Author Topic: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more  (Read 174330 times)

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #360 on: September 24, 2012, 06:53:14 PM »
To be fair, this alone is pretty much a true statement almost universally.


Well, considering that many of them are youkai, which have made a fearful habit out of scaring, killing and eating humans, I think someone like Akyuu may very well have every right to paint a lot of them in a negative light. The point of Perfect Memento and Symposium in ZUN's canon is to inform and warn humans as to the dangers that liter Gensoukyou from another human's perspective--and a trustworthy human at that, in the eyes of the villagers; her judgments may be biased, but looking at where she's coming from, I can understand completely~

Yeah, 'cept some of them (like Rumia, Mystia, Kogasa, etc.) are hilariously terrible at their jobs.

Tengukami

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Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #361 on: September 24, 2012, 06:57:25 PM »
See also "unreliable narrator". It's not that Akyuu is being deliberately deceitful; she's just explaining events through the cloud of her own biases. Personally, I think it's a joy to read such material, and I'd love to see more of it.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #362 on: September 24, 2012, 07:37:47 PM »
See also "unreliable narrator". It's not that Akyuu is being deliberately deceitful; she's just explaining events through the cloud of her own biases. Personally, I think it's a joy to read such material, and I'd love to see more of it.

Exactly. Plus, it's a refreshing breeze from the usual point of view the game gives; Reimu and Marisa (and now Sanae) are the complete opposite of Akyuu; While Akyuu will warn humans about every youkai, even Rumia since she IS dangerous to a regular human, Reimu/Marisa can pretty much go punch a god in the face and say ''Meh, whatever.''

It's extremely well written, too (in my opinion), which makes it really nice.

Raikaria

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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #363 on: September 24, 2012, 07:53:53 PM »
Yeah, 'cept some of them (like Rumia, Mystia, Kogasa, etc.) are hilariously terrible at their jobs.

I'll give you Rumia and Kogasa [Kogasa is debatable since she surprises the other side of the 4th wall], but Mystia is hardly bad at her job. She does try and ambush and eat the heros. Given they are not normal humans she's fighting in IN... imagine if they were normal humans.

And yeah, normal humans are squishy and probably would be eaten if they bumped into Rumia or Mystcia.


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Ikari

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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #364 on: September 24, 2012, 08:10:54 PM »
Mystia is even wiser than we think; She sells lamprey that ''cures night-blindness'', which she caused herself.

For a youkai, that's pretty smart; She doesn't just prey on humans, she also extorts them.

ShiroiMahotsukai

  • White Mage with a Twist
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #365 on: September 24, 2012, 08:18:39 PM »
Which is exactly why Akyuu gives her warnings the way she does. I have found that a lot of it is common sense though: Do not stick your head into the floating ball of absolute darkness if you want to keep your face. It would be advisable if you did not challenge the half-ghost swordswoman who can moves faser than you can blink. Angering someone who can kill just by willing it is also not a good idea.

I think it's important that she provides pictures, how else are people supposedto tell who;s who otherwise?
"The eyes are the windows that let us gaze upon the soul"

Ikari

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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #366 on: September 24, 2012, 08:23:55 PM »
Which is exactly why Akyuu gives her warnings the way she does. I have found that a lot of it is common sense though: Do not stick your head into the floating ball of absolute darkness if you want to keep your face. It would be advisable if you did not challenge the half-ghost swordswoman who can moves faser than you can blink. Angering someone who can kill just by willing it is also not a good idea.

Exactly, it kinda stings the reader at first when you read it, the ''risk level'' especially. Yukari, high risk level? Why, she's not aggre- Oh, right she can manipulate reality and she's by the far the last person you want to mess it. And so on for a LOT of characters. Common sense is used, and it's somewhat funny considering Gensokyo rarely follows said common sense.

Drake

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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #367 on: September 24, 2012, 10:35:42 PM »
Going to have to thank Clarste because that post was essentially exactly what I'd say.

