Adorable Game of Mafia (Everyone wins!)

[Affinity]

PX: Wasn't Omba a main lynch, and didn't I question him thoroughly and stuff?  What makes you think this and this isn't scumhunting, or the very least, 'not showing interest in Serela' until end of D1?  The verbosity? 

Rarrrgh!

##Vote: PX

[PX]

The first link doesn't explain how that makes him scum, while the second link shows more like you're trying to disprove his case and less trying to find out if he's scum or not.

And the vote does not impress.

[Kilgamayan]

Home now, but I think I've basically laid out the important parts of what I had typed up beforehand (and the weather was so nice as to knock my power out for several hours so I lost my writeup anyway).

Summary of Omba would-be vote if he weren't already on L-2 are a combination of the Day 1 case stuff (fluff in posts, antagonistic/disrespectful words), trying to root up the rogue cop counterclaim, and the way he avoided jumping on the Serela wagon despite Serela being his second-strongest suspect in #190. On top of the fact that his vote tied the Serela/NNR wagons and he never addressed Shadowert's #227, the fact that his switch to NNR came after pesco and HW switched to NNR makes it look like possible attempt to curry favor with generally-accepted-as-quality players by falling in line behind them.

but the one part that doesn't make sense to me is why Serela would self hammer instead of letting Omba hammer?

Why would Omba hammering have gained him any town credit after Serela dun goofed?

[Raitaki]

It seems SEN is hosting mafia again ;o In a few days I'll start to play 2 mafia games at once, in addition to possibly working at school, so I won't post as much, but I'll still keep an eye on this and try to take part. Just a heads up.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

As a heads up, I'll be on a train during most of tomorrow, meaning limited chances to post. I'll also be at my grandmother's for a few days following but should still have consistent internet.

[Shadoweh]

I don't want to provide Omba with a defense before he's had much of a chance to defend himself, but I do think the attacks on IHNN and Omba were similar. I will give an opinion on the end of day stuff laters when i have had a chance to sleep

Rai I am pretty sure you can play this game and your secret decoder puzzle game just fine. Tell us more about scum reads please.

[Raitaki]

A few days from now, not now. Now I'm going to sleip as I wait for Omba to post something that makes the probability of me voting him double digits.

[Affinity]

@PX: Didn't I say many many times that I found Omba's dragging out his Rai case too far to the point of voteparking?  Which is enough of a scummy thing?
Isn't questioning the validity and sincerity of cases the first step to scumhunting?  There are many examples of this anywhere, anyway, and I don't think you're thinking this through properly.

===

BT's later-D1 IHNN case yesterday was probably the best of its kind, and feels reasonable in hindsight given that he explained his preferences on the main wagons.  The amicable way in which he approached the people voting him seems disarming as well, making him probably the best non-Serela voter D1.
Didn't have an opinion on NNR yesterday, but his early position on the Serela wagon does give him points.  Would like to ask him: NNR, why did you rather vote Serela than Omba, despite you 'pressing' the later more?
I doubt that Serela would vote scum so early in the day, and thus IHNN gets a tentative clear for now.   Same goes with Shadoweh, whose vote was the defining vote on the wagon which everyone agreed with.

With this, well, there's HW, Kilga, Rai and PX, who I'm willing to look at today, all of them cryptic. PX D1 just feels a bit passive, asking a few alright questions here and there, taking care to talk about the main wagons, but his total abstinence from all Serela discussion is suspicious.  Goes after NNR for 'observation and waffling', while handwaving Serela for doing the same?  Something's there, hence my vote.

[Affinity]

Mafia oft runs one's
tempers amok, indignant.
Still, stay as you are.

[NekoNekoRex]

Didn't have an opinion on NNR yesterday, but his early position on the Serela wagon does give him points.  Would like to ask him: NNR, why did you rather vote Serela than Omba, despite you 'pressing' the later more?

Serela was virtually nonexistent during MidD1, so pressing her was impossible. I noted several times that voting Omba because he was more active was a fallacy I wasn't going to fall into.

