Stuff you wish to see in fandom more

[Hart]

Stuff I'd like to see more often in fandom?
Well, less m?mes, obviously. And less stupid nicknames for characters. I'm tired of seeing Cirno being constantly called "nineball", or utsuho "unyuuball", or Meiling "who-the-heck-is-that-girl" or Mima "she'll-be-in-the-next-one".

And also, I'd like to see more complicated plots. Quite often, in doujins, I feel like there's an unspoken "let the characters like you found them" rule. In other words, no matter what happens in the doujin, everything has to be back to normal at the end. And that annoys me, because if there's no change, then what's the point in reading the whole thing to begin with?
I am aware that a good artist is probably not a good writer (given how ZUN handed the Watatsukis' huge curbstomp battle of Touhou's main characters -and that's considering that ZUN is a good artist, but I'm derailing), but sometimes, I'd like something else than "Reimu go to the supermarket. Reimu buys an apple. OH NO, REIMU HAS NO MONEY! Reimu flees with the apple. Stuff happens. Reimu doesn't get the apple. The end." I'm also aware that most touhous are allergic to original characters, but when I read the doujin Re-Take, I usually think "damn that's hot!" and then I start thinking "why don't we have something that good? Is it because touhou isn't as LOL DEEP as Evangelion? Why does the chicken cross the road? Why so much hate toward the Watatsukis?" and then I stop thinking and  I go play Fallout and punch supermutants in the face, but that's another story and that doesn't interest you.

My point is that, in touhou fanworks, I sometimes would like to read something else than childish doujins. I'm not saying I want some kind of David Lynch/Touhou cross-over (actually, that sounds awesome), but sometimes, I'd like to read something that doesn't feel like it's been written on toilet paper while the artist was taking a crap.


And also, I'd like to have more moonboobs, because they're great.

[ShiroiMahotsukai]

This is why I really like backstory Doujins because you knwo what the situation is supposed to end up like and it's the journey their that is interesting.

[Desu_Cake]

Personally I'd like to see some delinquent Chen.

This, dear god this. Chen has the potential to have loads of varied and interesting characteristics, just like any other character, but the only things I ever see are cute, sweet, wants to be given responsibility. There's nothing wrong with those, but it'd nice to see something, anything else for a change.

And on a related note, depictions of Ran not being completely obsessed about Chen would be seriously welcome too.

[Goldom]

David Lynch/Touhou cross-over

Someone do this. Get going.

[Tengukami]

Someone do this. Get going.

If I were thinking which Lynch film would translate best into Touhou, I would have to say Lost Highway. In a nutshell: the MC is a middle-aged man who may or may not have killed his wife, who physically transforms into a much younger man while in jail, and engages with his older self in a parallel, but connected, universe. It's a film about aging and time.

With that in mind, I imagine Eirin as the MC. Only she is found and arrested by Lunarians, and her age seems to reverse drastically in custody. But what has actually happened is she separated into a parallel world, leaving behind a younger version unaware of how it got there. Through the story, the older Eirin communicates with her, engineering her escape. The younger one, upon getting freedom, is sought by the older one as a "connection point" back into the her original universe, which will mean the end of the younger one. But the younger wants to remain a conscious entity, and tries to escape. The outcome is never fully revealed or implied.

[lightdreamer]

Stuff I'd like to see more often in fandom?
Well, less m?mes, obviously. And less stupid nicknames for characters. I'm tired of seeing Cirno being constantly called "nineball", or utsuho "unyuuball", or Meiling "who-the-heck-is-that-girl" or Mima "she'll-be-in-the-next-one".

Yeah, like "moonbitches" for example.

And also, I'd like to see more complicated plots. Quite often, in doujins, I feel like there's an unspoken "let the characters like you found them" rule. In other words, no matter what happens in the doujin, everything has to be back to normal at the end. And that annoys me, because if there's no change, then what's the point in reading the whole thing to begin with?

Could you further elucidate on that please? I think that "status quo is god" rule only applies in slice-of-life doujins.

To make this post more on-topic, I'd like to see more good danmaku fangames like CtC.

[Hart]

Yeah, like "moonbitches" for example.

Each time I see that word, I want to create a machine that'll allow me to punch people over the Internet.

Could you further elucidate on that please? I think that "status quo is god" rule only applies in slice-of-life doujins.

Well, save for Imizu's comics, where there's some kind of continuity between them (same thing happens in Nounai Kanojo's works, but that's something else), in most works, what happens in a doujin is never mentioned again, as if it never existed to begin with.