This is why Gensokyo is portrayed through a wide variety of different lenses. Even if, say, we only had one book outside of the games for canon material, that's still better than seeing Gensokyo entirely through the games, which for the most part shouldn't be taken literally at all. This is why we have CoLA: a composition of small seemingly insignficant events with hidden gems of importance viewed through the eyes of Rinnosuke, a half-youkai(!) who can't fight, runs a small shop, talks to people, and tries to explain things he experiences entirely through his perspective. This is why we have SSiB and CiLR: two respective halves of the same story, currently Gensokyo's only serious plot that doesn't revolve around beating each other up and instead concentrating on the way characters think and behave. SSiB being a manga gives the reader a clear view of events, creating a mostly-objective viewpoint, and CiLR is extremely detailed and fleshes out everything that isn't actually shown. This is why we have the Three Fairies trilogy: a manga using the three fairies as perspective in a similar way to CoLA, acting as background observing devices who like to go investigate some of the most meaningless things, in order to give the reader a visual account of events for anything ZUN whimsies to show us. Importantly, there is very rarely any distinction drawn between mundane events and important events, because the fairies just don't care. This sort of character bias can barely even be called a bias.

This is also why we have another more dramatic manga, interviews and newspaper articles, more interviews and newspaper articles with two writers, a documentation of characters by a biased human that doesn't know much outside of their own interaction but has essentially lived super long, another documentation of characters by a biased human etc, a debate between several parties meant to reveal the sentiments and stances of their larger groups, and a collection of spellcards described in real terms instead of game visuals along with little notes about mythologies and whatnot.

and then we take all of that and we just make a lot of porn

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BL2W

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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #368 on: September 24, 2012, 10:53:50 PM »
and then we take all of that and we just make a lot of porn

Not to mention, with just about anything made in Japan, the cardinal guideline seems to be that all females have to at least be bisexual, and in the case of Touhou... Well...

LESBIANS. LESBIANS EVERYWHERE.
:derp:

(By the way, if I may go back to the core point of this thread, I, myself, would actually like to see less hormone-driven imagery in doujinshi and fan art, but I'm well-aware that isn't going to be happening any time soon.)

Now, you can follow my art studio, KyokoPro Studios, on deviantART, Facebook, and YouTube~!

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #369 on: September 24, 2012, 10:55:19 PM »
(By the way, if I may go back to the core point of this thread, I, myself, would actually like to see less hormone-driven imagery in doujinshi and artwork, but I'm well-aware that isn't going to be happening any time soon.)

is there still room for Malice

i can't live without my Malice :C

ShiroiMahotsukai

  • White Mage with a Twist
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #370 on: September 24, 2012, 10:57:22 PM »
Going to have to thank Clarste because that post was essentially exactly what I'd say.

This is why Gensokyo is portrayed through a wide variety of different lenses. Even if, say, we only had one book outside of the games for canon material, that's still better than seeing Gensokyo entirely through the games, which for the most part shouldn't be taken literally at all. This is why we have CoLA: a composition of small seemingly insignficant events with hidden gems of importance viewed through the eyes of Rinnosuke, a half-youkai(!) who can't fight, runs a small shop, talks to people, and tries to explain things he experiences entirely through his perspective. This is why we have SSiB and CiLR: two respective halves of the same story, currently Gensokyo's only serious plot that doesn't revolve around beating each other up and instead concentrating on the way characters think and behave. SSiB being a manga gives the reader a clear view of events, creating a mostly-objective viewpoint, and CiLR is extremely detailed and fleshes out everything that isn't actually shown. This is why we have the Three Fairies trilogy: a manga using the three fairies as perspective in a similar way to CoLA, acting as background observing devices who like to go investigate some of the most meaningless things, in order to give the reader a visual account of events for anything ZUN whimsies to show us. Importantly, there is very rarely any distinction drawn between mundane events and important events, because the fairies just don't care. This sort of character bias can barely even be called a bias.

This is also why we have another more dramatic manga, interviews and newspaper articles, more interviews and newspaper articles with two writers, a documentation of characters by a biased human that doesn't know much outside of their own interaction but has essentially lived super long, another documentation of characters by a biased human etc, a debate between several parties meant to reveal the sentiments and stances of their larger groups, and a collection of spellcards described in real terms instead of game visuals along with little notes about mythologies and whatnot.

and then we take all of that and we just make a lot of porn
This is what drew me to Touhou in the first place, this myriad of different viewpoints coming together to make a coherent structured world that still leaves plenty to the imagination. It's a wonderful feeling to watch/read/play something set in a world like this, understanding that what you know isn't everything and all sorts off opportunities exists for you to make something of it. At least that's what I believe.
"The eyes are the windows that let us gaze upon the soul"

BL2W

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  • I take many forms, and this won't be my last.
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #371 on: September 24, 2012, 10:59:09 PM »
is there still room for Malice

i can't live without my Malice :C

Well, I guess if I had to be a little more specific (and fairer, given the strength of the market), I would like to see more subtlety about it, if anything~

Now, you can follow my art studio, KyokoPro Studios, on deviantART, Facebook, and YouTube~!