[Kilgamayan]

I do think the attacks on IHNN and Omba were similar

Why? IHNN got a vote and some attempt at a case, Omba got literally less than a sentence.

[I have no name]

Next up in my list, ##Vote Omba

Now I'm going to sleip as I wait for Omba to post something that makes the probability of me voting him double digits.

What?  You're already voting him, are you saying you're waiting for him to dissuade you?

Anyway, I'll re-read the game a little later and see if that changes my opinions on anyone.

[Raitaki]

@IHNN: At the moment my stance is getting Omba lynched no matter what. If he manages to dissuade me a little then I might consider other options if at any point an Omba lynch seems nonviable (but that seems pretty unlikely considering the early L-2)

Rereading everyone from scratch to try to decide the next candidate after Omba.

[BT]

Call me a hipster
but I think this lynch is off
Post will come later

Or maybe it'll come now.

His D1 scumhunting basically followed a pattern of "assume newbies are town because -> target people attacking those newbies", which is questionable when there was no solid reason to lean town on IHNN or Rai until Serela flipped.

no

IHNN is probably town based on Serela's :effort:.

nono

Serela being on IHNN as the lynch-to-go feels scum-town.  Guess IHNN can be cleared to some degree.

nonono

Serela was an easy bus. IHNN was an easy bus. Serela's only legitimate push was on IHNN. IHNN's only legitimate push was on Serela, bar Omba. ED1 IHNN was a case of cautious scum, LD1 IHNN was Die Serela Die with Omba on the backburner. His Serela jump remains the most likely bus, what with the inconsistent read and the need to get a stance ASAP. Now there's this:

Well, that's some bad luck.

Let's see here, ##Vote: Omba for trying to out the cop D1.  No matter how I look at it, I can't see a townie motivation behind that action.  Further reasons for this vote can be found in the first half of my case!post.

Trying to out the cop as an absolute, lack of townie motivation as an absolute. This is an unnaturally strong stance, especially considering the basis is a lackluster case which has yet to address Omba's LD1 squabble with NNR.

##Vote IHNN

As for the Omba wagon--

I don't want to provide Omba with a defense before he's had much of a chance to defend himself

... aghdfaga okay

I was going to go full-on white knight mode, but I'll hold back for now. All I'll say is that the only vote on the Omba wagon I would support is HW's. Seriously.

I'd need to read more to find out if I agree with Shadoweh on Affinity, but gut answer right now is "no". If you want another wagon to rival this monstrosity in a 48hr D2 (and won't vote IHNN with me) you'd have to go into more detail. PX too. Pointing at things is nice, but I want to see how they are scummy. In detail.

Gutjerk right now is at Kilga, mostly for the vote (similar reasons to IHNN's) and unmemorable D1. Uses the word fluff a lot considering he's had a few pointless pokes at Shadoweh himself (it goes to show you if that's what I remember from him of all things), and push on Omba at the moment reads bad considering the problems I have with the wagon. Who not named Omba is scum?

[Edible]

Vote Count: quack quack quack edition

Omba (4): Raitaki, IHNN, huh what, NekoNekoRex
Affinity (1): Shadoweh
PX (1): Affinity
IHNN (1): BT

Not voting: Omba, Kilgamayan, PX


You have ~30 hours remaining.  With 10 in play, it takes 6 votes to launch.

[BT]

For the sake of being accurate: not Kilga's "vote", because he doesn't have one yet, but you know what I mean.

[I have no name]

So because I gave a reason you don't like that's scummier than, say, Raitaki's "next on the list"?

Now there's this: Trying to out the cop as an absolute, lack of townie motivation as an absolute. This is an unnaturally strong stance, especially considering the basis is a lackluster case which has yet to address Omba's LD1 squabble with NNR.

Omba explained his reasons for it, I disagree and think they're BS thought up on the spot to avoid flak.

Serela was an easy bus. IHNN was an easy bus mislynch. Serela's only legitimate push was on IHNN. IHNN's only legitimate push case was on Serela, bar Omba. ED1 IHNN was a case of cautious scum town, LD1 IHNN was Die Serela Die with Omba on the backburner. His Serela jump remains the most likely bus chance to hit scum, what with the inconsistent nonexistant read and the need to get a stance ASAP until the fakeclaim.

