will naturally be included.

Aesthetics was basically getting bonuses that didn't make sense based only on how you look. I'm sorry, wearing scholar's clothes will not make me smarter. Yet Phantasmal Land said it would :V

To be fair, I'd consider trying to max everything as an effort in insanity. (ignoring the fact that you can also come across resistance/immunity to that. :V)
Everyone's got their weak points and strong points after all. (I mean, look at me. I'm a whiz at reading and such, but as a cost, numbers are my weakest matter.)

Scary how we have the same strong points and flaws.

And min-maxing as much as you can will kill you :V Seriously.

Because one day, you'll become like me. Oh sure, my aim was fantastic so I usually hit my opponent more often. My dodging stat? Horrible. In the end, I fought someone with a good evade and ok accuracy. I was curb-stomped because I couldn't hit him especially often, but HE sure did.

[AnonymousPondScum]

I'll say it again: I think the Endearments were meant less as an anti-Mary Sue mechanism and more as an attempt at humor revolving around how much of Touhou's content is fanmade.

Unfortunately it still wasn't well-executed and thus we are using Ikari's system since it actually gets results. That and the tail-humper and trap "endearments" were probably reason enough to scorch the entire concept anyway.

[Ikari]

I'll say it again: I think the Endearments were meant less as an anti-Mary Sue mechanism and more as an attempt at humor revolving around how much of Touhou's content is fanmade.

Unfortunately it still wasn't well-executed and thus we are using Ikari's system since it actually gets results. That and the tail-humper and trap "endearments" were probably reason enough to scorch the entire concept anyway.

Good point. Well, whatever it was meant to represent, it's gone now, like all the other silly rules that pokes fun at classical Touhou memes, like the hat rule. If you're making a game, for heaven's sake, make it playable plz.

[Hanzo K.]

Numbers aren't my only weak point though. There's quite a few actually. Some...Well, let's just say folks have to earn my trust to learn those.
I'm also ass at writing things down without a computer. Get me in front of a computer or typewriter though, and hoo-wee! Look at them fingers fly!
I'm also dismal with drawing, coding, and the like. (Coding due to my aforementioned weakness in the numbers field. I get a severe headache if I mess with anything math-related that's higher than the basics.)


Either way, it's good that you could understand what I'm getting at. After all, as they say, "Clothes do make the man". And the right gear can do a world of help.
For example, a proper outfit like the oft-mentioned Tamamo's Garb would improve social rolls simply because of two reasons.
It looks damn nice, and won't get dirty or wrinkled no matter what you do with it.
And, it just plain looks convincingly 'Elite'.
(In fact, said item's actually one such 'Precious THing' I plan to start with on the aforementioned Kitsune. Because she's modeled heavily on her. (More like a slightly weaker one who looks up to her.))

Admittedly though, some of those 'endearments' could have worked out if played properly. For example, how I play Tsundere characters in various mediums is pretty damn close to how Alice herself is in Canon. Snippy, quick to pull out a scathing remark or two if the timing's right, but will occasionally have a Pet The Dog moment or two.
Then again, that's how I am in person to begin with. Just a bit more or less Ham depending on how my mental/emotional state is that day. :V
And whatever you do, for the love of Shinki, don't get me started on puns. (If any of you have read the groaners I've belted out in Dark Quest, you know what you're in for.)

But enough about me, let's get back to discussin' the game!

[Ikari]

I'm also ass at writing things down without a computer. Get me in front of a computer or typewriter though, and hoo-wee! Look at them fingers fly!

Story of my life.

Either way, it's good that you could understand what I'm getting at. After all, as they say, "Clothes do make the man". And the right gear can do a world of help.
For example, a proper outfit like the oft-mentioned Tamamo's Garb would improve social rolls simply because of two reasons.
It looks damn nice, and won't get dirty or wrinkled no matter what you do with it.
And, it just plain looks convincingly 'Elite'.
(In fact, said item's actually one such 'Precious THing' I plan to start with on the aforementioned Kitsune. Because she's modeled heavily on her. (More like a slightly weaker one who looks up to her.))

Starting the game with a precious thing can actually make your character's style be based on said artifact, which isn't bad at all. Look at Tenshi, her entire power set is based on keystones and the sword of Hisou!

Admittedly though, some of those 'endearments' could have worked out if played properly.

I agree, but the whole part where they give you points when you do something to your endearment was pressuring the players into forcibly acting dumb to be rewarded. I just removed all of that and assumed people are smart enough to create an enjoyable character with enough characterization to feel real and be interesting.

[Zork787]

I agree, but the whole part where they give you points when you do something to your endearment was pressuring the players into forcibly acting dumb to be rewarded. I just removed all of that and assumed people are smart enough to create an enjoyable character with enough characterization to feel real and be interesting.

So essentially, if you want a Tsundere character, just make a character that's a Tsundere, just make sure they're actually believable  and your not just forcing it on or somethin.

Speaking of Character creation and customisation, I really should develop my character some more for this, though I'd like to get my hands on a character sheet first so then I can focus on actually making the character

[Ikari]

So essentially, if you want a Tsundere character, just make a character that's a Tsundere, just make sure they're actually believable  and your not just forcing it on or somethin.

I don't think anyone could possibly say it better than this.

Speaking of Character creation and customisation, I really should develop my character some more for this, though I'd like to get my hands on a character sheet first so then I can focus on actually making the character

Of course. Since I'm currently working on the spellcard and spells system, it'll include more informational parts of the character instead of gameplay related things.