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #372 on: September 24, 2012, 11:02:27 PM »
Well, I guess if I had to be a little more specific (and fairer, given the strength of the market), I would like to see more subtlety about it, if anything~

I'm a fan of Malice, but seriously, any and every pairing can be good in Touhou if done well. A CirnoXPatchouli can be just as  good/horrible as a MariXAlice. I really dislike the crappy ''MARISA IM HORNEH HUR HUR LESBIANS'' ''OH ALICE HUR HUR''.

BL2W

  • ~ SHINING FINGER ~
  • I take many forms, and this won't be my last.
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #373 on: September 24, 2012, 11:12:51 PM »
I really dislike the crappy ''MARISA IM HORNEH HUR HUR LESBIANS'' ''OH ALICE HUR HUR''.

Precisely. I understand that Japan is still a very sexually-repressed society and they need to vent their urges, but that excuse doesn't make the void of more appropriate, reasonable portrayals of lesbianism any less daunting~ :wat:

Now, you can follow my art studio, KyokoPro Studios, on deviantART, Facebook, and YouTube~!

Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #374 on: September 24, 2012, 11:15:08 PM »
is there still room for Malice

i can't live without my Malice :C

Me neither. Even my username was based on it :(

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #375 on: September 24, 2012, 11:17:11 PM »
Precisely. I understand that Japan is still a very sexually-repressed society and they need to vent their urges, but that excuse doesn't make the void of more appropriate, reasonable portrayals of lesbianism any less daunting~ :wat:

Yeah. The most confusing doujin I've read was a doujin about Marisa and Reimu's antics and stuff, and there's this part where Marisa explains Reimu's attitude depending on the amount of donations she get each day, so she thinks; ''Hey, I wonder what happen if I give 100 000 yen?''

SUDDENLY KINKY BONDAGE LESBIAN SEX.

What.

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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #376 on: September 24, 2012, 11:19:05 PM »
Alright, fine fine.

I just get sore whenever people sometimes go into YOUR TOHOS ARE BAD PEOPLE CAUSE CANON SAYS SO mode.

Reimu is insanely grumpy and racist, at least :V

But yeah, the constant 'everyone is terrible and grim and dark and eats people' gets irritating, after a while.

http://eva-st-clare.deviantart.com/art/FAILice-For-Dummies-185420748 For people who hate shitty Alice hate. WHERE the FUCK did the Alice hate come from? Every unfunny gag manga has a joke shitting on her.

fake edit: The sex is just a bonus to fluffy yuri. >:C
Sonata of Scarlet Sunflowers, a Flandre x Yuuka story. | Laziness of Daemonic Wastrels, wherein The Dude, Frylock, HW Guy, and David Wong get their asses kicked in Gensokyo.  | T.O.U.H.O.U.: Land of Shadows, a S.T.A.L.K.E.R./Touhou crossover. | Abomination, a monster story.

Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #377 on: September 24, 2012, 11:27:11 PM »
Yeah. The most confusing doujin I've read was a doujin about Marisa and Reimu's antics and stuff, and there's this part where Marisa explains Reimu's attitude depending on the amount of donations she get each day, so she thinks; ''Hey, I wonder what happen if I give 100 000 yen?''

SUDDENLY KINKY BONDAGE LESBIAN SEX.

What.
Well at least that type of pairing-up is mainly just for comedic effect and well not really to be taken seriously...

Didn't that doujin have Marisa leave after she saw Reimu pretty much waiting for her to get in bed though?

BL2W

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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #378 on: September 24, 2012, 11:28:58 PM »
http://eva-st-clare.deviantart.com/art/FAILice-For-Dummies-185420748 For people who hate shitty Alice hate. WHERE the FUCK did the Alice hate come from? Every unfunny gag manga has a joke shitting on her.
V
V
Quote
"Pro tip: Alice sucks, so make her suffer at any cost!"