Funny how my impression of events is pretty much the same as yours except for alignment.

*moves BT up the list of players to re-read...after lunch

Right now I need food.
Be back in a little bit.
I want fried chicken.

[BT]

So because I gave a reason you don't like that's scummier than, say, Raitaki's "next on the list"?

I'm voting you for more than one reason.

Omba explained his reasons for it, I disagree and think they're BS thought up on the spot to avoid flak.

That's nice, but my point is that you're rather adamant about it, much like how Confirmation Bias is expected to affect your reads.

Funny how my impression of events is pretty much the same as yours except for alignment.

Stop doing this. In future games too. This is the other sort of Confirmation Bias, only that I don't think you really are town (unfortunately town are guilty of doing this too). Also, what do you mean by 'nonexistent read until the fakeclaim'?

[I have no name]

IIRC I didn't really have a read on Serela until the claim, at which point I went from "none maybe leaning town" to "scum".

I'm voting you for more than one reason.

Stop doing this. In future games too.

Pretty sure I explained my side of all of your reasons.  Stop defending myself by giving my version of events?

Confirmation Bias

Part of why you find me scum is you think Serela and I were double bussing.  Part of why I find Omba scum is I think he was defending his scumbuddy.

[BT]

Pretty sure I explained my side of all of your reasons.  Stop defending myself by giving my version of events?

Simply explaining 'your side' does nothing, because the one earns votes is because people believe 'his side' isn't the reality. A defense would be explaining why your side is dominant, not explaining your side.

Part of why you find me scum is you think Serela and I were double bussing.  Part of why I find Omba scum is I think he was defending his scumbuddy.

Are you going anywhere with this?

[BT]

EBWOP: ... since one earns votes because people believe that 'their side' isn't the reality. ...

[Kilgamayan]

BT: Third scum is most likely one of you and PX. Leaning PX due to his question about the Omba wagon coming off more as an attempt to cast doubt on the wagon than being a legitimate question (see my response in #362) and his case on Affinity containing points I disagree with (I thought Affinity was a good deal more proactive on D1 than PX seems to be giving credit for). Came out of D1 with a town read on everyone else.

[I have no name]

Third scum is most likely one of you and PX.
...
(I thought Affinity was a good deal more proactive on D1 than PX seems to be giving credit for).

I'm halfway through D1 and agreeing with this so far.  Affinity was fairly active as well- with a lot more posts than BT/PX at the point I'm at.

BT, I'm typing up a response to you as well.  I'll address the Omba/Neko LD1 then.

[I have no name]

Simply explaining 'your side' does nothing, because the one earns votes is because people believe 'his side' isn't the reality. A defense would be explaining why your side is dominant, not explaining your side.

The way you saw it, I was bussing.  The way I see it, if I were scum I would have "believed" the claim and switched to probably Omba for "scummy intent in outing a counterclaim".  But I don't know what I would have done as the other alignment because I'm not the other alignment.

Furthermore, Omba was on the backburner because I was more confident Serela would flip scum than Omba would.  When I linked "Another One Rides the bus" in response to Serela finding me and Omba scummy, I was referring to Serela [kind of] bussing Omba.

Are you going anywhere with this?

I'm pointing out that your reason for voting me is partially based off a connection to the flipped scum, like part of my reason for voting Omba.

Omba/Neko interactions mid D1 feel town/scum to me, I don't find Neko scummy, I find Omba scummy.  Neko's #151 specifically feels like a townie post with good reasons for suspecting Omba.  The LD1 interactions feel almost like a townie slapfight, but Omba seemed to be trying to make Neko slip up somehow to get people to switch off Serela.

BT case next post
PX was a huge lurker.
We should lynch Omba.