[Hanzo K.]

Like it or not though you two, folks are gonna call the girls what they want to. Can't stop 'em from doing that. Freedom of speech and all that.
Hell, some folks who are fans of Cirno use the term 'Nineball' in an endearing and affectionate manner. (Ex; "Now that's the nineball we know and love.")


And on the note of the Himes/Watas, they just don't come across as likable sometimes. Bottom line.
Not because they beat the others easily, no, but simply because of how smug and arrogant they are about it.
It's a Lunarian hat, yes, that's understandable enough as it is, but they're generally regarded as having been hit especially hard with that stick.
(Even a tolerant and accepting fella like me finds them irksome to a point.)


And on a more on-topic note, there needs to be more fangames that star Rumia as the main character.

[Hart]

Like it or not though you two, folks are gonna call the girls what they want to. Can't stop 'em from doing that. Freedom of speech and all that.
Hell, some folks who are fans of Cirno use the term 'Nineball' in an endearing and affectionate manner. (Ex; "Now that's the nineball we know and love.")

I am so going to interpret that as "you're allowed to create stupid nicknames for everyone". All hail Cirno, aka Mini-Bunker.

That asides, I'd also like to play more western fangames. I hate having to switch my computer to japanese to play a fangame.

[Tengukami]

Yeah, like "moonbitches" for example.

You seriously need to drop this.

[AnonymousPondScum]

Yeah, lightdreamer. I actually sorta like the sisters (mainly for their designs) and want there to be more info about them but you're taking this a bit personally.

[ShiroiMahotsukai]

I really tink I could like those two if I saw some "Slice of Life" sfuff from the moon, they could have a really good dynamic. Even a Doujin would do.

I'd also like to see more stuff with Komachi and Eiki.

[Hart]

I really tink I could like those two if I saw some "Slice of Life" sfuff from the moon, they could have a really good dynamic. Even a Doujin would do.

This.
BisonYes.png

[Drake]

I really tink I could like those two if I saw some "Slice of Life" sfuff from the moon, they could have a really good dynamic. Even a Doujin would do.

have you ever heard of "inaba of the moon and inaba of the earth"?

Stuff I'd like to see more often in fandom?In other words, no matter what happens in the doujin, everything has to be back to normal at the end. And that annoys me, because if there's no change, then what's the point in reading the whole thing to begin with?

...So you're saying that you read stories just for the ending?

I am aware that a good artist is probably not a good writer (given how ZUN handed the Watatsukis' huge curbstomp battle of Touhou's main characters -and that's considering that ZUN is a good artist, but I'm derailing)

1) ZUN didn't draw SSiB
2) Wakatsuki's curbstomp is done on purpose in order to have the plot move around things that aren't resolved simply by beating each other up. ZUN's written a gorgeous amount on the Moon setting and Lunarians being stupidly powerful extend way beyond letting new characters beat up your favorites. On top of that, the rocket group were the bad guys. Reimu holding purity hostage was a good enough attempt to turn the tides while keeping the power balance. Not sure how you can be all "I hate it when people call them moonbitches" and then say them being overpowered and smug was handled badly. That's precisely the reason people call them moonbitches to begin with.

My point is that, in touhou fanworks, I sometimes would like to read something else than childish doujins. I'm not saying I want some kind of David Lynch/Touhou cross-over (actually, that sounds awesome), but sometimes, I'd like to read something that doesn't feel like it's been written on toilet paper while the artist was taking a crap.

I'd like to point out that there are a plethora of touhou doujins that most of you don't even know exist, simply because they aren't y'know scanned and translated. As in, most Touhou doujins are not ever going to make it outside Japan. Touhou gets a really decent amount of serious doujin works, but if you don't know the author in advance and buy it from a doujin shop or an event or something you're basically out of luck. Even then you need a translator unless you can read japanese.

That asides, I'd also like to play more western fangames. I hate having to switch my computer to japanese to play a fangame.

Could use AppLocale if you aren't willing to just leave your computer on japanese locale.

[Ikari]

I'd also like to see more stuff with Komachi and Eiki.

So would I. It seems Eiki isn't that popular, despite being completely made of awesome.

[Drake]

You mean stone?

[AnonymousPondScum]

RoboCop Eiki plz.

[ShiroiMahotsukai]

I've only heard of "Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" in passing so I'll have to read it now.

So would I. It seems Eiki isn't that popular, despite being completely made of awesome.