[Hanzo K.]

And then there's Flan and Remi with their items. And Marisa and her Hakkero.

Of course, I have more than just a Kitsune planned out, there's just the matter of using the right one for the right events. (Alt-itis? Maybe. I just like a little variety yo.)
Like a Vampire who hardly ever talks(She prefers to just convey her emotions via looks and a notepad. Unfortunately for her, she's not terribly emotive.) outside of singing(which the only occasionally does when she's in a good enough mood. She also is an erstwhile associate of the scarlet crew, having fallen into working the library with koa and patchy.), And a certain sort of Magician who, like Marisa, is partial to unloading massive beams of fuckyou as a means to resolving her combat-based problems, but like Alice, also seeks to create life in her own special way. (Mostly by trying to pump items with enough magic to artificially produce Tsukumogami. She's more of a legacy character than anything else though. Also insanely snarky, and possibly less moral than Umbrella when it comes to making progress. She certainly doesn't follow Human Morals, that's for sure.)


And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There's many more who still sleep inside my mindspace, waiting for the right time to awaken.

[Ikari]

Ooh boy, you sure seem to have a lot of characters.

Here's a tip, though; making too many characters will end up in some of them being abandonned for better, more characterized characters that you particularly prefer. I've actually made 2 other characters, and they all ended up being NPCs because playing as them felt dull compared to being Ikari.

Attached to this post is the very crappy and basic character sheet meant for simple character creation without touching the game rules too much.

There's the basic Stat allocation included, so I guess an explanation of them is required.

Regular Stats

Might: It defines your endurance and physical strength. Pretty simple, right?
Finesse: Synonym of dexterity, it does things like making sneaking easier, stealing, pick-pocketing, evading, doing acrobatics, etc.
Resolution: Your ability to endure pain and be less harmed when something dangerous happens out of a danmaku duel. Also defines your mental and physical fortitude, such as resisting status effects, mind readings/controls and such.
Will: Your magical limit, it will define your ability to USE magic and such. Thus, a high will means higher power spells are available for you to cast. See Cunning as well.
Charm: Charisma!!! Social skills are pretty important, and it also defines your empathy, thus ability to sense others emotions without it being all magical >_>
Cunning: Your ability to understand magic and to comprehend certain things, it's necessary when it comes to researching magic, or to comprehend and see things others cannot.

Battle Stats

Lives: Duh.
Bombs: *cough*Magical-Reserves-for-Spellcards*cough*
Hitbox: If an attack is grazed, an hitbox roll will be done to see if you barely dodge it, or actually get hit. Some effects activate when someone grazes, so do not take grazing as dodging.
Evasion: Dodge rolls in battle.
Accuracy: Your hit rolls are based on this.
Initiative: Will define who goes when in battle, the highest acting faster.

[Hanzo K.]

Well, some of them are also awaiting the right thing as well, which might not be this game either.
The magician in particular is a sort of Legacy Character/AU Character from another, more jRPG-ish game run and created by another forum member. She's one of two 'Player Characters' I use in that game. (She's also very much The Napoleon. But you try being anything but that when you manage to become a full Magician at the young age of 12. It was by accident due to her just being more mentally there than most her age.)

The other one's a Tsukumogami made from a cursed sword, and she was also created by the aforementioned Magician. She's also quite possibly even MORE out there than the typical depiction of Flandre. And in little outside gameplay moments, which we've termed 'Gaiden Moments', she's pretty much the quirky comic relief who shouts about all sorts of things. Like turnips and how they'll make you eat cheese. She too is also surprisingly cute. After all, the Cute but Psycho trope was a core trope to her design.

[Ikari]

The magician in particular is a sort of Legacy Character/AU Character from another, more jRPG-ish game run and created by another forum member. She's one of two 'Player Characters' I use in that game. (She's also very much The Napoleon. But you try being anything but that when you manage to become a full Magician at the young age of 12. It was by accident due to her just being more mentally there than most her age.)

That character tickles my fancy. I've always liked the idea of a young magician, and all the things it implies.

Anyway, if anything isn't clear with the character sheet, or if you want to add/remove something, just go ahead and say it, I'm open to suggestions.

[Hanzo K.]

Well, she was very much designed with the whole 'Creepy Child' aesthetic in mind. (Right down to wearing that perennial favorite of the Creepy Child, GothLoli style. On occasion of course.)
Basically, despite her young appearance, she's frighteningly mature in a mental regard. (She was already like that to begin with, and living for 200 years as a Magician just added to it. As such, she often knows what makes people tick, and will use a well-thought-out barb to rile them up.
(In fact, one of her two mechanics as a bonus boss for future players in said game revolves around having a barb for every kind of class or youkai. Occasionally they're custom-tailored for the character as an individual. The other one's more akin to Ozma from FF9. Barrierchange Boss Ahoy!)

So far things are looking okay though.

[AnonymousPondScum]

I've got...

...An oni who's a wine snob and thinks other oni are boorish for drinking beer and thus got kicked up to the surface.

:getdown:

Also, an out-of-time Princess Guineverre protected by animated armors of the Knights of the Round a Valkyrie who's wondering where the Norse pantheon went, and heard that some time ago a pair of suspicious characters made off with two of the mightiest weapons of the Norse gods...