(also there was no rule about no consecutive posting today)

[Raitaki]

Now that I reread all of PX's posts in a row, I'm not getting a good impression from him. He used quite a few self-contradicting arguments. Repeatedly attacked Affinity for not commenting much about me, while all he said about me was pretty much "Raitaki's last vote is still blarhgjdg" and "Rai actually scumhunting looks better". His #188 is pretty meh, basically free shrugs for nearly all the bandwagons that time, telling Affinity to comment on me (again, for some reason), then....tossed IHNN aside because "there's other things Koromo would like to press", voted NNR for vague reasons then vanished for almost a full day? Huh?
PX's stream of posts doesn't make me very happy.

Kilga looking fine so far. So does HW. NNR's read is still mostly null, but given Pesco's reply to my suspicions against Neko's claim I'd say his claim is legit. Same for Shadoweh minus the claim.

BT doesn't look too bad. He's pretty insistent on pushing an IHNN vote, but I don't find that scummy in particular. Didn't comment a lot on the major ED1 bandwagons though (Omba/Serela/NNR), and although disagreeing with the Omba and NNR wagons he didn't say much about the cases against them. I would FoS BT if Omba (or Neko, if he happens to be lynched) flips scum.

So that leaves...IHNN and Affinity. I'll reread on those two later.

[I have no name]

Agree that NNR's #64 is out of place. At worst, it's an attempt to derail the wagon. At best, it's a weird jab (do consider that we're only on the third page).

Read "worst case". Your post was plausibly scum-motivated so I noted as much. Throwing away two votes (Omba's and PX's) to the dump with a simple comment about content (when low-to-gut(no) content votes are nothing special during ed1) is pretty handy for scum.

Early suspicion on NNR.

...And his [IHNN] latest post is OMGUS. You could get similar "vibes" from any vote on Rai at this stage. Of course, the votes are reasonable, and so is mine. Too bad "vibes" lets you get away with that, though.

Casually dismisses my vote in the same way as he said NNR was dismissing Omba?s and PX?s.

General impression is that there is a lack of scum in the building. Eagerly awaiting reading HW/Serela /Kilga once they actually show up. <_<

This could be explained by a lucky guess, as the odds aren?t too out there.  Not mentioning PX here though is a bit strange.

Case is neat, but I prefer the dude with a solid stance over the dude that blames his lack of a solid stance on meta. What in particular made you satisfied with IHNN's response?

Not seeing the Omba case so much. Continuous fluff would be a problem but so far he voiced his opinions passably at worst.

Handwaves Omba, continues pushing for me, gives Serela a temporary clear.

Vote stays on IHNN. Handwaving play as silly needs to stop.

This is a little interesting.  Ignores meta on me showing the way I play is this way, but uses Serela?s meta as a temp-clear.  What?s the difference?  Alignment.

Will elaborate on my point in #149: gut stances are throwaways and vote on Rai was waffle. Then he pleads confusion with no effort to improve, instead agreeing with cases because he admittedly couldn't make them.
Town acknowledge their faults and work to do their best regardless.
Scum acknowledge their faults and let them be known so that everyone else can do the same.

Recent cases seal the deal. Case on Serela is a restatement of Shadoweh's and case on Omba in particular is a collection and something he could have done earlier (proving my point that he wasn't trying). Recent switch to Serela is bad considering he gutted him as town in #128. Smells like jump.Vote on IHNN was a solid stance. Not ideal execution, waffle on everything else in the world, but seems like he's trying (and failing). Not sold his scummy is scum, sold on IHNN more.

NNR needs further reading. Still uninterested in Omba lynch.

I acknowledged my faults so everyone would know that I actually am trying my best regardless.  I did waffle on Rai but I don?t see the problem with that really.  I was typing the Serela case before Shadoweh posted hers >.> .  As mentioned earlier, I didn?t have time to put together a case on Omba until I did due to IRL stuff.  Passes off Serela?s actions as meta, continues to read NNR.  Retains a town read on Omba.
 

My argument is that he was (arguably still is) essentially active lurking by contributing nothing, and "that's okay because he's always like that". I'll be damned if the vote on Rai wasn't a premature jump. In fact, all his votes were easy in one way or another, and his opinions have been nonexistent / easily swayed (which is often a result of them never being authentic).

k.
I was trying to contribute, I switched to Rai due to finding him scummier at the time, my votes have been easy because I switched to people who had just done something scummy, I don?t get strong opinions really fast.