... :ohdear: *silently cries*
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 11:30:45 PM by BL2W »

Now, you can follow my art studio, KyokoPro Studios, on deviantART, Facebook, and YouTube~!

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #379 on: September 24, 2012, 11:29:54 PM »
Well at least that type of pairing-up is mainly just for comedic effect and well not really to be taken seriously...

Didn't that doujin have Marisa leave after she saw Reimu pretty much waiting for her to get in bed though?

Now that I think about it, it did have a bit of comedy in it... But still, we all know there are doujins are there who are just as random, if not worse, and are 100 % serious.

"Pro tip: Alice sucks, so make her suffer at any cost!"

... :ohdear: *silently cries*

...*cries in unison*

Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #380 on: September 24, 2012, 11:37:37 PM »
Out of interest is this the one you were referring to? http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/515645/2girls-absurdres-bandana-bow-box-broom-comic-cup-d (NSFW Danbooru Advertisements Notice)



Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #381 on: September 24, 2012, 11:43:07 PM »
Out of interest is this the one you were referring to? http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/515645/2girls-absurdres-bandana-bow-box-broom-comic-cup-d (NSFW Danbooru Advertisements Notice)

Yep, that's the one.  :D

Goldom

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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #382 on: September 25, 2012, 01:13:57 AM »
Didn't that doujin have Marisa leave after she saw Reimu pretty much waiting for her to get in bed though?

The first time.
She goes back.

It's listed here on the wiki.

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #383 on: September 25, 2012, 01:38:28 AM »
The first time.
She goes back.

Dayum, Marisa, you get all the girls.

Topic related, I learned to enjoy hilarious random touhou comics. I think Bomber grape's series on Danbooru was the most hilarious thing I've ever read in my entire life.

Satori: Maybe it's this switch?
*far away, in the SDM*
Sakuya: Uh?
*padsplosion*

Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #384 on: September 25, 2012, 04:42:42 AM »
[...]and then we take all of that and we just make a lot of porn
This is what drew me to Touhou in the first place[...]

unfortunate quote placement hoooooo :flowerpower:

Anywhoo, in the fandom, I'd like to see more people being respectful of other people's opinions and recognising that very little is absolute in touhou. Also, need moar Remilia and Patchouli chumming it up, and overly protective Sakuya.

Alfred F. Jones

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Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #385 on: September 25, 2012, 05:15:11 AM »
Also, need moar Remilia and Patchouli chumming it up
Yes! They have one of my favourite friendships in the series. Would love to see more doujins explore that. I wonder what she thought when she first ran into Remilia and learned about her sister being locked in the basement (by her own will, at that), or what she was thinking when the mansion moved to Gensokyo.

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #386 on: September 25, 2012, 05:33:31 AM »
Yes! They have one of my favourite friendships in the series. Would love to see more doujins explore that. I wonder what she thought when she first ran into Remilia and learned about her sister being locked in the basement (by her own will, at that), or what she was thinking when the mansion moved to Gensokyo.

Speaking of which, is there a doujin that even explains how they met or something? I'd really like to see such thing, because I've been wondering what exactly caused their friendship. It's so mysterious~

BL2W

  • ~ SHINING FINGER ~
  • I take many forms, and this won't be my last.
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #387 on: September 25, 2012, 03:04:23 PM »
Anywhoo, in the fandom, I'd like to see more people being respectful of other people's opinions and recognising that very little is absolute in touhou.

Hooray~! I'm not the only one who believes in the power of imagination here~! :D

Now, you can follow my art studio, KyokoPro Studios, on deviantART, Facebook, and YouTube~!

Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #388 on: September 25, 2012, 03:23:48 PM »
Hooray~! I'm not the only one who believes in the power of imagination here~! :D
I honestly think some of the fun of Touhou is theorycrafting and worldbuilding; I love seeing other people's views of the characters and the setting.

BL2W

  • ~ SHINING FINGER ~
  • I take many forms, and this won't be my last.
Re: Stuff you wish to see in fandom more
« Reply #389 on: September 25, 2012, 03:33:25 PM »
Precisely~! I get the most enjoyment out of seeing others' creative ideas and speculation. After all, ZUN himself seems to consider his own collective works as doujinshi, too, so I see that as the perfect opportunity for open interpretation of the core characterization, themes and ideas that he introduces in said works~

Now, you can follow my art studio, KyokoPro Studios, on deviantART, Facebook, and YouTube~!