It is a shame, there is some good stuff out there but it's so rare and hard to find.

[Tengukami]

I've only heard of "Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" in passing so I'll have to read it now.

It is a shame, there is some good stuff out there but it's so rare and hard to find.

I hate to be that guy, but if you've only heard of IotM,IotE "in passing", I don't think you're looking hard enough for decent doujins.

[AnonymousPondScum]

...

A bugnuts crazy moon princess is fine too.

[ShiroiMahotsukai]

I hate to be that guy, but if you've only heard of IotM,IotE "in passing", I don't think you're looking hard enough for decent doujins.

I can't argue with that, I'm still in my first two months of knowing this series actually existed and I'm still learning. The Touho Wiki and Danbooru are my sources. Anywhere else you could recomend?

[Tengukami]

Without knowing Japanese (I don't), there's a number of sites you can tap, which crop up from Googling "touhou doujins scanlated", e.g., Voile at gensokyo.org, Danbooru, touhou-project.com and so forth. If you can deal with the crowd, Pooshlmer and even 4chan's /jp/ will also have decent doujin threads now and then.

[Clarste]

I can't argue with that, I'm still in my first two months of knowing this series actually existed and I'm still learning. The Touho Wiki and Danbooru are my sources. Anywhere else you could recomend?

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I'd recommend becoming familiar with the canon side materials first. If you haven't read it already, Cage in Lunatic Runagate is a nice source of all moon-related matters. If you're familiar with the Watatsuki sisters than you've probably read SSiB, but that's really only half the story, or less. And way too many people haven't read Symposium of Post-Mysticism. Although the Watatsukis are only mentioned in the included interview with ZUN.

[Tengukami]

Moon-related or not, yeah, starting with the Touhou Wiki and reading up on official sources is a good idea. ZUN's Touhou wiki article has plenty of resources.

As I think of it, I would like to see more fanworks that riff off of things ZUN wrote in official sources. Like, I dunno, "previously unreleased excerpts" from the interviews Aya conducted, showing quotes were completely taken out of context, or the interviewee went off at length about so-and-so because they foolishly thought this part was off the record, and so on.

[Hart]

have you ever heard of "inaba of the moon and inaba of the earth"?

Inaba is about the Eientei, not about the Lunar Capital.

...So you're saying that you read stories just for the ending?

I'm reading them for the plot. If there's no plot, then there's no point in reading it, save for the art, and fanworks aren't usually that great, artistically speaking (save for nitro unknown, that guy/gal/group rocks, I'm frequently masturbating to his doujin, even through they aren't translated).

1) ZUN didn't draw SSiB
2) Wakatsuki's curbstomp is done on purpose in order to have the plot move around things that aren't resolved simply by beating each other up. ZUN's written a gorgeous amount on the Moon setting and Lunarians being stupidly powerful extend way beyond letting new characters beat up your favorites. On top of that, the rocket group were the bad guys. Reimu holding purity hostage was a good enough attempt to turn the tides while keeping the power balance. Not sure how you can be all "I hate it when people call them moonbitches" and then say them being overpowered and smug was handled badly. That's precisely the reason people call them moonbitches to begin with.

1) ZUN wrote SSiB.  Aki Eda just draw it. If anything is to blame for the manga, it's Jun.
2) It's still extremely clumsy coming from ZUN, as it's basically new characters recently introduced versus the Eldest One. I know there was probably no other way to write that story, but a new character curbsstomping everyone in sight was not a good move coming from ZUN. I dunno, personally, I felt like it was more like "those new characters just kicked your favourites' character bottom up to Oblivion, art thou mad?" rather than "the lunarians are just insanely powerful and your touhous are just youkais and magicians, they can't do much against gods that existed before mankind".

I'd like to point out that there are a plethora of touhou doujins that most of you don't even know exist, simply because they aren't y'know scanned and translated. As in, most Touhou doujins are not ever going to make it outside Japan. Touhou gets a really decent amount of serious doujin works, but if you don't know the author in advance and buy it from a doujin shop or an event or something you're basically out of luck. Even then you need a translator unless you can read japanese.

In other words, I just dislike what the translator/editors are working on. No luck, then.

Could use AppLocale if you aren't willing to just leave your computer on japanese locale.

I'll google that, that sounds interesting.


And one last thing I'd like coming from the fandom: more mythological references. Apparently, Eirin is based on Omoikane's character (dunno who it is, but apparently it's smart and godlike), so I'd like to see more works about Eirin being a god, Toyosatomimi being Shoutoku, and Layla being dead.