So far BT?s play has been handwave Omba and scum!Serela, discredit me and NNR.
 

Oh, that's why. I read his post as "don't wanna lynch IHNN, oh wait this post changes my mind, now I want him dead".

*finally* starts finding Serela scummy?

I'm the one that called people out for clearing people because their scumread is voting them in #123. :V Scum/Scum is actually a possibility I'm considering plenty. Both would be seen by scum as meaningful (and easy) wagons at time of voting (Serela on IHNN, IHNN on Serela). Notice that I never said I disagree with Serela's lynch; IHNN's jump could easily be a bus, also considering the inconsistency. I guess I just prefer IHNN if it happens that one of them are town.

?only to remind people he exists and continue pushing for my lynch.

Raitaki: Fair enough. I fully expect everyone to take a good look at IHNN's game today.
##Unvote
##Vote Serela (L-2)
The only things I find crooked about NNR- I already mentioned, nothing else screams at me after several rereads. Would lynch Serela over NNR, would lynch NNR over Omba.
cuts. Omba, what inconsistencies? I'm rather satisfied with how NNR explained his Raitaki vote era.

His last post of D1 FINALLY votes Serela, conveniently never having to weigh in on the cop claim.  Somewhat clears NNR only to be willing to vote him over Omba.  Discredits me again.

BT?s play through the entire game has been based on tunneling me, commenting on NNR, handwaving Serela until voting with the bandwagon and dismissing Omba.

If Omba flips scum I wouldn?t be surprised if BT is the last one.

PX re-read next.
This post is simply massive.
Who likes walls of text?

While waiting for someone else to post I re-read PX.  Didn't take very long.  Not my priority to lynch at all, a distant third, though my opinion could easily be overturned by more posts.  His arguments are hypocritical in places and by his own measures he'd be really scummy, but overall inconsistency isn't inherently scummy.  A distant third.  Right now no one else jumped out at me as "needs rope" after re-reading everything.

[Raitaki]

EBWOP forgot the haiku

Go go Zergling rush
"Spawn more Overlords", I hear
Ouch. good game no re

[NekoNekoRex]

I still exist, yes, I've been heavily analyzing Late D1

There's a few things that stick out alot, mostly Omba points that have already been addressed. Deadline Omba looked pretty much like a scumbuddy pressing Serela to DO SOMETHING and avoid the lunch. I could bring up some post #s but it's pretty much all of them pre-hammer.

Shadoweh's confirmed town theory looked weird in light of him sticking to (and clearly supporting) the Serela vote. He should explain his PoV with that.

HW seemed weird after Serela started talking about :giving up: and fakeclaims, kind of odd that didn't push him to switch but I can forgive it I guess since Serela seemed doomed at that point anyway

Kilga comes off as very townie, would not support any votes on him whatsoever
IHNN leans town as well, would not lynch

BT and PX weren't at deadline so I'll read them later

Post is a bit long
Not sure if two hundred words
Wrote haiku anyway

[Shadoweh]

Alright, I've slept, eaten been kidnapped when I started typing this four hours ago and am no longer falling over dead, let's get this show back on the road. Dissecting Serela time.

I'd frownface at Omba for attacking me over doing a random vote in RVS and saying I'm not going to be contributing to imaginary scumhunting, but then I also didn't do anything for a significant amount of time after, so I guess it eventually became a legitimate point, and it's not like he was sitting his vote on me for a long time before the point became legitimate either.

Rai is argh, but since this is his first game here, I'm not terribly surprised at such, so, as usual, leaving that for later in the game where there's more things to look at then "his posts are weird", which anyone could guess would happen since before the game started.

IHNN is posting a bunch, and it feels like he's at least trying, even if it's coming out sort of weird, so I'm not interested in him as a D1 lynch.

This is what I mean by the attacks being the same. Serela picked three random 'bad people' to have a problem with. He then basically talks himself out of being able to vote for them because he is horrible at being able to suspect town. Ilu Serela. His later additions to his Omba case are:

Huh. I reread to see what the hubbub was about Omba and most of his posts are null responses about stuff (Which isn't bad in itself, but does

Where it looks like he fell asleep mid-post and...

Every game for the past year, so. But the reason I'm quoting is because I think this is a -really- silly thing to try to paint as some kind of scummy disconnect >.>;

I like how IHNN is apparently complaining that I'm responding to questions people ask me. :T

Omba is doing something really -silly-. Not scummy, silly. This is not how he talks about someone he knows is scum. This is how you talk about some townie who is doing a really funny thing you're watching.

I guess I'm not going to wait for Omba since it doesn't look like I can afford to. I don't think Omba's actions at the end of day are as 100% bonafide scummy as everyone's making them out to be. Like I said, Serela is the scum ponymobile. I don't believe that he as scum would tie himself so much to Serela's flip, knowing that Serela was 100% no doubt about it not going to be shot in the nightphase as a cop because Serela was the red cop. It seems like he's being used as a scapegoat for everyone's rage at opposing the scumwagon.

Naturally just saying that Omba is town isn't going to do anymore. I've realized the best defense is a good offense. So who does make a good lynch based on the Serela waffle house? It seems like the little bugger was alot more careful about calling people scum for reals this time around. I am currently looking to see who he never mentioned.



Kilgamayan: blank
huh what: He doesn't mention huh what but takes time to answer his questions at least twice.
Affinity: Answers one question about why he's voting IHNN, no opinion.
BT: He doesn't make a direct opinion on him, but one of his 'points' against IHNN was his vote on BT. Here in particular:

...I just noticed Raitaki is less then an hour away from a prod :/ Considering his BT case is (For being the first to try to "derail the wagon by voting IHNN", which... I'm not sure how this is supposed to be indicative of alignment at all), and being under heavy fire, him suddenly turning towards lurking it up isn't very good. 

I'm not actually sure if this soft defense is scummy or not, but I'll be looking more into BT in a minute.
PX: blank

Who would spend over
ten hours writing one post
only Shadoweh

[Shadoweh]

Wait shit hours is two syllables right? >_>

Serela was an easy bus. IHNN was an easy bus. Serela's only legitimate push was on IHNN. IHNN's only legitimate push was on Serela, bar Omba. ED1 IHNN was a case of cautious scum, LD1 IHNN was Die Serela Die with Omba on the backburner. His Serela jump remains the most likely bus, what with the inconsistent read and the need to get a stance ASAP. Now there's this:Trying to out the cop as an absolute, lack of townie motivation as an absolute. This is an unnaturally strong stance, especially considering the basis is a lackluster case which has yet to address Omba's LD1 squabble with NNR.

This implies that Serela ever legitimately pushed anything. His vote I would describe as opportunistic, and other scum wagons aren't really opportunities. Have you considered that you're driving a huge confirmation bias bus? You were clearing Serela earlier in Day 1 because he wasn't as bad as your scumread.

Shadoweh: Case is neat, but I prefer the dude with a solid stance over the dude that blames his lack of a solid stance on meta. What in particular made you satisfied with IHNN's response?

Then outright because his case on IHNN was good and IHNN's case on him was bad.

Recent cases seal the deal. Case on Serela is a restatement of Shadoweh's and case on Omba in particular is a collection and something he could have done earlier (proving my point that he wasn't trying). Recent switch to Serela is bad considering he gutted him as town in #128. Smells like jump. Vote on IHNN was a solid stance.
Not ideal execution, waffle on everything else in the world, but seems like he's trying (and failing). Not sold his scummy is scum, sold on IHNN more.

You can't have it both ways. Your stated reason for changing to Serela was because you believed suddenly it was scum/scum bussing, when this point of view literally makes no sense from how you thought they weren't treating each other the same. I actually like your content but your viewpoints haven't changed in two days. You don't need my permission to fight a lynch you think is wrong, but you need to get your head out of the clouds. If not IHNN who else is scum?

oh good golly me
look at all those words out there
word counts don't scare me