[Clarste]

Inaba is about the Eientei, not about the Lunar Capital.

It's got a chapter or two about the Watatsukis coming to visit though.

[ShiroiMahotsukai]

Moon-related or not, yeah, starting with the Touhou Wiki and reading up on official sources is a good idea. ZUN's Touhou wiki article has plenty of resources.

As I think of it, I would like to see more fanworks that riff off of things ZUN wrote in official sources. Like, I dunno, "previously unreleased excerpts" from the interviews Aya conducted, showing quotes were completely taken out of context, or the interviewee went off at length about so-and-so because they foolishly thought this part was off the record, and so on.

I've read CoLA, The Fairy Mangas, PMiSS, SSiB and SoPM. That's all the Canon stuff I know, though likely that will have been corrected by the morning.

[Starxsword]

2) It's still extremely clumsy coming from ZUN, as it's basically new characters recently introduced versus the Eldest One. I know there was probably no other way to write that story, but a new character curbsstomping everyone in sight was not a good move coming from ZUN. I dunno, personally, I felt like it was more like "those new characters just kicked your favourites' character bottom up to Oblivion, art thou mad?" rather than "the lunarians are just insanely powerful and your touhous are just youkais and magicians, they can't do much against gods that existed before mankind".

Since when are the good guys supposed to lose? Touhou isn't meant to be dark, so the villians(Reimu, Remilia, Sakuya, and Marisa) are supposed to lose. Reimu already mentions this in the manga before they even began fighting.
While Marisa and Sakuya was beaten rather easily, neither Reimu nor Remilia was beaten easily, I don't get what more do you want? Do note, you simply cannot have them beating Yorihime, they are the bad guys here.

Just think of Reimu, Remilia, Sakuya and Marisa as the 4 horseman of apocalypse that is coming to the Lunar Capitol to mess it up. Yorihime is your resident hero who is trying to defend the city. Surely, you would not want the city to go in flames right?

What I want to see is some more back story for Yuyuko and Yukari. There was one I read that was interesting, but I think it never ended... There could also be some back story on Suika, Aya, and Yuuka. What was it like back in the day. Suika knows Aya and Yukari, so some of them have met before. So, what circumstances did they meet in? Friendly or not so friendly?

[Drake]

I'm reading them for the plot. If there's no plot, then there's no point in reading it, save for the art, and fanworks aren't usually that great, artistically speaking (save for nitro unknown, that guy/gal/group rocks, I'm frequently masturbating to his doujin, even through they aren't translated).

You can't really say you're reading them for the plot if you previously say that there's no point in reading it if everything ends up "back to normal". A story doesn't need a net change by the end in order to have a plot, and even still, going "back to normal" doesn't mean there isn't a net change.

1) ZUN wrote SSiB.  Aki Eda just draw it. If anything is to blame for the manga, it's Jun.

Your argument was that good artists probably don't write too well, and then that ZUN flubbed some of SSiB. If you weren't implying that ZUN drew SSiB -> ZUN didn't write it well then your wording confused whatever you actually meant.

2) It's still extremely clumsy coming from ZUN, as it's basically new characters recently introduced versus the Eldest One. I know there was probably no other way to write that story, but a new character curbsstomping everyone in sight was not a good move coming from ZUN. I dunno, personally, I felt like it was more like "those new characters just kicked your favourites' character bottom up to Oblivion, art thou mad?" rather than "the lunarians are just insanely powerful and your touhous are just youkais and magicians, they can't do much against gods that existed before mankind".

Well uh, that's sort of your bad for not recognizing this. Being the main character should mean nothing in terms of whether or not they're defeated, and Reimu being the Hakurei maiden in Gensokyo only reinforces the decision of having her lose outside of it. I repeat that it's also somewhat hypocritical that you wonder and rage at people calling the Wakatsukis moonbitches while expressing the same surface-level reasoning why people call them moonbitches. Do I think ZUN could have handled the particular scenario better? Sure. Do I think he could have developed the Wakatsuki sisters as a whole better? Sure. But you'll only stick to that surface-level "they beat my touhous as soon as they showed up baww" reaction as long as you're just taking everything at face value, which also makes your wish for more complicated plots a really weird thing to say.

[Ikari]

I feel like ZUN created the whole lunarian thing only to piss of fans and cause arguments.

Eirin being a god, Sakuya being a lunarian, those two lunar sisters, Kaguya's NEET-ness...

Yeah, ZUN is a troll :V